A concerning question

jsxshadow

@kalystconquerer#0876 We had many debates about the update that will eventually come out next year and alot of discussions about specific classes and potential ways of how to fix certain problems.

The question is: Is there any realistic chance that any kind of balancing problems we would discover in this game could ever find their way to a CN Dev? Do you know if any feedback from the PWI community has ever made an influence on the game as a whole or so to say the CN version?

If so then it might be interesting to seriously gather up some issues that are foreseeable to cause problems for both versions of the game in a non-troll flooded thread. If you think it's pointless then we might as well leave it be. Thank you!

heerohex#3018

A few of the Ideas I have made or passed on have been put into the game.

Tho some of them really I would have liked a little credit but in all fairness you would never see the original idea to what they have done now.

many suggestion box items are in the game as well or items that have been asked for have entered the game.​​

jsxshadow

@heero200 mhm Thank you. I see.

Oddly enough it only seems that plain errors and item requests have been considered so far but never balancing suggestions. It could be due to the enraged nature of most rebalancing requests or CN that doesnt want us to mass with their balance. However, PWCN and PWI are not that far away from each other. The main difference is the lack of jones/o'malley-blessings and the different r9 sets. The real major balancing issues revolving around sins and Duskblades should be as vivid there as it is here but I never heard about any CN player complaining about them.

I admit that on average CN players have lesser damage and more defense which works against both sins and duskblades but that is only true unless they use the tower blessings cause they are not that much worse compared to jones and o'mally. If an equally geared sin can OS other AA/LA classes for 30k+ here they should at least be dealing 27k+ there which is like no difference at all since that will kill most LA/AA anyways.

The only difference I can acknowledge is that PWI has a meta full of endgame/near-endgame players while only very few have real endgame gears in PWCN. True..but balancing a game towards gear difference and only for certain classes is...well I won't ever understand that.

If you guys think its worth a shot making a decent thread about Assassin and Duskblade imbalance problems then I give it a shot. It's just that it's hard for me to understand why those problems are not obvious to anyone without the need to even create a thread. Do those people even play the game? Do they experience actual fair and balanced situations and aim towards that? I strongly doubt that to be honest. The changed needed are so blatently obvious that its excrutiating to watch how they make it worse with every update that gets released. No nerf? I get it. But why make it even worse?

heerohex#3018

Duskblades a few skills are bad. Sins have always been like.

The problem being that they are designed for solo play. In an mmo that's really odd...

kalystconquerer#0876

CN never says if they will 100% guarantee put something in that was suggested. Similarly, I tend to hear about a few dozen concerns every day and suggestions on things, but a portion of them I can't immediately action on so I never really give a "yes we can totally do this!" answer, or I become somewhat vague.

Remember when we had a thread running about things to ask the dev by Orinj? I had the privilege of asking the dev some questions myself and pitch a few suggestions. I defiantly impressed on him that for us players out here, it takes users a long time to do dailies and suggested changing them up or bumping up rewards. I also asked if there was a way to increase BH rewards or rework this in such a way to offer better rewards. Obviously, there were some things I'm not allowed to discuss openly here, but he was very nice.

When it comes to direct class to class in game balance, they tend to keep a tighter leash on that and look more towards their playerbase for problems. When it comes to, well, most other things, they can be more...receptive? I will stress very much that due to language barriers, some things get lost in translation and sometimes, things we suggest do not get implemented the way we think it will.

So in short, it's about the approach and the doors of discussion they're willing to open. I haven't been around nearly long enough to say "this way of asking will guarantee give you an answer".

greenfire312

Gear balance is a much bigger issue than class balance IMO, and since 2009 the devs (several different teams of them, I'm given to believe) have yet to show any interest in or indication of fixing that.

The main reason for this as I understand it is that China's version has much less power creep than our version does, though I'm not up on all the specifics. For example, I hear a lot that almost no one over there has R9 - whereas on our version, it was made into a cash shop commodity. Between the massive amount of attack levels and high refined characters we have in our version, PVP would naturally be very different in their version to say the least. And the changes required to fix this would require nerfs, which the devs rarely if ever are willing to do.

eirghan

greenfire312 wrote: »

Gear balance is a much bigger issue than class balance IMO, and since 2009 the devs (several different teams of them, I'm given to believe) have yet to show any interest in or indication of fixing that.

The main reason for this as I understand it is that China's version has much less power creep than our version does, though I'm not up on all the specifics. For example, I hear a lot that almost no one over there has R9 - whereas on our version, it was made into a cash shop commodity. Between the massive amount of attack levels and high refined characters we have in our version, PVP would naturally be very different in their version to say the least. And the changes required to fix this would require nerfs, which the devs rarely if ever are willing to do.

If thats true and a rare few have r9 in China I have no idea why g17 would have been released (maybe because it is more farmable there than it is here?) It makes no sense to me at all.​​

heerohex#3018

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

CN never says if they will 100% guarantee put something in that was suggested. Similarly, I tend to hear about a few dozen concerns every day and suggestions on things, but a portion of them I can't immediately action on so I never really give a "yes we can totally do this!" answer, or I become somewhat vague.

Remember when we had a thread running about things to ask the dev by Orinj? I had the privilege of asking the dev some questions myself and pitch a few suggestions. I defiantly impressed on him that for us players out here, it takes users a long time to do dailies and suggested changing them up or bumping up rewards. I also asked if there was a way to increase BH rewards or rework this in such a way to offer better rewards. Obviously, there were some things I'm not allowed to discuss openly here, but he was very nice.

When it comes to direct class to class in game balance, they tend to keep a tighter leash on that and look more towards their playerbase for problems. When it comes to, well, most other things, they can be more...receptive? I will stress very much that due to language barriers, some things get lost in translation and sometimes, things we suggest do not get implemented the way we think it will.

So in short, it's about the approach and the doors of discussion they're willing to open. I haven't been around nearly long enough to say "this way of asking will guarantee give you an answer".

Thats a really bad view on the development of this game.

as we have different servers to them PvE we have a lot more problems. DQ, Bots, ETC ETC. Their reason for turning the DQ items to 0 because of bots. PWI has no where near the amount of problems with that.

PW should have a lot more settings to compensate for different versions of the game. I understand they do the Dev and Thinking for the future but these settings could protect the future of the game as well.

Harsh but true so many times.​​

mooglemonger

How do you balance gear indifference? How do you balance what a person is willing to spend on a game? Should a heavy cash shopper, a paying customer, just so happens to do it on an assassin or duskblade should get nerfed? How is that fair? That's like an owner telling a regular customer that buys a coffee everyday from their coffee place to get lost!
The classes are more or less balanced. As all classes are good and bad at different things. It's not the devs fault that their customers cash shop certain classes more then others...
Cry foul all you want but doing things that tells your customers to take a hike is well **** ( means to slow, hinder)

hoshichan

im a nuema portal endgame psy and i have been hit for 37.000 by an equally geared assassin last NW. i was buffed and not debuffed. my hp is 37.500. in return i hit these people rarey for more than 10.000, that is when i manage to stay alive long enough to remove their 4 magical defense charms.#

i very much doubt its the same situation in china and i truly lost my will to continue playing this class after the recent fights against certain assassins and duskblades.

greenfire312

mooglemonger wrote: »

How do you balance gear indifference? How do you balance what a person is willing to spend on a game? Should a heavy cash shopper, a paying customer, just so happens to do it on an assassin or duskblade should get nerfed? How is that fair? That's like an owner telling a regular customer that buys a coffee everyday from their coffee place to get lost!
The classes are more or less balanced. As all classes are good and bad at different things. It's not the devs fault that their customers cash shop certain classes more then others...
Cry foul all you want but doing things that tells your customers to take a hike is well **** ( means to slow, hinder)

There was actually a time before selling R9 in the cash shop, you know. PWE managed just fine during that time (or at least I've never seen any indication to the contrary). So there was never a reason they had to go this route. That being said, yeah, some of the power creep can't be rolled back now and even some more recent game content has been built around it, sadly.

So to answer your question, what would I suggest? At this point... my moonshot would probably be a new server with different options entirely, so you can start over without the power creep. For example: R9 would exist, but it'd take forever to get and the attack levels on it would be nerfed substantially. That way you don't deprive anyone of their existing stuff, but you offer other options as well.

heero200 wrote: »

Thats a really bad view on the development of this game.

as we have different servers to them PvE we have a lot more problems. DQ, Bots, ETC ETC. Their reason for turning the DQ items to 0 because of bots. PWI has no where near the amount of problems with that.

PW should have a lot more settings to compensate for different versions of the game. I understand they do the Dev and Thinking for the future but these settings could protect the future of the game as well.

Harsh but true so many times.​​

I'm going to have to second this. It's good that we have a functional dev team again, but we still get screwed by the fact that they're so reluctant to make things any different for a version (and lest we forget, the associated market) which desperately needs those differences. I mean, we dropped all value for DQs because of CN bots, and then we got a botting system. I can't for the life of me think why they'd even need that in the CN version either, and on this side of the pond it just comes off as tone-deaf.

In fairness, I also remember when FF hypering got shut off a few times because of CN(?) forgetting to re-enable it for our version in particular (if memory serves, CN didn't ever have it). So I do understand the precedent for them being reluctant to support so many changes, but it still needs to be addressed as a long-term problem.

eirghan wrote: »

If thats true and a rare few have r9 in China I have no idea why g17 would have been released (maybe because it is more farmable there than it is here?) It makes no sense to me at all.

My guess is because farming R9 over there is akin to farming g17s4/5 right now - long, grueling and virtually impossible. :P In other words, what we're seeing with g17 right now is exactly how R9 was initially intended to be (at least, until we get new content which will inevitably make g17 mats go the way of POFs).

catgirldesu

CN probably wants to make each version of PW more alike, to make it easier for them to make updates and fixes, as well as to avoid cases like the FFC Hypering being shut down by accident (until they decided to leave it like that). That's very understandable, but I feel like it's a little too late for PWI. I've talked with players from other PW versions, and their servers are a lot closer to CN servers than ours; ours are special.

We have a big number of PWI exclusive content like our R9r3, Nirvana G16/T3, NW forges (and the upgrades they offer), then we have the differences in PvE/PvP balance due to said exclusive content. I'm stating the obvious here, but it's really not a good idea for the CN devs to abandon PWI's "special" needs just because they decided they want all versions to be the same now. It's simply not possible for PWI, and they need to account for that.

Though I understand their version is the priority (and it would be weird if it wasn't), but we need some love, too.
​​

bizzah

mooglemonger wrote: »

How do you balance gear indifference? How do you balance what a person is willing to spend on a game? Should a heavy cash shopper, a paying customer, just so happens to do it on an assassin or duskblade should get nerfed? How is that fair? That's like an owner telling a regular customer that buys a coffee everyday from their coffee place to get lost!
The classes are more or less balanced. As all classes are good and bad at different things. It's not the devs fault that their customers cash shop certain classes more then others...
Cry foul all you want but doing things that tells your customers to take a hike is well **** ( means to slow, hinder)

You are taking that out of context quite a bit. There is an easy fix to gear imbalance. Farm your gears up to the level others have it too. Look at me. I have 6x r9 at least full +10 chars all with Lords of Morai Cardset. Free 2 Play. If I had focused on one char I would've easily have 1st/2nd rb nuema portal, max gears, full devil/serenity stones with a max star chart. Easy peasy. That is not that point tho. The classes are not balanced. Not at all and especially not on even lower gears (like r9 +7) cause then every single skill an Assa can use literally oneshots anything while NO OTHER CLASS comes even close to kill anything equally geared with just one skill alone.

How would it be unfair to nerf DBs and Sins? Thats 2 classes out of 12. The other classes can cashshop even more, get even better gears and will most likely still lose to those 2 classes. Yeah. Super fair. What you said is exactly the reason why DBs and Sins must be nerfed because they are literally telling the majority of the other classes to take a hike or rather to reroll if they wanna play a strong class. Dunno if you were trolling or not but your comment was pretty pointless and not well thought out.

PS: Before someone says its so hard to get r9 in PWI and decent refines. I urge you to play some Pay to play games and look how much freaking time you need there to get max gears just to get a new update 2 weeks after accomplishing it that renders all that gear you've farmed completely useless. PWI's gear scaling is ok, it always was. Even now. Why bother with better geared people? If the difference isnt ultra-massive you can still beat them with skills cause those ultra-geared people are usually the worst in terms of skill anyways which is why I dont see any problem there.

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mooglemonger

@bizzah @aradya6793 Actually my post was thought out and I believe neither one of you have an endgame assassin or duskblade. It's not do w/e with your eyes closed and faceroll the keyboard and when you open your eyes everything around you is dead..
For the NP psy thst got nearly one shot at 37k hp well chances are you were in black voodoo and didn't/ couldn't have your psy will up so the sin got there chance and took it...

Well I am glad that the dev's don't act on nerf requests. Especially ones not thought out like this.

Go ahead and march over to China with fire and pitchforks, demanding change but it's like I said you can't balance the cash shop. Long ago PWI opened the Pandoras Box and let out the Play to Win and well it is what it is. This is the effect of it.

hoshichan

mooglemonger wrote: »

@bizzah @aradya6793 Actually my post was thought out and I believe neither one of you have an endgame assassin or duskblade. It's not do w/e with your eyes closed and faceroll the keyboard and when you open your eyes everything around you is dead..
For the NP psy thst got nearly one shot at 37k hp well chances are you were in black voodoo and didn't/ couldn't have your psy will up so the sin got there chance and took it...

Well I am glad that the dev's don't act on nerf requests. Especially ones not thought out like this.

Go ahead and march over to China with fire and pitchforks, demanding change but it's like I said you can't balance the cash shop. Long ago PWI opened the Pandoras Box and let out the Play to Win and well it is what it is. This is the effect of it.

i dont even...so not having psy-will up results automatically in me getting hit for 37 k? black voodoo?? i have 105 def lvl in black vodoo and 2271 spirit. according to your logic its okay for everyone to die 1 hit to sins.

true sin main talking.

jsxshadow

@mooglemonger No. The main problem is that there are too many bad players that play sin and Duskblade. Duskblades have to work a little harder for their kills yap, but equally geared josd sins can oneshot my Josd Stormbringer out of the blue with one skill alone. No other class can do that let alone be able to do that. It's stupid. If a player actually knows how to CC for 20 sec or more as an assassin then they actually deserve to land a kill. Being able to press a single button and to instantly kill someone with that should be impossible and it it is possible then it is broken.

Personally I play a r9 Duskblade (signature for more info) and I have no problem beating even the strongest player on our server unless they play DB as well or if they are sins. Mind you that I also refuse to use DB ulti in 99% of my fights...there is no challange on Dawnglory, no matter how much I get overgeared when its not a sin or db. That's not broken as well?

Well, you can say as much as you want. The only sin or db players that claim that those classes are not totally broken compared to the other classes are those players that lack skill. Massively. On equal gears a sin always wins vs any other class (incl db) and a db wins vs any other class (cept for sin). If not then those players suck and should learn how to play their class. period. Don't even get me started as to how much surviveability tidal adds in mass pvp...I don't even. But hey. totally ok. totally balanced. ya...right...

That is what I hate. People claim stuff is balanced because they are unable to utilize the full potential. What a joke.

dregenfox

aradya6793 wrote: »

its just years that sin class needs to be nerfed to the ground and instead it is getting even more buffed every patch... primal skills: life hunter elimination buffs, home skills: earthen, spell, condensed buff, undetectable stealth ult, next rune skills: 500%+ base damage elimination buff + paralyze on cursed jail + paralyze on shadow jump + life hunter buff

pvp gameplay for sins it's so unbalanced and biased it feels like who is devving PW in China has to be playing a sin on their servers....

i hate when ppl say broken classes like dbs and sins... dbs are goddamn manageable, they can get purged, they can get debuffed, they can get nuked to ground.... you cannot do the same to sins lol​​

This is definitely going to become a major issue. The only thing that kept sins manageable as a melee class was their lack of paralyze, and now they've given them uncounterable CC. There should be proper counters in this game, I would give up purify in a heartbeat for the removal of all paralyzes from the game. \

That may be an unpopular opinion but some of the most fun fights I've ever had in game was before paralyze and purify procs were put in, now any fight vs BM becomes a guessing/luck game and if you guess wrong you end up stunlocked for 10 or more seconds.

Players have compensated by playing duels with full cleric/barb/bm buffs for everything + double def charms at 100%, which is just stupid. And now PWI has decided to give easy, high-chance purges to those same melee classes.

mooglemonger

@hoshichan you make it sound like 105 defense levels is alot... I'm sorry that your NP set still isn't enough. I honestly don't know what to say to that. If you knew what spirit the sin had ( inb4 he only had 1000... lolol) your 2200 ish spirit might not been enough against it, as in you did not have a greater amount more then what they had and in that case well.... that happens. There could still be people out there that are in your gear league, maybe even slighty better geared. Neuma Portal isn't the all deciding factor. There's NP players on my server and in this point in time they are not any kind of threat...

dregenfox

hoshichan wrote: »

mooglemonger wrote: »

@bizzah @aradya6793 Actually my post was thought out and I believe neither one of you have an endgame assassin or duskblade. It's not do w/e with your eyes closed and faceroll the keyboard and when you open your eyes everything around you is dead..
For the NP psy thst got nearly one shot at 37k hp well chances are you were in black voodoo and didn't/ couldn't have your psy will up so the sin got there chance and took it...

Well I am glad that the dev's don't act on nerf requests. Especially ones not thought out like this.

Go ahead and march over to China with fire and pitchforks, demanding change but it's like I said you can't balance the cash shop. Long ago PWI opened the Pandoras Box and let out the Play to Win and well it is what it is. This is the effect of it.

i dont even...so not having psy-will up results automatically in me getting hit for 37 k? black voodoo?? i have 105 def lvl in black vodoo and 2271 spirit. according to your logic its okay for everyone to die 1 hit to sins.

true sin main talking.

Psychics are particularly vulnerable to one-shots from sins. Black voodoo/white voodoo interactions along with lack of self def buff will always ensure psys get hit harder than almost any other class. It's something you'll have to accept, I'm willing to bet your star chart is offensively oriented as well.

37k while full buffed would mean that he was sparked...even AA classes can get 1-2 shots with a triple spark crit. It's just something you have to watch out for and prepare.

mooglemonger

@jsxshadow I play a full diety sin so I can't comment on full jades, I honestly think it's kind of wierd but if those who do it make it work then good for them.

I see these threads pop up time and time again and to me its tiring. I still firmly believe the classes are relatively balanced and as for one shots well a bullet in the right place can change the world. Meaning at the right time, right situation anyone can get one shot. Even myself is deaden is on cd and the situation stacks up against me.

This game is a fancy paper, rock, scissors type. As for myself being a sin, I have a hard time against seekers as well as clerics, bms, and barbs that know how to use their survivals.

hoshichan

dregenfox wrote: »

hoshichan wrote: »

mooglemonger wrote: »

@bizzah @aradya6793 Actually my post was thought out and I believe neither one of you have an endgame assassin or duskblade. It's not do w/e with your eyes closed and faceroll the keyboard and when you open your eyes everything around you is dead..
For the NP psy thst got nearly one shot at 37k hp well chances are you were in black voodoo and didn't/ couldn't have your psy will up so the sin got there chance and took it...

Well I am glad that the dev's don't act on nerf requests. Especially ones not thought out like this.

Go ahead and march over to China with fire and pitchforks, demanding change but it's like I said you can't balance the cash shop. Long ago PWI opened the Pandoras Box and let out the Play to Win and well it is what it is. This is the effect of it.

i dont even...so not having psy-will up results automatically in me getting hit for 37 k? black voodoo?? i have 105 def lvl in black vodoo and 2271 spirit. according to your logic its okay for everyone to die 1 hit to sins.

true sin main talking.

Psychics are particularly vulnerable to one-shots from sins. Black voodoo/white voodoo interactions along with lack of self def buff will always ensure psys get hit harder than almost any other class. It's something you'll have to accept, I'm willing to bet your star chart is offensively oriented as well.

37k while full buffed would mean that he was sparked...even AA classes can get 1-2 shots with a triple spark crit. It's just something you have to watch out for and prepare.

which exactly proves my point. sins are overpowered and imbalanced.

mooglemonger wrote: »

@hoshichan you make it sound like 105 defense levels is alot... I'm sorry that your NP set still isn't enough. I honestly don't know what to say to that. If you knew what spirit the sin had ( inb4 he only had 1000... lolol) your 2200 ish spirit might not been enough against it, as in you did not have a greater amount more then what they had and in that case well.... that happens. There could still be people out there that are in your gear league, maybe even slighty better geared. Neuma Portal isn't the all deciding factor. There's NP players on my server and in this point in time they are not any kind of threat...

which exactly proves my point. sins are overpowered and imbalanced.
(and no, YOU made it sound 2271 spirit and 105 def lvl is nothing, if i die 1 hit, 90% of the server does.)

mooglemonger

@hoshichan you are clearly twisting what I am saying. I'm sorry but 105 defense levels is not much. My full diety sin can get 103 defense levels with defense level daggers and o malley blessing. However if said sin has close to your spirit (or exceeds it) then your 2271 spirit and there spirit more or less cancel each other out. You won't be able to rely on your spirit for defense, neither can said sin for relying on their spirit to help in attacking you. He got you at the right place at the right time. I'm sorry but blackvoodoo and no psy will/ genie mixed with their possible spark and willsurge made that hit possible. Just a bad luck for you as he got lucky on you.

That's all Im going to say on this as I know that sounds like a case of luck as a sin is a 'luck' based class. Who knows maybe said sin had Double r/aed Candleflame card set. That compared to NP un r/aed is about 15% or so less stats so as NP gets you ahead but its not putting you in another league unless ofc its r/aed once or twice...

capnk

I'd like to see the calc on that. Perfect defense level r8 is what, 40 defense levels? +15 for Omalleys, +10 for primal passive. You have 38 defense levels on gear not including shards?

dregenfox

hoshichan wrote: »

dregenfox wrote: »

hoshichan wrote: »

mooglemonger wrote: »

@bizzah @aradya6793 Actually my post was thought out and I believe neither one of you have an endgame assassin or duskblade. It's not do w/e with your eyes closed and faceroll the keyboard and when you open your eyes everything around you is dead..
For the NP psy thst got nearly one shot at 37k hp well chances are you were in black voodoo and didn't/ couldn't have your psy will up so the sin got there chance and took it...

Well I am glad that the dev's don't act on nerf requests. Especially ones not thought out like this.

Go ahead and march over to China with fire and pitchforks, demanding change but it's like I said you can't balance the cash shop. Long ago PWI opened the Pandoras Box and let out the Play to Win and well it is what it is. This is the effect of it.

i dont even...so not having psy-will up results automatically in me getting hit for 37 k? black voodoo?? i have 105 def lvl in black vodoo and 2271 spirit. according to your logic its okay for everyone to die 1 hit to sins.

true sin main talking.

Psychics are particularly vulnerable to one-shots from sins. Black voodoo/white voodoo interactions along with lack of self def buff will always ensure psys get hit harder than almost any other class. It's something you'll have to accept, I'm willing to bet your star chart is offensively oriented as well.

37k while full buffed would mean that he was sparked...even AA classes can get 1-2 shots with a triple spark crit. It's just something you have to watch out for and prepare.

which exactly proves my point. sins are overpowered and imbalanced.

mooglemonger wrote: »

@hoshichan you make it sound like 105 defense levels is alot... I'm sorry that your NP set still isn't enough. I honestly don't know what to say to that. If you knew what spirit the sin had ( inb4 he only had 1000... lolol) your 2200 ish spirit might not been enough against it, as in you did not have a greater amount more then what they had and in that case well.... that happens. There could still be people out there that are in your gear league, maybe even slighty better geared. Neuma Portal isn't the all deciding factor. There's NP players on my server and in this point in time they are not any kind of threat...

which exactly proves my point. sins are overpowered and imbalanced.
(and no, YOU made it sound 2271 spirit and 105 def lvl is nothing, if i die 1 hit, 90% of the server does.)

Against deity sin you're better off stacking p. def rather than def levels. 105 isn't going to do much vs sins who can get 240+ attack levels. P. def is the one weakness of psys and it's something you'll have to work around.

I can agree though that sins don't have any real weaknesses and are pretty unbalanced. Their only real disadvantage is that focused mind doesn't last forever, but I wouldn't call that an exploitable weakness...they have plenty of ways to wait that duration out, or simply just stealth.

We all know sins aren't getting nerfed though. It's something everyone has to deal with.

mooglemonger

@capnk Im talking with my rank9 armour. Switch out my rank9 weapon for my rank8 recast weapon of 32 defense levels and use a o malley blessing so to recap:

R9s3 armour set bonus=25
R9s3 armour stats=6
CoM= 2
WoA=2
Adversity ring=5
Stars destiny=3
R8r daggers=32
O malley blessing=15
Candleflame set=2
Level 2 cosmic blessing=4
Badge of the cube: defiance=8

That gives me a total of 104 defense levels. Sorry I lied, guess I should look at my stats more often. I was off by 1 defense level. Point is if your end game 100 ish defense levels isn't much. It is easy to obtain.

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dregenfox

aradya6793 wrote: »

105 def levels is not much... lmao...

a sin player needs to play any other class to see how ape$h1t his class went

i know quite a lot braindead players that are still able to land solokills because they are playing assassin class,
if they would've been playing anything else that needs a little cunning, they would get laughed at and trashed

the fact that with next patch a sin will need 2 life hunters to charge up a 7x base damage elimination, (f0cking insanity)which is basically a oneshot button, means that if other classes won't have tools to at least zerkcrit consistently and raise up the damage (because there is nothing else you can do, you cannot control sins), we will see a lot of players complain and perhaps quit.

the moment you face a sin as any other class and the sin at least pairs you in gears,
in that moment you as another class it's a struggle for your survival, you just start to blow cooldowns defensively, then when your cooldowns are done you are dead...
don't tell me any other class cept perhaps db if you start spam CCs pray god that they will go past tidal, or raise the zerkcrit DPS, because actually duskblades have better DPS potential than assassins, except that duskblades can be controlled and even quite easily, that denies their DPS...
back to point don't tell me you as any other class that gets targeted by a sin, still keep an offensive behaviour like stand and trade damage... you just kite leap heal switch to def level gears apo genie damage redux w.e.... unless you got a death wish

sin it's the only class that with just their mere presence forces targets into defensive playstyle without actually having to do anything special...

call it balance...

personal experience, full deity portal psy with 100k base damage hits me for 10ks on SoD buffs, random vit sin pop from stealth and leave me with random 30k on my damage log.... #balance​​

I'm really not seeing this from my experiences in pvp. Sin damage can be high if they get zerks, but so is any other dps class. The real issue is their ridiculous stealth abilities and status avoidance. A psychic/wiz/seeker that's left free to spark + unload dps is going to do way more damage than a sin...problem is that no one except sins are free to just mash the keyboard and win.

Let a seeker unload combos on you without resistance and you'll find they're just as deadly as a sin...they still suck in the current cc meta because they spend half the time being CC'ed.

Your last statement also feels kinda biased...How can you compare a NP deity psy's damage that was non-crit to a vit sin that got a lucky spark zerk-crit?

Look at the logs posted here...everything looks standard until the NP psy (Nemki) just comes and one-shots me for 120% of my health from 25m away. That's not an outlier? That's not op? I had 139 def levels when he hit me.





The only difference is, in an equal-numbers pvp battle that psy gets focused 24/7 with SOG's and CC's and becomes nonfactor. That's why the psy camps SZ and pretends to be afk until everyone is engaged and busy and then comes out 10 minutes later to one-shot people before he gets noticed. You could call it "Nemki's ghetto stealth". If it was a NP sin, he'd be doing similar dps, except he doesn't give a sht about tactics or surprise because no one can see him coming anyway or keep him CC'ed.

Playing a sin means playing a one-player game with no meaningful interaction with other players, because the sin just ignores all game mechanics.

What do players do to nuke bosses in pve? They spam triple spark and frontload everything without worry while the boss is not aggro'ed. Does that kind of gameplay sound familiar? Yep, it's exactly what a sin does in pvp. That's what makes sins OP. PWI needs to nerf tidal to the ground.

PS: This is the same issue I have with Paralyze.

keihan007#7641

The problem with sins dmg compared to say psys is sin has several quick multihit skills, plenty of CC they can lock with. In short they dont really need to work to break these OP 2 tick def charms while most other classes DPS is cut significantly by them. Thats the reason I have stood a while against some NP psys meanwhile non NP sins drop me way quicker.

The other issue is how impossible sin is to pin down. Tidal, stealths, ulti stealth that cant be tracked by any means. In short they got way too many gtfo buttons at their disposal on top of tidal, which is just broken mechanic.

Unknown

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sin20

After barbs getting deaden i feel like we need something else that will balance our class really well , i feel some kind of a skill that has a 95% chance to make us imune to any status effect for 3 mins with a cd of 3mins and 5 sec would be a step in right direction and would balance the barbs really well in the current meta.