Seeker procing g17 and basically any other weapon

weapon762

Just got g17 s3 about a week or so back was super pumped about this weapon, pretty sure I'm the first seeker to get one on my server etherblade, so I went for purge.

Now seeker having no access to purge before, this seemed like a no brainer, just purge and even crits will take somebody out from r9s4 weapon, however I've had many questions regarding the proc rate, cause of course , the first thing I did was weapon test it.

Now I have tested field tested many weapons since I have like 6 r8r weapons and have a bevy of nearly every proc weapon that can exist, except of course every single new weapons proc that g17 has.

So I grabbed a bunch of friends to let me beat up on them for a bit to test my weapon(sadly couldn't find anybody too tanky that was on or would let me beat em up since I still have 171 attack lvs even without my r9s4 equipped and I kept accidently killing them) so I tried it on an pretty ok Sb ,Db and a sin.

Of course I had a lot of misses on auto atck(blah seeker acc), and my fastest spam skills like rock splitting cleave and stagger strike don't hit quite as fast as a Db (I watched on YouTube this guy from another server that got first g17 and rolled it so we can check the effects .

Now I seen that video and was trying to check my progress to see if I purged as much as the Db I seen and I expected it to be less (of course I hit slower )
But not nearly non existent (also weirdly enough there is no purple cloud when u purge it literally has no warning or animation) now, I didn't have time to keep doing testing but after an half an hour it seemed like enough, the weapon barely works...

weapon762

Obviously dismayed ) but still thinking maybe there is another reason (or maybe I should find another proc to use idk )
I have noticed quite a few problems over the years with my class, terrible proc rates for nearly every skill, skill descriptions, that simply do not do as the skill says, no real gtfo skills since we are permanently locked in placed with gankers stacking and dog piling in.

weapon762

Out of all things that my class has problems is proc rates because half our skills that proc do not do so due to terrible acc .
It's not just a problem with skills I'm fairly sure that it also relates to weapon procs because seeker procs queue higher than the weapon's procs it proc with , in short seeker procs rates of their skills are now affecting their weapon procing.

This is bad news for any seeker looking to gain some type of g17 advantage like every single other class can(because all other classes don't have stances).

weapon762

Further testing is pending when I finally get some time to start trying it again ....but in the meantime I'd like to ask a few questions and maybe we can all get proc rates for every weapon sorted since seeker is a special special case cause not much is known on how seeker skill procs is affect vs weapon procs.

#1 can any seeker or any class with the (purge) weapon proc share your experience with it (I heard about some seeker purging on vortex aoe in x server not sure if they had weapon out to troll or what or if it works alot )

#2 what skills trigger the procs ?
I had talked to some archers on my server trying to understand their proc rates for purge (I have r9 Db and Sb and my main is Seeker so I don't have any experience with r9 archer )

#3 what class are you? and when you get g17 what procs will let you get?

#4 Does anybody have any experience with the other offensive proc that drops mag and p. def down to 0? (the new g17 proc that is similar to how thunderstrike procs on r8r) and if so does the rate run higher ?

Thanks for reading through all this I never get a lot time to get to the game or forums lately, since I work 2 jobs+ have kids, so I appreciate if we can all work together to get this thread active, since there is not a lot info regarding these weapons( even though I know the gentleman on another forum page made a huge section explaining some things about but hes only 1 guy so lets give em a hand).

You either have to have tons of cash money to get one, or u have massive free high lvs alt army farming like I did to get one so early so I know there won't be to much activity since alot don't have it , but if you do share your experience below Thanks

mooglemonger

Yea I'm thinking the proc rates for g17 are garbage. I still wouldn't mind a defense level weapon someday, maybe I won't bother with being picky on the procs...

weapon762

Tbh im getting massively fed up with pwi never giving us proper info on this stuff , it's not like they have to spend months or years or thousands of dollars farming it.
Like the r9s4 mage weapons we found out the proc rate is **** on them so they refunded all those people that got it, this is much worse because u cannot simply just buy it.
Apparently the mage gouf version works like a charm and so does the gouf, but yet the purge one does not? Those are all the big main r9 procs so they should have been the same .

jsxshadow

If you have trouble with accuracy just pop 2 golden soulgems in your weapons and go for 300 dex. That's what I would do.

Before someone says that it nerfs the damage too much..nope. hitting 80% of the time with 15% less damage is still way more damage compared to hitting 30% of the time with normal damage.

If you have around 10k accu you should be fine.

sylenthunder

jsxshadow wrote: »

If you have trouble with accuracy just pop 2 golden soulgems in your weapons and go for 300 dex. That's what I would do.

Before someone says that it nerfs the damage too much..nope. hitting 80% of the time with 15% less damage is still way more damage compared to hitting 30% of the time with normal damage.

If you have around 10k accu you should be fine.

TBH, I think those numbers are heavily exaggerated. I'm pretty sure they would be considerably less impacting.​​

weapon762

I did do dex a long time ago and the build was not sufficient damage on zerks, and it did not change much since I was still missing on LA ,and losing that kinda damage of you simply missing alot , vs smaller laughable damage while they are doing more to you than you are to them isn't even debatable .

So i switched back , and for me fights are all about crits which I'm about base of 50% (well 48 for now since I went and grabbed a r9s4 for mor3 atck lvs) nerfed now but how could I know would that they was going do that then.

But u don't understand it's not just the acc of the toon, it's the actual skills itself, which is rock splitting cleave and staggering strike, that have a separate acc on themselves independent of the acc the seeker it's always been this problem.

That is why they can nearly always miss even on mages which do NOT stat dex so they have no where near the evasion a HA, or especially a LA has.

And you cannot proc if u miss which within itself is its own problems.

weapon762

Speaking of procing, that's what this was all about.
The purge proc is simply behaving oddly for seeker vs the video I seen for the Db is technically 1 out of 4 hits which is crazy fast .

For me I don't even have a gauranteed number till purge in a test of say over 50 sessions what I would do is I'd stop and measure per hit till I purged and record it.

Some purges literally took 58 hits, I mean who is gonna stand there and let u purge them for that many hits ? Even kiting nobody has that level of patience cause if u could kite THAT long u could probably kill them without purging em.

So why did a Db purge faster then me with the SAME weapon proc in a more gaurneteed sucessesion than I got? .

Unless there was somthing interfering with the procs to begin with somthing I noticed happening when I test weapons in the first place .

-It's the procs of the skills - because the people who created literally don't understand combat of the seeker itself ask yourself if you created a skill that was supposed to 100% work and it didn't wouldn't u call that a failure?

Heartseeker and Ion spike are made to be used with no stance yet that's not how seeker was created in first place, meaning somebody messed up starting there, see those skills are supposed to be 100% yet can fail just like any other proc we have (bm and barb have 100% skills of their own that do not miss).

So since we know seeker can now miss with 100% chance skills then that does not bode well for the rest of the really really low chance to proc skills like parchblade dance and duelist glee, and especially since if you have a merged skill like glowblade, how i a 100% chance skill proc can fail to proc how is low chance skills like glowblade, can those even be ABLE to proc?

The skills rates% are on a specific rotation and are pushed higher in queue according to the proc chance of the skill itself, makes sense right?
Say Your using northern sky stance or even windblade (which is a merger of the stance and the skill used to activate the proc, stagger strike and northern sky waltz) and the chance to proc is 40% vs glowingblade (merger of battousai and dualist glee) which is 20% ish, clearly your gonna expect the proc for northern sky stance or windblade to happen more often since it has a higher number ?

And you would be correct.

So how do u get glowing blade to proc if its the lower number % vs a higher skill like
Northern sky stance or windblade the merger of that stance.

Keep spamming the opposite skill of a proc you don't want, THEN spam a skill of one you do want to proc.
See as soon as you proc say the northern sky waltz or some skill proc you don't want , and the icon stays on the opponents debuff bar so long as that icon stays it cannot be overwritten by using the same skill to apply the same debuff again.
(Since it functions the way normal procs do and does not override unlike paralyze skill procs do).
This heightens the chance that the low level proc you want to proc to actually proc , since now in its no longer queued in rotation behind whatever skill that you used that had a higher chance% of procing, since the game knows the target has the icon of said description above of the skill with the higher%
So it now skips attempting to apply it again and goes straight for the next debuff which is the lower% one your currently spamming now.

This in meaning now your low chance skills get a way higher chance% then usual to proc so you can activate them for their effects and only because you had to use another set of skills just to apply the same debuff you wanted to in the first place.

So that proves there is a skill rotation to proc chances and we are specifically talking seeker here since we have stances and stuff that affect our proc rates of our weapons , meaning it screws with the chance a g17 proc will activate.

Considering how much coins it takes to get g17 that's a massive slap in the face unless they fix g17 purge to match what archers get on their r9 weapons because , let's face it even a stage 3 g17 s3 can be a game breaker comparable to a r9s4 even ( especially for a mage) I know like out of the 4 on my server that has g17s3 I'm the only other class that's not a mage and 2 of the mages went straight for magic zerks and plus 12 that thing because it's that dang good and they have max gear r9 weapons to compare it to.

So why isn't purge and it's a major proc ?
And especially since seeker is a special case the programming for the chance % is lower than anybody else's because we have to many effects all vying for a chance to activate I tried the weapon stanceless too and to no avail it simply won't work with seekers current line up of skills, and why should it ?

Seekers needed an update where we do combos similar to dbs and it needs to proc off ALL the hits hitting in a combo rather than 1 skill that has its own acc rate that can't even hit a target in the first place, it would make us faster paced and more focused on detail and keep others guessing what we will hit em with next.
That's why seeker has such a hard time with cc our skills was coded in rotation sequence% to proc only after another skill has.

zonden

First, you write like an english professor somewhere failed you terribly. My condolences.

Second, if you'd bothered to look up the proc before you bothered everyone else with this, you would have found out within minutes that Spirit Blackhole has an 8% procrate, counting exclusively those hits which do not apply a status effect.

Yes, purge can take a long time to happen if you're unlucky. Ask any archer.

keihan007#7641

Actually the new purge proc works on all skills, status effect or not. I do wonder if you need to deal dmg for purge to proc though. By what I mean is if BMs roar would also purge or not.

armoftheland

Has there been testing done that suggests this? Far as i know theres only been theories about the purge proc being improved on g17 to include all skills and literally no info on its proc rate.

weapon762

For one zonden if you would have bothered to look at the part of the forum explaining , the purify rate of r9s4 weapons vs r9s3 you will see all the proof I need to explain the difference on proc rates per weapon.

It's literally so much difference they had to actually refund people, because it's NOT what was advertised, the rate actually went down for an endgame tiered weapon that your spending time and money or whatever.
There is no way pwi could get away with their lack of testing.

So you have nothing scientific(you know actually testing stuff like I did) to add about your actual about testing weapons or even theories about your own class since that is what this part of the thread I built specifically pertaining to things you have noticed pertaining to the proc rates of g17 weapons or other weapons and how skills rates % affect them.

Also since this guy brought up archers being unlucky, can any r9 archers share their numbers to procing purge as well? a general how many times till you proc and can share your findings here .

Lastly my comparison to different classes purge rate for most of why u created this thread is because I've seen classes like duskblade purge almost every other hit while I struggle with 56 or so being my max and around 20 ish being my general .

I was also explaining how stances affect other proc rates of other seeker skills, because a stance acts like a passive that gives you a chance to proc a certain skill , unlike skills that always work regardless ( think of them like dots since they proc on hit) so because of that weapon procs and skills procs share the SAME rotation, in my testing purge, has not be treated as a separate proc, but instead it's being treated like it's part of seeker procs and not somthing separate like it's should be so it's actually messing up the rate of seeker purge vs what other classes get.

That's the problem.

The gentleman that tested the first g17 proc purge confirmed it's supposed to be 20% (which is the same as zerks which would make sense, but it's not procing anywhere near close to my zerks on my r9s4 weapon ) hence it's gotta be somthing else, I don't belive in luck, I belive in hard data which is why everybody that has or can test this should, since you would make vastly different choices on g17 weapon procs if you knew what failed and what didn't.

Saxroll I'll maybe try testing heartshatter on a target and see if I purges em, sorry am not a bm to be able to test roar, but shatter does actually proc the charm debuff passive skill, so idk maybe it can proc purge which would be pretty OP for bm.

mooglemonger

Is there a possibility of improved proc rates as you keep upgrading your g17 weapon throughout the stages?
I can't find any info on anything like this but if this were the case maybe thats why the proc rates on the g17s3 is garbage?

weapon762

Idk tbh yeah I hoped so but why waste all my time and coins farming a weapon that may or may not do what it's supposed too right?
Hence why I made this thread we are gonna figure it out ourselves since pwi won't.

It's beyond frustrating.

mooglemonger

Yea I hear you. It's not a small commitment, especially if you don't know what your getting.

capnk

weapon762 wrote: »

The gentleman that tested the first g17 proc purge confirmed it's supposed to be 20% (which is the same as zerks which would make sense, but it's not procing anywhere near close to my zerks on my r9s4 weapon ) hence it's gotta be somthing else, I don't belive in luck, I belive in hard data which is why everybody that has or can test this should, since you would make vastly different choices on g17 weapon procs if you knew what failed and what didn't.

That guy seems to have vastly overstated the proc rates on everything. We've had some people get G17 weapons since then and they're not proccing nearly as often. He was either trolling or posting a very small sample size.

zonden

The guy was trolling. Procing purge every 5hits on average would be completely idiotic.

Now for this guy:

weapon762 wrote: »

So you have nothing scientific(you know actually testing stuff like I did) to add about your actual about testing weapons or even theories about your own class since that is what this part of the thread I built specifically pertaining to things you have noticed pertaining to the proc rates of g17 weapons or other weapons and how skills rates % affect them.

Also since this guy brought up archers being unlucky, can any r9 archers share their numbers to procing purge as well? a general how many times till you proc and can share your findings here .

Lastly my comparison to different classes purge rate for most of why u created this thread is because I've seen classes like duskblade purge almost every other hit while I struggle with 56 or so being my max and around 20 ish being my general .

I was also explaining how stances affect other proc rates of other seeker skills, because a stance acts like a passive that gives you a chance to proc a certain skill , unlike skills that always work regardless ( think of them like dots since they proc on hit) so because of that weapon procs and skills procs share the SAME rotation, in my testing purge, has not be treated as a separate proc, but instead it's being treated like it's part of seeker procs and not somthing separate like it's should be so it's actually messing up the rate of seeker purge vs what other classes get.

That's the problem.

So. You don't get how averages work, but you feel like a real PWI scientist. And you just repeated to me exactly what I told you in my previous post.

On a happy side note, if do they fix this, they may end up accidentally buffing archers, which would be nice.

weapon762 wrote: »

The gentleman that tested the first g17 proc purge confirmed it's supposed to be 20% (which is the same as zerks which would make sense, but it's not procing anywhere near close to my zerks on my r9s4 weapon ) hence it's gotta be somthing else, I don't belive in luck, I belive in hard data which is why everybody that has or can test this should, since you would make vastly different choices on g17 weapon procs if you knew what failed and what didn't.

Purge being as likely as zerk "would make sense". ROTFL. Yeah man. Yeah. That would make so much sense.​​

weapon762

Trolling? Well the guy that posted it was the first and only to post any data relating to the g17 procs at all seeing as pwi hasn't, so seeing as only his data is all that exists besides mine , his is what I went by also to test my results vs his.

This guy.
Second, if you'd bothered to look up the proc before you bothered everyone else with this, you would have found out within minutes that Spirit Blackhole has an 8% procrate, counting exclusively those hits which do not apply a status effect.

Really ?
Guess what dude most seekers, if not almost all of them have stances on, which per hit give chance to proc whatever said stance proc they are using , so if you was right you just proved me right about why my status effects keep missing since all my skills have a chance to proc somthing with a stance on , heck it would mean it even if u didn't have stances, because your skills have been converted to the primal ones, EACH skill procs with 1 proc rather than having ever skill have the chance to proc what a stance would.

Also what saxroll wrote is correct about all skills having a chance to proc according to the video.

(Sidenote I noticed that I never have proc while auto attacking only while using skills) the Db is the video also had the same issue

Furthermore the guy specifically posted the VIDEOS on the forums showing his Db purging and all the g17 procs, so to the both of you stop trolling me and go watch them before you waste my time debating about somthing you haven't even bothered to check .

Now his purge rate is where I said that between his is mine somthing isn't right, first I clearly stated that this thread is about posting your results , IF you have a g17 weapon AND your is a blasted hurry to disprove/approve of the proc rates that g17 has, or does not have, then by all means POST it here.


I made this thread specifically because of the r9s4 purify mage weapons fiasco, clearly you both haven't read it ? Where endgame weapons do no work as it should and that aggravated people who threw huge piles of money at pwi to buy such a said weapon(or farmed it even worse), without knowing the devs messed with proc rates for their mage r9s4 making its nearly completely useless when an upgrade becomes a hidden downgrade compared to the prolly plus 12 max r9s3 weapon they spend money for no reason.

And for one as I stated I can no longer simply trust gear/weapons whatever pwi throws at us simply because there clearly not testing.
Every single aspect of this very old game the stakes are far higher this time since this weapon g17s5 currently cannot be cashed shopped in the traditional sense.

You literally have to put time into this thing even if you do cash it won't matter it will be like a year or a year and a half before enough mats hit the server enough to buy 1 of these weapons outright and the famous cashers on your servers will already have g17s5 by then.

So every single one of us that even does up homestead or anything related to the g17 weapons are pioneers of cutting edge technology.

Technology again without any proper testing is just this .

In science, ideas can never be completely proved or completely disproved. Instead, science accepts or rejects ideas based on supporting and refuting evidence, and may revise those conclusions if warranted by new evidence or perspectives. MISCONCEPTION: If evidence supports a hypothesis, it is upgraded to a theory.

This is how we found out what happened with r9s4 with controlled testing , as to that "thought" about archers getting buffed meaning if their purge proc gets higher because of failed dev testing, I don't care if they do, I'm a seeker not an archer, they already have purge as their primary weapon proc and could simply pick up a purge bow at anytime if they didn't have access to their primary r9 weapon.

I on the other hand do care about seekers clearly as I main one, but it's a stupidly built class that is clearly outdated, we also NEVER had access to purge before so NOBODY knows what it will do when we have a stance on or is stanceless because it's simply never been done, most of this forum pertains to all classes that it's simply NEVER been done like mystics ect..

They also never had access to purge either but it's a little more complicated when your stance that gives u a specific chance to proc a certain effect may actually be over ridding your weapon effect thus actually lowering it the skills should be in sync with the weapon and achieving balance.

Furthermore nobody else in my server but me has g17 purge (why?) Except me (I'm not a mage I'm a HA class)

Because they are all mages going for magical zerks (I already have zerk why would i need a second weapon to zerk ?)

BTW the zerks proc on the g17s3 for mages is so good that they are plus 12ing it (ok super rich to plus 12 a g17 s3 instead of waiting to use that plus 12 on g17s5 when its maxed but still clearly you all get my point) the damage on the g17s3 is So good BECAUSE of the proc that they chose for their weapon that people are technically maining it as their primary dd weapon rather than a weapon with already clearly superior stats r9s3 than it and technically you would need a r9s4 or r9s5 weapon to compete with the attack levels.

So again mages don't care about losing attack levels at this point to main a zerk weapon , I care about purge or at least heartbite rend to drop p.def because I already have zerk.

Now clearly their weapons are working enough to decide to +12 it why isn't mine when I seen another physical class (db) main the same proc yet gets wayyyyyyyy more increases results as him 1vs1 procing like I said go check his video.

I even tested my weapon in nw, used nothing but it for about an hour and counted my hits by how many damage charms I used and I'm at over 200 charms gone and no purge ? Seriously?

That's a point of why I made this thread to see if I need to reroll this weapon (or if any of you had had problems with the new procs) also I specially made this weapon with the clear thought I wanted purge so yeah , I should be pretty irritated if all the time I spent farming this thing(not cashing) does not do what it's SUPPOSED to do.

Wouldn't you be irate?

asterelle

I had a similar disappointing experience with g17 purge on the bow. The proc rate didn't seem any better than with the normal R9rr bow. It is a different proc since there is no effect animation and after like 20 mins of trying I was actually able to get a purge with a stun skill but it wasn't nearly as good as what we saw in that DB video. I did a few hundred skill shots and the proc rate was only like 4%. It seemed lower than what I got with normal auto attack but I'm not too sure. I was never able to get it to proc with frost splash even though that skill hits 5 times.

Overally it's not worth using for me since I already had my r9 purge and didn't see any noticeable improvement. I prefer having the purge animation as well so I can react better. For bow you want something else like GoF / untarget / purify spell.

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jsxshadow

aradya6793 wrote: »

that db is a good friend of mine
that good friend of mine used the purge weapon in pk and it was deftly purging in less than 10 hits per target
well db has no chann skills + multi hit skills so takes way less for a db to proc a purge, same concept applies to assassins
now i am wondering what is GoF chance to proc on g17 did anyone test it yet, is it the same proc of r9?​​

It is the same chance as r9. Same goes for caster GoF. It's also approx the same chance, so I heard.

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jsxshadow

aradya6793 wrote: »

jsxshadow wrote: »

aradya6793 wrote: »

that db is a good friend of mine
that good friend of mine used the purge weapon in pk and it was deftly purging in less than 10 hits per target
well db has no chann skills + multi hit skills so takes way less for a db to proc a purge, same concept applies to assassins
now i am wondering what is GoF chance to proc on g17 did anyone test it yet, is it the same proc of r9?

It is the same chance as r9. Same goes for caster GoF. It's also approx the same chance, so I heard.

i rly hope so at least offensive procs wont be a fiasco for me ​​

Overall...The new GoF really only suits those classes with fast skills/hits or without debuffs like Archer (for sure, even tho rend is nice too), Clerics, Mystics, Psychics.

I'm not sure about Rend or GoF for Storms and Wizards but I lean towards Rend TBH, especially as a wizard. Rend also is very useful since it can AOE-Proc giving you the possibility to support alot. That's more true for storms since we can spam AOE's more efficiently but it also doesnt hurt a wiz. When it procs and debuffs are applied it rains death. Caster GoF really procs alot and Storms could surely use it as well since they can cast quite fast and are mobile/less affected by CC. The chance to 0 def is damn nice tho. If rend procs the average damage should be higher than GoFs even tho GoFs proc rate is significantly higher than rends (~15-20% to ~8-9% (same as purge)).

It's all situational..and I really like the offensive aspect of G17.5 because it is not too broken and we can finally see some variety in gameplay since the options are broad. If it wasnt for those damned Def level weapons ffs. .-.

weapon762

Thanks asterelle, your exactly the right person I was looking to ask, I thought somthing seemed overtly ridiculous about that purge rate, I switched to heartbite rend for now and it seemed to proc a little more but not to much better.


Although if you get really really lucky it can multi chain proc at least and you do have animation at least in terms on a proc icon on the debuff bar.

weapon762

The thing is aradya is that it's taking 20 min for other classes besides Db to proc an offensively based skill which makes no sense because I even tried this on vortex on multi on multiple targets and still had this problem of not purging.

Asterelle did u try it on boa?

asterelle

Not really since BoA works with normal purges. I tested genie skills though like mire and earthquake since with the old proc most genie skills can't work due to their debuffs (that's why some just spam celestial sword). I didn't see any procs after like 10 minutes of testing, if it procs less often that once in 10 mins I didn't see any point.​​

jsxshadow

asterelle wrote: »

Not really since BoA works with normal purges. I tested genie skills though like mire and earthquake since with the old proc most genie skills can't work due to their debuffs (that's why some just spam celestial sword). I didn't see any procs after like 10 minutes of testing, if it procs less often that once in 10 mins I didn't see any point.​​

As far as I know from testing is that only skills with a physical component work. BoSH doesnt work as well, even tho it is physical + fire. Earth doesnt work as well.

Also Purge, just like Heartbite Rend, doesnt proc on the entire group. The proc chance is different for any target that you might catch in an AOE.

csquared5

A sin on my server has g17 r3 purge now. In a 20 minute fight, he probably purged me about 15 times. Proc rate definitely seems good for daggers.

weapon762

I just talked to a few more seekers and they are having the same problem the proc rates for anything but zerk are fail.

So, be prepared not to use anything for offense procing (which is offensive since seeker is the only affected by loss of an an offensive proc )(we already have r9 for zerk proc we don't need a second r9 blade)


-Mages now get zerk
-bm and barb already have access to zerk and purge
-LA class will now spam this weapon (aps)into absurdity

(And before anybody spams this thread with oh what about archers, archers attack rate is not so good, can get claws too right ? Purge on claws+weapon=gg options)

What they need to do is give seeker access to fists or claws so we can set up aps builds to have limited access to purge and rend like every other class or they should give a seeker only buff , I'm still testing with and without stances and sadlly rend don't proc much more often too.