Pure fox veno - What stats?

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary

I have a question on the pure fox veno's build, and couldn't really find a answer in the stickies.
I'm mostly playing my barb character, but I would like to create a secondary one. I saw some fox build veno's and would like to create one. But how should I attribute my stat points? In the threads I've read, most players are contradicting eachother. Some say "go heavy armor", others say "never use heavy armor" and so on.

With my own logic I came to 2 possibilities (assuming that since foxform requires magic weapons, mag points will determine the damage. Don't know wether that's correct or not).
1 - Have a tank pet, and deal damage myself. This would require at least 3 mag a lvl for the latest weapons. In this case, I guess I should go for something like 7 mag, 2 vit 1 str every 2 lvl and wear arcane gear.
2 - Have a more offensive pet, and tank myself. This would require heavy armor for maximum defence. So the stat distribution would be around 6 str, 1 dex and 2 mag every 2 lvl. In this case I would either use low grade magic weapons, or go bearhanded.

I would say that the 1st option sounds best to me, but could someone enlighten me on this question.

Yourmom - Lost City

Very few people do the pure fox thing. I don't know a whole lot about it, but here's what I do know about regular heavy veno.

You wear the heavy armor for your level, so that means match those str/dex reqs.
You usually wear a molder magic weapon way below your level, your damage is going to suck.

Getting the molder magic weapon means you need to make some money usually, or get lucky in an fb.

Start with the mold mage sword from fb19, use that for a long time. Next weapon is the molder pataka from doing DQ. I think its around level 53?

For a pet, the best choice that I've seen is to stick with the level 2 scorpion that you get very early in the game, and use that forever (unless you want a phoenix or herc).

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary

Thanks for the quick reply. Even if you're not an expert of foxform veno's, I guess you still know a lot more about it, and veno's in general, than me. I'll just have to hope that a fox veno reads this post.

In case you'll revisit this thread, jhust one question: Am I right when I asume that the mag points determine the damage dealt in foxform (for the normal close combat attacks)?

Just_cool - Lost City

i'd say second option, cause after all, that means fox-from build (heavy)
about the pet, don't get a too fragile one, just in case, it might deal more dmg than u do and u'll have to heal it and u know what your healing power will be...
no, mag points have nothing to do with your phy dmg

senovit

Mag points for weapon. Str to determine damage. The reason why not many people opt for this build is because, frankly, it's pretty gimped. Low damage, low hp, low healing only thing you'll really be good for is a support wf in TW with debuffing/surviving.

I'd say option 2. Melee'ing in arcane armor isn't really a good idea, it's something I tried out when I first started, and eventually found too poor and switched to light armor.

Don't worry about pets, as you'll want to grab a golem regardless. It is both a tank and a high attack pet. If you're focused on pk'ing, a scorpion may be ok, but in PvE it'll fail since not only will it have low defenses, your heal will also be much lower than a mage veno's.

Stat build is something you're going to have to work out yourself with what weapons you want.. since you can't exactly stay current in level with your equipment you'll have to target specific molders like Yourmom said and aim for those stats. I'd recommend keeping up in level with your heavy armor though.

nihon

you might as well read http://forum.perfectworld.com.my/viewtopic.php?t=5657 which contains tons of battle fox knowledge and opinions.

i have recently started a veno in foxform, now level18. got about the same amount of stat points in str and mag (to wear the best weapon for my level and a decent heavy armor too). a few points went into dex, none into vit.

from what i can tell so far:

dmg per time is really nice, i sometimes feel like faster leveling than my old pure int caster veno because of the fast attack speed with normal attack. my pet is the lvl2 scorpion, an excellent companion. since it deals more dmg than my normal attack, it is the one to tank. healing the pet goes pretty fast as well, plus i've not had to take a mana pot once. since i often use the normal attack, chi fills up quickly. thus i frequently use fox wallop which provides great damage for its level.

now for the big con:

without my pet i can hardly stand up against and kill one monster without using heal pots. fighting two at the same time is _absolutely_ impossible. well, quite similar to a mage veno without his pet ... execpt i consider myself a melee character who chose to wear heavy armor not because of its visual appearance but because i wanted to at least be able to tank physical mobs. regarding this point, the build is a total disappointment (and i doubt this will change lateron).

if you want to make your fox the fastest leveler, taking annoying deaths every now and then due to low life into account, the "int for weapon, str and dex for armor"-concept is probably right for you.

if not (like me, who is after playing a 5 vit mage fox and a 5 vit priest to high lvl, really annoyed of how fast they can die), you might try "str & dex for heavy armor, rest into vita", like ill do if the current fox keeps getting on my nerves this way. ill then have to get along with my skill's damage only and practically no bonus from melee mastery (normal attack will deal hardly any damage) plus a low mana pool and weaker pet healing.

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary

Thanks everybody! I guess that all that's left to do, is giving it a try b:victory

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

Danni - Heavens Tear

I'd recommend just getting vit from your equipment and throwing hp shards wherever possible.

The problems with not being able to handle a fight 1 on 1 will go away. I can't say for sure when since I reset into this build but I can handle a 1 on 1 fight with my pet on something else easily now. Probably once you get melee mastery to a decent level for damage, leech for additional damage and healing (only damage skill that I'm using for now), and fox form up to a decent level for defense and accuracy.

As far as build I'd agree with the armor for your level, legendary/TT magic wep several levels down. Though after mirage (fb19 drops mold) you don't necessarily have to wait until the lvl 60 pataka (assuming that's the one you were talking about). I used order of the stars (lvl 30) until just recently when I switched to ancient arbor.

chickenwingling

dunno I would suggest like a hybrid mix - wear heavy armor that is 10 or 20 levels below you (match str/dex) and pump rest into magic. Carry 2 sets of armors (legs/top is the most imp) - only those two pieces until I get an expansion. Then bind them and it's as simple as a "click" "click" and you can change both armors around.

Also this way your magic dmg while your pet tanks is awesome and you can heal your pet well too - BTW I use a magic sword.

But just an opinion here nothing set in rock

fuzzles

If you're not spending real money, or have excellent money management skills (be honest now), I would advise you to slowly step away from the battlefox build, keep your hands where I can see them, and just make a normal veno.

If you have your heart set on it though, there's a fantastically lovely budget option. Beware though, your pet heal will blow royal chunks.

Option 1: "el cheapo": Put nothing in int, and balance out your str, agi and con as you see fit. Use the best heavy armour of your level, and here's the zinger.. use the quest reward weapon that you get at level 14 or whatever it is. It doesn't need any int to use. This build won't have as good damage as some of the pricier ones, but earlier on, it'll do a lot better.

Option 2: "quotation marks": Use the fb19, or the fb29 gold magic sword. The fb19 one needs 66 int to use, forget how much the fb29 one needs. It'll have better damage than the el cheapo option, but costs more... will be quite viable later on though.

Option 3: "dunno": This is for the long run.. either use the fb69 molder weap, and best possible armour, or use the best possible weap and stick with TT70 armour. Both of these are pretty awesome builds, but neither is all that cheap, and you won't get it until level 80ish, or 90ish if you're on a tight budget.

Option 4: "The flying canoodler": Once you hit level 90, use the best armour and the best weapon. Use a whole lot of stat gear to get enough abilities to do both.

Although admittedly, option 3 and 4 are quite easily the best, neither is exactly what you're looking for. You'll spend most of your time in human form in 3 and 4.

Basically, for pure fox form, options 1 and 2 are what there is.

senovit

The fb29 one should need 90 int to use iirc .

Danni - Heavens Tear

fuzzles wrote: »

"The flying canoodler"

Name alone is enough to make me want to do that.

haku

From what I see of the foxform's skills and the veno's stats, I think that the foxform veno was made with the intention of being the "debuffer" of the game. Of the debuffer types I've seen on other mmorpgs, they usually are as squishy as the mage or archer classes, but can be melee or magic or ranged physical. They depend a lot on their defuffs in PVP and PVE, and so is not a type to whack opponents/nuke opponents until dead, but the type that requires a lot of skill and attention from the player. In PVE the debuffer is usually a hard class to play. They are not damage-dealers, they use their debuffs to cripple mobs and slowly torture mobs to death. They are usually a support class and/or PVP class.

Not sure how the foxform veno fits into this mmorpg archetype in practice since I never played one :P. But I've never seen a pet-using debuffer before. It sounds very interesting and I think it'd be fun to try out sometime if I have the time.

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary

haku wrote: »

Not sure how the foxform veno fits into this mmorpg archetype in practice since I never played one :P. But I've never seen a pet-using debuffer before. It sounds very interesting and I think it'd be fun to try out sometime if I have the time.

That's exactly what I thought. The fox skills are really unique in the game, and I'm really curious how it will turn out in dungeons and against bosses. My barb (sorry to say this on the veno forum, but that's still my favorite class) is slowly running out of quests, and I'm not always in the mood to just grind, or to be waiting to find people willing to party.

For now I stick with a 5 str, 1 dex and 4 mag every 2 lvls build, so I can wear the latest heavy armor. My pet is a Tauroc angler with bash and pierce. That last skill is really made for foxbuild veno's b:victory. On top of that, it's stats are pretty good; nice attackrate, good hp/regeneration and phys def and a decent attack/accuracy. The only downside is its mag def. In another thread, someone gave the advice to get a snow hare since it will erase that downside.
As for my own attack, I must say it's rather good (low, but high attackrate and good accuracy). At lvl 15 I tried to solo a lvl 15 viper, and killed it without any pots. I must admit that I'm a bit surprised about the order of skills I can learn. The first one increases channeling time, but until lvl 19, there are hardly any mobs that actually use magic attacks. The thing I really have to get used to, is my hp regeneration being really slow. I guess that's inevitable when you play a barb next to another class b:laugh

Solandri - Heavens Tear

How does a snow hare help with m.def?

If hp regen is a problem, make life powder. Takes 15 nectar and 10 golden herb for 5 life powders. Each gives you 50 hp/sec regen for 10 minutes.

Keep up the reports. I'm curious how well things will work at later levels when you get the hp/mp swap, and hp and mp restore skills. I really did not like the mage build veno. I'm running a light build right now, but have been thinking of switching it to a heavy/arcane hybrid.

Silvia_Xenth - Lost City

okey this thread is awesome ill try 2 help with my own build maybe some players will like it maybe not. at 1 lv i go 3mag and 2Vit at 2 lv i go 3vit and 2 Mag and when i need i put some str for requiment as i have experienced any close comabt player need a lot off Hp or become a squishy and that is not how i like it they build is quite easy what i want is a tanker off sort and a veno without Mag is no veno i wana play cos they require lots off mana for there skill as for being robe user i gave it tons off hp as for gems i will give it Hp gems later on about its low physic well foxes have bramble guard and hood let they hit me close combat they kill themself as for mages they wont do any real damage at me cos off robe and i will debuff iff why the way any veno guldless out loking for a guild join LoneVenos we will have fun together come join the funb:laugh

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Keep up the reports. I'm curious how well things will work at later levels when you get the hp/mp swap, and hp and mp restore skills.

Ok, I'll try to do that b:victory However, I can't say how fast I'll be lvling, since I don't play regularly and I also have my barb. But I promise to give a report after fb19, and when I learn/discover nice skills and tactics, so just keep an eye on the veno forum b:victory
To reply to your other comments:
- for the snow hare; in another thread on the heavy veno I said that I liked my Tauroc for it's pierce skill, but that I didn't know what it would do later on since its mag def is pretty low. A veno their replied : "You might want to catch a snow hare at lv20 for the same reason. It starts with pierce. It also has decent magic defense and boost which should help with healing. I think the tabby has pierce too... but it's alot harder to get than a bunny." So that's why I will be looking for a snow hare, just to see how that will turn out.
- for the hp regeneration thing; Of course I thought of life powder. b:laugh But since you also have a barb yourself, you must agree that any other class' regeneration would seem really slow. (I guess a mag build mage or veno creating a barb would say the same about mp.) I compared the regeneration time (in meditation), and the time my veno recovers 10 hp, my barb (pure tank build) would have recoverd 1000 hp!!!
- And a question to finish with; Why didn't you like the mage type veno? Myself, I'm just not into ranged-only combat, so that's why I prefer the foxform veno.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »

- for the hp regeneration thing; Of course I thought of life powder. b:laugh But since you also have a barb yourself, you must agree that any other class' regeneration would seem really slow. (I guess a mag build mage or veno creating a barb would say the same about mp.) I compared the regeneration time (in meditation), and the time my veno recovers 10 hp, my barb (pure tank build) would have recoverd 1000 hp!!!

Yeah, that's why I mentioned soul transfusion (the hp/mp swap skill). Right now I use it on my veno primarily to top off my mp bar when grinding. Grind until mp is at about 40%, use nature's grace to pop that up to 66%, swap hp/mp, use metabolic boost to pop up hp from 66% to 92%. Then while I grind the hp top out from natural regen.

It seems with a fox build, you could kinda do this in reverse. Finish a fight with low hp, but high mp. Use a cheap mana potion to top it off, use soul transfusion to swap the two, now you have full hp and are rapidly regenerating mp. Or so the theory goes. I was curious how well it worked in practice.

- And a question to finish with; Why didn't you like the mage type veno? Myself, I'm just not into ranged-only combat, so that's why I prefer the foxform veno.

For some reason I don't really notice when my character is being attacked. Maybe I need an attachment to inflict real pain when I'm being hit. b:laugh

The mage build had so little p.def that I kept dying before I even realized I was being hit. I switched to the light armor build so I could survive a little longer, and it's working pretty well. I'm curious about the heavy build since it seems to offer a little more flexibility than the light.

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary

I'll tell you for the soul transfusion theory when I reach lvl 29 (might take some time, but I won't forget to post :P) I'm not sure wether I can use it in foxform or not. I guess it will be since it's in the same collumn of the skilltree as the pet healing, wich can be used in both forms. However, I'm afraid metabolic boost can only be cast as in humanoide form.
I'll just have to wait and find out.

Danni - Heavens Tear

To address the hp/mp question as a fox form you'll want to get leech, it recovers more hp than cost in mp, around double more or less, with an 80% success rate of stealing hp and soul transfusion. Just leech when needed and switch your filled hp bar with mp. Metabolic boost and nature's grace are also kind of nice to have around for when you need a jump but basically with leech and soul transfusion the only real limit on how long you can fight will be how long are you willing and able to stay.

(basically difference between this and previous strategy mentioned is you can stay in fox form, and you recover while fighting, so it saves time in two areas)

and for hp I'd just say go with citrine shards, unless you want to stay pretty far back on weapons you've already got 2 main stats to focus on with dex being secondary

fuzzles

For leveling purposes it'll most likely be easier to go pure int all the way to 70 or so, and then just restat to pure fox. You really won't waste a whole lot in the way of skills, seeing as you can get by with only envenom parasite and pet heal.

Tawarwaith - Sanctuary

Danni - Heavens Tear wrote: »

for hp I'd just say go with citrine shards, unless you want to stay pretty far back on weapons you've already got 2 main stats to focus on with dex being secondary

I suppose you're right. Right now, hp isn't a real problem since I have my pet, and even without the pet I can still solo a mob of my own lvl. I also keep chaos powder, etc. in my inventory. But for now, I prefer having my pet suffer the damage since I can heal without spending my resources. When looking at the skill tree the soul switch can be learned 10 lvls before the leech skill.

I must say that the fear of hp insufficience is slowly disappearing. The skills are pretty well balanced for the foxform. I'll soon be able to learn the mist skill that reduces accuracy. This should also help conserving my hp.
On top of that, I've a huge advantage with a lvl37 barb. My petbag is already at 4 slots, and for the lvl 27-37 I'll have some 3* gear granting me over 5 additionnal vit points.

I still appreciate all help, tips and ideas people are giving me on this thread.
Thanks everybody b:victory

gunblaster1992

my recommendation:
i have a veno and wokring on a heavy build
i dont have a system of this much mag or str every lvl etc

but wat works great is a build using lower lvl armor
because of the fox skill you will make up for it
also add gems to increase ur pdef

becuz ur not using that much str u can get a decent weapon and can use mage skill

with this, u can break armor for heavy armor user and put on arcane for mage and attack physically it works great for me.

Silvia_Xenth - Lost City

wow so u are basic nothing neither fox or mage what a shame my fox build would kick ur **** in either form u chose 2 play as lol but hey its ur build and ur toon damn 2 lv and i am lv 50 lol lol ViVa the Foxes b:kiss

saidje

Silvia_Xenth - Lost City wrote: »

wow so u are basic nothing neither fox or mage what a shame my fox build would kick ur **** in either form u chose 2 play as lol but hey its ur build and ur toon damn 2 lv and i am lv 50 lol lol ViVa the Foxes b:kiss

Not everybody reading this is interested in a PvP build.

Who cares who's **** you would kick? Big whoop-de-do.

This is a discussion about builds and I sure wish there were more PvE discussion about builds.

I hope this discussion continues as I am interested in a pure fox form PvE build.

Saidje

saidje

fuzzles wrote: »

For leveling purposes it'll most likely be easier to go pure int all the way to 70 or so, and then just restat to pure fox. You really won't waste a whole lot in the way of skills, seeing as you can get by with only envenom parasite and pet heal.

I'm wondering if this isn't the way I'll go - at least to level 50 or so.

While it's interesting to melee with the fox form, it's a bit boring and slow.

And isn't the equipment a bit on the expensive side for heavy armor and swords?

Later on I'll be making enough coin to reset and get the better armors.

Or is this just wishful thinking?

I wish resetting wasn't a Cash Shop thing so I could reset the Int veno I have now and see, not like it, go back.

Saidje

Mua - Lost City

Silvia_Xenth - Lost City wrote: »

wow so u are basic nothing neither fox or mage what a shame my fox build would kick ur **** in either form u chose 2 play as lol but hey its ur build and ur toon damn 2 lv and i am lv 50 lol lol ViVa the Foxes b:kiss

Real PVP begins at level 60, your char would get killed in seconds by any decent player, WF or otherwise.

About the thread, you really shouldn't use Pure fox form for PVE. Unless you seriously dont care about levelling speed/only want to have fun, it makes so much more sense to just get a golem and nuke everything. If not for PVPing, I wouldn't even have gone light armour.

If you guys are really interested in fox form for PVE, you can try making an alt to experiment with, as it doesn't take long to hit level 20-30.

mentallaxative

Hi all,

I started playing as a venomancer a couple of days ago and I decided to try a fox form build using light armor--even after reading numerous posts about a mage build being more viable. I figured that I would still be quite fragile, so I intend to send my golem in first and then jump in afterwards to melee. Unfortunately the idea doesn't work so well with multiple aggro. The mage build is safer, uses less potions and has less repair costs. I feel rather silly now for trying it, as now I plan to ditch fox form altogether and train up the left side of the skill tree. What a waste of spirit/gold. b:sad

Still, I have to say that playing in fox form is actually quite fun.

Sigr - Heavens Tear

mentallaxative wrote: »

Hi all,

I started playing as a venomancer a couple of days ago and I decided to try a fox form build using light armor--even after reading numerous posts about a mage build being more viable. I figured that I would still be quite fragile, so I intend to send my golem in first and then jump in afterwards to melee. Unfortunately the idea doesn't work so well with multiple aggro. The mage build is safer, uses less potions and has less repair costs. I feel rather silly now for trying it, as now I plan to ditch fox form altogether and train up the left side of the skill tree. What a waste of spirit/gold. b:sad

Still, I have to say that playing in fox form is actually quite fun.

You have to learn to use your pet to pick up additional mobs that aggro, and it helps to learn to pull mobs so you don't get those adds to begin with.

Xchandra - Heavens Tear

Mua - Lost City wrote: »

Real PVP begins at level 60, your char would get killed in seconds by any decent player, WF or otherwise.

About the thread, you really shouldn't use Pure fox form for PVE. Unless you seriously dont care about levelling speed/only want to have fun, it makes so much more sense to just get a golem and nuke everything. If not for PVPing, I wouldn't even have gone light armour.

If you guys are really interested in fox form for PVE, you can try making an alt to experiment with, as it doesn't take long to hit level 20-30.

bleh a fox build done right lvls just as fast if not faster than a caster build. ive been doing it and now im lvl 47, i kill mobs just as fast as caster venos, and i actually can take a few mobs on at a time and no need to use pots. i dont have to run if a mob spawns on me like all the casters have to. i dont die in 3 hits. Melee mobs are a joke. as for caster mobs, i just don on some arcane gear and tank them also.

Please do not assume a fox build = slow lvling because it doesnt do huge numbers like the caster builds. in terms of dot (damage over time) were about the same. By the time you cast 2 spells we did 1 skill and hit 4 times.

Mua - Lost City

Xchandra - Heavens Tear wrote: »

bleh a fox build done right lvls just as fast if not faster than a caster build. ive been doing it and now im lvl 47, i kill mobs just as fast as caster venos, and i actually can take a few mobs on at a time and no need to use pots. i dont have to run if a mob spawns on me like all the casters have to. i dont die in 3 hits. Melee mobs are a joke. as for caster mobs, i just don on some arcane gear and tank them also.

Please do not assume a fox build = slow lvling because it doesnt do huge numbers like the caster builds. in terms of dot (damage over time) were about the same. By the time you cast 2 spells we did 1 skill and hit 4 times.

A caster veno can make their pet take on many more mobs and AOE them with heals thrown in here and there, no pots required. They don't even die in 3 hits, they can easily get their pet to switch aggro in time, although their hiero may tick. You should try just picking a spot, grabbing all the nearest mobs with a hercules or golem and then destroying them all in seconds. Fox form provides one AOE skill with a lame side-effect and it requires two sparks, I would be interested in seeing a fox veno take on 10-20 mobs and kill them all within that time. b:cute

Still, everyone has their own preferences! It's up to the new players to decide which they like the sound of.