PVE versus PVP: Which requires more playing skills?

chary

Player versus player.

1v1 is boring as ****, but I main a demon support cleric so what the **** do I know. ​​

hiitsmeguys

Player versus environment.

PVE takes way more skill, avoiding the lava and fire ball in Flowsilver is the true test of skill.

bosk

Player versus environment.

To those who have awesome PvP skills and think they can rock PvE in every case, I propose a simple challenge.

Go to Abaddon, solo Puppet, go back in time, solo Mask of Grief, find the Puppets (4) and solo them.

You will need at least one other person in your squad to open the past after killing puppet, but that should not be hard (I just use an Alt). Also, you might be able to skip Mask of Grief and go straight to the four puppets. (I don't know if that is possible, but if you can't get past MoG give it a try.)

Nothing about this challenge is particularly hard, but it requires PvE skill. If you can do it without dying and without using Iron Guard or the like apothecary items, then Kudos.

This is of course Weekly Abaddon, and it is intended to be done with a squad of as many as 10, but it can be soloed if you have the PvE skills necessary to do so, and as a PvE-centric player I find it rather challenging (and fun) to make this run a few times each week. (I invite people to join me for the final boss so they can get the quest without the grief.)


Another one that is fun to solo is Weekly Seat of Torment (with the concession of getting someone else to destroy any tower immune to your attacks, but even that can be circumvented in PvE if you know how). This is not as rewarding, however, so I don't do it as often. (Other players have to be present for three boss kills to get the reward, so it is a lot more bother.)


Another PvE challenge is Heaven Fall Temple. I don't do it much now, as the rewards seem pathetic for the amount of time involved, but I again think it showcases the difference between PvE and PvP game style.


Good Luck and Have Fun.


If you found that there was no challenge in these, as being a PvP pro completely prepared you for this challenge, let me know. I am NOT a PvP savvy player, so I have no idea if PvP skills will be adequate to the task or not. I just think this challenge would be a fair way to see if there is a difference or not.


Cheers!

chary

Player versus player.

I got like 13th overall for clerics on Temple rankings last I bothered checking while being completely the wrong build for it. Is that good enough for your pve aptitude standings?​​

demansfairy

Player versus player.

@bosk ppl do Abba like that ever 2x for farming SoD, I can do it on a psy and SB no problem without IG (especially SB since it has a pet)

On the whole mass vs 1v1 debate, idk I've had 1v1s last longer than entire TWs or open world mass pvp. I think squad vs squad pvp would require more scale since it's small enough were you need to coordinate with your squad and call targets. But as for mass pvp, after 6 years of TW and open world, it just devolves to a tab target fest too often, maybe you're having more luck than I am in that department. Of course it doesn't help that I (along with a large amount of my guild mates) need to turn character models off for mass pvp in order to even play at that point due to the frame rate drop and skill lag, while that issue doesn't occur in squad vs squad fights as often.

dblazen1

Player versus player.

bosk wrote: »

To those who have awesome PvP skills and think they can rock PvE in every case, I propose a simple challenge.

Go to Abaddon, solo Puppet, go back in time, solo Mask of Grief, find the Puppets (4) and solo them.
That's easy senpai.

You will need at least one other person in your squad to open the past after killing puppet, but that should not be hard (I just use an Alt). Also, you might be able to skip Mask of Grief and go straight to the four puppets. (I don't know if that is possible, but if you can't get past MoG give it a try.)
But mask gives those pots, why would you skip it

Nothing about this challenge is particularly hard, but it requires PvE skill. If you can do it without dying and without using Iron Guard or the like apothecary items, then Kudos.
Easy as well senpai. Just spark on mask, do your stuff, time another spark just before the moment he throws you the damage immune / massive skill damage buff on you so you have spark and that buff on you and slap his ****, 1m+ hits for days.

This is of course Weekly Abaddon, and it is intended to be done with a squad of as many as 10, but it can be soloed if you have the PvE skills necessary to do so, and as a PvE-centric player I find it rather challenging (and fun) to make this run a few times each week. (I invite people to join me for the final boss so they can get the quest without the grief.)
The intention of 10 man squad is probably more spawned due to china not having our insane power creep, so it holds (or held) better there, in our version it's not that hard

Another one that is fun to solo is Weekly Seat of Torment (with the concession of getting someone else to destroy any tower immune to your attacks, but even that can be circumvented in PvE if you know how). This is not as rewarding, however, so I don't do it as often. (Other players have to be present for three boss kills to get the reward, so it is a lot more bother.)
Is also not that hard senpai, where queen is the most tedious because of damage immune items you should get beforehand

Another PvE challenge is Heaven Fall Temple. I don't do it much now, as the rewards seem pathetic for the amount of time involved, but I again think it showcases the difference between PvE and PvP game style.
Time/reward investment is not worth doing heaven fall temple over again and again.


Good Luck and Have Fun.


If you found that there was no challenge in these, as being a PvP pro completely prepared you for this challenge, let me know. I am NOT a PvP savvy player, so I have no idea if PvP skills will be adequate to the task or not. I just think this challenge would be a fair way to see if there is a difference or not.


Cheers!

That being said, my main focus is/was also PvE, because I never felt too much charm for PvP. PvP has a few types of players:
1. God complex morons
2. MUH SET RULES ARE HOW WE ARE SUPPOSED TO FIGHT GAIS
3. MUH RPK IS BAD
4. If someone kills you it's because they are uber1337 awesome, but if you kill them it's because:
* they were lagging
* you were lucky
* they let you win
* MUH LUCK MAN

The times I did try pvp were boring shitfests, as I always said that if you are white named you are free game, I don't need your consent to slap your sorry **** and I don't expect someone to ask me either if I would be white named. I wouldn't grief you into the ground and leave you alone if you are busy with something like quests, but if you're just going to stand around in known PK areas (like west outskirts) then it's ones own problem.
But yeah, that's where you get the "MUH RPK IS BAD".​​

bosk

Player versus environment.

chary said:

I got like 13th overall for clerics on Temple rankings last I bothered checking while being completely the wrong build for it. Is that good enough for your pve aptitude standings?​​

If by "your" you mean my judgement, I have no idea. The question really is for you. Do you feel your PvP approach/skill-set was more than adequate to handle the PvE requirements?


My first time against the absolute final boss in HFT was quite challenging. I died several times. (I was doing this only a few hours after it came available and I was not interested in finding a guide or talking to other people who had done it ... I wanted to figure it out for myself.) My PvP-ish approach was to hit the boss as hard as I could, and use as many defense skills, apothecary and genie defenses as I could to tank the massive damage I was receiving. This approach had worked fine for the easier version of this boss 9 rooms prior. For me at least, this time it was not enough. (It was close though, so for a while I thought I just needed to time things better or have a bit stronger gear.)

Then, I discovered the relationship between the re-spawning mob and the boss and how the mob could be used to protect me during the boss' massive damage attacks. For my thinking this is the difference between PvP skill and PvE skill. In PvE you often need to know things that are completely useless in PvP and in a similar sense, PvP strengths are often useless in PvE situations.


If you only play the game for the PvP component, then learning all the nuances of PvE play is probably pointless. You can usually just get together with a strong squad and bulldozer your way through practically any instance (there are some obvious exceptions). Spending the time to unlock the tricks and advantages of PvE versions would likely be unappealing and just appear to be a waste of time.

On the other hand, if the PvE component of the game is of interest to you, there is a very large amount of complexity that goes otherwise ignored. Another example, a cleric using Seal of God on Auregon when he is protected by the Ghost Dragons. You don't need to do this. It only speeds things up by a few seconds. And at one time almost no one did it. But now, it is very common.


As I do not know PvP all that well (I can play my class okay, but that's about it) I cannot really comment as to how much skill is actually required considering all the classes. Perhaps if I was more skilled I would fair better in NW and TW, but I don't think so. When I die it is usually because 10-20 or more different attackers all targeted me at once and my damage reducing apothecary or skills were on cool down. Or a Wizard or Psychic caught me napping and one-shot me because I did not anticipate their attack in time and put up a defense. But it's never really much more complex than that. I am sure I could improve, getting better at timing the use of one skill or another, but the nature of PvP skills does not seem to be all that complicated. At least not for me.

PvE seems much more complex but at the same time much more forgiving. Do something wrong or be too slow in PvP and you pay for it right away. Mess up in PvE and you can often recover. (Not always of course, go attack Gaurnob without killing 40 mobs first and see how well you fare.)


So perhaps PvP is a simpler environment requiring only a subset of the knowledge appropriate to your class but also more precise responses and timing while PvE is a complex environment requiring more knowledge about the instances (traps, mobs, bosses, etc.) but does not require as much reactionary aptitude.


Just a thought.

Cheers!

tuttle

Player versus player.

I came in here just to see if this was a real poll, such a stupid question to be quite honest.

bosk

Player versus environment.

We seem to agree on the points regarding Weekly Abaddon. It is fairly easy if you know a few tricks, but I have been in squads who had no idea what to do with MoG for example, so after a few fails, I would ask them to just let me solo it.

dblazen1 said:

That being said, my main focus is/was also PvE, because I never felt too much charm for PvP. PvP has a few types of players:

1. God complex morons

2. MUH SET RULES ARE HOW WE ARE SUPPOSED TO FIGHT GAIS

3. MUH RPK IS BAD

4. If someone kills you it's because they are uber1337 awesome, but if you kill them it's because:

* they were lagging

* you were lucky

* they let you win

* MUH LUCK MAN



The times I did try pvp were boring shitfests, as I always said that if you are white named you are free game, I don't need your consent to slap your sorry **** and I don't expect someone to ask me either if I would be white named. I wouldn't grief you into the ground and leave you alone if you are busy with something like quests, but if you're just going to stand around in known PK areas (like west outskirts) then it's ones own problem.

But yeah, that's where you get the "MUH RPK IS BAD".​​

I really hate RPK. It makes sense if you are White Name and wandering around West Arch or Silver Pool, but too many players abuse it.

I left LC server when I was level 34 after I had spent ages just trying to farm a few items for quests but could not get even the simplest quest done because there was always some showboat who was 50 or more levels higher than me killing me before I could even tell they were in the area.

I do not consider the ability to TAB + 1-Shot someone 1/100th your strength in any way shape or form a "skill".


Cheers!

chary

Player versus player.

Your idea of a pvp server is about 3 years out of date.​​

magicsabre

If your character is overpowered due to high level, cash shopped equipment or dis-balance of game, then pve does not require any skill. This is why many those, who yet play pwi used characters of some bugged classes to farm their gear and levels. More, most of the characters in pwi can't complete quests without high level "aids" in squad with them, because they have not skills to play pve.