Well my friend you are in for a rude awakening when Mod 6 reaches Xbox.
If you want to rage over not being able to dodge Lashing Blade by a bad TR. Wait till good TR's in Mod 6 are crapping all over you with just Cloud of Steel.
And that just proved my point even more..and I see a mad exodus to other mmo on xbox one...
NW certainly isn't for everyone.
As I am currently on the Neverwinter Welfare Program, feel free to donate all your phat l00tz into my Mailbox when you exit this terrible devil game.
> Alysin Chains@munkness81
As I am currently on the Neverwinter Welfare Program, feel free to donate all your phat l00tz into my Mailbox when you exit this terrible devil game.
> Alysin Chains@munkness81
Thanks in advance!
How about and eviction notice out mommies basement!
Just stop, munkey81. He says TRs are OP and we all must just accept his opinion. He can't produce any proof, yet he "knows" it's true. The likely reality is he just isn't any good, but he doesn't -- CAN'T -- believe that so that clearly isn't the issue here. Sure, what he's saying is happening is impossible, but that doesn't matter because he believes it. He really, really believes it. It's a lie, but he still believes it so hard. No amount of facts, not to mention the complete lack of evidence on his part, will change his mind.
Just stop, munkey81. He says TRs are OP and we all must just accept his opinion. He can't produce any proof, yet he "knows" it's true. The likely reality is he just isn't any good, but he doesn't -- CAN'T -- believe that so that clearly isn't the issue here. Sure, what he's saying is happening is impossible, but that doesn't matter because he believes it. He really, really believes it. It's a lie, but he still believes it so hard. No amount of facts, not to mention the complete lack of evidence on his part, will change his mind.
Just nod, smile and wave...
Hey low minded moron..I do not, nor does any other player need to make and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to appease you notion..we now what is happening..we don't need to nor care to prove it to you..we are voice are opinion and facts..you don't have to like it. It is what it is. I seen and and been through it and then being told that I didn't see what I saw by you..just pisses me off..I NEED NOT PROVE IT TO YOU *******!
Well, the truth often offends. You might be upset by the truth, but it's still the truth... and the truth in this case is what you are describing is impossible. You are, however, right about one thing, you don't need to prove anything to other players. It might be good to show even a little bit of evidence supporting what you're claiming for the devs though... assuming you want them to actually look into it. Saying things like you "just know and others know" won't cut it.
Well, the truth often offends. You might be upset by the truth, but it's still the truth... and the truth in this case is what you are describing is impossible. You are, however, right about one thing, you don't need to prove anything to other players. It might be good to show even a little bit of evidence supporting what you're claiming for the devs though... assuming you want them to actually look into it. Saying things like you "just know and others know" won't cut it.
Good luck.
Well if what you saying it is impossible..that means they are using hacks or cheats..and the videos will go to another source and they will be banned..simple as that.
You obviously have the social skills of a troll. This is my last post on the topic, but I want to address your some of the things you've said.
I am a "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>"
I assume this is because I called bull **** on your claims. Just want to also point out that I also started a thread over a week ago trying to start a "responsible" discussion on balancing the TR (see here). I think it is important to parse out the facts and the experience of those who PvP a lot from the whining of a few who don't understand the game, or can't handle losing.
I am a "cheater"
I don't abide by cheating. The only TR cheat I know of is the SoD glitch with plaguefire enchant. I use vorpal.
Munk is a "know it all living in his momma's basement"
I don't know Munk from a hole in the ground, but a basic familiarity with the forums should quickly make it apparent that he is one of the most respected PvPers in the game. What kind of credentials do you have, besides being a *****? He also tries to help build the PvP community (see his excellent beginner's guide here).
zer0flux is a "low minded moron"
Again, don't know zer0 from a hole in the ground, but he is very active in these forums, helping others with all kinds of questions, and even sharing his build with the community.
You obviously have the social skills of a troll. This is my last post on the topic, but I want to address your some of the things you've said.
I am a "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>"
I assume this is because I called bull **** on your claims. Just want to also point out that I also started a thread over a week ago trying to start a "responsible" discussion on balancing the TR (see here). I think it is important to parse out the facts and the experience of those who PvP a lot from the whining of a few who don't understand the game, or can't handle losing.
I am a "cheater"
I don't abide by cheating. The only TR cheat I know of is the SoD glitch with plaguefire enchant. I use vorpal.
Munk is a "know it all living in his momma's basement"
I don't know Munk from a hole in the ground, but a basic familiarity with the forums should quickly make it apparent that he is one of the most respected PvPers in the game. What kind of credentials do you have, besides being a *****? He also tries to help build the PvP community (see his excellent beginner's guide here).
zer0flux is a "low minded moron"
Again, don't know zer0 from a hole in the ground, but he is very active in these forums, helping others with all kinds of questions, and even sharing his build with the community.
Well yes they are..if they are stating what I saw wasn't what I saw.....bottom line is you say I didn't see, or impossible to see what I saw..I reply in like manner. Do fact that they say I didn't witness or had what happen happen to me, make one conclude hey are hiding the fact that they are doing the same..thus cheating by there own compliance that it is impossible. I have no respect for anyone that says I didn't see what I see...when I did. Any the only one I need to show video proof to has it and they will be addressing the situation.
'm am gonna call you a moron....
Well yes they are..if they are stating what I saw wasn't what I saw.....bottom line is you say I didn't see, or impossible to see what I saw..I reply in like manner. Do fact that they say I didn't witness or had what happen happen to me, make one conclude hey are hiding the fact that they are doing the same..thus cheating by there own compliance that it is impossible. I have no respect for anyone that says I didn't see what I see...when I did. Any the only one I need to show video proof to has it and they will be addressing the situation.
'm am gonna call you a moron....
Funny how all the TR mains are the only ones who disagree with this thread... stereotypes are established for a reason, TR have been called the broken class because it's so easy to play. 18-0 with my TR in my first pvp game, I wish I could say the same for my GWF .
Funny how all the TR mains are the only ones who disagree with this thread... stereotypes are established for a reason, TR have been called the broken class because it's so easy to play. 18-0 with my TR in my first pvp game, I wish I could say the same for my GWF .
TR's pre 60 certainly shine against the average player or new player I will certainly agree. After lvl 60 when people have the proper gear to fight in PvP, the average TR's are no where near as powerful and more often than not get crapped on by experienced players. They balance out quite well in the end game.
You got 18-0 in your first PvP match. That's nice. I'm assuming it was against pugs. Run a premade at lvl 60 against another premade team and I guarantee it wont be as easy. The end game currently is very balanced. SW's need a little lovin and so does GWF. Taking away the Shadow of Demise glitch, TR's are very balanced. In the higher end PvP community you wont see very many TR's using the SoD glitch anyway, as its greatly frowned upon by everyone.
The problem with PvP is the mentality of average players, and hard core PvP'rs are very different. Your average player will continue to run all by himself to the very same node where a TR previously has killed him, and continue to die. Then come on the forums and cry that a TR constantly beats him up in a 1 vs 1. A seasoned PvP'r will adjust tactics and/or encounters to fight said TR, call for back up, or switch out a particular class in their group that may be able to fight the TR more affectively.
Why should you have to bring 2 people to kill 1 guy you say? Well, it is no different than calling for back up to kill an unkillable DC. Certain builds, with the right gear and skill are very hard to kill, no madder the class. Skill for example, a TR in Iron Lotus. He plays a very good high regen high health build TR. I play a scoundrel TR. I feel that I play my class very well, but Skill will generally always end up killing me in a 1 vs 1 fight. I don't come on the forums and complain that TR's are OP, or perma-stealth is cheating. I call for back up. Or I switch out with a CW that has Chaotic Growth, or a DC. Because they can more affectively fight him with that particular build.
PvP is 5 vs 5. Not 1 vs 5. If a person cant grasp this fact, no madder the gear they are always going to do poorly in PvP in NW. Coordination is what wins matches, not one single player.
Prior MMO players understand this concept and that is why they generally do very well in PvP. NW being the first MMO on console, console players generally have the Call of Duty FPS mentality and constantly go for the kill, or care about there K/D ratio. Controlling the nodes in NW is how you win..kills are just a bonus.
NW being the first MMO on console, console players generally have the Call of Duty FPS mentality and constantly go for the kill, or care about there K/D ratio. Controlling the nodes in NW is how you win..kills are just a bonus.
Exactly! Focusing on the objectives and playing as a team is the easiest way to "balance" the game. So some TR keeps killing you on node 3? Great! Keep him occupied on that node (and keep the node contested) while the rest of your team locks down the other two nodes. Controlling two nodes, or really controlling even one node and keeping the other two contested, always results in a win -- even if your whole team has fewer kills than one guy on the other side.
Team-based, objective-type PvP isn't deathmatch, so no one should expect to be an effective lone wolf killer running as a GF instead of playing as a cohesive group. Only two classes are really effective as lone wolves -- TR and HR -- but even they do better if they work with their teams instead of trying to improve their K/D ratio. K/D doesn't matter... not even a little; only captures and total points matter.
TR's pre 60 certainly shine against the average player or new player I will certainly agree. After lvl 60 when people have the proper gear to fight in PvP, the average TR's are no where near as powerful and more often than not get crapped on by experienced players. They balance out quite well in the end game.
This x1,000. This, I believe, is far and away is the most salient point in any TR balance discussion.
Look: TRs are a strong class. TRs have a great tool-box, and are a pretty forgiving class to play due to their crazy dodges, stealth, immunity and disables. I truly feel it is easier to do well on a TR as an inexperienced player, than it is to do well as an inexperienced player with many other classes. I also believe that it is easier to do well as an under-geared TR than it is to do well as an equally under-geared <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Take two inexperienced and under-geared players, and TRs definitely have an advantage.
BUT. That advantage starts to disappear as players build experience, and solidify their gear. That advantage further disappears as one moves away from random PUG matches toward co-ordinated pre-mades. End-game PvP is truly a different kind of game. And I think 99% of the disagreement about TRs comes from people who are effectively talking about different games.
TL;DR - get to endgame and play there for a while before forming your opinions (or "stereotypes" as challenjourgg rightly calls them).
So much bull...only one that saying Rogue aren't op are the one using them as a main class..I just witness one last night pretty much solo the boss on epic dreadvault..yes solo
I can solo the same boss with my SW... yes solo. What's your point? Good players can do wondrous things; the kinds of things that create envy in the hearts of not-so-good players.
0
Options
werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2015
<---HR here
I **** on rogues all day long (except the ones that use ITC, fair enough though they gotta counter me somehow >.> )
OP has no idea what he's talking about and is just really bad at PvP
look at that OP someone that doesnt play a TR is saying they're fine. another one of your false notions debunked.
A few things here.
First, I never said nerf TRs into the ground, only politely suggested some changes that would balance out the current level of game.
Second, I actually play all the classes, but I PVP most with an HR. Yes, when caught off guard, a TR can be taken down, but that is true of every class in the game. The issues I addressed in my original post were small things that give rogues easy ways to get out of a situation when they are outmatched.
Third, it's come to my attention as to why a lot of these issues seem overly glaring at the moment. The current incarnation of the game is balanced for Mod 5 (I think that's correct), but yet the gear level hasn't arrived at that level of damage tuning. Apparently, we're getting numbers designed for characters 2 expansions/ mods from now, and lack the gear to add to the survivability. If this is true, we have to wait a little while for things to balance out.
In the end, I can't blame people for flocking to the TR class. There is a reason why there are so many of them in PVP, regardless of what people say to defend them. However, that being said, it was just poor judgement on the developers/programmers to release the game in such an abstract condition.
Maybe your idea of One Shot is different than mine.
One shot to me, means you do One single encounter or ability/daily, and take an enemy from 100% life to 0% resulting in death.
If you agree that is what "One Shot" means, than no my friend. It isn't happening.
TR's have two potential abilities that "can" result in a true one shot. One being Shocking Execution(a daily in the MI Paragon), and two being Lashing Blade. As I am a WK TR and do not use Shocking, I am unsure if it takes the TR out of Stealth(It should, but I am not 100% sure).
Lashing Blade however, will immediately remove the TR from stealth. Its not a maybe, or kinda...it's fact.
It is possible that a Sab spec TR could potentially one shot someone with Lashing, then proc One with Shadows...but it seems highly unlikely. As per the PvP community, generally the newer TR's will be running an Executioner Spec(one shot build), and the more experienced PvP players run Sab Spec. That being said, using Lashing as a Sab TR is a silly thing to do, and the chances of you running into a Sab spec'd TR with the gear to one shot you with Lashing...will not be using Lashing, as that's not typically the play-style of the build.
I do however know one TR who uses Lashing as Sab. But the way you talk about "TR's continually one shotting people and staying in stealth", is not common at all.
I recommend doing your best to read your combat log after these things happen. You might discover the truth behind this silliness
This in fact DOES happen. I've seen it, and I've recieved it. I have 1000 tenacity warlock, i was one shotted by what would appear to have been a 15k+ rogue . Does not happens often but, it in fact , DOES happen. Now, that's with an 11k gear score and 1000 tenacity. Sure there are a few things I could do to help this, ( I've been needing to reroll so i can stack constitution for example ). Now imagine that same rogue 14k+.... He will be one shotting sub 10k GS left and right, and if he does not one shot a simple 2nd ability will finish ( unless it's a stun lock, then you will be stun locked until you die ). Maybe the BIGGEST problem is that MatchMaking does not appear to take into consideration gear...... In other words, this is the ULTIMATE pay 2 win game, especially if you roll a rogue. So maybe the rogue itself is not the issue, but something is broken, no matter how you cut it.
This in fact DOES happen. I've seen it, and I've recieved it. I have 1000 tenacity warlock, i was one shotted by what would appear to have been a 15k+ rogue . Does not happens often but, it in fact , DOES happen. Now, that's with an 11k gear score and 1000 tenacity. Sure there are a few things I could do to help this, ( I've been needing to reroll so i can stack constitution for example ). Now imagine that same rogue 14k+.... He will be one shotting sub 10k GS left and right, and if he does not one shot a simple 2nd ability will finish ( unless it's a stun lock, then you will be stun locked until you die ). Maybe the BIGGEST problem is that MatchMaking does not appear to take into consideration gear...... In other words, this is the ULTIMATE pay 2 win game, especially if you roll a rogue. So maybe the rogue itself is not the issue, but something is broken, no matter how you cut it.
I didn't say TR's couldn't one-shot anyone. I said them one shotting someone and staying in stealth while they do it is rare.
Shocking Execution can be used in stealth, and doesn't take you out of stealth. Shocking Execution can one-shot lower health players. That's the only ability(Daily) TR's have that can one shot someone and remain in stealth.
Comments
And that just proved my point even more..and I see a mad exodus to other mmo on xbox one...
NW certainly isn't for everyone.
As I am currently on the Neverwinter Welfare Program, feel free to donate all your phat l00tz into my Mailbox when you exit this terrible devil game.
> Alysin Chains@munkness81
Thanks in advance!
How about and eviction notice out mommies basement!
Just nod, smile and wave...
Hey low minded moron..I do not, nor does any other player need to make and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to appease you notion..we now what is happening..we don't need to nor care to prove it to you..we are voice are opinion and facts..you don't have to like it. It is what it is. I seen and and been through it and then being told that I didn't see what I saw by you..just pisses me off..I NEED NOT PROVE IT TO YOU *******!
Good luck.
<<<<<<<<kids who live in basements don't drive $80,000 Trucks 😘
You obviously have the social skills of a troll. This is my last post on the topic, but I want to address your some of the things you've said.
I assume this is because I called bull **** on your claims. Just want to also point out that I also started a thread over a week ago trying to start a "responsible" discussion on balancing the TR (see here). I think it is important to parse out the facts and the experience of those who PvP a lot from the whining of a few who don't understand the game, or can't handle losing.
I don't abide by cheating. The only TR cheat I know of is the SoD glitch with plaguefire enchant. I use vorpal.
I don't know Munk from a hole in the ground, but a basic familiarity with the forums should quickly make it apparent that he is one of the most respected PvPers in the game. What kind of credentials do you have, besides being a *****? He also tries to help build the PvP community (see his excellent beginner's guide here).
Again, don't know zer0 from a hole in the ground, but he is very active in these forums, helping others with all kinds of questions, and even sharing his build with the community.
Or maybe that's why they do!! Lol
'm am gonna call you a moron....
You make me smile 😍
Everything else is meh.
Relentless -LVL 60 GWF-
<DENIAL>
TR's pre 60 certainly shine against the average player or new player I will certainly agree. After lvl 60 when people have the proper gear to fight in PvP, the average TR's are no where near as powerful and more often than not get crapped on by experienced players. They balance out quite well in the end game.
You got 18-0 in your first PvP match. That's nice. I'm assuming it was against pugs. Run a premade at lvl 60 against another premade team and I guarantee it wont be as easy. The end game currently is very balanced. SW's need a little lovin and so does GWF. Taking away the Shadow of Demise glitch, TR's are very balanced. In the higher end PvP community you wont see very many TR's using the SoD glitch anyway, as its greatly frowned upon by everyone.
The problem with PvP is the mentality of average players, and hard core PvP'rs are very different. Your average player will continue to run all by himself to the very same node where a TR previously has killed him, and continue to die. Then come on the forums and cry that a TR constantly beats him up in a 1 vs 1. A seasoned PvP'r will adjust tactics and/or encounters to fight said TR, call for back up, or switch out a particular class in their group that may be able to fight the TR more affectively.
Why should you have to bring 2 people to kill 1 guy you say? Well, it is no different than calling for back up to kill an unkillable DC. Certain builds, with the right gear and skill are very hard to kill, no madder the class. Skill for example, a TR in Iron Lotus. He plays a very good high regen high health build TR. I play a scoundrel TR. I feel that I play my class very well, but Skill will generally always end up killing me in a 1 vs 1 fight. I don't come on the forums and complain that TR's are OP, or perma-stealth is cheating. I call for back up. Or I switch out with a CW that has Chaotic Growth, or a DC. Because they can more affectively fight him with that particular build.
PvP is 5 vs 5. Not 1 vs 5. If a person cant grasp this fact, no madder the gear they are always going to do poorly in PvP in NW. Coordination is what wins matches, not one single player.
Prior MMO players understand this concept and that is why they generally do very well in PvP. NW being the first MMO on console, console players generally have the Call of Duty FPS mentality and constantly go for the kill, or care about there K/D ratio. Controlling the nodes in NW is how you win..kills are just a bonus.
Team-based, objective-type PvP isn't deathmatch, so no one should expect to be an effective lone wolf killer running as a GF instead of playing as a cohesive group. Only two classes are really effective as lone wolves -- TR and HR -- but even they do better if they work with their teams instead of trying to improve their K/D ratio. K/D doesn't matter... not even a little; only captures and total points matter.
This x1,000. This, I believe, is far and away is the most salient point in any TR balance discussion.
Look: TRs are a strong class. TRs have a great tool-box, and are a pretty forgiving class to play due to their crazy dodges, stealth, immunity and disables. I truly feel it is easier to do well on a TR as an inexperienced player, than it is to do well as an inexperienced player with many other classes. I also believe that it is easier to do well as an under-geared TR than it is to do well as an equally under-geared <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Take two inexperienced and under-geared players, and TRs definitely have an advantage.
BUT. That advantage starts to disappear as players build experience, and solidify their gear. That advantage further disappears as one moves away from random PUG matches toward co-ordinated pre-mades. End-game PvP is truly a different kind of game. And I think 99% of the disagreement about TRs comes from people who are effectively talking about different games.
TL;DR - get to endgame and play there for a while before forming your opinions (or "stereotypes" as challenjourgg rightly calls them).
I **** on rogues all day long (except the ones that use ITC, fair enough though they gotta counter me somehow >.> )
OP has no idea what he's talking about and is just really bad at PvP
look at that OP someone that doesnt play a TR is saying they're fine. another one of your false notions debunked.
First, I never said nerf TRs into the ground, only politely suggested some changes that would balance out the current level of game.
Second, I actually play all the classes, but I PVP most with an HR. Yes, when caught off guard, a TR can be taken down, but that is true of every class in the game. The issues I addressed in my original post were small things that give rogues easy ways to get out of a situation when they are outmatched.
Third, it's come to my attention as to why a lot of these issues seem overly glaring at the moment. The current incarnation of the game is balanced for Mod 5 (I think that's correct), but yet the gear level hasn't arrived at that level of damage tuning. Apparently, we're getting numbers designed for characters 2 expansions/ mods from now, and lack the gear to add to the survivability. If this is true, we have to wait a little while for things to balance out.
In the end, I can't blame people for flocking to the TR class. There is a reason why there are so many of them in PVP, regardless of what people say to defend them. However, that being said, it was just poor judgement on the developers/programmers to release the game in such an abstract condition.
This in fact DOES happen. I've seen it, and I've recieved it. I have 1000 tenacity warlock, i was one shotted by what would appear to have been a 15k+ rogue . Does not happens often but, it in fact , DOES happen. Now, that's with an 11k gear score and 1000 tenacity. Sure there are a few things I could do to help this, ( I've been needing to reroll so i can stack constitution for example ). Now imagine that same rogue 14k+.... He will be one shotting sub 10k GS left and right, and if he does not one shot a simple 2nd ability will finish ( unless it's a stun lock, then you will be stun locked until you die ). Maybe the BIGGEST problem is that MatchMaking does not appear to take into consideration gear...... In other words, this is the ULTIMATE pay 2 win game, especially if you roll a rogue. So maybe the rogue itself is not the issue, but something is broken, no matter how you cut it.
I didn't say TR's couldn't one-shot anyone. I said them one shotting someone and staying in stealth while they do it is rare.
Shocking Execution can be used in stealth, and doesn't take you out of stealth. Shocking Execution can one-shot lower health players. That's the only ability(Daily) TR's have that can one shot someone and remain in stealth.