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Official M16: Barbarian Feedback
asterdahl
Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258Cryptic Developer › Cryptic Developer
Feedback: Barbarian
Greetings adventurers, Asterdahl here! This thread is for providing bug reports and feedback on the upcoming changes to barbarian (formerly great weapon fighter) in Module 16. If you haven't already please take a moment to read Noworries' M16: Overview thread.The most important takeaway in terms of class feedback is: we are still making changes to class powers, both functional and numerical. We wanted to get your hands on the changes sooner than usual. However, as a result, we ask that you realize what you see on preview will change, sometimes dramatically before launch. If you find your perfect build on preview, it may not be the perfect build on live. Powers you feel are very strong, may not stay as strong. We ask for your patience with these changes.
Finally, there are some known issues going into the initial preview build. Particularly in feats, a number of feats may reference powers that are not available when the feat is unlocked, or in some rare cases, reference powers which no longer exist. We have made a number of changes coming out of closed beta, and it is our short term goal to have these feats updated in the near future.
As always, thank you for taking the time to come check things out on preview, we look forward to your feedback!
Formatting Your Feedback and Bugs
For posting feedback and bugs, please follow the following format to ensure your feedback and bugs are seen clearly and processed in a timely manner, thank you!Type: Bug/Feedback (Please only choose one)
If you are listing a bug please have this text in RED, if you are posting an opinion or feedback please use CYAN. If you are replying to another user's post, asking a question, or just engaging in general discussion, please do not color your posts, general discussion is welcome and we will read all of it, regardless of color! You can use BBCode to color your text:
<font color=cyan>This text will display in cyan.</font>
<font color=red>This text will display in red.</font>Examples:
Bug: Threatening rush said that I should lunge towards the target, but I can only use it if the enemy is right next to me.
Feedback: I don't like the changes to Unstoppable, I miss the temporary hit points.
Post edited by asterdahl on
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there is nothing i put my eyes on in the preview that is going for the better everything i see is a nerf left and right
nerf to powers / buffs / companions / enchants and the list goes on
this is really horrible
When the main purpose is to deal damage and not much else, going live with these numbers will cause a mass exodus of Barbarians.
Now there are a lot of feats granting FLAT numbers ... Not only they aren't even relevant numbers (they're worth less than a companion equip bonus) but they're also prone to be useless in the future when the power creep will increase ... At this point either make them % based (increase CA by x%) or completely change them ...
I will edit this and make more feedbacks when i'm less depressed about the class becoming so bad and unresolved
I don't know if its intended nerf or bug but it should be aoe attack otherwise we have no aoe clear.
So, if you're just using your at-wills, things will definitely feel slower, but encounters and dailies should feel very impactful. With that said, I would like to say that Barbarian is one of the classes most in need of further adjustments right now, and it will be getting a number of changes over the next 2 weeks to make sure it is on par with other classes.
If you are fighting in campaign zones, keep in mind that those zones are now scaled, and we're still working on how that scaling affects you. Try playing in the new leveling zones. Also, if you have any other classes, try playing them in the scaled and leveling zones as well and see how they stack up. Barbarian shouldn't be significantly lower than other classes right now, but I there will be changes coming.
Specifically, coming out of the previous modules, Barbarian had a lot of table setting; setting up buffs and debuffs, in order to deal respectable damage. We're generally moving towards, but especially for Barabrian, dealing more significant damage directly. Not only does doing a lot of table setting feel strange as a Barbarian, it felt weird even when the class was great weapon fighter, you're all about swinging a huge weapon after all.
I want to say that i really love the changes done towards the Class Revamp, Boons and Companions etc. I do think that the concept and the idea behind it was good. I’m glad you heard my feedback on class revamping and it gone exactly as i said through different posts of friends posting on my behalf, or me posting on different sites where one of the Community Team that departed 1 year ago shown it to you guys. Anyway the Revamp was needed and it was done alright.
So let’s get down to my feedback for Barbarians, and how i envisioned my idea going through with these changes:
From my first impression these are the things i wish to be changed before the Barbarian goes to live, the current version of Barbarian looks really bad.
Starting off with :
I. Atwills
1)Sure strike : 2nd,3rd and 4th hit of Sure Strike is dealing the same dmg, this is a nerf from live version.
2)Reaping Strike: Please remove this at will from the game, like seriously this is not going to work at all, it doesn’t matter what is being done to it, the problem is with the animation and the Casting time, and you always get interrupted, its not going to work
3)BladeMaster Strike: it should increase the damage by 10%
4)Threatening Rush it should be moved into the DPS specc, and Wicked Strike should be moved as the 3rd Atwill for TANK specc, and Brash Strike should be the 4th atwill on TANK specc. Or put Trheatening Rush as a 2nd Atwill and ADD a new ATWILL instead of Reaping strike.
II. Encounters:
1. Not So Fast , Restoring Strike, Mighty leap need a huge upgrade, there were some feats in Instigator Paragon and Sentinel that were making these Powers to be a bit useful, could you please add them straight to Encounter straight?
2 On the TANK specc there needs to have more Utility and Usefullness for the Daring Shout and Come and Get it. Litterarly all of the powers on Live that were USELESS got nerfed, same with the ones that were Usefull got nerfed to be used as rank 1 instead of 4. Now our DPS is crippled, but our TANK specc isn’t good either. How do you guys intend to play any tank class if there is, no DPS or anyway to maintain a AGGRO.
Please look into Daring shout and Come and Get it to make these filled of threat generation and also self defensive buffs and some Utility buffs towards the group.
3. Change Grandfissure from the DPS specc into the TANK specc instead of TakeDown, place Battle Fury as a rank 80 Power for DPS specc.
III. Daily Powers
1. Switch Indomitable Strength from the TANK specc, into the DPS specc instead of Cresecendo, Switch Slam and have it replaced with Avalanche of Steel.
IV. Class Mechanics
There isn’t much to say about this, i belive it’s being done right.
DPS specc gets BattleRage + Sprint
TANK specc gets Unstoppable + Parrying
Really good job on this, and you guys listened to our feedback on this.
V.Class features:
1. Currently Trample the Fallen is still bugged, it doesn’t work against CC to immune targets, so that is a bummer, please fix this issue.
Also Destroyer class feat it is nothing without Focused Destroyer tier5 from Destroyer, can we please combine these to work as 1 class feat?
Steel Blitz is the only worth class feature currently out of the DPS specc, Wrathfull determination is quite weak, and Steel Resolve need a complete rework, or we could get the same one from the Fighter class.
Steadfast determination was useless as rank 4, now its a rank 1 class feat
As for Weapon master and Bravery i don’t understand why they got so heavily nerfed instead of giving flat % they are only giving Stat ratings, not to mention that they are like rank 1, instead of rank 4.
2. On the TANK specc there is literarly no class feature worth taking, please REWORK them, there is no way those class feats can help you to keep aggro, or stay alive to TANK, or keep your allies ALIVE. Thats what a TANK needs to do.
I wont say anything about the FEATS as of yet, because i haven’t really looked into what other classes feats are gettin, and i also don’t kno if the Barbarian should keep his self buffs of the Destroyer or not, but currently on how i read the FEATS all of them feel like tier 1 feats, they are really weak compared to what FEATS are on LIVE.
As for GENERAL there are 2 things that i am curious about.
1. Marathon runner: it says it’s increasing the runspeed by 3% , well TANK Specc can’t run.
2. Unbreakable WIll: Reduces Damage Dealt by 30%, adds 5000 Defense, and increase threat generation, i hope it’s just a tooltip error, or i don’t know how to read it, but tell me that the meaning of this is that TANK specc is taking 30% less dmg, right?
Please do these changes, the synergy between powers don’t feel right at all, and they still need alot of buffs atm, so atleast let’s get the Rotations right.
by the way i'm very disappointed to see these powers still exist in the game:
• Reaping Strike
• Steadfast determination
• Mighty Leap
• Restoring Strike
You either add a big effect on it or delete these powers because nobody will ever take them they're basically here for beginners to level up they're irrelevant.
As for the tanks spec it's still useless because it has no way to generate constant and viable aggro as of right now there is not enough sources of threat
I'll make another post later on which powers have way too low stat numbers
I have over 200k health. Woohoo. I ran up to a Cyclops, 1 -2 hits and I am Almost dead. I start attacking and like others have mentioned, damage was low.. although someone figured out how to 1 shot them with his class. Couldn't figure out who.
I took the tank spec. I could not hold agro, expecially with all the single target AT-Wills and that useless stand like a sitting duck charging up one hit no good. On live I use the At-Will that has broad horizontal strikes, can't remember the name offhand, and unless I miss my guess from the description it was moved to Dps... buh?
Blocking seems to work, I think, since when I held shift I would take 0 damage (bug?) so I could live through stuff if I blocked all the time.
I miss my roar, finding it in dps and untouchable by me was... upsetting.
for now
End of Line...
I'll certainly be examining the powers you called out to ensure they have a viable place in at least some builds. Barbarian is in the worst place of the three tanks, that being said, if you do try tanking, be sure to use some of the powers which state that they add additional threat, if you're having trouble keeping aggro. Daring Shout, Challenger's Slash and Takedown (for single target) should all be big helps in keeping aggro.
I plan to invest a lot of time into Barbarian adjustments over the next week.
> everything gotten nerfed all classes i guess since devs couldn't balance the game they went and nerfed everything to make all classes weak if this module goes live i'm quitting this game for good and never investing in it anymore of my time or money
>
> there is nothing i put my eyes on in the preview that is going for the better everything i see is a nerf left and right
> nerf to powers / buffs / companions / enchants and the list goes on
>
> this is really horrible
Send me your stuff before you quit please. Thanks!
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Unfortunately I can't help you if you want to tank without taking any tanking powers. You say that requiring tanking powers to tank is a stupid design, yet, if that weren't the case, tanking powers would have no purpose. The goal of almost any group is to get through the content as fast as possible, why take a mitigation or threat generating ability if you never need it?
That said, the more confident you become, and the better your damage though, the more you can swap in damaging powers. You can also swap in damaging powers if you're running with weaker DPS, as you won't need to struggle as much to maintain a threat lead. Do keep in mind though, that the more you can keep the enemy's attention, and prevent the healer from struggling to heal you, the more your team as a whole can focus on dealing optimal DPS.
Ereshkigal - 12k Tiefling SW
Aurora Ravensong - 11.6k Drow CW
That said, if you don't like tanking, by all means stick to Blademaster, there's no need to play Sentinel. Thanks for the feedback, we agree with you that Barbarian is not in a great place right now. I will be making some significant changes over the next few weeks.
I understand that people are pretty unhappy with reaping strike all around, so I'm going to definitely make some adjustments to it. As you say there are also quite a few barbarian encounter powers in a bad spot, that will also get adjustments. Such as mighty leap and punishing charge.
Haven't gotten to Brash Strike yet to test it, and you know reaping is...
Sure Strike is fairly alright though i'm sad to see the follow up hits dmg increase being reduced from its former self, but it would help keep it as a staple power to use for ST.
Do consider switching Takedown and grand fissure, GF doesn't make much sense for the dps path and Takedown would suit DPS more, though Takedown wouldn't make a good level 77 power so have Takedown take one of the following powers position Hidden Daggers or Battle Fury.
Steel Resolve should probably get a revamp, doesn't fit in the dps path, could possibly fit in the Tank, but I could never see it being used versus the rest.
Weapon Master adding 1,500 Crit doesn't seem like enough to justify it's use like the old WM, maybe think about giving it a decent boost. (Was typically used for those not at 100% crit back in older mods)
Maybe reconsider Unbreakable Wills self dmg reducer, dealing dmg still plays a part in keeping aggro.
In general from other peoples overall testing of the classes gwf currently falls shy above dc for dps, and the lowest tank out of the tanking classes. It lands about 56% as effective of the top dps HR(100%) being top with TR very close behind with 99%, then CW 84%, SW 70%, GF 68%, Pally 64%, GWF 56%, DC 50%. Overall Gwf would need a decent boost to get it up to where it's supposed to be in terms of dps.
His work, including the class reworks he was working on were distributed to various other designers. We gave those classes another pass and fixed up a bunch of issues and made various adjustments, but in the case of Barbarian there were unfinished and awkward designs that we hadn't had a change to return to until recently.
There are actually quite a few last minute changes that Barbarian received between the final closed beta preview build and this first preview build. Barbarian was in an even more awkward spot just a few weeks ago, and these changes were all improvements to the core design. However, I did focus a lot on making sure to bring in line some powers that were quite over the top. I did this, so that we didn't have to bring them to preview and immediately nerf them.
That said, I didn't necessarily have time to buff up everything else to compensate for these changes, and many powers are still in a very awkward state. So I'll be focused on addressing those issues as soon as possible. I'd like to thank all of our Barbarians for their patience in the next week or two while I get things into a better place.
It is the single weakest class, and my 5k hours are ending here. My other class is OP. not playing that either. Shame, was gonna put in a few bucks, to finish my r14s.