PVE versus PVP: Which requires more playing skills?

kittyempressa

So, Kitty went to NW today to try her wizzie's PVP-potential for once. Long ago, before RBs and stuff came, Kitty had another wizzie she was quite strong with, 1-shotting weaker groups of people with well-targeted nukes as TT90-geared T3+6 weaponed wizzie, doing about 12-20k hits. Today, the wizzie nukes hit like 800 dmg max. as SS I, T3+10-weaponed full T3 G10 phys. sharded wizzie with maxed dmg. passive. And taking 14k min. hits from literally everyone. So Kitty started seriously wondering what the people saying "PVP requires more skill than PVE" think as Kitty can't even hope to tick most peoples' charms in PVP no matter what she did while Kitty's wiz tends to be quite strong-ish in PVE.

Kitty lists some pros and cons about both.

PVE
+There's many buffs and debuffs that only work in PVE
+In PVE, squads tend to go for one kill together and even one bad debuffer who doesn't know how to debuff can weaken squad's potential a lot (usually best seen at failed Drake nukes in FSPJ)
+At the extreme, even highest-geared players can get smashed rather quick if they derp some survival-stuff
+There's lots of boss mechanisms that can be lethal/make things take a loooong time if unaware/incapable of dealing with them.
+A bad/good CCer can make a difference between squadwipe and success at bigger pulls (especially if speaking of stuff like full SoT/QSM pulls)
+Spirit is a very minor effect in PVE, doesn't really do any noticeable difference
-In today's PVE, CCs are mainly needed to kill groups of mobs but otherwise pretty much useless
-With all the passives and r9rr+10s lots of people have, most stuff can be mown down by squad facerolling their keyboards and dying to basic stuff can be pretty much impossible
-There's many PVP-only skills (though most of them would be useless in PVE anyway)

PVP
+Players' movements aren't as predictable as mobs so squadwork tends to take a lot of practise to become smooth
+Stuff like CCs and well-timed purges are quite essential to know to get tankier players down
+1vs1, it's can be hard to get through all the survival stoofs in equal fight(defense charms, HP charm, defensive genie, survival skills...)
+Surviving the LA-DPS+CC classes(Sin, DB) can be difficult as AA-class so if they get first strike, surviving and killing them takes skill
+PVP-only skills
-It's very rare for PVP-fights to be really equal as spirit, gears, cards, passives and star chart all affect the damages a lot. Especially spirit.
-Due to aforementioned reason, you just need to have one or two of those 5 stronger than your opponent's and your victory ish guaranteed with 0 skill involved. (Spirit alone tends to cause such differences in damage that one just simply tickles while getting 1-shot if not maxed).
-Due to classes' "rock-scissors-paper"-like balance, one ish pretty much always in disadvantage if not fighting against same type of class
-You just don't simply solo a tanky class in most cases.
-You rarely use most PVP-only skills as their chi costs are somewhat high and they're situational
-Most peoples play very predictably in PVP so lots of time it's just about who has a better tactic to do an oh-so-unpredictable killing move

Kitty's sorry about another "Pay/Daily2Win Q.Q"-thread but she's seriously interested what the PVP-pros failing in PVE are thinking? ('cause if PVE was so much easier than PVP, why they fail so hard at it?)
As well as these people who claim "Kitty's fail 'cause she's mainly not interested in PVP, PVE-skills don't matter"? (As if Kitty had any point in PVPing 'cause due to those 5 non-skill-related factors having turned her from good PVPer to less-than-tickler and thus her PVP-skills have simply no effect outside CCing as long as possible before 1-shot...)

Soo, your opinions/comments/rants on the subject, please?​​

jsxshadow

Player versus player.

Lol, seriously. With the gear we have atm PvE requires 0 skill whatsoever. Even PvP only requires skill when its 1on1. Mass PvP does require a bit of skill but doesnt exceed basic attention.

Besides..I call it impossible for someone to be good at PvP when they fail hard in PvE or at least not on my standards xD

dagoddominator

Player versus player.

PVP only seems skill-less when there is a huge gear gap. PVE requires very basic skills with few exceptions. refines/shards/cards(spirit) ALWAYS mitigate skill.

Unknown

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dblazen1

Player versus player.

PvE in PWI is a joke.
So is PvP, but less than PvE. That also depends of course who you're up against.

What PvE has become is:
In regards of mobs:
1. Pull mobs
2. AOE said mobs
3. mobs die

In regards of bosses:
1. Go to boss
2. Start macro
3. in case needed: go to damage immune spot (FSP bosses)
4. ???
5. profit​​

demansfairy

Player versus player.

Pvp by far, problem is you're comparing big gear gap pvp to closer gear gap in pve. At near equal gear a 1v1 fight can easily last an hour or so with both playera trying to study the other to learn when their defenses are down while trying to keep themselves alive. In pve, even at lower gear it tends to come down to "hey let's all debuff at the same time and if it doesnt die then remember to move when the big flashing letters on the screen tell you to" which really isn't that complicated.

Individual skill needed is almost non existant in pve, though it is an issue when someone in your squad either lags out (best case) and doesn't seem to have higher thought processes (usual case), of course the kick button exists if they seem more trouble then they are worth.

I'd compare pve needed skill to mass pvp level of skill needed, as in you need to tell your squad "hey, this thing I have targeted? Debuff and nuke the hell out of it". And even then at least you need to make a kill order in mass pvp based on who is more of a threat/easy to take out quickly.

Side note: I don't know why you say spirit is meaningless in pve, every 40 spirit is 1% more damage and ~1% less damage, even with no cards, neumas, star chart, or sockets a player is sitting at 879 (?) Base spirit which is about 20% more damage death and less damage taken, which is a hell of a lot.

darkonome

Player versus player.

PvE - learn an instance once, learn the bosses, one shot mechanics, you can do it on any class with basically any gear depending on whether you are support or DD. Typically once you've cleared an instance a few times you're good to go.

PvP -

1v1 is highly class based/biased, yes we're talking about equal or close to equal gears, as any conversation about PvP should be, if you're into 1v1 you should play a good 1v1 class. Requires an in depth knowledge of your own class and your opponents. Typically @ West gate.

Squad vs Squad - requires in my opinion the most amount of PvP skill/experience, it's knowing who you need to be attacking/locking down, who you need to protect, moving from one target to another, and generally playing your role (depends on your class) and working with your squad. Takes a while to get used to each others play styles and is really fun when on ventrilo, assist attacking, calling out threats, heals, squad plays etc. Rare to experience, usually requires set up. Can experience this quite often in a Territory Wars setting.

Mass PvP - tab and fire, CCs, a bit more forgiving than Squad vs Squad, you can basically go nuts and fire at will, drop AoEs, kill stuff, can run into a few isolated 1v1s but usually at the expense of the greater goal - typically @ Nation Wars.

For me the most fun PvP is balanced squad vs squad, playing an archer, 1v1 is almost pointless, Mass PvP gets boring fast, usually due to gear disparity. Only issue with squad vs squad is that it is rare so you have to set it up yourself, I've organised a weekly faction event where we have our own PK, had a lot of fun this weekend and looking forward to more.

kurisukotze

Player versus player.

Tbh Idm both PVE or PVP. But think of Pirate King and PVP server lol not only that I hate geting attacked during dailies if I wanted to pk id go west/north or sp depending not get picked on during dailies or by some1 who dislike me( and yes we will ALWAYS have that some1 pking alts or weaker toons durng dailies)

kurisukotze

Player versus player.

Also a note for Pirate King meaning most of us will hit Pirate King and afk in safezone not to get killed meaning it would take even longer for it to die xD

kurisukotze

Player versus player.

and as for skills PvP ofc need more ( sin who 3 spark and stealth kill is not really skill imo)

npc15

Player versus player.

I agree with everything that has been said above. I've hit the point where PVE has become pull, aoe, aggro boss, hit auto-cultivate, nap for a bit while boss dies.

PVP meanwhile is a lot harder. I can't compete with a lot of people 1v1, but if I really concentrate I can still make a difference in mass PVP but it takes a lot more skill to do so

kittyempressa

Player versus environment.

Well, Kitty's kinda of point was that on our server we have tons of BMs with no idea of HF-timing nor stunning, seekers having no clue about stances/shatters and vortexing everything, venos not using Myriads, mystics using Befuddling creepers in squad of venos etc... more often r9rr's doing these fails than others, in Kitty's experience and those making even easy boss kills take effin long (Kitty's been in T3-squads that have killed bosses a lot faster than some r9rr-squads). Not to mention r9rr-squads with none capable of doing axes at Toad...

And some of these same r9rr's keep saying that Kitty fails and whatever she says ish non-sense 'cause she's 1-shot and doesn't want to PK (as she's T3+6 and Kitty does kill equal-gears more often than not). So, what's the logic? Someone tell pweaseeeee...​​

standoffishman

Player versus player.

PvP has a much higher skill ceiling. It's far less predictable, has a much wider range of skills that are actually worth using for most classes and on a good day has much more complex squad play.

It's far more gear reliant but that's mostly because it's not a joke in terms of difficulty like PvE. A wizard with full end game gear will still hit at least four times as hard as you do in PvE if they give a **** at all.

There are a few players with varying levels of decent PvP gear that aren't great at PvE. Mostly however it's because the game gives them no real reason to care.

dingo488

Both are quite limited in how hard they are...

There's currently no PvE instance thats designed for the level of gear everyone has, so its very hard to experience this as difficult, as most people are pretty much invulnerable to anything going on in PvE. That said there's also not enough mechanics in PvE that punish mistakes.

1v1 PvP has become much like playing Pokemon Red on your gameboy, everyone simply does the exact same stuff and then prays for good RNG (crits/not missing/certain skills proccing). So I would say this is pretty close to the level of difficulty you experience in PvE.

As for mass PvP the same thing applies as it always has, in terms of what skills you use and what not its extremely easy. In terms of reading a situation, seeing openings of which you can put yourself forward to take some risks to take out a larger group of people, I feel like this is the only difficult thing in PWI. Its also the only reason I one day stopped playing my wizard and decided to play BM...As Wizard you dont even get hit, ever, simply because of your ridiculous range, if you can even pay a little bit of attention you can avoid pretty much any threat, and it was just extremely boring for me to play that way, since it was literally like PvE, just spamming sum skills...As melee I find it to be a lot more fun, simply because you are generally always in a pressure situation ^^

But overall the game has always been pretty dumbed down in terms of PvE and PvP, healing is almost irrelevant, there's hardly any skills that can punish mistakes. But that goes for pretty much all F2P MMORPGs, at least in terms of PvP (the PvE in PWI cud be a lot more difficult). Ive only ever played 1 MMORPG where the PvP was legit based on skill alone. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFWvdyCk1Uo.

booker27

demansfairy said:

I'd compare pve needed skill to mass pvp level of skill needed, as in you need to tell your squad "hey, this thing I have targeted? Debuff and nuke the hell out of it".

No offence but sounds like the only mass pvp youve done is either against undergeared people or with a squad that sucks.

1v1 requires less skill than mass pvp because it comes down 1. routine and 2. choosing the right class. In PWI some classes are clearly superior to 1v1 while other are just terrible at it. Take a look at DB and Archer. Classes generally have 1 or 2 kill combos that you need to watch out for. The rest is just a matter of kiting stunning w/e until you wait for your opponent to do their kill combo or your cd is up and do yours until someone does a mistake.

PWI sucks for 1v1 and more often than not the people i see constantly asking for 1v1s are those with the need to prove something. Even funnier there is actually a guy on our server who claims to beat this and that person when in fact its either that he got 1 win out 10 or he never actually beat that person but since there was nobody there to watch the fight he can go claim whatever he wants.

Mass PK and TW require you to be aware of your surrounding, think and react fast to the ever changing situation, spread your skills and cds across a wider range of players, communicate with your team, coordinate with your team, asisst each other and protect each other etc. assuming your team mates are good as well (just like assuming 1v1 with two skilled players) yeah totally pve level skill lol.

Ofc there are those who just hide behind their team mates and barely do anything then claim victory because their team won but that's like 1v1 with someone who outgears you and parties when they win. lol.

zentfamily

Oh, look. Kitty throwing baits on forum now to inform everyone of her ultimate awesome skills no one else has or can dream of ever achieving.

shade13

Player versus player.

kittyempressa wrote: »

as SS I, T3+10-weaponed full T3 G10 phys. sharded wizzie with maxed dmg. passive. And taking 14k min. hits from literally everyone. So Kitty started seriously wondering what the people saying "PVP requires more skill than PVE" think as Kitty can't even hope to tick most peoples' charms in PVP no matter what she did while Kitty's wiz tends to be quite strong-ish in PVE.

Is it just me seeing a contradiction here? "Can't do anything in pvp, but good in pve" results into conclusion that pvp is harder than pve. Doesn't it? ​​

rieihdius

Player versus player.

Well in my opinion PVP requires more skill than PVE mainly because a human being tends to be less predictable than a Boss, mob or a game mechanic that can be learned and memorized (eg: Spark at mushi boss when needed or you'll die, kill a number of mobs on some instances or the boss will one shot you, etc )

The main problem with some people on this game is that they think that "Gear=Skill" this due the great gear imbalance that the game have in pvp. This difference can make some people think that some players are really skilled because a small group or even a single End game player can in some cases decimate a large number of undergeared people.

If someone have a rrr9+12 Full JOSD/Deity Nuema portal with everything else maxed, plus that person is on a squad with support, and lets say this person goes against a bunch of G16 nirvana people or even some r9s with bad refines not maxed... What you think is going to happen?

Some time ago I read someone on another thread saying something like: "Ohh but you need just one purge plus some debuff to drop an end game player, is all about time it well blablabla" it was not the exact same words but it was what he/she was saying.
Well yesterday on Nation Wars there was this end game veno from Da, this person was against 10 to 15 people at some point on a crystal contest, and no it was not 15 vs a squad, it was like 30 vs a squad and from those 30, 15 or more vs the veno...
And the veno was not dying, person was being purged/amped/cursed/stuned/paralized... etc etc...
Now imagine that player carrying a flag
What Im trying to say is that there is a limit on what your skill will allow you to do on pvp if you are way behind on gear, cards, nuemas, primal pasives, etc.

Also and another thing that people should understand, and I think is very important:
Not because a player performs well in PVP will make the person good at PVE, also the same can be seen from the other perspective, a really good PVE player may be seen as bad on PVP either by not knowing how to counter other classes or even because his equipment is not suitable for PVP.

jsxshadow

Player versus player.

The reason why 1on1 does require the most "skill" and not mass is just because you can end up in situations in mass-PvP in which you can be at god-lvl (in terms of skill) and you still cannot win. If this game would have evasion-mechanisms like in other MMORPG and you could actually avoid everything with the right timing then yeah, it would require skill. This is not the case in PWI. Any scenario that could to yourself being unable to do anything requires 0 skill. Its just pure chance. The basic awareness you need is just that. Basic. If people don't even have that then they shouldnt talk about serious PvP.

In 1on1..it is all about outsmarting you enemy. It's not only routing. It's about having several strategies and players that can adapt to a changing playstyle. I, for one, like to change and play around with different genies. that alone changes the whole fight drastically. Anticipation is key here. Know your enemy, his class, your class but also be prepared for an enemy that could change tactics. 1on1s in this game are the scenario with the lowest amount of luck involved (yeah, even for chance classes like barbs) cause you have to compare it to mass. You simply cannot compensate if 3-4 people that all of a sudden attack you from behind cause they raced there to catch you. If they dont come your way then ok, you might win the fight you're currently fighting. Pure Luck. Nothing else. Mass-PvP is fun at times but absolutely random whilst in 1on1 you can always counteract to something that your enemy does. You have 1 target. 1 player's moves to anticipate and he could also anticipate your moves.

I just encountered situiations like "I could've killed you but just now (when I wanted to finish you) a random whatever stuned, slept, paralyzed me and you got away" way too many times.

If you are not a Barb, BM or Mystic just rule out Duskblades from the 1on1 table and everything is fine. Go ahead and rule out Archer as well if you still think they are too weak for 1on1s (which is still bs and comes mostly from unexperienced ppl) and everything is just perfect. I am not going to lie. Some classes have advantages over some other classes. True. BUT it's not even remotely as bad as the random stuffs happening in Mass-PvP-Scenarios. You can always compensate. ALWAYS. With whatever strategy you might need for certain classes. BUT. YOU. CAN...if you can. That is :P

To sum it up: Lose in 1on1s? Try different genies/strategies, pay more attention to your opponent and try again. It will get better, I promise. Mass-PvP is fun? Try beating 10 ppl alone. Or even 2 on equal gears with the possibility of more people joining into the fight at any time WHICH IS NOT FORESEEABLE! GG. In 1on1s you always have a chance, in Mass you can encounter situations in which you dont have the slightest Chance. Go figure.

And for the PvE Part: I wouldnt even bother with anyone that cant even do that right. Seriously. What use does a player have if he fails in both PvE/PvP? Well you can hope for him to be a brainless casher and enjoy **** him with half his gears. Ah reminds me why I love those guys so much (I am dead serious. They might be useless at the first glance but a majority of such ppl is kinda funding this whole game so... GUYS dont be mad plox )

PS: If you want to improve in PvE I have some suggestions. Play all DMC games on the highest difficulty at max Rank and beat all "Souls"-Games without armour, without a weapon and without getting hit. I promise by the lifes of my family. YOU WILL NEVER FAIL AT ANYTHING PVE-RELATED ANYMORE. FOREVER.

chary

Player versus player.

How does beating Hitoshura/Demifiend in DDS1 compare on the PVE totem pole?​​

dingo488

jsxshadow said:

The reason why 1on1 does require the most "skill" and not mass is just because you can end up in situations in mass-PvP in which you can be at god-lvl (in terms of skill) and you still cannot win.

Or perhaps u have a misconception that you are god-lvl, and Hoorah smashing you in cross-server NW opened your eyes, tho you are still in denial thus concluding it must be because mass PvP requires no skills

1v1 PvP is:

Routine (same skills in same order);
Bad class match-ups (some classes simply counter others);
Bad buff match-ups (some classes benefit greatly from fighting self-buffed only, while other classes benefit greatly from full buffed);
Luck (crits/misses/procs);
Experience (as most 1v1s are pure routine, the player with most experience in a certain match-up will know a better routine to use).

None of those are actually difficult things, someone that grinds a lot of 1v1s knows how stuff works better than someone that doesnt, does that make them a better players? Nah.


Mass PvP is:

Class match-ups (Classes like venos/clerics can make it imbalanced);
Chi-management (Not blowing all ur stuff on 1 target but spread out your stuff across multiple people);
Awareness of your surroundings (You are out of position, your opponent is out of position);
Teamwork (Ability to work together with people);
Managing cooldowns (Much like managing chi, using your big cooldowns and most impactful skills properly);
Protecting allies (Realising a certain level of threat on your allies and thus instead of attacking/killing someone, choosing to help your ally stay alive < something that you with your attitude are completely useless at).

Most of these things can be learned by doing lots of mass PvP, to an extent, but a lot of it just comes down to overall skill and ability. Most of these things you are very much lacking in, which is probably why you find mass PvP so boring... If you didnt treat yourself like an invaluable god and instead tried to play with people, maybe you would improve so you didnt have to complain here about how mass PvP sucks

freygin

Player versus player.

PvP and PvE both need understanding of the game's mechanics, PvE is easier because it's a fixed environment, after a few runs of an instance ppl should get the gist of it, even in Qsm where mobs have lots of different random labels on how they'll behave in different runs.

PvE is much easier, have a few runs of an instance or learned the boss mechanics and it'll be a walk in the park everytime.

PvP is a lot different, there are 1v1 , squad vs squad and mass pvp, also lots of wild variables on them, gears, skill, luck, and more in non 1v1 like squad compositions, team work, and commando. 1v1 is easier because we'll be fighting against one skillset even though one skillset is also what we'll be having, having a few genies with different skillset will help a lot. In squad/mass pvp, it's a lot trickier, we'll be facing against random situations, attack assist will help reducing opponent's number and buy time before they'll respawn and get back in the fight. Attack assist is important, being hit by more than one class with different debuffs will make even the tankiest target squishy. Imo having voice chat is key in non 1v1 pvp setups.

mulier

sad thing about pwi - neither pve nor pvp require skill (at least not to any extend) - games so broken and unbalanced ... theres really no point of speaking of skills (just gear gaps as an example)

comparing the pvp aspect to other mmos out there - its getting quite obvious, that pwi pvp is broken beyond repair. when same lvl ppl can havbe a difference of 50k hp , 30k defenmses and 40-50k atk ... theres no point of speaking of a plain playing field, and thus no sense in speaking of skill in mastering the game. yes there might be ppl more skilled than others... but the extend is sooo limited... it hurts

pve aspect of the game can be done by 1 person on multiple accounts ... that kinda speaks for itself.


pvp, well.... used to be good .... now its really bad (wouzld be okish , if EVERYONE and his mother would be in r9rrr +10 or 11 with maxed passives and good card sets..... but thats not the case at all ( atleast not on dawnglory- we got alot of r9 , but we got alot of g16 and below aswell)

another aspect . zerk and purify ---- potentially dealing 4x dmg in a single blow...... luck based pvp, is always bad

jsxshadow

Player versus player.

chary said:

How does beating Hitoshura/Demifiend in DDS1 compare on the PVE totem pole?​​

Ha, YA! All SMT games also greatly improve your PvE ability. You are damn right there!

@dingo488 you are talking about 1on1s as if you actually have experience there but thats obviously not the case. If I fight people that dont adjust to me style of playing then ofc I will win the fights to 100%. That's no challange whatsoever, but its still skill/experience related somewhat. If you have a player that constantly tries to outplay you by changing strategies..hell no. Thats not easy. I also dont mind same class vs same class scenarios. Actually I prefer them the most. Cause then there is no excuse, just skill (altho I admit Barb vs Barb really boils down to just luck, the one with the most para luck wins). It is also skill to take into account the chances of purify spell, crits, chances of CC, etc...

Look at my xNW and all...do I look like I have any trouble in mass especially when I get supported by my squad? xDD You still don't understand that it is also completely luck based to even find people that you can rely on for stuff like that. You might as well end up with useless nubs and then? Having to rely on others is the furthest away from personal skill as it can be. On equal gears 10 awesome players will wreck 5 awesome players and 5 nubs easily on same gears in a 10v10 scenario. Again, so much personal skill needed wow. Who cares if you can play well together. The only thing that matters if you can do it on your own as well cause you might as well get just carried by the others which is definitly the case with you.

IF we get beat by Hoorah then it's because my old friends are there. Not you. So many people here and in Hoorah as well just laugh at you and you don't even notice. I never said I am at god level Skill but you are surely acting like you are. Actually I think of myself as the absolute basic. The level of skill that everyone must have at least. How boring would it be to be the very best. I want challanges. I wanna improve and I wanna fight the best of the best. All of that is what you cannot have in Mass-PvP.

You play a vit skilled BM and actually think of yourself as any good? Cause playing a BM in mass is hard ya? Whilst all you need to do is paralyze the main Target and maybe HF it while also being unable to be killed by others due to constant psy buffs and outgearing them. WOW. Such skill. Anyone and there mother could do that. You just play like that cause its convinient for you. Cause its easy. Just let me tell you that. My NW Squad vs yours: If you dont use psy buffs on any other char then your Psys then you will not stand a chance. The reason why you guys capture the flag is because of these buffs. Nothing else.

Anyone that uses psy buffs in mass is not allowed to talk about skill ever (even tho you dont use them too many times, but alot of ppl in your squad do =P). Heck ANYONE that uses psybuffs in any kind of pvp shouldnt talk about skill. Use them, I dont mind xD but dont feel great cause you win solely cause of them.

Again, before critizising me. Show me just one situation in your latest xNW vid in which you actually pull something off due to skill and not only cause of simple gear advantage. Come, do it.

1on1 is the only scenario that only requires personal skill. All other factors for mass are just random and achieved by chance and luck alone, even the people you fight with. I dont know why this is so hard to understand. Are you able to comprehend the concept of chances and odds?

Heck Crisis could win the xTW Season (and we most likely will) but I wouldn't be proud of that. Am I proud of any fought NW? No, but its fun sometimes. "We just wrecked 30 ppl as only 10 ppl, wow, we are so good!" No! One way or another this is just random BS, nothing to be proud of. Something to get entertainment out of yeah, maybe. Nothing else. Get real.

freygin

Player versus player.

Zerk itself isn't that broken, but when it stacks with crit, it becomes broken. Dealing 4x dmg in a single blow , luck based or not, it is bad, because it might proc while also being tangling mired and it hurts and the DPH is super huge when that happens.

Zerkcrit still hurts even at capped physical defense which is 95%, at 1x dmg it'll only deal 5% of damage, but when zerkcrit x4, 95% reduction becomes 80% because 5% x 4=20% dmg. 95% reduction equals to 79317 P.Def value, while 80% = 16700 P.Def. Look at how broken it is. Even for a wizard, a dph class, with spark+undine still needs a bit of an effort to create a situation for their DPH to reach highest dmg possible, zerkcrit classes can have it at anytime they get lucky. Imo Zerkcrit should only proc to heavy armored classes because not only they have high p def but also higher hp pool.

Purify was broken but since they introduced a new stun mechanic, purify becomes less OP.

keihan007#7641

Joe starting another forum war cause he is such a special little snowflake. Only idiot, yes idiot, will claim 1vs1 requires more skill than mass, where there is so much more things to keep track of. Mass just requires more skill by default, you can argue all you want against that point but you know you are wrong.

Yes, mass requires bit different set of skills than 1vs1 but it doesnt mean its any easier. You have far less time to react in mass, you have far wider variety of situations coming at your way and you can choose from far wider range of options yourself. It simply takes more from a player to be effective in mass than it does in 1vs1.

Ps. Everybody expects Crisis to win, the timezone advantage is just massive when other major factions are going to be struggling for numbers to fight X amount of wars at once. Not to mention other factions are likely gonna miss some major factors due how early its for Muricans.

jsxshadow

Player versus player.

Whats to miss on the simplest and most obvious of points. I hate to repeat myself but here goes:

IN MASS YOU CAN ENCOUTER SITUATIONS IN WHICH YOU CAN DO NOTHING. IN 1on1s that doesnt happen. Period. Anything else is just random nonesense. Why is that so hard to understand?

Unknown

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testxvi

Player versus player.

1v1 can be random too, it's just different things that are important in the fight.
I've seen 2 bms fight 1v1, one of the bms the stun and hf would go off every time, every single time, while the other miss or failed the stun, pretty much every single time. In mass it's usually not fatal to miss/not proc a skill, while it can be a lot of times in 1v1. In mass you just have others to back you up in case you are out of luck (or if you simply sux lol) but that doesnt mean it doesnt require any skills at all, and just being on the winning side doesnt necessary means you are a skilled player. You can just easier "get away with it" in mass - so harder to judge maybe?

I think it's just different skills that is needed for 1v1 and mass, and people are always better at one thing than another. Neither require more skill - they require different skills.​​

dingo488

superfedee said:

@dingo488 why bbb shadowsedge and enviouz have 56k sf psy buffs in freaking nation wars? i smell carebearz

Dirty tryhards! Thats so embarrasing

I tryhard in PvE www.youtube.com/watch?v=iikkcJ_LyPk.

keihan007#7641

jsxshadow said:

Whats to miss on the simplest and most obvious of points. I hate to repeat myself but here goes:

IN MASS YOU CAN ENCOUTER SITUATIONS IN WHICH YOU CAN DO NOTHING. IN 1on1s that doesnt happen. Period. Anything else is just random nonesense. Why is that so hard to understand?

Certain matchups between classes you encounter situations where you can nothing, same as your "argument" bout mass, comprende?

Generally being unable to do anything is a result of completely uneven sides, which is idiotic argument. Or being unable to recognize ones limits and being out of position for example. Sure, there are situations where you could theoretically get rekt in even PK no matter if you played it perfectly. But they are extremely rare and more often than not perfect play would result in your side winning the PK if opposition burned all them resources into dropping you assuming you played the all-in properly.

Mass is simply less forgiving and with how unbalanced class matchups are in 1vs1 in this game its not really much more than ego stroking for players who happen to play the right classes.