Hey guys, I wanted to hop in and say we have heard your feedback. We are making some changes to quite a few powers that should make them more attractive and improve various aspects of Hunter kits that people generally avoided before or flat out weren't working the way they were supposed to.
I can't post specific notes yet as this is all still WiP and could change at any time given further testing, but some of the main highlights are as follows
Improvement to Fox Shift so it doesn't feel wasted on a single target
Improvement to Hawkeye because it wasn't getting the damage it was supposed to before due to a bug
Improved damage on a handful of damage dealing encounters to improve the feel of striker gameplay
Improvements to several buff related powers to give more options for support/assist Hunters.
Improvements to Electric Shot and Clear the Ground to make taking them feel much more competitive across the board.
These changes won't make it into an update this week, but hopefully will make it to Preview soon!
Thank you all for the continued feedback!
I think I have a gentle lady crush on gentlemancrush now. *is all teary eyed* Thank you for listening to our feedback and even our whining and complaining. Looking forward to testing these changes when they hit preview.
Hey guys, I wanted to hop in and say we have heard your feedback. We are making some changes to quite a few powers that should make them more attractive and improve various aspects of Hunter kits that people generally avoided before or flat out weren't working the way they were supposed to.
I can't post specific notes yet as this is all still WiP and could change at any time given further testing, but some of the main highlights are as follows
Improvement to Fox Shift so it doesn't feel wasted on a single target
Improvement to Hawkeye because it wasn't getting the damage it was supposed to before due to a bug
Improved damage on a handful of damage dealing encounters to improve the feel of striker gameplay
Improvements to several buff related powers to give more options for support/assist Hunters.
Improvements to Electric Shot and Clear the Ground to make taking them feel much more competitive across the board.
These changes won't make it into an update this week, but hopefully will make it to Preview soon!
Thank you all for the continued feedback!
Well slap me silly and call me Lucy! Someone does listen after all. This is a step in the right direction. Just when I was starting to think all hope was lost for my two favorite classes you shocked me on both of them. Do not get me wrong I would still be playing but I would be complaining every step of the way. You got to fight for things you believe in. You just do not give up on them.
The classes have a long way to go the Hunter especially but I truly feel it will work out fine. We are hearing now from the devs so this shows they are listening. So the best step forward is to contribute ideas and things in a new light so maybe they may see things in a new light and this class can evolve into something greater then we have ever imagined.
Small Dev note here
Improvements to Electric Shot and Clear the Ground to make taking them feel much more competitive across the board.
Clear the ground is a very very unique ability. It is a Melee AOE At-Will that does not require a target. This actually fits a niche and complements some of our abilities pretty nicely. Some added damage on it will be nice but due to the niche of this ability and what you can do with it I am not gonna complain about a few numbers.
Clear the ground is a very very unique ability. It is a Melee AOE At-Will that does not require a target. This actually fits a niche and complements some of our abilities pretty nicely. Some added damage on it will be nice but due to the niche of this ability and what you can do with it I am not gonna complain about a few numbers.
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I agree that clear the ground is already an excellent ability - and do not think it needs a buff at all. Clear the ground + blade storm + twin blade storm is very impressive in a pack of mobs. I always always always outdamage split shot rangers with it.
I agree that clear the ground is already an excellent ability - and do not think it needs a buff at all. Clear the ground + blade storm + twin blade storm is very impressive in a pack of mobs. I always always always outdamage split shot rangers with it.
While it is very good in this case, I think I would prefer having it be useful normally rather than needing a hyper specific build to make it good. It is a pretty sizable buff, but I'd like to see where things shake out. Those class features might merit some tuning to normalize them a bit so they don't only excel in one case.
Gentlemancrush, your earlier posts (perhaps in a different thread) mentioned tuning HR skills to be less "bursty" and more sustained DPS. This suggests (at least to me) that burst DPS isn't part of "the plan" for HRs, if you'll allow me to refer to it that way, instead having them favor sustained DPS.
It's been asked by several people (some more respectfully than others) and if you've answered this question I may have missed it, but I'll ask again anyway:
Is it possible for you to give us a high-level overview of how the team envisions Hunter Rangers? Nothing overly specific of course, just a basic idea so we can understand what the balance team has in mind when they're making these changes. If you can't, for whatever reason, then so be it. I just thought I'd ask.
While it is very good in this case, I think I would prefer having it be useful normally rather than needing a hyper specific build to make it good. It is a pretty sizable buff, but I'd like to see where things shake out. Those class features might merit some tuning to normalize them a bit so they don't only excel in one case.
Like I stated though on Clear the ground I am not gonna sweet some numbers on one heck of an awesome AOE at-will that does not even need a target. If anything I can see perhaps maybe perhaps adding a reverb effect. That would look really cool. Like you use it then there is a lightening splash in a cone with you being in the center of the cone. Yeah I know kinda silly.
Now the whole split shot thing is we use these as a crutch for poor encounter damage. I run Storm/lone in pvp. I still use Clear the ground as it is a very nice easy lazy AOE with a wide range pattern. Great for knocking around some Tricksters failing about on there keyboard. This makes CTG priceless in my book. Yes I prefer running rapid/aimed but it is situational depending on what I am up against.
As a hunter we have a GREAT toolbox. One of the best toolboxes in the game that on paper should allow us to overcome any obstacle. Somehow it just does not play out that way. We have to use abilities in a what feels like an unintended way to achieve our goal. Hunters are pretty bad HAMSTER if played right because we learn how to manipulate the situation. We can take down a GWF because we can outplay him. Why? Because we must. We learn early on how to play better other then just smashing buttons like hulk. other classes do not have this luxury and can go me hulk smash. Which means they do not learn the skills that most hunters learn at a very low level. I hate to say it but it is true.
this indeed is good news,
though, i will hold praise once i understand the direction they are taking us.
please remember in PVE play, much of the combat revolves around multi target fights. please give us viable options in dealing with them as ranged, or melee, let it be our choice dependent on our indivual play stlye.
we do have 3 melee classes now, please allow HR to be effective as a ranged striker. *slides tankard down bench*
What worries me is most of classes do still have a burst damage ability. So although I think its great if we see skills normalized I don't want to be the only class without a burst ability. If I wanted to be a DC I would of rolled one.. and for all I know maybe they have one too.
FS doesnt beat alot of other burst abilities so I hope it stays in that general area.
Good to see electric shot is being looked at. Imo, the damage should be higher than split (post balance) purely because of the aoe and rate of fire. If these newly proposed changes hit alongside the split nerf, it might not be so bad.
Colour me excited by possible improvements to other HR abilities as part of this module now.
There isn't anything in this paragon path that made me think of choosing it over the current one, but on analysis of the abilities and feats I'm using, only one is from the paragon path anyway.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited March 2014
Not even sure a 100% buff to electric shot will make it good to be honest. I fired off one shot and saw like 5% of a weak trash's health go away and just stabbed them afterwards.
While it is very good in this case, I think I would prefer having it be useful normally rather than needing a hyper specific build to make it good. It is a pretty sizable buff, but I'd like to see where things shake out. Those class features might merit some tuning to normalize them a bit so they don't only excel in one case.
You are right, and that does sound reasonable.
Just don't go too crazy on electric shot - it will cause adoption problems for Pathfinder, unless that paragon's skills get a major rework.
AoE is really the only thing for pve, and losing out on what may become our best AoE atwill would be difficult for some to swallow. This isn't a ranger-only problem, either. The pve content is just too easy, and giving players choices that involve some quirky pseudo support ability tacked on to mediocre damage just isn't appealing becaue it is generally not needed. The same goes for any new control skill / thing added to CW: Unless you triple the HP of every mob in the game, it won't be used unless it also outdamages every other skill already in use - The best way to control a mob is by killing it as quickly as possible.
Or just make pathfinder better for pvp Then we have a pretty-good-for-pve and a pretty-good-for-pvp paragon choice to make.
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l3g10nna1reMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 372Arc User
Hey guys, I wanted to hop in and say we have heard your feedback. We are making some changes to quite a few powers that should make them more attractive and improve various aspects of Hunter kits that people generally avoided before or flat out weren't working the way they were supposed to.
I can't post specific notes yet as this is all still WiP and could change at any time given further testing, but some of the main highlights are as follows
Improvement to Fox Shift so it doesn't feel wasted on a single target
Improvement to Hawkeye because it wasn't getting the damage it was supposed to before due to a bug
Improved damage on a handful of damage dealing encounters to improve the feel of striker gameplay
Improvements to several buff related powers to give more options for support/assist Hunters.
Improvements to Electric Shot and Clear the Ground to make taking them feel much more competitive across the board.
These changes won't make it into an update this week, but hopefully will make it to Preview soon!
Thank you all for the continued feedback!
Sounds like a good start and thanks for letting us know however I did have some other feedback overall for the Hunter
On a funny note i just noticed the main heading in the notes from post 1 gentlemancrush
** The Pathfinder is a ranger who uses carefully timed strikes and preparation to aid allies and land devastating blows on foes.
**
" the irony " is now is on Preview build 15.5 we arent Devistating
Would be good if perhaps today we can some feedback from Gentlemancrush or a Combat designer Dev
1: Why the need to reduce Slit shots Overall Damage rating (Please do not say for agro as this is in no way valid)
2: Why The new skills do not conform to the Pathfinder Path (I.e. Devastating blows)
3: Why the Power rework and changes have decreased damage heavily in this preview build 15.5 (Aimed shot Being the Main concern)
My personal own views are we need to fully rework the Storm path to be a Striker Paragon path, The Path finder path to be either a Melle Path or Control Path.
At Wills
Rapid Strike - Needs Animation increased by 25% so we get a 4th arrow in there,
Split Shot - Left as is but i think the general overview is 10/15% decrease would be acceptable
Aimed Shot - Decrease Duration of charge by 0.5 seconds per Rank
Electric Shot - Revamp this fully to be either a charged Skill or increase the DPS of the Shot and the AOe effect by 40-60%
Encounters
ME/MR - Perfect good utility for getting In and out of situations Truely a well designed Skill
HS/HS - Rework this fully to slow down NPCS possible it could be used to slow down by 15/30/45% or 20/40/60%
ROA/ROS - Ranged version increase area to 10 metre radius to allow more use /utlity Damage is fine but getting a stationary NPC is hard
TW/TS - TW/TS is fine however would suggest as per the Tool Targets/Defences make it AOE tip Rank 2 - 2 targets Rank 3 - targets
CA/SB - Fine Skill for tricky situations not much of a Control or Damage skill but in the middle Perhaps Add a 10/20/30% slow Effect?
BH/BC - Boar hide / Boars Rush isnt used to much in PVE although i love the animation for Boars Rush! No comment on this Skill
STS/TC - Split the sky is useful but the Damage is so low, Perhaps we could Add a Stun to this every time an enemy is Attacked ?
HS/HE - Rework this skill 100% Hawk shot should be a Charging Skill and should be our "big Nuke Encounter"
BA/OS - Binding part is nice perhaps we can Change this to a AOE Skill? A 5' Radias and slows enemys down (Could be used with STS)
* OS - Could use a Heavy Boost if you went nature the Heal part even with full nature values is very very low, (Tested with Valindra)
CS/SH - Debuff is nice but could use some information on the debuff % so Rank1/2/3 = 5/10/15%? Could use a 20% DPS increase
FC/FS - Very useful in many situations however the FC part of it could use a little adjustment
Daily’s
Seismic Shot - Good Skill however some times Very hard to line up all the "ducks" in a line though
Cold Steel Hurricane – add a damage immunity effect while casting this similar to Wight commanders as the Hunter at the epi-centre and make this a sustained damage skill while being Cast
Forest Ghost – Good Skill And useful could use a more Attractive Damage bonus or change to a Complete Escape utility
Forest Meditation – some what useful in some aspects
Disruptive Shot - Useful to counter attacks think this is fine as is,
Hey guys, I wanted to hop in and say we have heard your feedback. We are making some changes to quite a few powers that should make them more attractive and improve various aspects of Hunter kits that people generally avoided before or flat out weren't working the way they were supposed to.
I can't post specific notes yet as this is all still WiP and could change at any time given further testing, but some of the main highlights are as follows
Improvement to Fox Shift so it doesn't feel wasted on a single target
Improvement to Hawkeye because it wasn't getting the damage it was supposed to before due to a bug
Improved damage on a handful of damage dealing encounters to improve the feel of striker gameplay
Improvements to several buff related powers to give more options for support/assist Hunters.
Improvements to Electric Shot and Clear the Ground to make taking them feel much more competitive across the board.
These changes won't make it into an update this week, but hopefully will make it to Preview soon!
Thank you all for the continued feedback!
nice knew they wouldnt leave us hanging i look forward to testing it out when it goes up! and will post feed back about them here when it drops.
I had a thought about Careful Attack - What if it was a charge at-will ability that while held keeps the reducing mark on targets while in range and gathers damage as party strikes it and when you stop charging and mark breaks; it releases the damage from CA all at once it would avoid the wierd animation of the study too and it could still cause no aggro nor remove the mark until it damages.
Possibly could just make the damage or debuff of it intensify with every second or so held and can be released at any time up to a certain point maybe 5-6 seconds that is equal to duration the mark existing making it viable for the ranger to use solo.
What I mean is the mark lasts as long as the charge does (5-6 seconds) but the damage does not intensify unless charging allowing the ranger to bide the damage from its other attacks and let it loose in 5-6 seconds as an attack.
Studying an enemy should take time and the more you study the more intense the damage it would recieve from the attack until the mark is broken by an attack while not charging, when charging time or mark duration has elapsed, or while enemies are out of range for CA.
Shouldnt just be a mark that you click to use and keep reusing by holding it down as it limits mobility, reduces usefulness and damage; and the release anytime would make it so that if you need to move, you can. This would make it a possible moderate burst damage aoe with the current or different debuff attached.
I wouldnt make too powerful but not weak as it currently is either; then you could animate the "Careful Attack" as an actual aoe attack looking like a current CA range splitstrike or something close to it after mark is broken.
it could allow for the melee ranger to want to possibly use it as feats could work together with it it would allow attacking from safe distance while still being melee in nature and making it so that it doesnt look like the ranger is just sitting on his laurels; but instead biding his time to strike.
Make it work with ambush's stealth and ambush's damage itself because it sounds like something an ambush would accomplish and benefit from well.
It might also synergize with current or a modified fox shift hitting those enemies just hit by CA get hit again and forest ghost is another hit ambush would be another.
Keeping the enemies in range for full damage would be challanging and could take practice but make the damage at least worth the wait, make it comboable; and it might be used and might be practiced.
Ambush - I lose the ambush by accident almost everytime I hit the button because the stealth lets me move without being attacked.
If I am hitting the key to move in order to kite then hit the key to get stealth and ambush I use the ambush up by moving a step after using it.
Needs an animation to show who or what it has hit; not just numbers, because its hard to differentiate just from the numbers.
I have a feeling that its not meant to do that. There should imo be a (very slight) increase in animation time to movement without sticking the ranger in the same spot to avoid something like this from happening; but not long enough to make the ranger a sitting duck in any situation.
Stealth should still go on at the same time frame in the animation that it does now.
It's a great ability I love how it works however, especially with forest ghost and meditation could probably also work with boars rush and does work with hindering strike well.
Bear Trap - I like this ability but since its single target it might not be used. It's a huge bear trap so when it goes off it should short stun (maybe 1 second) and hit to all who are standing (very close or completely on top of) the springing of the trap up to a certain target cap maybe 3.
I think would also synergize with the gfs aggro ability and style and while kiting as you can throw it from fairly far away while aiding with kiting or slowing down the enemy from hitting him. CWs while kiting or teleporting away could even benefit as they are usually pretty squishy and BT could slow 2 or three enemies in time for the cw to move then CC.
The feat would be fine for this and would add an element of ranged aoe control to the power due to the snare from feat and stun from power.
Sometimes Bear Trap doesnt go off even when stepped on 4+ times by an enemy usually due to slopes in terrain I think as it gets clipped in the ground.
Also needs an animation to show who or what it has hit; not just numbers, because its hard to differentiate just from the numbers or by sight due to the short stun it has.
Maybe a blood fx but not effect. (add the effect too if you wish) or perhaps a clamp fx.
Split Shot: The damage of this power has been reduced by 45%.
No. This is a bad/unneeded fix.
I can only guess at why Split Shot is being nerfed. Given that I've played multiple HRs (pvp and pve builds), re-rolled, and way too many re-specs, I would guess that you're trying to balance HR damage lvl 10-40. I readily concede that a level 10 HR with Ancient Mulhorand gear and good enchants using Split Shot is unbalanced. However, at levels 50-60 HR's quickly fall back into the middle of the pack.
I read through the first few pages of feedback and the rest of my concerns have already been expressed. It seems to me this change completely redefines the role of HR (from mediocre dps/supportive role to just a supportive role). I spent a lot of time (and money) on my HR to have high dps. This completely kills my build. I won't re-spec again because it won't allow me to change race that is more support role oriented. I won't be re-rolling again either. Too much work, too little fun, for no reward. Please reconsider.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Split Shot: The damage of this power has been reduced by 45%.
No. This is a bad/unneeded fix.
I can only guess at why Split Shot is being nerfed. Given that I've played multiple HRs (pvp and pve builds), re-rolled, and way too many re-specs, I would guess that you're trying to balance HR damage lvl 10-40. I readily concede that a level 10 HR with Ancient Mulhorand gear and good enchants using Split Shot is unbalanced. However, at levels 50-60 HR's quickly fall back into the middle of the pack.
I read through the first few pages of feedback and the rest of my concerns have already been expressed. It seems to me this change completely redefines the role of HR (from mediocre dps/supportive role to just a supportive role). I spent a lot of time (and money) on my HR to have high dps. This completely kills my build. I won't re-spec again because it won't allow me to change race that is more support role oriented. I won't be re-rolling again either. Too much work, too little fun, for no reward. Please reconsider.
My idea the whole time is not to nerf the damage, but the charge. It does too much damage without needing to be charged is where the unbalance is at.
I'm with the guy that posted about eletric shot, one idea that would be really cool and nice, is that ES had a charge, but the other way around from split shot, the longer you hold the wider the cone goes, that and a damage buff would make it viable to PvE and PvP as single target damage.
All these complaints from people playing a top damage class if played right currently and the most OP pvp class is just laughable. IMO rangers will be a lot more balanced after the split shot change. I've seen rangers outdamaging my wizard which is fully pve specced, rank 8-9s, thaum heavy bulldozer mass aoe dps, and never get outdamaged except by a handful of players, and most of the times, it's been rangers. There's definitely something wrong, and the first step is making split shot more in line with what other classes have.
Electric shot doesn't need to be charged or coned. It just needs better damage and either a faster firing rate, a bit of slow/stun or some of both.
Truly all the Stormwarden paragon powers/passives should have a stun/slow/speed buff component attached to the electric damage and then be able to have aditional affects feated in the three trees. For instance instead of Blade storm causing extra damage in melee it should speed up the attack speed and add tiny bit lightning damage. Twin blade storm adds a slowing affect and tiny bit of lightning damage instead of an outright damage boost. Tweaking of course so they net gain of those passives is about the same but the affects are so much better. I can dream right?
All these complaints from people playing a top damage class if played right currently and the most OP pvp class is just laughable. IMO rangers will be a lot more balanced after the split shot change. I've seen rangers outdamaging my wizard which is fully pve specced, rank 8-9s, thaum heavy bulldozer mass aoe dps, and never get outdamaged except by a handful of players, and most of the times, it's been rangers. There's definitely something wrong, and the first step is making split shot more in line with what other classes have.
Rangers are primarily a striker/dps class. The so called control of our roots offers little to nothing in PVE gameplay. We should be outDPSing a CONTROL class. Most of us didn't want buffs per say. We wanted balanced. Having split shot, an at will be 50% of our PVE damage was silly. The dps encounters how ever were so lackluster as not be viable to pump out damage. Now with the devs latest feedback to our feedback that is what seems to be what is going to happen. The damage from split shot is being moved to encounters which is exactly what needed to occur. For you to actually post about the fabulous joy of a controls class DPS reign at the top for the most part is only digging your own grave a little faster, hopefully. You do know damage nerfs are incoming in the future for CW's yes? You do that at some point in the future CW's will most likely be what they should have always been which is heavy CC and moderate damage and NOT the class pumping out both. Just lettin you know in case you didn't!
Toodles!!
Liell.
All these complaints from people playing a top damage class if played right currently and the most OP pvp class is just laughable. IMO rangers will be a lot more balanced after the split shot change. I've seen rangers outdamaging my wizard which is fully pve specced, rank 8-9s, thaum heavy bulldozer mass aoe dps, and never get outdamaged except by a handful of players, and most of the times, it's been rangers. There's definitely something wrong, and the first step is making split shot more in line with what other classes have.
This isn't about PvP. It is about PvE. If split shot was so powerful I would have been using it all the time. I use it to open up but then use other skills (StS, TW, RoA, aimed shot and rapid shot) Yes this reduction hurts the class but if the other changes that gentlemancrush posted about goes thru then we as HRs have more of a choice.
Im not really impressed by the new paragon path. I wanted pathfinder, but its skills arent very impressive to me.
The 100% daily does very little damage (which was the problem with last paragon daily) the mark is cool but not something I'd use a 100% daily for.
I liked the bear trap.
The melee at will is good for group stuff. I can see its use for pvp too has a nice range.
The ranged version of the at will is about a little faster electric shot but hits harder than rapid shot and is a little slower. The mark it has is alright I guess. The skills feels too similar still, even though this new at will has a bonus mark mechanic.
Im not impressed by any of its feats and I only really see the usefulness of one class feature really.
As much as I was looking forward to pathfinder. I may stick to stormwarden personally, even though I dont use none of the atwills,daily or encounter or feats. Only the class features.
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caynspMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited March 2014
I think the chages to HR are... a disaster
Fist, split shot. It's absurd. The only change i'll do to that skill it's its initial damage. I'll keep initial damage of preview server with final damage of live server.
I'll give Electric shot more damage or speed to have an option against split shot.
Thorn ward... It's better than before but it has no use like finisher (the idiea after this change, i think
Careful attack, i don't feel like that should we an at-will
Fist, split shot. It's absurd. The only change i'll do to that skill it's its initial damage. I'll keep initial damage of preview server with final damage of live server.
I'll give Electric shot more damage or speed to have an option against split shot.
Thorn ward... It's better than before but it has no use like finisher (the idiea after this change, i think
Careful attack, i don't feel like that should we an at-will
The devs are rebalancing HR as we speak, here's a quote from gentlemancrush
(( Hey guys, I wanted to hop in and say we have heard your feedback. We are making some changes to quite a few powers that should make them more attractive and improve various aspects of Hunter kits that people generally avoided before or flat out weren't working the way they were supposed to.
I can't post specific notes yet as this is all still WiP and could change at any time given further testing, but some of the main highlights are as follows
Improvement to Fox Shift so it doesn't feel wasted on a single target
Improvement to Hawkeye because it wasn't getting the damage it was supposed to before due to a bug
Improved damage on a handful of damage dealing encounters to improve the feel of striker gameplay
Improvements to several buff related powers to give more options for support/assist Hunters.
Improvements to Electric Shot and Clear the Ground to make taking them feel much more competitive across the board.
These changes won't make it into an update this week, but hopefully will make it to Preview soon!
it's nice that u are going to improve HR buffs for nature's build, but it won't change anything so much...the problem is here that PvE is MUCH TOO EASY... People don;t need DC or nature HR anymore to finish the most challenging from dungeons. They even don;t want them, because 5 dps (mainly 4 CW + 1 GWF) is a lot faster way to do a dung.
Please, make some REALLY challenging pve, where CW cannot clear the group of mobs with single spell....dungeons where mobs are more endure, faster (!! important element of dynamic, cool gameplay) and hit much harder. That will make DC and nature HR usefull classes again.
What's more..I understand that u want easy dungs, so everyone could do it and u are still getting new players because of that, but this also have some critical point. If u won;t make a really hard dung, where players need to use not only superb gs, but also a lot of tactics and wit, you will loose a lot of experienced players (the most stabile from players enviroment). Not only I, but also my many mates are complaining to each other that this game is easy as hell and we are getting bored more and more and some of us already leaved...
Please, make a CHALLENGE for skilled and experienced (not only rich) players, which are for so long with u and which help u to popularize this game...
I hope u read it, thx
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caynspMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited March 2014
I'm glad to read the re-think about HR, now it's very difficult to get into a party for dungeons to get so much nerf in that way.
About dungeons... the way to do them challenging is not to put bigger mobs. The way is making them more tactics. Take away CC inmunity from bosses and give them powerful atttacks u need to interrupt with same kind of CC
Going back to our thread:
-Hunter's teamwork seems to work better with out supply drop, just giving heals and aid to party.
-Careful attack haven't much sense like At-will, it seems to me much like an encounter. Giving up an At-will for a non-stackable debuff is not a good idea...
-Ambush need a little rework. It breaks as soon as u move, making it useless (u can use it only like some kind of slow buff), but it has a good hit.
-Bear trap... i had always had a bad use of this kind of skills, so...
-Slasher’s Mark: It has a very high cost for its rewards
-Cruel Recovery: It works fine, giving some durability to melee builds
Comments
I think I have a gentle lady crush on gentlemancrush now. *is all teary eyed* Thank you for listening to our feedback and even our whining and complaining. Looking forward to testing these changes when they hit preview.
The classes have a long way to go the Hunter especially but I truly feel it will work out fine. We are hearing now from the devs so this shows they are listening. So the best step forward is to contribute ideas and things in a new light so maybe they may see things in a new light and this class can evolve into something greater then we have ever imagined.
Small Dev note here
Improvements to Electric Shot and Clear the Ground to make taking them feel much more competitive across the board.
Clear the ground is a very very unique ability. It is a Melee AOE At-Will that does not require a target. This actually fits a niche and complements some of our abilities pretty nicely. Some added damage on it will be nice but due to the niche of this ability and what you can do with it I am not gonna complain about a few numbers.
I agree that clear the ground is already an excellent ability - and do not think it needs a buff at all. Clear the ground + blade storm + twin blade storm is very impressive in a pack of mobs. I always always always outdamage split shot rangers with it.
While it is very good in this case, I think I would prefer having it be useful normally rather than needing a hyper specific build to make it good. It is a pretty sizable buff, but I'd like to see where things shake out. Those class features might merit some tuning to normalize them a bit so they don't only excel in one case.
It's been asked by several people (some more respectfully than others) and if you've answered this question I may have missed it, but I'll ask again anyway:
Is it possible for you to give us a high-level overview of how the team envisions Hunter Rangers? Nothing overly specific of course, just a basic idea so we can understand what the balance team has in mind when they're making these changes. If you can't, for whatever reason, then so be it. I just thought I'd ask.
Now the whole split shot thing is we use these as a crutch for poor encounter damage. I run Storm/lone in pvp. I still use Clear the ground as it is a very nice easy lazy AOE with a wide range pattern. Great for knocking around some Tricksters failing about on there keyboard. This makes CTG priceless in my book. Yes I prefer running rapid/aimed but it is situational depending on what I am up against.
As a hunter we have a GREAT toolbox. One of the best toolboxes in the game that on paper should allow us to overcome any obstacle. Somehow it just does not play out that way. We have to use abilities in a what feels like an unintended way to achieve our goal. Hunters are pretty bad HAMSTER if played right because we learn how to manipulate the situation. We can take down a GWF because we can outplay him. Why? Because we must. We learn early on how to play better other then just smashing buttons like hulk. other classes do not have this luxury and can go me hulk smash. Which means they do not learn the skills that most hunters learn at a very low level. I hate to say it but it is true.
though, i will hold praise once i understand the direction they are taking us.
please remember in PVE play, much of the combat revolves around multi target fights. please give us viable options in dealing with them as ranged, or melee, let it be our choice dependent on our indivual play stlye.
we do have 3 melee classes now, please allow HR to be effective as a ranged striker. *slides tankard down bench*
FS doesnt beat alot of other burst abilities so I hope it stays in that general area.
There isn't anything in this paragon path that made me think of choosing it over the current one, but on analysis of the abilities and feats I'm using, only one is from the paragon path anyway.
I'm using *those* epics, btw.
You are right, and that does sound reasonable.
Just don't go too crazy on electric shot - it will cause adoption problems for Pathfinder, unless that paragon's skills get a major rework.
AoE is really the only thing for pve, and losing out on what may become our best AoE atwill would be difficult for some to swallow. This isn't a ranger-only problem, either. The pve content is just too easy, and giving players choices that involve some quirky pseudo support ability tacked on to mediocre damage just isn't appealing becaue it is generally not needed. The same goes for any new control skill / thing added to CW: Unless you triple the HP of every mob in the game, it won't be used unless it also outdamages every other skill already in use - The best way to control a mob is by killing it as quickly as possible.
Or just make pathfinder better for pvp
Sounds like a good start and thanks for letting us know however I did have some other feedback overall for the Hunter
On a funny note
** The Pathfinder is a ranger who uses carefully timed strikes and preparation to aid allies and land devastating blows on foes.
**
" the irony " is now is on Preview build 15.5 we arent Devistating
Would be good if perhaps today we can some feedback from Gentlemancrush or a Combat designer Dev
1: Why the need to reduce Slit shots Overall Damage rating (Please do not say for agro as this is in no way valid)
2: Why The new skills do not conform to the Pathfinder Path (I.e. Devastating blows)
3: Why the Power rework and changes have decreased damage heavily in this preview build 15.5 (Aimed shot Being the Main concern)
My personal own views are we need to fully rework the Storm path to be a Striker Paragon path, The Path finder path to be either a Melle Path or Control Path.
At Wills
Rapid Strike - Needs Animation increased by 25% so we get a 4th arrow in there,
Split Shot - Left as is but i think the general overview is 10/15% decrease would be acceptable
Aimed Shot - Decrease Duration of charge by 0.5 seconds per Rank
Electric Shot - Revamp this fully to be either a charged Skill or increase the DPS of the Shot and the AOe effect by 40-60%
Encounters
ME/MR - Perfect good utility for getting In and out of situations Truely a well designed Skill
HS/HS - Rework this fully to slow down NPCS possible it could be used to slow down by 15/30/45% or 20/40/60%
ROA/ROS - Ranged version increase area to 10 metre radius to allow more use /utlity Damage is fine but getting a stationary NPC is hard
TW/TS - TW/TS is fine however would suggest as per the Tool Targets/Defences make it AOE tip Rank 2 - 2 targets Rank 3 - targets
CA/SB - Fine Skill for tricky situations not much of a Control or Damage skill but in the middle Perhaps Add a 10/20/30% slow Effect?
BH/BC - Boar hide / Boars Rush isnt used to much in PVE although i love the animation for Boars Rush! No comment on this Skill
STS/TC - Split the sky is useful but the Damage is so low, Perhaps we could Add a Stun to this every time an enemy is Attacked ?
HS/HE - Rework this skill 100% Hawk shot should be a Charging Skill and should be our "big Nuke Encounter"
BA/OS - Binding part is nice perhaps we can Change this to a AOE Skill? A 5' Radias and slows enemys down (Could be used with STS)
* OS - Could use a Heavy Boost if you went nature the Heal part even with full nature values is very very low, (Tested with Valindra)
CS/SH - Debuff is nice but could use some information on the debuff % so Rank1/2/3 = 5/10/15%? Could use a 20% DPS increase
FC/FS - Very useful in many situations however the FC part of it could use a little adjustment
Daily’s
Seismic Shot - Good Skill however some times Very hard to line up all the "ducks" in a line though
Cold Steel Hurricane – add a damage immunity effect while casting this similar to Wight commanders as the Hunter at the epi-centre and make this a sustained damage skill while being Cast
Forest Ghost – Good Skill And useful could use a more Attractive Damage bonus or change to a Complete Escape utility
Forest Meditation – some what useful in some aspects
Disruptive Shot - Useful to counter attacks think this is fine as is,
nice knew they wouldnt leave us hanging i look forward to testing it out when it goes up! and will post feed back about them here when it drops.
I had a thought about Careful Attack - What if it was a charge at-will ability that while held keeps the reducing mark on targets while in range and gathers damage as party strikes it and when you stop charging and mark breaks; it releases the damage from CA all at once it would avoid the wierd animation of the study too and it could still cause no aggro nor remove the mark until it damages.
Possibly could just make the damage or debuff of it intensify with every second or so held and can be released at any time up to a certain point maybe 5-6 seconds that is equal to duration the mark existing making it viable for the ranger to use solo.
What I mean is the mark lasts as long as the charge does (5-6 seconds) but the damage does not intensify unless charging allowing the ranger to bide the damage from its other attacks and let it loose in 5-6 seconds as an attack.
Studying an enemy should take time and the more you study the more intense the damage it would recieve from the attack until the mark is broken by an attack while not charging, when charging time or mark duration has elapsed, or while enemies are out of range for CA.
Shouldnt just be a mark that you click to use and keep reusing by holding it down as it limits mobility, reduces usefulness and damage; and the release anytime would make it so that if you need to move, you can. This would make it a possible moderate burst damage aoe with the current or different debuff attached.
I wouldnt make too powerful but not weak as it currently is either; then you could animate the "Careful Attack" as an actual aoe attack looking like a current CA range splitstrike or something close to it after mark is broken.
it could allow for the melee ranger to want to possibly use it as feats could work together with it it would allow attacking from safe distance while still being melee in nature and making it so that it doesnt look like the ranger is just sitting on his laurels; but instead biding his time to strike.
Make it work with ambush's stealth and ambush's damage itself because it sounds like something an ambush would accomplish and benefit from well.
It might also synergize with current or a modified fox shift hitting those enemies just hit by CA get hit again and forest ghost is another hit ambush would be another.
Keeping the enemies in range for full damage would be challanging and could take practice but make the damage at least worth the wait, make it comboable; and it might be used and might be practiced.
Ambush - I lose the ambush by accident almost everytime I hit the button because the stealth lets me move without being attacked.
If I am hitting the key to move in order to kite then hit the key to get stealth and ambush I use the ambush up by moving a step after using it.
Needs an animation to show who or what it has hit; not just numbers, because its hard to differentiate just from the numbers.
I have a feeling that its not meant to do that. There should imo be a (very slight) increase in animation time to movement without sticking the ranger in the same spot to avoid something like this from happening; but not long enough to make the ranger a sitting duck in any situation.
Stealth should still go on at the same time frame in the animation that it does now.
It's a great ability I love how it works however, especially with forest ghost and meditation could probably also work with boars rush and does work with hindering strike well.
Bear Trap - I like this ability but since its single target it might not be used. It's a huge bear trap so when it goes off it should short stun (maybe 1 second) and hit to all who are standing (very close or completely on top of) the springing of the trap up to a certain target cap maybe 3.
I think would also synergize with the gfs aggro ability and style and while kiting as you can throw it from fairly far away while aiding with kiting or slowing down the enemy from hitting him. CWs while kiting or teleporting away could even benefit as they are usually pretty squishy and BT could slow 2 or three enemies in time for the cw to move then CC.
The feat would be fine for this and would add an element of ranged aoe control to the power due to the snare from feat and stun from power.
Sometimes Bear Trap doesnt go off even when stepped on 4+ times by an enemy usually due to slopes in terrain I think as it gets clipped in the ground.
Also needs an animation to show who or what it has hit; not just numbers, because its hard to differentiate just from the numbers or by sight due to the short stun it has.
Maybe a blood fx but not effect. (add the effect too if you wish) or perhaps a clamp fx.
No. This is a bad/unneeded fix.
I can only guess at why Split Shot is being nerfed. Given that I've played multiple HRs (pvp and pve builds), re-rolled, and way too many re-specs, I would guess that you're trying to balance HR damage lvl 10-40. I readily concede that a level 10 HR with Ancient Mulhorand gear and good enchants using Split Shot is unbalanced. However, at levels 50-60 HR's quickly fall back into the middle of the pack.
I read through the first few pages of feedback and the rest of my concerns have already been expressed. It seems to me this change completely redefines the role of HR (from mediocre dps/supportive role to just a supportive role). I spent a lot of time (and money) on my HR to have high dps. This completely kills my build. I won't re-spec again because it won't allow me to change race that is more support role oriented. I won't be re-rolling again either. Too much work, too little fun, for no reward. Please reconsider.
My idea the whole time is not to nerf the damage, but the charge. It does too much damage without needing to be charged is where the unbalance is at.
Truly all the Stormwarden paragon powers/passives should have a stun/slow/speed buff component attached to the electric damage and then be able to have aditional affects feated in the three trees. For instance instead of Blade storm causing extra damage in melee it should speed up the attack speed and add tiny bit lightning damage. Twin blade storm adds a slowing affect and tiny bit of lightning damage instead of an outright damage boost. Tweaking of course so they net gain of those passives is about the same but the affects are so much better. I can dream right?
Rangers are primarily a striker/dps class. The so called control of our roots offers little to nothing in PVE gameplay. We should be outDPSing a CONTROL class. Most of us didn't want buffs per say. We wanted balanced. Having split shot, an at will be 50% of our PVE damage was silly. The dps encounters how ever were so lackluster as not be viable to pump out damage. Now with the devs latest feedback to our feedback that is what seems to be what is going to happen. The damage from split shot is being moved to encounters which is exactly what needed to occur. For you to actually post about the fabulous joy of a controls class DPS reign at the top for the most part is only digging your own grave a little faster, hopefully. You do know damage nerfs are incoming in the future for CW's yes? You do that at some point in the future CW's will most likely be what they should have always been which is heavy CC and moderate damage and NOT the class pumping out both. Just lettin you know in case you didn't!
Toodles!!
Liell.
This isn't about PvP. It is about PvE. If split shot was so powerful I would have been using it all the time. I use it to open up but then use other skills (StS, TW, RoA, aimed shot and rapid shot) Yes this reduction hurts the class but if the other changes that gentlemancrush posted about goes thru then we as HRs have more of a choice.
The 100% daily does very little damage (which was the problem with last paragon daily) the mark is cool but not something I'd use a 100% daily for.
I liked the bear trap.
The melee at will is good for group stuff. I can see its use for pvp too has a nice range.
The ranged version of the at will is about a little faster electric shot but hits harder than rapid shot and is a little slower. The mark it has is alright I guess. The skills feels too similar still, even though this new at will has a bonus mark mechanic.
Im not impressed by any of its feats and I only really see the usefulness of one class feature really.
As much as I was looking forward to pathfinder. I may stick to stormwarden personally, even though I dont use none of the atwills,daily or encounter or feats. Only the class features.
Fist, split shot. It's absurd. The only change i'll do to that skill it's its initial damage. I'll keep initial damage of preview server with final damage of live server.
I'll give Electric shot more damage or speed to have an option against split shot.
Thorn ward... It's better than before but it has no use like finisher (the idiea after this change, i think
Careful attack, i don't feel like that should we an at-will
The devs are rebalancing HR as we speak, here's a quote from gentlemancrush
(( Hey guys, I wanted to hop in and say we have heard your feedback. We are making some changes to quite a few powers that should make them more attractive and improve various aspects of Hunter kits that people generally avoided before or flat out weren't working the way they were supposed to.
I can't post specific notes yet as this is all still WiP and could change at any time given further testing, but some of the main highlights are as follows
Improvement to Fox Shift so it doesn't feel wasted on a single target
Improvement to Hawkeye because it wasn't getting the damage it was supposed to before due to a bug
Improved damage on a handful of damage dealing encounters to improve the feel of striker gameplay
Improvements to several buff related powers to give more options for support/assist Hunters.
Improvements to Electric Shot and Clear the Ground to make taking them feel much more competitive across the board.
These changes won't make it into an update this week, but hopefully will make it to Preview soon!
Thank you all for the continued feedback!))
it's nice that u are going to improve HR buffs for nature's build, but it won't change anything so much...the problem is here that PvE is MUCH TOO EASY... People don;t need DC or nature HR anymore to finish the most challenging from dungeons. They even don;t want them, because 5 dps (mainly 4 CW + 1 GWF) is a lot faster way to do a dung.
Please, make some REALLY challenging pve, where CW cannot clear the group of mobs with single spell....dungeons where mobs are more endure, faster (!! important element of dynamic, cool gameplay) and hit much harder. That will make DC and nature HR usefull classes again.
What's more..I understand that u want easy dungs, so everyone could do it and u are still getting new players because of that, but this also have some critical point. If u won;t make a really hard dung, where players need to use not only superb gs, but also a lot of tactics and wit, you will loose a lot of experienced players (the most stabile from players enviroment). Not only I, but also my many mates are complaining to each other that this game is easy as hell and we are getting bored more and more and some of us already leaved...
Please, make a CHALLENGE for skilled and experienced (not only rich) players, which are for so long with u and which help u to popularize this game...
I hope u read it, thx
About dungeons... the way to do them challenging is not to put bigger mobs. The way is making them more tactics. Take away CC inmunity from bosses and give them powerful atttacks u need to interrupt with same kind of CC
Going back to our thread:
-Hunter's teamwork seems to work better with out supply drop, just giving heals and aid to party.
-Careful attack haven't much sense like At-will, it seems to me much like an encounter. Giving up an At-will for a non-stackable debuff is not a good idea...
-Ambush need a little rework. It breaks as soon as u move, making it useless (u can use it only like some kind of slow buff), but it has a good hit.
-Bear trap... i had always had a bad use of this kind of skills, so...
-Slasher’s Mark: It has a very high cost for its rewards
-Cruel Recovery: It works fine, giving some durability to melee builds