Class Value

Volluto - Lost City

To clarify the tension in regards to the class value in PWI, it is as follows:

Clerics > Barb/BM > Wizard/Archer > Veno

Of course there might be a slight variance due to certain circumstances as for a quest/hh/tw/pvp scenarios, but in general that's what each class is valued at.

What do you guys think, this a nay or yay? b:question

Jrudora - Lost City

I feel bad for saying it but, I find venos in parties a lil more useful than wizards =( and I'm a wizard.
Although I wished Wizards were more useful, Veno's luring capabilities are too awesome to overlook.

Rea - Heavens Tear

Venos are more useful in paties than wizards. They can lure.

Besides, in TT (lvl 60+), the damage of the veno's pets isn't reduced.

Monarch - Lost City

I'd put veno's over wizards and archers, if we are talking for fb's and TT and such.

Zenpachi - Heavens Tear

Yeah, Venos are possibly the best class in the game as they have decent value in a group, and are arguably the best soloers - which really means they become more and more useful the smaller the group gets. Plus, as has been mentioned, they are excellent lurers, which should give them a guaranteed spot in a full-size group.

Kaiyae - Lost City

venos are awesome in FBs, and best soloer at lower lvls. but not needed as much later on in xp parties, especially AOEs.

Cosmos - Heavens Tear

Cleric -> Barb -> Veno -> Archer -> BM -> Wizard, IMO. It's a toss-up between BM and Wiz for me as the Wiz has a useful spot in AoE parties.

Celestyna - Heavens Tear

Cosmos - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Cleric -> Barb -> Veno -> Archer -> BM -> Wizard, IMO. It's a toss-up between BM and Wiz for me as the Wiz has a useful spot in AoE parties.

Cleric/Barb > Veno > Archer > Wizard > BM
with my barb i have solo'ed bosses, or done bosses with no cleric so i am not sure which one id rank higher (so they tied lol)
Humans in general seem to have it the hardest. hardest jump quest, hardest fb19, hardest to get a squad b:surrender

vagrant0

From what I've seen, the main reason why Veno tends to get overlooked by groups is because groups only end up needing one for pulling, unlike most other classes, where doubling does not diminish their importance in the group. Multiple clerics, archers, wizards, and BMs mean more damage/healing, which makes life easier for all. An extra Veno can still do decent damage, but the preception is that Venos are only good for pulling. The fact that Veno is a more popular class than some, only makes it harder for a Veno to find groups later. Unlike every other class, they do not have an important, unique role in zhen parties, so cannot usually join these. As their PK ability is limited, several factions have stopped inviting Venos because they are often seen as dead weight in TW. Then there is the whole "pet envy" thing which is reason enough to dislike Venos.

There is also the factor of bad Veno's in groups, reinforcing these feelings. Often at low levels, you see Venomancers who do not know how to pull, how to use their pets to grab agro from ads, how to cancel a pet attack, or even what skills to use to kill things. Some Venos even take to the practice of using freshly tamed pets, rather than those leveled from below 20, which can cut down on how much damage their pets can do considderably. A level 60 golem, leveled from 18 (or whatever) does more than 1k a hit on same leveled things. A freshly tamed pet only does 200 or so per hit. When grinding, this doesn't make much impact, but when it comes to bosses or long fights, that damage difference is quite significant. But really, it's all about perception, and without any sort of damage counter to show how much damage each person in the group is doing, most wouldn't be aware of how much damage a good Veno and pet can do.

Barbarians are also only good 1 per group, but there tends to be far fewer of those at higher level.

If anyone gets the short end of the stick with groups, fbs, or factions, it's archers. They are seen as just DD, so can be interchangable with BMs or Wizards in most situations.

ll00

you guys have no idea on how useful a fox is at fighting boss. Ami damage will cut down boss time by a lot. Boss take 20% more damage from everyone is like another person in party right there. Pet also does considerable damage to boss making the veno very useful in boss fight that will take long. Other skill in fox mode can reduce acc of boss which help in melee boss.

Zress - Lost City

vagrant0 wrote: »

From what I've seen, the main reason why Veno tends to get overlooked by groups is because groups only end up needing one for pulling, unlike most other classes, where doubling does not diminish their importance in the group. Multiple clerics, archers, wizards, and BMs mean more damage/healing, which makes life easier for all. An extra Veno can still do decent damage, but the preception is that Venos are only good for pulling. The fact that Veno is a more popular class than some, only makes it harder for a Veno to find groups later. Unlike every other class, they do not have an important, unique role in zhen parties, so cannot usually join these. As their PK ability is limited, several factions have stopped inviting Venos because they are often seen as dead weight in TW. Then there is the whole "pet envy" thing which is reason enough to dislike Venos.

There is also the factor of bad Veno's in groups, reinforcing these feelings. Often at low levels, you see Venomancers who do not know how to pull, how to use their pets to grab agro from ads, how to cancel a pet attack, or even what skills to use to kill things. Some Venos even take to the practice of using freshly tamed pets, rather than those leveled from below 20, which can cut down on how much damage their pets can do considderably. A level 60 golem, leveled from 18 (or whatever) does more than 1k a hit on same leveled things. A freshly tamed pet only does 200 or so per hit. When grinding, this doesn't make much impact, but when it comes to bosses or long fights, that damage difference is quite significant. But really, it's all about perception, and without any sort of damage counter to show how much damage each person in the group is doing, most wouldn't be aware of how much damage a good Veno and pet can do.
.

I have seen these Veno (WF) too dear, and we do try to teach them proper ways. As far as the pet level, there is a simple food you can purchase for the pet and feed it to them to raise their loyalty level, making them full strength or 110%+ on their damage. You buy it from the pet trainers. A FYI.

But you are correct on how some do view Veno's, yet I have also found a good archer, with pushback and stun even in FB's is an effective crowd control as well, if the player has spec that way. I work with several good archers in this cpaactiya nd handled many a bad pull with pet and stun abilities.

Cosmos - Heavens Tear

I have to say - Yes, many hate Venos for one reason or another, but many of us love them.

The one thing that annoys me most about them is they seem to act like they have no control over their pet when I know for a fact they do, having a lowly level 33 Veno is enough to show me that. Many Venos are Ksers. I know most are not, but many, many are and will never admit to it or think up some lame excuse such as "Lol sorry I couldn't pull my pet out". Yeah, right.

But yeah, many might have a misconception about Venos, but they also have the misconception everyone hates them. A skilled Veno is as valuable to keeping the team alive as a Cleric.

Rosewhite - Sanctuary

I have to say, I love being a veno, however what I find is that generally people assume that all of us are either Ksers or just don't know what we are doing. I've learned a lot about being a veno when I used to play MY-EN. Often times, these venos try to ask questions but no one answers them. I usually do try to answer questions and help the best way I can. Another thing about KS-ing, I've been acused of doing it and I quickly learned that if I see someone going toward a mob to stop and see if they attack it before sending my pet after it. And then when I do KS someone (usually on accident), I apologize.

Another thing I would like to say about venos has to do with parties. Sometimes, I'll be doing a quest and someone sends me a squad invite. I used to just accept them no matter if I was almost done or just started. Now I generally don't especially if I'm one or two monsters away from finishing the quest. So if I don't except your invite, don't pm me and curse me out. It might be because I'm almost done and I just don't want to accept an invite that could go to someone else that just started the quest. I don't mind accepting invites even random ones and generally if I finish before you do, I'll stick around and help you finish. All you have to do is ask nicely and i'll gladly help. Another thing if you invite me, i'll ask you if you are killing the same thing so please ask me. People assume that because your killing the same monster, that you are on a quest. Sometimes, you could be farming dq (like I sometimes do) or just grinding.

Sorry this post is so long but I'm going to give you an example, I was killing wolves near Arch and I saw another wf killing the same thing. So I pmed her and asked her if she would join me because I was doing a quest. She pmed me back and said very politely, "No thank you, I'm farming DQ mats." I said I understood and went back doing my quests. It was all very polite and no one got hurt.

In other words, its good to see that not everyone thinks we Venos are bad. Someone of us just need some friendly advice and maybe some help. I'm usually doing quests and grinding myself so if you are ever on Sanctuary, pm me. I like making new friends and talking as I grind.

Crash - Heavens Tear

alot of different uses for different classes,

If were speaking of a FB party (this being your the same level as the FB or so), its Barb>Cleric>Veno>Archer/Mage>Blademaster, thats imo, i only realy see a BM as a defense buffer in these things which is useful i suppose but there not the best for DD unless higher levels or Solo AoE which there the best at.

TT i think goes like this, barb>Cleric>Veno>Archer>Mage>Blademaster again at last, even tho there buff can be very useful for higher level TT, there still not a requirement, but they can also be good for taking any extra mob that comes along so i cud move them past the Mage i suppose, but it dont matter for now.

AoE partys, Barb/Blademaster>Cleric>Archer>Mage>>>Venomancer only if theres no barb or BM id say a veno wud be let into the party, but even then someone else could lure anyway, also i think that a veno shouldent be alloud into a AoE party simply because they have it all to easy anyway, so why shud all the other classes have it abit hard around the beginning while veno's have it easy all the way through, be let into a AoE party for even easyier exp lol

also i put archer ahead of mage because when in AoE, i seen many mages die sometimes from maby a few to many mobs being lured at once, or they suck all the agro from the other DD, plus the archer has light armour realy which i dotn see many mages wear, which means the archer can take more of a beating, plus usualy more HP and sometimes they can dodge there hits.

Volluto - Lost City

Ok, back to check in.
As for the consensus from the general perspective, it seems to be:
Cleric > Barb > Veno > Archer > Wizard > BM

I think, we can all agree that clerics are the highest valued class in the game.

Side Note: Healers > Attacking Cleric, seriously. If you want to make a DD cleric, just go wizard, make other peoples lives easier by making us believe you're a healer when you're not, reviving us with lvl 1, no purify, and just being stupid in fbs and such.

PS. Panda Barbs are the cutest =P

jenenji

Have fun tanking Mantavip Scout without a mage to tank him. All classes have their uses and are needed at some point in the game. Well except for BMs...hehe




JK....sometimes when you dont have a Barb, a BM works almost as good.

Saiena - Heavens Tear

Volluto - Lost City wrote: »

Side Note: Healers > Attacking Cleric, seriously. If you want to make a DD cleric, just go wizard, make other peoples lives easier by making us believe you're a healer when you're not, reviving us with lvl 1, no purify, and just being stupid in fbs and such.

Basically, you're telling other people how to live their (online) lives. I think I consider myself quite fortunate in that the sole purpose of my life is not to pave your roads with rose petals, and make yours easier.

I'll have fun with my FAC cleric, thank you very much. And even if I do change my mind, and go into being a support cleric, the gratifying feeling I get from randomly buffing/healing people I see out there will definitely not come from healing those with your attitude.

Cosmos - Heavens Tear

jenenji wrote: »

Have fun tanking Mantavip Scout without a mage to tank him. All classes have their uses and are needed at some point in the game

Considering a friend and I (both Clerics) took Mantavip down just earlier this evening makes this point null.

Of course, however, when it comes to PvP things are entirely different.

Fierydevil - Lost City

Volluto - Lost City wrote: »

To clarify the tension in regards to the class value in PWI, it is as follows:

Clerics > Barb/BM > Wizard/Archer > Veno

Of course there might be a slight variance due to certain circumstances as for a quest/hh/tw/pvp scenarios, but in general that's what each class is valued at.

What do you guys think, this a nay or yay? b:question

Venos > All b:victory b:victory

*chitose* - Heavens Tear

For me...

Clerics > BM/Barb > Veno > Wiz/Arch

Not that I mean Wizard and Archer aren't significant. They're great short ranged attack, and it'll be a huge help to help any around. It's just that... we can be just fine with Barb and BM to hold and attack. Venomancer could be almost anything since the pet can be a Tank. There can be differences under circumstances but I guess what makes a team/group strong is how they cooperate with each other. Clerics is the most important for me since with a cleric to heal, any class can stand just as long as needed with their flood heal.

I once have only BMs (4 BMs, actually) but we took down boss and its minions with great teamwork and it was the strongest team I've ever been into. A complete team, however, in my view has all class at once to do their own specialty. (even Veno can be in the group. ^^)

... AAAND... about FAC Clerics, they have the right to be whatever they want to be. If you know they're not really a full support type, then don't ask FAC Clerics to revive you. It's great if a Clerics can be a hybrid though... that'll be awesome. ^^

Specgoesemo - Lost City

Here's the most accurate one yet:

EP = Barb = Veno = WR = EA > Wiz b:laugh

Thread Closed >.>

Amour - Lost City

Specgoesemo - Lost City wrote: »

Here's the most accurate one yet:

EP = Barb = Veno = WR = EA > Wiz b:laugh

Thread Closed >.>

b:cry
lol.

Hm_volluto - Lost City

lol, I have no personal problem with FACs, and Saiena, learn how to read between the lines.
If you can't see the actual meaning before going off with the wrong assumptions, i don't know what to say.

Anyways, FACs have their spot in the game, I know a few friends myself that have taken that route, surely it's main purpose is for pvp, but they do have the ability to join parties for HH/FBs/TWs, it's just the ones who say "me" when asked for a cleric/healer.

There's an agreeable assumption within the game, pretty much a stereotype that when people ask for clerics for FBs/HHs/etc they mean they're in need of a healer.
Every FAC I've seen that's said "me" to the cleric call been kicked out of squads, or has been ridiculously criticized at due to the fact the other players feel lied to. Everyone knows, the higher the level, the more valuable exp is, and when you get a FAC coming in to fill the role of a healer and reviving with lvl 1 or no purify or minimal buffs, it's very, very frustrating. Until higher levels, FACs aren't really that noticable.

FACs should make it clear that they're an FAC, not a healer.

Happy Friday~

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear

My take on it:

Healing Cleric > Tank > Veno > DD'ers

I'm not sure how to arrange Archers, Wizards, BMs and Battle Clerics. lol. I don't know enough about their skills yet.

The healer ALWAYS comes first, because if your reviver/healer is dead then you are all dead. If the tank (usually Barb) goes down for whatever reason, the DD'ers can fly around and panic while the cleric revives the tanker. Then the poor white tiger can regrab aggro and life continues.

Venos come before DD'ers because of their ability to pull. It's the only "advantage" they really have. Otherwise they'd just be grouped with the rest of the DD'ers.

Hm_volluto - Lost City

This game gets a little repetitive... lol

crystalhaztazahs

jenenji wrote: »

Have fun tanking Mantavip Scout without a mage to tank him. All classes have their uses and are needed at some point in the game. Well except for BMs...hehe

JK....sometimes when you dont have a Barb, a BM works almost as good.

I personally find that all classes are the same value, some used more than others. It just depends how one looks at it. It also depends on what build he/she is using. Like a barb using tank build would be picked for party rather than a barb with strength build because of the more HP put into a tank build. I think all classes have their strengths and weaknesses, and that all classes take part in some major role in the party. Clerics can heal, barbies can tank, venomancers can pull, archers/blademasters/wizards can do big damage. Also, if the blademaster is high enough, it can tank, or a wizard can tank specific magic bosses.

Hm_Volluto wrote:

This game gets a little repetitive... lol

Yeah, I quite agree.

Naris - Heavens Tear

crystalhaztazahs wrote: »

I personally find that all classes are the same value, some used more than others. It just depends how one looks at it. It also depends on what build he/she is using. Like a barb using tank build would be picked for party rather than a barb with strength build because of the more HP put into a tank build. I think all classes have their strengths and weaknesses, and that all classes take part in some major role in the party. Clerics can heal, barbies can tank, venomancers can pull, archers/blademasters/wizards can do big damage. Also, if the blademaster is high enough, it can tank, or a wizard can tank specific magic bosses.



Yeah, I quite agree.

Agreed. FWIW, most people tend to assume your playing according to your stereotype when they're calling for a class, and when they find out that you're not as good a fit for your role you may get kicked out.

Attack clerics are nice PvPers, the problem is their resurrection (and some healing) is usually underleveled. While this isn't as much a problem at lower levels, at high levels the difference between a level 10 res and a level 1 res can be a loss of millions of points of exp to a character. Since you level so slowly at higher levels anyways, this is an issue. If you're an attack cleric be honest about your position. You'll do good damage and provide secondary healing, but you're not a healer and shouldn't pretend to be one... and may want to warn about your low level res (or give your party members guardian angels or something).

I've seen BM tank bosses with the same skill as barbs, wizards heal for bosses like clerics and tank all magic bosses like mantavip (wizard magic shields makes their magic defense far higher than any ordinary character assuming they're robe armored). Archers make spectacular tanks against mobs that hit with magic from a range (light armor has more magic defense overall), and having several venos in a party lets you tank bosses with a single pet.

I think we can all agree on this ranking for selecting party members:

People that know how to play their class and are helpful > People who know but are jerks > People who don't know that are learning > People that are just idiots.

ark

When Venos start getting the hercules, then tell me how valuable they are in parties.

... I'll save you the trouble, actually.

Veno>>>>>>>>>>>EP>WB>EA>WR>MG.

Eliatron - Lost City

FAC have some right has everyone!
I dont like FAC that much because is not my playing style, but Id like to mention ONE thing.
Do you know how many SP and money you need to level revive and Purify? Both skill wont be used that much for you, its just for others....
So lets say a poor cleric is support and good "oh, Ill lvl revive to help fellows who died".... doing this avoids him to lvl some debuffs... yeah, now go lvl by yourself, will take years!!!
Im almost full support, to kill mobs takes me an average of 5-7 hits.... its suxs XD and not always ppl is around.

So dont complain if we have revive at lvl 1, you still saving yourself 10%, or just give me money and SP and Ill level happily a skill that DONT work on me.

Wei - Heavens Tear

Naris - Heavens Tear wrote: »

(light armor has more magic defense overall),

What? Shouldn't that be magic armor?

Hm_volluto - Lost City

LOL..
Arcane is designated for magic defense, providing greater resistance for the fundamental elements of the game (e.g. wood, water, etc).

@ Eliatron: Purify + Rev, valuable skills. Just like any other skill for any class, it costs SP and $. Learn how to manage your money.