Why FAC and not mage?

Cosmos - Heavens Tear

Conce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@Jemina

Clerics DO more damage ur right...simple all teh debuffs they have plus there skill alone are enough to outdamage a wiz.Spark it and is gg. And yes.No reason to play mage if clerics are better. Tell that to all the people whi give me **** for dding and not choosing a mage instead.

Tell that to all.. the PvE server folks? Alright, will do, like they'll care. At all.

Nelae - Heavens Tear

full int mag and cleric have the same base dmg FIY!!!
I love FAC have one my self on my alt, but mags also get few nice skills that gives them an edge at DD/grinding then FAC.
Clerics = heal/debuff/DD
Mage = DD
And wola and edge, till you debuff and heal then do dmg a mage has already taken half of then mobs hp.
On other hand, cleric can survive much more there for they are both balanced
But again as in every post i posted, every one has his game style

trikky

I am a FAC. Here's what I experienced:


Beginning:(Lvls: 1 - 40) Super easy to grind. Fast kills between 1 - 3 hits.
Middle:(Lvls: 41- 70) Rather easy: Kill in 4 - 5 hits.
Late: (70+) Im guessing that kills would take 6 - 8 hits as I havent got to lvl 70.

Being focused in magic attacks, FAC's can level real fast at start. Downside part of this, is you have to get charms ( both HP and MP), as you have little hp and u use a lot of mp. You need to get ironheart and plumeshell always maxed to ur lvl as archers can be pretty pain in the ****. PVP-wise, u cant be pwning until ur lvl 70+. However, if u r rich and can always wear legendary equips and use max lvl of soulgems possible. U can pretty much pwn every single class. Clerics are flexible, they use both physical and magg attks and if combined with debuffs and heals. Youll b alive longer. Just carefully plan your skills, not just skill them just to try it out. Read Cayeons sticky for more details. In sanctuary, 1st ranking Pvper is a cleric so if he/she can do it, so can the rest of us. Goodluck on ur lvlling!!!

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Yep clerics out damage mages but this undine strike I hear about can that be purified or not?
I never lose to mages my level anyway and most likely never will.
As you can see I am far from level 80 but even In end game If a mage hits a wee bit higher than me, which they wont

We are a Debuff/DD/Heal class and I love that this Is the best class In pwi

Chaotiic - Lost City

UMMMMMM............

So u know int for mage types dex for archers and str for barbs/bm makes more of a difference on damage as your weapon gets better has better refines and u generally level up so an FAC and a vit build cleric will have virtually the same damage at low levels..by low levels i mean anything under 60 (Yes this is low u are a lowbie if u are here)

So the only real difference is at low levels is the skills u level first and anyone can level watever they want u dont have to be full support to level ur support skills or full attack t level ur offensive skills.

However at high level the difference IS significant u will hit harder as FAC. BUT let me explain that in temrs of PVE after 60 PVE is soo easy its ridiculous so u only stat urself for pvp. In temrs of pvp at later levels FAC jus plain suck im afraid to say. U may hit harder but u die soooooo fast its pathetic ur plume shell will save u from physical but any magic attacks will destroy u and u have virtually no hp to speak of and remember 4 /6 classes in the game deal magic. Any archer can kill a FAC with ease because if they see u first stun ticks ur heiro and 2 normal shots kill u. If u see them and put up barrier ur hp is soo low they spam metal and u still die in 2-3 hits our high crit rate means most of the time u'll be luck to be 2 shot. The only hp[e an FAC has is sleep debuff tempest CRIT yes only a crit will oneshot someone and we all know what ur crit rate is like.

For all the FAC talk about out-damaging mages the reason mages outdamage you is because their skills deal more. Its that simple. As pure mag build u both have the same mattack and u both have debuffs with mages 60% debuff being far better than ur 30% debuff so it is the skill damage that comes into account and the mages skills have a bigger damage add on and a greater variety of damaging skillz.

Also so u know theres is no point purifying undine as it has a very quick cool down and cast it would be a waste of chi for u. (1 sec channel 0.5 sec cast 1 sec cooldown)

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Clerics have:
Guardian light: Reduces all Damage by 60% Inculding magic damage
Plume shell: Will absorb 80% of physical damage
Demons spirits gift: adds 220% weapon damage
Chromatic Seal: upto 33 second sleep

All wizards have:
Undine Strike: Even so a 60% magic defence reduction chances are after casting this a cleric only need be to cast a chromatic seal along with plume shot, resulting in a mages death.
Essential Sutura: It recovers 10% mp and makes spells require no channeling but with this using 2 sparks disables them from using their stongest attacks
Ice Dragon Strike: It is only slightly stronger than Tempest yet It is slightly weaker if a cleric uses demon spirits gift

But if you want to look at the level 100 spells...
Cleric:
Elven Boon: It does damage / It can Seal and It also heals all in 1
Seal Of god: A very long seal seals for 15 seconds but makes target take 90% less damage a (good running away skill?)

Mage:
Manifest Virtue: Increases maximum MP (lol)
Elemental Invokation: Lowers targets mp/chi and does 60% of earth damage equal to casters mana

When I compare these spells I can not understand how you people can even think I wizard as a better class
I know my class that is cleric, not a mage
Because clerics are pure ownage

Shaye - Lost City

Something I noticed in the skill descriptions...
(Taken from ecatomb.)

PYROGRAM

Using the force of the Raging Flame, cast out onto the enemy a blazing pyrogram. Inflicts Fire damage equal to 100% of weapon damage plus base magic damage plus 1379.6.

PLUME SHOT

Focus your psycic energy to form sharp quill arrows to attack the enemy. Inflicts physical damage equal to your base magic attack plus 100% of weapon damage plus 1379.6.

GUSH

Force a powerful Water column to spew up from the ground causing enemies to suffer Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 1372.6. Has a 92% chance so slow enemy's speed by 40% for 8.0 seconds.

CYCLONE

Summon an immense cyclone on the enenmy, inflicting Metal damage equal to your base magic attack plus 100% of weapon damage plus 1372.6. Has a 92% chance to reduce the enemy's movement speed by 40% for 8.0 seconds.

Hurr hurr.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

One thing I realised I have shown that with Demons SPIRITS gift a cleric WILL out damage a MAGE
the mages only defence is undine strike which opponents lowers defence by 60% percent but magic shell INCREASES defence by 60% so thats counter acted HA

Chaotiic - Lost City

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

One thing I realised I have shown that with Demons SPIRITS gift a cleric WILL out damage a MAGE
the mages only defence is undine strike which opponents lowers defence by 60% percent but magic shell INCREASES defence by 60% so thats counter acted HA

Firstly Good luck getting Hell Spirit Gift secondly even if u do get it it is NOT a self buff it is a buff that can be used on EVERYONE therefore a mage can jus get their friend to cast it on them b:bye. So you know at high level 1 plume shot will NEVER kill a mage in fact 3-4 probably wont talk when u have seen and experienced hh 90 gear kthxbai

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

that's it? I lol'd that reply
obviously you are running out of thoughts because if "getting a cleric to buff a mage" is the only defence you can think of then you may aswell admit clerics own mages

perplexity

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

that's it? I lol'd that reply
obviously you are running out of thoughts because if "getting a cleric to buff a mage" is the only defence you can think of then you may aswell admit clerics own mages

Ok my **** little friend, you're clearly ignorant (and obviously stupid) if you just continually ignore what everyone has to say.

1. Comment on Demon Spirit's Gift when you hit 92 and actually have it.

2. As it has been said already, plume shot will never, ever kill a wizard in 1 shot... ever.

3. You're level 59 on a PvE server talking about experience in PvP with people 90+ on an actual PvP server? k. Clearly you've never been in a TW, and you obviously don't party with people since this reply blatantly illustrates the fact that you think you can only ever get buffs from yourself. A clerics main job is to support, and guess what that role includes dickweed, BUFFING. So any buff you have will be given to party members/guildmates anyway -.-

4. Ever wonder why 95% of your skills are support skills? Hmm... maybe it's because clerics are meant to, dare I say it, SUPPORT? **** I feel stupid just explaining this.

5. While Clerics are, generally speaking, more valuable in PW, FAC pretty much fail. Rolling FAC, you fail to do what you're supposed to do, and that's heal/support (how many times have I said this already zz..-.-). Every class has a role, and while clerics can deal nice dmg (I play one), that's not what their primary focus should be in organized pvp (aka TW, or group pk in general), period.

You can continue to dream and think that because you've pvp'd level 59 wizards on your server, clerics will be a better dps class than wizards are. Everyone else will continue to laugh at you because of how stupid you continue to make yourself look.

Forp - Heavens Tear

fac? what the hell is a fac? worthless? i think so.

I'm only level 67 but I know there's just no such thing as a fac. "Full Attack" - you would have no heals, buffs, or debuffs. "Full Support" would have no attacks or debuffs. There is only one possible build, and that's just your average cleric. Some decide to build with massive healing power(maxing things like party buffs, and uncommon skills like aoe heal and rejuvenate), or high hitting nukes(wield thunder and tempest). Seals come with the class, you raise them or you don't, doesn't matter. Revive is just to be helpful, and, if you're like anybody over level 1, you don't want to be touched with a revive under level 10.

Eventually both builds with have all skills and they can be finally called a real Cleric, though until then i guess you get silly names like "support" and "full attack". Where in the hell do people like me, maxed heals/buffs/attacks, fit in? According to Cayeon's guide, there's no such thing as a hybrid; and personally, I've never seen someone with only support skills.

Kathar - Lost City

Well as Caeyon said in his Guide FAC is more of a mindset than a build... So if you are determined to be a DD and only heal/support in clutch situations you would be a FAC...

Oh about the seals... They are very very important for group PvP/TW, esp sleep and paralyze...

Yuriko - Lost City

as much as I hate to say it I have to agree with Chaotic, plus that demon spirit's gift you guys are so happy about, that extra damage modifier is only for the first 10 seconds :<

This is not to say that I think clerics are only for support, being in RageQuit I happen to love killing/pvp it's just that FAC is not this god mode that everyone thinks it is. I'm light armor build and I hate to say it but if I get the drop on an FAC my physical debuff + plume shot is going to drop the FAC before they know what hit them 90% of the time. Let's reverse that and say the FAC gets the drop on me, they still can't 1 shot me and with fashion on, they're probably stupid enough to use plume shot and assume I'm a robe wearer so they'll still die before I do.

Yes FAC is good at 1 v 1 pvp but in tw a cleric is generally the first class targetted, full int just means you're begging to get rolled. No one really wants a dd cleric in tw anyway when they can have a mage who is far better at taking out multiple people while that FAC is stuck with a a weak aoe (siren's kiss), a semi-ok one (razor feathers), and a woo awesome but it's not going to 1 shot anyone with good gear move unless it crits [lol full int builds can crit?](tempest).

jemima

Especially when the cleric's woo awesome move does rather less damage than the mage's woo awesome moves for the same cost.

giovi

I'm a FAC and I have to sy that I still have to learn the nuke hea nuke thing.
I cant make a good use of ironhert (hope I will soon) and did all the stat for a FAC : 5(7)vit 21(21)str 135(142)mag 5 (5)dex (in brakets I heve the value with my equipment on) lvl 30 FAC cleric.
The only error I've made is to learn wellspring surge and up it till lvl 2 (it didnt cost that much and did it cos didnt know ironheart could stack).

FAC build : only thigs u have to up r str only required for equipping ur wep and armour (arcane stuff only) and mag everything u have left.
Bonusses to get : - on weapons: only magic damage increase or +x mag
-on armour ecc...: since u have already real high magic defence (+magic shell), u can put hp bonus or phisical defece bonus (hp makes u last longer from phisical or mag, phisiscal defecnce makes u last longer only from phisical, so prefere hp bonus. Ur vanguard spirit helps u with phisiscal defence from taking the phisical defence values of ur equipment so if ur equipment has some phisical def more, vanguard is going to give u much more def)
FAC r not tanks, theyr damage beasts if well build, they kill quick ,last long with ironheart, or die.
Hope this helped u

fuzzles

giovi wrote: »

Yadda yadda, etc, etc. I'm a FAC

As was said earlier.. FAC is more of a mindset than a build. If you're capable of healing well enough to keep someone alive, and are willing to do so, then you're not a FAC.

Being a FAC is like sado-masochism. It's something that you do privately, ideally in a windowless basement, ideally behind locked doors, and ideally without anyone knowing about it.

Cosmos - Heavens Tear

giovi wrote: »

theyr damage beasts if well build

*chokes on morning coffee*

Conce - Heavens Tear

Cosmos - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Tell that to all.. the PvE server folks? Alright, will do, like they'll care. At all.

Umm FYI There is sumthing called TW over in Heavens Tear.No reason for you to say that Heavens Tear isnt competitive when it comest to pvp.There is even white names around if u havent noticed, and Im one of em constantly red. -_-

Conce - Heavens Tear

fuzzles wrote: »

As was said earlier.. FAC is more of a mindset than a build. If you're capable of healing well enough to keep someone alive, and are willing to do so, then you're not a FAC.

Being a FAC is like sado-masochism. It's something that you do privately, ideally in a windowless basement, ideally behind locked doors, and ideally without anyone knowing about it.

FAC has everything and anything to do with gear than mindset. Without my gear I would never be able to deal more damage than anyone else simply because of the fact that Crits dont affect heals. Your Point? Completly dispproven.

Conce - Heavens Tear

trikky wrote: »

I am a FAC. Here's what I experienced:


Beginning:(Lvls: 1 - 40) Super easy to grind. Fast kills between 1 - 3 hits.
Middle:(Lvls: 41- 70) Rather easy: Kill in 4 - 5 hits.
Late: (70+) Im guessing that kills would take 6 - 8 hits as I havent got to lvl 70.

Being focused in magic attacks, FAC's can level real fast at start. Downside part of this, is you have to get charms ( both HP and MP), as you have little hp and u use a lot of mp. You need to get ironheart and plumeshell always maxed to ur lvl as archers can be pretty pain in the ****. PVP-wise, u cant be pwning until ur lvl 70+. However, if u r rich and can always wear legendary equips and use max lvl of soulgems possible. U can pretty much pwn every single class. Clerics are flexible, they use both physical and magg attks and if combined with debuffs and heals. Youll b alive longer. Just carefully plan your skills, not just skill them just to try it out. Read Cayeons sticky for more details. In sanctuary, 1st ranking Pvper is a cleric so if he/she can do it, so can the rest of us. Goodluck on ur lvlling!!!

Dunno what type of FAC are u, but even when i chose not to follow Cayeons guide to build my own, I still kill all level 70+ mobs with at least 4 hits mostly 3.

fuzzles

Conce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

FAC has everything and anything to do with gear than mindset. Without my gear I would never be able to deal more damage than anyone else simply because of the fact that Crits dont affect heals. Your Point? Completly dispproven.

Full attack is a style of playing.

At the later levels all the skills end up the same anyway.

Everyone seems to have a different idea of what FAC is.

I'm assuming you're a light armour cleric, Conce?

You're a light armour cleric with maxed buffs and good healing and res. You are most definitely not a FAC.

And what the hell do you mean my point is "completly [sic] dispproven [sic]"? (I know you mean completely disproved, but aside from that). How did you disprove it? You swooped in, tried to tell me I was wrong, mumbled some unclear crapola about crits, and then swooped out again, probably to eat some children. You didn't disprove anything.

In order for something to be disproved you need to present facts, an argument and draw conclusions based on facts. Telling someone that you think they're wrong doesn't count.

The only thing you proved was that you're a barely literate mong.

wenh93

Conce - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Dunno what type of FAC are u, but even when i chose not to follow Cayeons guide to build my own, I still kill all level 70+ mobs with at least 4 hits mostly 3.

3 hits my **** b:chuckle

SATII - Lost City

Lol at Conce. FAC is a mindset. If your mindset isn't purely on attacking and not healing at all, then your just pure mag that focuses on attacks rather than heals. That's why people hate FAC's because they don't heal. They don't hate pure mag builds (although majority will say stat vit for hp in TW). And lol. 3 hits on 70+ mobs. You could only 3 hit them if they were lv70 poison mobs and you sparked or critted or you don't count elemental seal as an attack.

Caiyue - Heavens Tear

I don't know where you got the idea that FACs don't heal at all. Cayeon's guide, if I remember correctly, doesn't mention refusing to heal at all, just that the main focus is on DDing instead of healing. Of course, we're not usually the primary healer; that's what the other cleric in the squad is for. But when necessary, eg. if the healer is busy healing the tank and someone else gets hit, I'm certainly not going to ignore that and continue DDing. In squads, I see FACs as the backup for the main healer; we help with healing when necessary and DD otherwise.

As for the original question of why FAC instead of Wizard, I find that the best reason is probably that they are better at soloing. Ironheart is a nice skill that way. b:pleased It's also very versatile. However, those weren't my original reason for going with FAC. I used to play Wizard, and when I moved to PWI, I wanted to try something different, yet not completely unfamiliar. Well, that and the fact that the wings look nice. b:chuckle

fuzzles

Caiyue - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't know where you got the idea that FACs don't heal at all. Cayeon's guide, if I remember correctly, doesn't mention refusing to heal at all, just that the main focus is on DDing instead of healing. Of course, we're not usually the primary healer; that's what the other cleric in the squad is for. But when necessary, eg. if the healer is busy healing the tank and someone else gets hit, I'm certainly not going to ignore that and continue DDing. In squads, I see FACs as the backup for the main healer; we help with healing when necessary and DD otherwise.

How are you not getting this... if you are capable and willing to heal then you are not a FAC

I don't know why anyone would even say that they're a FAC. Being called a FAC is an insult. We're trying to save you from yourself here.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

lol people who hate clerics because they are FAC are idiots
people who play full support clerics are tools
people who play mages are lazyy "ZZzzzz"
people who play archers are scary "Ahhh"
people who play Support/Attack cleric are devoted, patient and EPIC
I am a proud cleric that trains Buffs and Attacks even if it means not having a mount or nice wings or clothes since I spend every cent on buffs and attacks

Nelae - Heavens Tear

Ppl just hate FAC clerics.

FSC-only heals and buffs in party
FAC-attacks, heals, debuffs

And dont give me that "then you are not a FAC"

Cosmos - Heavens Tear

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lol people who hate clerics because they are FAC are idiots
people who play full support clerics are tools
people who play mages are lazyy "ZZzzzz"
people who play archers are scary "Ahhh"
people who play Support/Attack cleric are devoted, patient and EPIC
I am a proud cleric that trains Buffs and Attacks even if it means not having a mount or nice wings or clothes since I spend every cent on buffs and attacks

You talk so much ******** it's unbelievable. You trully are clueless about this game.

Ppl just hate FAC clerics.

FSC-only heals and buffs in party
FAC-attacks, heals, debuffs

And dont give me that "then you are not a FAC"

Also a load of rubbish. A Cleric who heals, debuffs and attacks on occasion is NOT a "Full-Attack Cleric". They're just a plain and simple Cleric doing what they SHOULD be doing in mini-boss/boss fights. A Clerics job is to make sure the team are ok, then when Ironheart has stacked up nicely on the tank to target the boss and unload a couple of debuffs and maybe a Wield Thunder/another attack and then get back to Ironhearting.

Do this right and the tanks charm won't even tick once and you'll have been far more useful than a Cleric who just healed or a Cleric who just attacked. Fullattack I mean lolololol

Anyone who can't manage all that and think it's "too hard" or "too much work" shouldn't be playing Cleric.

SATII - Lost City

Cosmos - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also a load of rubbish. A Cleric who heals, debuffs and attacks on occasion is NOT a "Full-Attack Cleric". They're just a plain and simple Cleric doing what they SHOULD be doing in mini-boss/boss fights. A Clerics job is to make sure the team are ok, then when Ironheart has stacked up nicely on the tank to target the boss and unload a couple of debuffs and maybe a Wield Thunder/another attack and then get back to Ironhearting.

Do this right and the tanks charm won't even tick once and you'll have been far more useful than a Cleric who just healed or a Cleric who just attacked. Fullattack I mean lolololol

Anyone who can't manage all that and think it's "too hard" or "too much work" shouldn't be playing Cleric.

First paragraph = truth. If your doing anything other than just attacking, then your not full attack. An occasional heal in a tight situation, ok, but if your focused on healing first, attacking second, then your just a cleric.

Nothing wrong with full attack clerics, I admit I used to be one, but as levels progress it gets impossible to continue to be a full attack cleric. All you can strive to do is be a cleric that skills attacks more than normal.