People not squadding with me b/c they "Need EXP"?

damani

I don't get this. All the time I send a squad invite, just to have it denied and the person says "just grinding" or "just need EXP sorry" or something.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you get either half or a little more than half the EXP when fighting as a duo.........but you kill mobs twice as fast.

So going by 1/2 x 2 = 1, you should technically get the same DQ drops, EXP, etc.

I do understand that this does not always work out, some people are afraid of being scammed, and other are just too ignorant to realize they will still get the same. However, this is killing me, b/c since my guild doesn't TW and there is no point to PKing, squad based combat is all I really have to look forward to. Apparently most people would rather not work as a team and just blindly point and click at mobs all day long.......

The only reason this gets to me is when i'm doing something like a "Kill:60" and I have to basically compete with someone for the mobs, instead of working with them to get it done twice as fast, just b/c they think "they need the EXP".

End rant.

Lessie - Lost City

On the lower levels it's calculated so you level up with quests+the exp you get from mobs without having to focus on grinding.
If you squad you'll get the quest done faster but get less exp, forcing you to grind.
On the higher levels if you're using a scroll or farming dq items u dont want to squad.

Solemonie - Heavens Tear

Also some players consider *ninja invites* rude and will deny em anyway.

Twilyte - Heavens Tear

Lessie pretty much nailed it. I learned long ago that if I joined squads to get my "kill this many mobs" quests done, I would get my quests done quickly, but it would leave me behind the bell curve, so to speak, as far as over all experience gained.

This would lead to me running out of quests before I reached level once I started hitting the 40s. When I started running my quests solo, I noticed I would level faster and I didn't start running out of quests until around the 60s.

For some reason, that whole "two people kill twice as fast" thing never really works out, because I never end up with the same amount of experience if I duo when compared to soloing.

Also, many higher levels grind while using exp. scrolls and sharing exp cuts into the efficiency of the scroll. The only time it really works out is when people do AoE parties, and thats because of the quantity of mobs killed combined with the higher levels of mobs hunted generally.

As for money made, the equal loot thing is a myth. I make tons more soloing than when in a squad. If I am out hunting for certain DQ items, I will never join squad because this game hates me and it never fails that the others get the drops I was hunting for in the first place.

So yes, there are reasons why people don't want to join squads other than they just want to be rude to you. (Of course...there are rude ones out there as well, but most have other reasons)

jemima

And a lot of the time when I'm in a squad we don't in fact kill mobs twice as fast. Often mobs only die a small amount faster because the person who is asking to join can't kill the mobs on their own, so there aren't two independent people, but instead they're just standing there adding a bit of damage to my attacks, so mobs die in 3 hits instead of 4, or something.

Oddly enough I've never gotten random squad invites from hardcore players mowing through mobs. They always seem to be doing worse than me, hence they invite me.

Hildeborg - Heavens Tear

That's because the group's level range is taken into account as a diviser to XP.


If say 2 people are Lv.20, okay each gains 50% xp
If one is 19 and the other 20, there's something like a 10% penalty, so each gains only 45%
19 + 21 = 40% and so on
And that diviser is applied to XP, Spirit and drop rates.

Those are not the exact values but the penalty is nasty and around these.


So, grouping is a BAD idea due to game mechanics.

Yugoslav - Heavens Tear

if you are having a hard time on solo killing things - ask for help in the common chat, if not.. kill them solo.. the penalty is big as Hildeborg said (I realized when i grouped with me RL friend and got 5 xp from a lvl 24 monster that only I damaged and killed..)

Zoe - Heavens Tear

I only squad when its needed, like dungeons and certain bosses. I will never party in normal grinding or quests for reasons already stated.

tekyo

In a squad with random loot, the one who picks up the loot seems to get a lot less loot compared to others who do not loot at all. (to avoid greedy people who only try to loot?)

I remember a guy that got upset because he didn't get the blue armor drop taht he got from a solo kill. He left. I think most people out there have thoughts/experienced about this and avoid squads in grinding sessions.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Another factor is time to find/pull mob vs. time to kill. In many of the crowded places where you're more likely to find a group, about 50%-80% of your time is actually spent finding a mob which isn't already engaged. So pairing up only results in a 25%-10% reduction in your time spent hunting, but a 50% reduction in exp. The only group I've been in where it actually worked out pretty well was when we all split up and killed solo, but while in a squad. It got the quest done quicker, and our kill rate didn't suffer because we had 3 people finding new stuff to kill instead of just 1.

On the looting thing, I really believe it's random. But on my last FB run we had 3 3-star items and a half dozen blue items drop. I got a condensed mana potion and a soft fur. b:laugh

Yugoslav - Heavens Tear

tekyo wrote: »

In a squad with random loot, the one who picks up the loot seems to get a lot less loot compared to others who do not loot at all. (to avoid greedy people who only try to loot?)

I remember a guy that got upset because he didn't get the blue armor drop taht he got from a solo kill. He left. I think most people out there have thoughts/experienced about this and avoid squads in grinding sessions.

man.. if you are in a squad act like ona nad give to each his own.. if one needs mana pots or uses heavy armor that you cant - give the man the item or propose to sell it in exchange for something you maybe need..
Squads kick you in the butt, but sometimes is more fun to be in one than to grind solo... what point is if you MMORPG without even a little social behavior?

Coviana - Sanctuary

I discovered the problem of insufficient exp when i built my first cleric - tried to go full healer/support, and hadn't learned about the inefficiency of Blessing of the Pureheart yet, so i never got either Plume Shot or the Cyclone above Level 1... Soloing became impossible, so I always ended up needing a squad for even level-appropriate quest mobs. By about 15% into Lv32, I was out of quests, and still unable to effectively solo grind.

Faustinna - Heavens Tear

As a cleric i only join groups for bosses and dungeons. Regular quests I solo, and when grinding xp i use a scroll and solo. The people asking for squad invites want me to heal them, basically. Especially BM's. I can kill a mob before the bm can run to it, so really there's no point in teaming and sharing when I can do it faster alone, for quests and grinding that is.

bzbee

If someone makes a polite request for assistance with some mobs, I will squad them if I am able to. Other than that I prefer to only squad with friends or solo.

If anyone random squads me without a word, I will never squad with them.

If someone random spam squads me without a word b:angry

Oishasan - Sanctuary

alot of issues,
one to add:
Veno pets do not gain xp in groups, unless it's the only thing doing damage.
I'll group my veno if I'm powerleveling someone and they stay out of the way, but otherwise, never.
I can't afford to let my pets slip behind me in level.
Honestly I wish it was fixed, since pets do not take xp from the same pool as players.

TigerLily - Lost City

Its actually alot better exp if u grind in a group, since u get bonus from others ppls kills. There is a reason 60+ start grinding in 5-6 ppl parties, u get about 200% xp boost in a full party. So party = good xp.

But that requires that people can that care of their own kills, u dont hit the same mob as your partymember like some ks-ing moron since it affects xp. Kill your own mobs and decent speed, thats how grindparty works ^^

And thats also why u get sucky xp when u party ppl for quests at low lvls, many nublet insist on hitting the same mob..its like 3 ppl wacking away at the same poor eldergoth. Or they like decide to meditate after every mob. It gives bad xp and quest takes longer. Also why i rather not party random at quests lvling my lower lvl veno. Ppl are incapable of killing stuff by themselves - which is really weird because pve part in this game is not very hard. They want my pet to tank the mobs for them, they begg for all DQ drops, they just stand there and leech or meditate and... RANT RANT.

Lvling my archer i had ppl to quests with from lvl 30+ that actually knew how to kill normal quest mobs in PWI (can u belive it). But random ppl that wanna party for quests is like 9/10 times better to decline unless there is so few mobs u end up ks-ing each other to insanity like tusk town or outside adc west.

Onewingarrow - Lost City

What lily said is right, Just solo your way through low levels, and at high levels you can still solo good, but its much better in a group.

Torsay - Sanctuary

As said in one of the posts above there is an exp bonus for parties with 4+ people.
I guess same goes with loot. You can get your bag full much faster in a full group than solo.

It just might seem to be a bit hard to get full group of efficiently killing people in the crowded areas but if you are alone and people around you seem to be killing your mobs before you then try to invite them.

Luckily most of the people out there aren't like most of the people in this thread and they accept random invites. You can just say "hi" before you try to invite them.

The only ones for who is understandable to play solo are venos.

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear

Wow there is some seriois bs in this thread....

Tigerlilly just about nailed it for the first time since the first post. you actually gain way more xp in a group its not: mob xp/number of players in party!!
For example killing mobs solo i would get 352 exp, killing the same mobs with a party of 2 I got 220 exp, clear as daylight that you gain LOADS more exp.

Veno pets not getting exp in parties? I've never noticed this and my pets are always 100% exp around the time I reach 50%.

I wish GM's would properly update the party system and explain how the bonus exp work, for example how it scales up with more members. I'm sick and tired of players knocking parties because they are scared of getting slower exp or less money/drops/etc. In every mmorpg in existance that I've seen partying always gives additional exp.

Oishasan - Sanctuary

If your pet isn't doing the majority of the dps, no it would not receive any xp.

If you group with multiple Venos, only one pet in the group gets any xp (if it did the majority of the dps).

Basically, if you as a veno like to level more than 1 pet, you won't be grouping much. Not that you need to, but it still is kinda lame, and my only real gripe in a pretty solid game.

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear

why are you fighting the same mob? that defeats the whole purpose of squading in the first place?

The parties I'm in we always kill our own mobs seperate and see who can kill the mobs the fastest, end result is that there is always something dying at any given moment. Its good for exp, its fun and everyone's pets get exp.

Devlinne - Lost City

For me, when quests ask me to kill 50 and above mobs....i on training estorica.So i don't party for that reason.

Plus when i play...i PLAY. can't be bothered to talk and chit chat, joke or what not.

Avoided squads all the way.

Squading will come when i hit 80+ and settle in with my reserved guild.

Kingpiccolo - Heavens Tear

>.>

For every member in your party you gain an extra 20% of exp, so a mob giving 100 exp would give 120 and split you 60. full party would give you 200 exp and split you 33.33, now unless you are with a bunch of imcompetent noobtards there is absolutely no reason to deny a party. All those who think they lose exp by partying are complete and utter idiots, do you honestly think that soloing through a quest is going to save you grinding? What the hell do you think you are doing when you are killing these mobs? YOU ARE GRINDING ALREADY, just because there's a counter there counting the mobs you kill doesn't the grind any less of a grind, how thick can you be?

Also unless you are 20 levels apart or more, there is no exp penalty to partying, only a uneven split in proportion to the level difference, for example 2 people 10 levesl apart killing a mob giving 100 exp will still get 120 exp total, just the lower one will get 40 of exp and the higher will get 80 in proportion to their level and the expected rate of killing they would have.

Find me a single mob area in PW where you can't kill constantly in a squad of 3 and I'll eat my own hat.

Oishasan - Sanctuary

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear wrote: »

why are you fighting the same mob? that defeats the whole purpose of squading in the first place?

The parties I'm in we always kill our own mobs seperate and see who can kill the mobs the fastest, end result is that there is always something dying at any given moment. Its good for exp, its fun and everyone's pets get exp.

Not the first time I have heard this, but in over 20 years playing, this is the first MMORPG I have heard it supposedly occurs.
I believe the terms squad and group is where the difference of playstyle lies.
Groups are where I descend from..
we do dungeon crawls, etc.. We have goals to attain. They maybe grinds, but it would be AoE grinds or intense fast paced grinds, without breaks for extended periods of time. People in the group would have very distinct roles and jobs to perform.

What you are suggesting I have heard other PWI forum-speakers talk of, is not a group in my humble opinion. It's a stretch to even call it a PuG. So we will stick with squad.
A squad of folk killing their own individual mobs is the farthest thing from efficient I can think of, but yet for some strange reason it is prevalent in PWI (at least on the forums it is). It is not a normal practice in any MMO I have come across (all pay to play, but also they have all been NA/Euro design and playstyles).
I personally do not see any real difference in game design other than cultural, so the grouping variation is not forced upon or even suggested from text or quests.
I also have yet to see any type of 'squad' practicing this method in my own leveling of 5 characters ranging 40-60, and 10 pets level 54 (1 water, 2 air, 7 land).

Regardless, what I am saying about veno pet xp is only in regards to my personal definition of a true group.

Astarielle - Heavens Tear

An interesting range of views!

I am a wizzy and actually go fastest with a nice tank. If I kill solo I use Force of Will to not get hit which has a 30 sec cooldown so I don't go so fast by myself. But with a Barby or a BM I can add a gush/pyro to their target in between times.

And I get their HP buff in return for my glowy hand buff.

BearHunter - Sanctuary

Well, for me there's also another reason...if i get invite and person is nearby and he looks like crossbreeding of dante's Devil and heavily overused toilet brush... Sorry man. Maybe one day I can pull myself together, cross the prejudice and accept but not in nearest future. You did this to your face deliberately- deal with it.

Foxx - Heavens Tear

You do get an xp bonus if in a group. If I can get a full group from my guild of similar level grinding away, then thats pretty good.
The situation when random person comes up to you and wants to group for grinding mobs is quite difference. Chances are the other person is slow or lazy, and you can be almost guarenteed that you will be doing most of the killing.

As someone else already pointed out, the people who tear through the mobs dont want to group with random strangers.

Then there's the people who form a big group and then need to "afk a sec" and are gone for long periods of time.

I wish this game had a dnd function like WOW so I could just go about my business without having these hangers on messaging me.

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear

you know ive only once or twice seen anyone going "ary afk for a bit" and it was always just for 1 or 2 mins. Besides its REALLY not that hard to click the "kick" button.

Even if you are on a bonux exp scroll you will still get more exp in a squad, even if the other members dont use scrolls. Just ask the zhen groups that do this all the time.

I agree to some extent random invites can be tricky, i normally pm somone before inviting them, and since we are in the same area I observe them first.

All I'm seeing in this thread really is lame excuses, you don't need to chat or even like someone to use them simply for bonus exp.
So if you are really that anti social and hatefull towards the rest of the world just do it for the exp at least!

imnotachick

I've been in several grind parties of 4 and 5 people all killing efficiently and yes the exp increase is great,but i won't ever go with a group again because the whole drop sharing system is broken,don't care what anyone says i NEVER get anywhere near the amount of drops everyone else in the party gets,i'll occasionally get a life potion while the rest get the DQ's...maybe its something to do with being veno idk.

Anyway party=vastly more exp but drops suffer for some,most importantly me :P

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

I reject ninja invites, say hi at least before inviting someone. Also I will agree that at the lower levels where quest exp levels you up, partying will have your quests dry up quicker. I dont usually reject people otherwise, though I will admittedly say that normaly I'm invited if the other person cant do it themselves. If someone isnt holding there weight, it -is- slower exp.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Oishasan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not the first time I have heard this, but in over 20 years playing, this is the first MMORPG I have heard it supposedly occurs.
I believe the terms squad and group is where the difference of playstyle lies.
Groups are where I descend from..

A squad of folk killing their own individual mobs is the farthest thing from efficient I can think of, but yet for some strange reason it is prevalent in PWI (at least on the forums it is). It is not a normal practice in any MMO I have come across (all pay to play, but also they have all been NA/Euro design and playstyles).
I personally do not see any real difference in game design other than cultural, so the grouping variation is not forced upon or even suggested from text or quests.

I think it's an artifact of how it's possible to solo in this game, and how quickly you recover hp/mp outside of fights. In other games you can't solo at high levels, so the only way to kill / finish quests is to group. Managing an efficient fighting strategy is essential to conserving hp and mp, thus maximize your kill rate.

In PWI, the hp/mp you lose in a fight really don't matter because you can regenerate them so quickly, so you don't have to fight efficiently. Since most folks can solo mobs their level, efficient killing is not enforced that way either.

Taken together, the primary constraint on your killing speed becomes how quickly you can find stuff to kill. I don't think most people have figured out the art of sending the puller before the group has finished killing the current mob. Done correctly, the group should be getting a constant stream of things to kill (like in a zhen group), which helps to maximize exp rate. So most groups end up working best when each member is out searching for mobs and killing solo.