Well it sounds like Stormspell is .5 ICD per target per spell, so yeah it wont be as big of a nerf as people think (if thats true, havent tested).
If it is as bad as people think then its a preeeettyyy big damage loss, with no good CC buffs. I wouldnt mind doing very little if like ive said our CC actually worked well in PvP. (It dosent, unless the people we are playing against are badly geared or stupid)
Entangle doesn't work well, repel works fine though, and as long as shield remains unnerfed we can still just face tank everything but a TR and wait for it to come off of CD.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Everyone keeps complaining that CW CC doesn't work, and this is ludicrous. CWs have been locking down full tenacity geared DC players since mod 3. Just because you can't lockdown the 2 classes with CC breaks (TR and GWF) and that CC doesn't work facing a GF's shield, it does not mean he CC is bad. You can even lockdown HRs except every HR knows to target the CW controlling them and to use Disruptive Shot (almost no activation time) at the earliest window of opportunity.
AND they ignore 66% Tenacity FFS. CWs should just get off their crosses and use the wood to build a bridge and get over it already!
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I see a lot of people gloating in this thread who are going to be really disappointed when this goes live and they continue to get their asses kicked by wizards.
I see a lot of people gloating in this thread who are going to be really disappointed when this goes live and they continue to get their asses kicked by wizards.
You must play imaginary NW because none of the things you mention even comes close.
Also, if you mention stealth as being overpowered, you have no business being in a PvP balance discussion.
Why? You are focusing on an aspect of a class that by itself cannot kill you and cannot provide damage immunity to the TR.
Stormspell and Shield provides both to the CW. It was the most overpowered tandem in the game. It is followed closely by MI Saboteurs that can use piercing damage and hide behind the immunity window of ItC and also pop you with SE. So don't act as if I am blind to all other issues.
K...buddy?
So a shield spell that the CW gets, and it gets stronger when slotted into our TAB is not part of our class? Yet stealth is.
New role? Build for CCs. Go MoF/Oppressor. Way better in mass engagements a la Gauntlgrym than any SS/DPS oriented build. You build it right, and you'll start thinking the HR permaroot/daze is a joke.
Like, what do you think happens when EF you cast actually lasts some amount of time on your target even in PvP despite tenacity, and then recharges faster than your previous application ends? Build a full-CC Oppressor and find out.
Better yet, refer to the thread/link below and find out for yourselves:
The "Oppressor doesn't work any more" and "DPS-nuking is the only way to go for CWs" has been long a propaganda since mod3~mod4 days, when people simply flocked over to full DPS builds after stormspell hit the scene. Since then, nobody has questioned if its true, everybody blindly followed a set path as if was a set dogma.
Well, it ain't. Apparently it also took someone outside the traditional CW players to think out of the box and test stuff to see the old claims and myths are really true or not.
...
Toting around your 15-megaton tactical nuke and chest-thumping about how you can down any tough opponent within a few rotations... is not a bad thing by itself. Getting kills and downing opponents is certainly one way to win fights and matches. But CWs, ask yourselves: "Is this really my role?" We have plenty of DPS in the game that can take the CW's place, but nobody controls like the CW can, and I dare say I've proven that the CONTROL Wizard, is really a CONTROL Wizard.
There are a few CC heavy classes in this game. Mod5 scoundrel TR was one of those, the Trapper HR is currently one of those. But a full-CC Oppressor -- it's at least on par with both of those, or even more powerful when comparing its power to CC. As long as I'm not overwhelmed, nobody moves away unless I allow them to (or, has innate CC breakers). Even those with CC breakers are continuously disrupted every moment their CC-breaker/immunity effect ends.
I've been the cause of deaths of hundreds of OPals and DCs by now, and since my Oppressor build is still relatively unknown, they'll probably think they were just unlucky how so many CCs were coordinated against them. Well, usually they're wrong. It was one guy that locked down those OPals and DCs and shut them out of the fight to their deaths, and that was done by a Oppressor. You have a DC or OPal that takes like 5~6 people to down in your game? I can do it with the assist of just two good DPS guys, faster than those 5~6 people can take it down.
...
No, I'm not saying I'm the new meta. I'm not saying all the testings are finished, or this will be the most powerful CW build ever. I AM saying that when it comes to PvP and roles, many people, including the best of players, can make assumptions about something because nobody really questioned them until now.. and I AM saying that there's an alternative.
So don't anyone ever say "I'm a CONTROL Wizard but other classes control better than me". The current standard CW builds suck in CCs because nobody really invests and builds for CCs, since nobody thought about what would happen when there actually came a time when you cannot kill people off easily in 1~2 rotations.
Maybe it's time to really think about what the CW can do, and there IS something it can do way better than other classes. It already has a role in CCs -- it was simply ignored through this whole time because nobody bothered to find out by themselves.
Your build might be good, but your videos are just a bunch of short clips of you hitting people from behind while they are already engaged with your teammates so it's hard to tell.
Your build might be good, but your videos are just a bunch of short clips of you hitting people from behind while they are already engaged with your teammates so it's hard to tell.
Now that's a new one... :rolleyes: So, my efforts to secure tactical advantages, gain the initiative, maximize the impact of CCs within a mass combat environment -- like any aspiring CW should -- supposedly undermines the validity of the worth of CCs the CW can dish out.
What is it exactly that's hard to tell? The fact that a CW can near-perma control even Paladins or DCs to have them focused down quickly? Or that I near perma-control from the lowliest PuG to even premade level players?
You aren't gaining the initiative from what I saw, you're joining in fights your team is already in the process of winning. How can we even know you're controlling anyone when 4 other people are attacking someone at the same time you are? You can't find a single instance of you soloing a node to put in your video highlight package?
You aren't gaining the initiative from what I saw, you're joining in fights your team is already in the process of winning. How can we even know you're controlling anyone when 4 other people are attacking someone at the same time you are?
Count the number of CWs around me and see how many there are to be casting EF and IT at that speed, and then count/match the number of EF-frozen-shatter texts popping up to my attacks, which consecutively lock up my target. I'm pretty sure you didn't see all the vids throughout page 1~3, or, you're just biased against with a theory/result that's not to your liking.
Completely understandable, since any team-based builds are usually looked down upon in this game. But do sift through the vids and see if the team was already "winning." In most cases I'm one of the guys that arrives the fastest at the scene which needs most help, since I don't care about those 300 pts. and I don't stick around a cleared node to waste time. PuG guys can capture the nodes we've cleared, I'm better off for the team elsewhere.
See if the situations portrayed in the vids are ones we're "already" winning. More likely I arrive at troubled nodes and help out clear them by offering decisive controls, at which point the other PuGs arrive en masse to share the spoils of victory -- I don't have any control over people flocking to my position after the tide of the battle has already been decided.
You can't find a single instance of you soloing a node to put in your video highlight package?
See, that's another thing. Why do you need a CC-oriented CW to prove its worth by having it solo a node? IMO it's a fixed mentality -- you guys have seen CWs having tab-shield level defense + meganuking for so long, that you automatically measure combatworthiness under those terms.
If you curb your doubts for a moment and suppose that what I am saying is true, suppose that while I've given up damage but in turn gained enough CC power to turn DCs into permafrosty popsicles, then does a CW that can do that have to prove its "role" by trying to do the same thing as what SS CWs would do? Luring 1vs1 fights and blasting people away?
I figured out what our new role in PvP will be. With the huge damage nerf to storm spell and no buff in other areas and control powers that gets deflected/resisted 90% of the time the only thing left for a CW in PvP will be kiting another class around a node.
So the new builds will be defense/deflect with stamina regen!
Discuss the new role of a CW!
I did 15 pvp after the change.There is no difference for me. I mean always i liked to control, entagling force my teamate if is a dps finish the job then repel or other control. And also in some cases with a good timing on spells i am able to be and damage dealer even with the valindra set which i use.
My storm spells hit from 8k up to 20k maybe and more depend on self-party buffs.
I can give an example why control is useful.
THE scenario when i am alone to 2 base i can annoy the enemies lets say they are two i can use entagling to the one repel to the most dangerous and keep that order till someone come for help.
Also for hard times i have the valindra main artifact and the opressive force.
General pvp is teamwork if are 3 enemies to the middle should be here at least 2 poeple.
Often i see poeple run to 1 3 and leave me alone to deal with 3 enemies at middle ? what am i a god?
Even in that case with right timing on controls powers you can at least delay them till someone comes.
Hey if you're happy with your build then great, that's all that matters, but have you actually played the other paths to compare?
Again, compare what exactly? Do I need to compare the damage or how well you can 1vs1 with others?
I'm not trying to be an <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on purpose here, but you're asking all the wrong questions. Suggesting a new role in the form of CCs, is simply because the opening post laid down the sarcastic doom&gloom which just takes for granted that being your team's self-propelled artillery turret is the only effective role of the CW.
I'm asking the players to acknowledge that the roots of the CW, it's namesake, lies with CCs, and it exists in a viable form, and I shi* you not when I say I've semi-perma-controlled from the lowest PuGs, to even premade level players from like ME or EoA or any other smaller but still competent guilds that operate in my timezone. I've faced down trapper HR members from those premades and won the "who gets to permacontrol the other guy" contest.
It's a little known function, which most of the 'traditional' CW players are just shutting their eyes, covering their ears, and turning their heads away from as if it didn't exist, and they continue to make remarks and statements based on their dogma. I'm simply saying it isn't true. The SS-CW is still a strong DPS, and besides being DPS the CW also has another very important role, and it should not be overlooked or ignored on purpose as it is being now.
CC-CWs work, and it works to the magnitude of the standards of 'viability' most skeptical, conservative PvPers like to set up before accepting some new build or tactic as being a real alternative. Sometimes even the most powerful SS CWs may have problems in downing a DC or a OPal with just pure DPS. The OPP CW can offer an alternative.
That's all I'm saying. My apologies if my intent to announce to the PvP community my findings, was done in an overly zealous manner.
I wanted to try a mof oppressor orb of imposition with transcendent terror for the lulz but i have to gear my cw back a bit so it will not happen anytime soon
I wanted to try a mof oppressor orb of imposition with transcendent terror for the lulz but i have to gear my cw back a bit so it will not happen anytime soon
Then be prepared to receive hate PMs from DCs. Happening to me a lot.
Comments
Entangle doesn't work well, repel works fine though, and as long as shield remains unnerfed we can still just face tank everything but a TR and wait for it to come off of CD.
AND they ignore 66% Tenacity FFS. CWs should just get off their crosses and use the wood to build a bridge and get over it already!
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
+1 on this
So a shield spell that the CW gets, and it gets stronger when slotted into our TAB is not part of our class? Yet stealth is.
Okay, suuure.
Like, what do you think happens when EF you cast actually lasts some amount of time on your target even in PvP despite tenacity, and then recharges faster than your previous application ends? Build a full-CC Oppressor and find out.
Better yet, refer to the thread/link below and find out for yourselves:
[PvP] Yes, Oppressor works thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?949081-PvP-Yes-Oppressor-works
...
The "Oppressor doesn't work any more" and "DPS-nuking is the only way to go for CWs" has been long a propaganda since mod3~mod4 days, when people simply flocked over to full DPS builds after stormspell hit the scene. Since then, nobody has questioned if its true, everybody blindly followed a set path as if was a set dogma.
Well, it ain't. Apparently it also took someone outside the traditional CW players to think out of the box and test stuff to see the old claims and myths are really true or not.
...
Toting around your 15-megaton tactical nuke and chest-thumping about how you can down any tough opponent within a few rotations... is not a bad thing by itself. Getting kills and downing opponents is certainly one way to win fights and matches. But CWs, ask yourselves: "Is this really my role?" We have plenty of DPS in the game that can take the CW's place, but nobody controls like the CW can, and I dare say I've proven that the CONTROL Wizard, is really a CONTROL Wizard.
There are a few CC heavy classes in this game. Mod5 scoundrel TR was one of those, the Trapper HR is currently one of those. But a full-CC Oppressor -- it's at least on par with both of those, or even more powerful when comparing its power to CC. As long as I'm not overwhelmed, nobody moves away unless I allow them to (or, has innate CC breakers). Even those with CC breakers are continuously disrupted every moment their CC-breaker/immunity effect ends.
I've been the cause of deaths of hundreds of OPals and DCs by now, and since my Oppressor build is still relatively unknown, they'll probably think they were just unlucky how so many CCs were coordinated against them. Well, usually they're wrong. It was one guy that locked down those OPals and DCs and shut them out of the fight to their deaths, and that was done by a Oppressor. You have a DC or OPal that takes like 5~6 people to down in your game? I can do it with the assist of just two good DPS guys, faster than those 5~6 people can take it down.
...
No, I'm not saying I'm the new meta. I'm not saying all the testings are finished, or this will be the most powerful CW build ever. I AM saying that when it comes to PvP and roles, many people, including the best of players, can make assumptions about something because nobody really questioned them until now.. and I AM saying that there's an alternative.
So don't anyone ever say "I'm a CONTROL Wizard but other classes control better than me". The current standard CW builds suck in CCs because nobody really invests and builds for CCs, since nobody thought about what would happen when there actually came a time when you cannot kill people off easily in 1~2 rotations.
Maybe it's time to really think about what the CW can do, and there IS something it can do way better than other classes. It already has a role in CCs -- it was simply ignored through this whole time because nobody bothered to find out by themselves.
Yep. They certainly made good popsicles better than I had my feet tied down.
(...even with stuff like the broken undodgeable roots, bullshi* Disruption Arrow, and bugs related with the permastunning technique...)
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Now that's a new one... :rolleyes: So, my efforts to secure tactical advantages, gain the initiative, maximize the impact of CCs within a mass combat environment -- like any aspiring CW should -- supposedly undermines the validity of the worth of CCs the CW can dish out.
What is it exactly that's hard to tell? The fact that a CW can near-perma control even Paladins or DCs to have them focused down quickly? Or that I near perma-control from the lowliest PuG to even premade level players?
Count the number of CWs around me and see how many there are to be casting EF and IT at that speed, and then count/match the number of EF-frozen-shatter texts popping up to my attacks, which consecutively lock up my target. I'm pretty sure you didn't see all the vids throughout page 1~3, or, you're just biased against with a theory/result that's not to your liking.
Completely understandable, since any team-based builds are usually looked down upon in this game. But do sift through the vids and see if the team was already "winning." In most cases I'm one of the guys that arrives the fastest at the scene which needs most help, since I don't care about those 300 pts. and I don't stick around a cleared node to waste time. PuG guys can capture the nodes we've cleared, I'm better off for the team elsewhere.
See if the situations portrayed in the vids are ones we're "already" winning. More likely I arrive at troubled nodes and help out clear them by offering decisive controls, at which point the other PuGs arrive en masse to share the spoils of victory -- I don't have any control over people flocking to my position after the tide of the battle has already been decided.
See, that's another thing. Why do you need a CC-oriented CW to prove its worth by having it solo a node? IMO it's a fixed mentality -- you guys have seen CWs having tab-shield level defense + meganuking for so long, that you automatically measure combatworthiness under those terms.
If you curb your doubts for a moment and suppose that what I am saying is true, suppose that while I've given up damage but in turn gained enough CC power to turn DCs into permafrosty popsicles, then does a CW that can do that have to prove its "role" by trying to do the same thing as what SS CWs would do? Luring 1vs1 fights and blasting people away?
I did 15 pvp after the change.There is no difference for me. I mean always i liked to control, entagling force my teamate if is a dps finish the job then repel or other control. And also in some cases with a good timing on spells i am able to be and damage dealer even with the valindra set which i use.
My storm spells hit from 8k up to 20k maybe and more depend on self-party buffs.
I can give an example why control is useful.
THE scenario when i am alone to 2 base i can annoy the enemies lets say they are two i can use entagling to the one repel to the most dangerous and keep that order till someone come for help.
Also for hard times i have the valindra main artifact and the opressive force.
General pvp is teamwork if are 3 enemies to the middle should be here at least 2 poeple.
Often i see poeple run to 1 3 and leave me alone to deal with 3 enemies at middle ? what am i a god?
Even in that case with right timing on controls powers you can at least delay them till someone comes.
Thanks.
Again, compare what exactly? Do I need to compare the damage or how well you can 1vs1 with others?
I'm not trying to be an <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on purpose here, but you're asking all the wrong questions. Suggesting a new role in the form of CCs, is simply because the opening post laid down the sarcastic doom&gloom which just takes for granted that being your team's self-propelled artillery turret is the only effective role of the CW.
I'm asking the players to acknowledge that the roots of the CW, it's namesake, lies with CCs, and it exists in a viable form, and I shi* you not when I say I've semi-perma-controlled from the lowest PuGs, to even premade level players from like ME or EoA or any other smaller but still competent guilds that operate in my timezone. I've faced down trapper HR members from those premades and won the "who gets to permacontrol the other guy" contest.
It's a little known function, which most of the 'traditional' CW players are just shutting their eyes, covering their ears, and turning their heads away from as if it didn't exist, and they continue to make remarks and statements based on their dogma. I'm simply saying it isn't true. The SS-CW is still a strong DPS, and besides being DPS the CW also has another very important role, and it should not be overlooked or ignored on purpose as it is being now.
CC-CWs work, and it works to the magnitude of the standards of 'viability' most skeptical, conservative PvPers like to set up before accepting some new build or tactic as being a real alternative. Sometimes even the most powerful SS CWs may have problems in downing a DC or a OPal with just pure DPS. The OPP CW can offer an alternative.
That's all I'm saying. My apologies if my intent to announce to the PvP community my findings, was done in an overly zealous manner.
Steel and Magic
Then be prepared to receive hate PMs from DCs.
Yup, unless you were running vorpal damage is pretty much the same as it was.