Two players quitting the game has nothing to do with mod 6 one shot fiesta. There's still plenty of us making guides for people, and it has nothing to do with mod 6. In contrast alot of people need more guides now since mod 6 came out.
The difficulty should be kept but changed to another aspect. Dying from one shots and traps are annoying at best. I'd rather traps do 50k damage than having to hotkey kits
I have no problem with the game being more difficult, me or my guildies solo'ing 5 man dungeons before was ridiculous, but to make things one shot you as soon as they turn around to you is bad. It's just a DPS race of who kills who first without the party wiping, how many times have I finished a T1 with only one or two survivors left because everyone died progressively due to one shots?
almost every run.
Nobody speaks about T1s, they are harder, but yes doable. The major problem starts at T2s for most people and those, who can do it still have to eat medikits like candy.
Try to lure Kalos Tamm on the spikes and bounce arond the many spikes, each step a new wound.
I have my best for the last: Builds are useless now. I have seen utterly broken builds doing insanely high damage, cause they have got the Lostmauth Set or in PVP the wheel, etc. While i have seen the best stat allocations, but without proper money under them, not able to perform well enough.
As long as a rank 12 whale can be 1 shot by trash Mob, builds are pretty useless. My whale friends die the same as me, with my cheap rank 8 builds.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
and you cry about difficulty without having the one stat that helps a lot... why do life steal works for me(and a bunch of other players who know how to build their characters) and it doesnt for you ?
Yet again a self made advocate, who hasn't even seen my build and talks rubbish!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Chemboy moved to a game considered harder and it was one of the reasons he left.
Kaelec left around mod5, mostly tested on preview but didn't play.
Many others that actually knew how to play left in large portion because of the sheer boredom and lack of challenge the game provided.
So not only your argument is wrong, the reason so many skilled players left is against your argument.
I can list many other names of good players who no longer play and left because you could solo anything (except vt/mc - val gropes) half asleep.
This constant droning that only wallet warriors can play is tiresome, of course incorrect, and makes any other, even valid, argument as a rant.
p.s. you can buy kits on AH. Or gold being like any other currency, you can trade stuff for it.
I don't know mate, but currently i can only count 4-5 people, who defend this Mod with their blood. My question, have you ever played a DnD game, no i go further, have you ever been a DM?
I am, since nearly 22 years and let me teach you a bit of DnD. Go to a club, where you live, try to present Mod 6 as it was your own and see people's reaction. You would soon find yourself without a job.
P.S.: Please try to focus on thread, i see through these defenders, they come here, try to make a thread a personal thing, so a Mod can come and close it. Old and cheap trick.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
If you play, like you played your class the last 2 mods, than the difficulty is insane.
Change your play style and the game will be much more easier. It´s possible if players are able to learn.
change your playstyle to what? something you dont like? you cant be serious. Its game, so its played for FUN
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
You really dont get it do you. Its not a problem with adaptation per se because nobody can adapt to a 1-hit kill from a trash mob.
Lemme ask you, do you play PVP at all? Can you adapt to my Paladin hitting you with 300k Crit DJ or are you complaining like everyone else that Paladins are too op because of that 1-hit kill ability? .... Its essentially the same thing with melee, no-dodge classes in epic instances who get destroyed by trash mobs.
Let me spell it out for you. Certain classes in the game were designed by Cryptic themselves to take hits but Mod 6 introduced critters who's hits simply can not be taken, like at all. Maybe this changes little for a ranged class accustomed to dodging anyway..but it changes everything for a melee class or a class without dodge immunity.
Are you honestly not able to understand such simple concept? Tanks need to be able to tank at least a few hits, DR should be meaningful. Damage avoiding is not what a slow moving, defence and HP stacking tank should be forced to do. If I go into a dungeon with 50-60% DR and 100K+ HP I fully expect to be able to take a hit..but thats not the case is it.
Can I get some common sense in here please?
Yes, i saw your motto mate and i like your style, one of the few people, who don't walk with blindfoldes around and you can't be easily fooled, cudos!
Some really don't get it, that melee classes are in much more pain now. For example my GF can't heal himself, his shield is full of bugs. Adopt to what?
My GWF's determination doesn't proc sometimes, when an AP DC is near. A DC, which should heal me, is sometimes my doom, so i can't use my immunity on the other hand i am grateful for their help. Other then this, what shall i do with ranged 1 shooting enemies, like Kalos Tamm's range attack? Where shall one adopt here?
Or what to do with IWD undeads range attacks? Adopt to this Mod 6 lovers.
But despite the different believes i can only say, those who love this death race are somehow a bit masochistic. DnD isn't a gothic sytle game or at least it wasn't meant to be one, if one likes 1 shooting enemies, they have missed the door, go play against Cthulhu.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
0
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
I don't know mate, but currently i can only count 4-5 people, who defend this Mod with their blood. My question, have you ever played a DnD game, no i go further, have you ever been a DM?
I am, since nearly 22 years and let me teach you a bit of DnD. Go to a club, where you live, try to present Mod 6 as it was your own and see people's reaction. You would soon find yourself without a job.
P.S.: Please try to focus on thread, i see through these defenders, they come here, try to make a thread a personal thing, so a Mod can come and close it. Old and cheap trick.
Played, yes.
Was DM, yes.
Though I prefer shadowrun.
Is your person familiarity of myself makes what I said more or less valid?
I quoted your argument, and explained why it is not correct. If you do not want counter arguments do not bring topics up. Especially if their simply untrue.
You quoted a person saying only wallet warriors can play and mentioned you agree completely, so I've answered to that to.
The only one went to person lines is you with your off topic DM D&D stuff. So if you attempt to do something, do not reflect it on others.
If you can't take disagreement do not claim people use some tricks, people can just disagree.
And how any of the last posts by you or anyone are about kits....
To the topic. If you have a good healer in a party you will get your health instantly up. For most classes a healer can do what LS done before, get from almost 0 health to full instantly, what LS wont help you is to mitigate while OP/DC can.
A lot of the mobs wont 1 shot you, a second hit yes, the first wont proc SF, those that can should be controlled or killed, it's a mater of prioritizing and cooperation. (And for reference, I main a melee dps class, and my highest alt is a CW that hit 70 few days ago and has 1700k and finished elol the same day with no issues)
The mod has many issues, people can't finish t1 is not one of them.
Traps add injury is also not one of them.
Also notice that most of the people that post repeatedly that they die and can't play are the same people. Always the same people again and again.
Yes, i saw your motto mate and i like your style, one of the few people, who don't walk with blindfoldes around and you can't be easily fooled, cudos!
Some really don't get it, that melee classes are in much more pain now. For example my GF can't heal himself, his shield is full of bugs. Adopt to what?
My GWF's determination doesn't proc sometimes, when an AP DC is near. A DC, which should heal me, is sometimes my doom, so i can't use my immunity on the other hand i am grateful for their help. Other then this, what shall i do with ranged 1 shooting enemies, like Kalos Tamm's range attack? Where shall one adopt here?
Or what to do with IWD undeads range attacks? Adopt to this Mod 6 lovers.
But despite the different believes i can only say, those who love this death race are somehow a bit masochistic. DnD isn't a gothic sytle game or at least it wasn't meant to be one, if one likes 1 shooting enemies, they have missed the door, go play against Cthulhu.
Each of your posts has derogatory undertone to people who disagree with you, if someone disagrees he/she must be blind, wallet warrior, exploited CN, "Mod 6 lovers", got fooled and so on.
Shows how your arguments are well constructed. And this from someone that claims he wrote books regarding laws.
I have no problem with the game being more difficult, me or my guildies solo'ing 5 man dungeons before was ridiculous, but to make things one shot you as soon as they turn around to you is bad.
You should remember, not all of the people could have done what you did, in the same period of time, with the same level or skill as you have.
Some are not so.... lets say good,with changes.
Some people struggled with dread vault or did only pirate king..i have seen it happen.
Nobody speaks about T1s, they are harder, but yes doable. The major problem starts at T2s for most people and those, who can do it still have to eat medikits like candy.
Try to lure Kalos Tamm on the spikes and bounce arond the many spikes, each step a new wound.
My whale friends die the same as me, with my cheap rank 8 builds.
Actually. I agree with you here. T1s have their own strategy just like t2 do...the only difference is, when showing someone new how to do it, where to stand, what to take, what to use, who to go for first, there isn't any room for an error. At least for me it is so.
In lets say last 3 days i took around 15 guildies to show them elol, new players, first time t1.
And let me tell you, one mistake and i was gone like the wind..or half a second late heal and my party is wiped. In the end they got used to it, sadly. Then again, that can also mean i am a bad player. Who knows XD
But i am out of kits most of the time. lolz
Also don't even get me started on ToS... oh boy, oh boy.. 100 kits is not enough XD But, it is still fun.
Some really don't get it, that melee classes are in much more pain now. For example my GF can't heal himself, his shield is full of bugs. Adopt to what?
Not just you , mate... Adapting is the hardest thing in this mod, to do.
As a cleric ( not full healing spec.) i am half the time in horror cos i can not stop my party from getting one shot.
Pally and tank are safe, but others? They get kicked and woopsy daisy, i have to go raise them.
But i do find spamming my pally is 100 % win most of the time, cos of his bubble.
I can spam and dash around as much as possible, it does not change the fact i sometimes wonder why am i even there? ..some heals and extra ap with some debuffs and buffs..lolz...so sad..
To the topic. If you have a good healer in a party you will get your health instantly up. For most classes a healer can do what LS done before, get from almost 0 health to full instantly, what LS wont help you is to mitigate while OP/DC can.
A lot of the mobs wont 1 hot you, a second hit yes, the first wont proc SF, those that can should be controlled or killed, it's a mater of prioritizing and cooperation.
The mod has many issues, people can't finish t1 is not one of them.
Traps add injury is also not one of them.
Also notice that most of the people that post repeatedly that they die and can't play are the same people. Always the same people again and again.
Each of your posts has derogatory undertone to people who disagree with you, if someone disagrees he/she must be blind, wallet warrior, exploited CN, "Mod 6 lovers", got fooled and so on.
Shows how your arguments are well constructed. And this from someone that claims he wrote books regarding laws.
On the topic : What spec is that healer? Please tell me what gear he/ she has , so i can get it, if that means i can stop people from getting one hit by a little brown spider or a zombie i will gladly get it. Or respec. Or what ever that cleric has. Unless it is all orange and that nice icy blue.... Then i am sorry i do not have that kind of money to spend.
Regarding people not finishing T1 , again i am sorry but it seems we are not playing the same game.
I got into plently of pug groups with poor guys trying to do the dragon, in elol and the poor souls have been there, for hours and hours trying to finish one dungeon. You guys keep forgetting one really important thing.
Do not compare yourself, exp. players as you are, and the little ones that just started to play games.
First rule of a normal conversation should be : do not insult others if you want them to take you seriously.
Stating your personal opionion is fine or trying to be objective, even better. But you presume too much. You explained your thoughts in a fine manner. Your opinion is 1 % of this thread. Just like mine is. There is no " I am saying it so it must be true " I fpeople do not agree with you, then they do not. There is not much you can do about it.
Anddddd KITS!
Thank you for your time. :P
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
On the topic : What spec is that healer? Please tell me what gear he/ she has , so i can get it, if that means i can stop people from getting one hit by a little brown spider or a zombie i will gladly get it. Or respec. Or what ever that cleric has. Unless it is all orange and that nice icy blue.... Then i am sorry i do not have that kind of money to spend.
One of my favorite healers (and the one I play most) is a fresh Lizard OP, I don't remember him having legendery gear or high ranked enchants. I will check though.
Also, a lot of DC/OP (even the non geared) can heal very very fast, if I got hit or SF proced I will get to full health in extremely short time, my point was that it's not much of a difference from old LS with no healer, you get hit and you get to full shortly.
Though someone that get hits repeatedly can overwhelm a healer easily, for example if squashy me get hit by two spitters at the same time.
Don't get me wrong, some runs you can do ToS smooth and fast with 0 deaths (with people crying for help and SF procs at worst) and some times after last boss wipes you just say 'will get it another time'.
brawn spider-lings or zombies will probably eat me alive and even wont spit the left overs, but they are easy to control or kill, they are not the 1 hit issue as i see it. If a DPS class got killed by those it's a control / aggro management issue.
IMO the nastier are the yellow spitting spider-lings, and those I can take a hit if I'm near the OP. Actually I do not know if it is the DR aura or a combination of something (I'm not playing OP and haven't played DC since the changes) but I can usually just take the hits of the yellow spitter for some time (brings me to about 30%-50% heath, I get healed and repeat). Also archers can be an issue and a party must take extra care with those or die.
I do not say the current system is flawless, far from it, very very far from it, there are even bigger issues like T2 became a daily with the cache/key and there is actually nothing to play, but bringing back the mindless solo-able grindy dungeons back will also not solve a thing.
Regarding people not finishing T1 , again i am sorry but it seems we are not playing the same game.
I got into plently of pug groups with poor guys trying to do the dragon, in elol and the poor souls have been there, for hours and hours trying to finish one dungeon. You guys keep forgetting one really important thing.
Do not compare yourself, exp. players as you are, and the little ones that just started to play games.
This is a valid point, I am playing for a long time and so are the people I usually play with, more so I don't PUG at LFG/Queue, the farthest I go is for unfamiliar people is /legit.
But then some compromise must be made, there are several issues:
With a normal distribution half the people will always be bellow average, (median = average in that case and that a good case).
The OP mentioned two people who left, I have tenths of people in my friends list who left in great part because the game had no challenge, and this is a circular problem, skilled players leave, average party becomes less skilled and has less chance to complete a dungeon so the game made easier and even more skilled people leave and so on, so we had 3 mods (3,4,5) in which a lot of experienced people left and now the difficulty jumped and we arrived to a problem.
So how we make the game playable for everyone and not alienating those same players that test things and make those nice guides ?
( A hint, calling everyone exploiter, whale, and so on.. wont cut it)
First rule of a normal conversation should be : do not insult others if you want them to take you seriously.
My point exactly.
If instead bashing around, the OP would have suggested something or asked for suggestions, I think a good solution is to make altars / camp fires heal injuries fast will solve all of it, around 15 sec is a good time.
It's shared with the party, so you can easily use one after a major encounter (we use it today to remove res-sikness if needed) and you need 1/5 of those. A person can limp to a nearby campfire at worst case and an fail of boss fight wont take 3-4 kits because of the SF procs. Also this will save the kits to be used mid fight.
Stating your personal opionion is fine or trying to be objective, even better. But you presume too much. You explained your thoughts in a fine manner. Your opinion is 1 % of this thread. Just like mine is. There is no " I am saying it so it must be true " I fpeople do not agree with you, then they do not. There is not much you can do about it.
My post to the OP was also subject to reading a lot of his post, many of those ended in the abyss. So perhaps my opinion is biased but I don't believe I was wrong. Unless you refer to something else in the presume part.
One of my favorite healers (and the one I play most) is a fresh Lizard OP, I don't remember him having legendery gear or high ranked enchants. I will check though.
Also, a lot of DC/OP (even the non geared) can heal very very fast, if I got hit or SF proced I will get to full health in extremely short time, my point was that it's not much of a difference from old LS with no healer, you get hit and you get to full shortly.
Though someone that get hits repeatedly can overwhelm a healer easily, for example if squashy me get hit by two spitters at the same time.
Don't get me wrong, some runs you can do ToS smooth and fast with 0 deaths (with people crying for help and SF procs at worst) and some times after last boss wipes you just say 'will get it another time'.
Not a lot of OPs go for healing spec though. Some go more tank, some play more agressive and some just go bubble most of the time. With an OP it is much much easier, that is true. But not all OPs are sure in themself yet. It is a "new" class.
People are still learning. If it is a guildie OP i can adapt after 4 runs together, but pug groups are a bother..no comunication, no syncro , and eventually no progress unless you explain what you need more then 10 times. Nicely...very nicely.. XD
brawn spider-lings or zombies will probably eat me alive and even wont spit the left overs, but they are easy to control or kill, IMO the nastier are the yellow spitting spider-lings, and those I can take a hit if I'm near the OP. Actually I do not know if it is the DR aura or a combination of something (I'm not playing OP and haven't played DC since the changes) but I can usually just take the hits of the yellow spitter for some time (brings me to about 30%-50% heath, I get healed and repeat). Also archers can be an issue and a party must take extra care with those or die.
My main is a cleric. With around 74k hp. Not a lot, but more then i had before. XD
Archers kill me in the spot. The yellow spitters do as well... I am most of the time on top of the pally in order for him to get as much ap possible in the short period of time so he can have bubble all the freaking time. =(
Not my vision of the cleric but since we are still in the average group and doing t2, it s the best we came up with.
The groups usually send a trickster to stun the archers or our archer trys to at least do some dmg while palliy goes in.
Wrong approach?
This is a valid point, I am playing for a long time and so are the people I usually play with, more so I don't PUG at LFG/Queue, the farthest I go is for unfamiliar people is /legit.
But then some compromise must be made, there are several issues:
With a normal distribution half the people will always be bellow average, (median = average in that case and that a good case).
The OP mentioned two people who left, I have tenths of people in my friends list who left in great part because the game had no challenge, and this is a circular problem, skilled players leave, average party becomes less skilled and has less chance to complete a dungeon so the game made easier and even more skilled people leave and so on, so we had 3 mods (3,4,5) in which a lot of experienced people left and now the difficulty jumped and we arrived to a problem.
So how we make the game playable for everyone and not alienating those same players that test things and make those nice guides ?
( A hint, calling everyone exploiter, whale, and so on.. wont cut it)
While i do agree with you, insults are not what is needed here i can tell you i know a lot of people quiting purely cos the game started to be too hard for them.They did spend time and money in this game, some more then they should have at some point of time.
They got sad or angry cos they got used to one style of playing and suddenly they got pushed into something totally different and everything they had was lets be realistic : useless.
Except artifacts.
Again i know it hurts when i say this, but really , you can not compare people with the highest possible stuff and the little ones who either can not spend money or do not have enough time to invest into this game.
We all have to eat and sleep. ( and go to work XD heh )
If you want players to play the game, to challenge them, to make them have fun and spend money, you have to admit, that was a horrible way to do it.
" Nerfing life steal " and " adding new zones " turned into : " omg the horror i cant do my well od the dragon and i have it up to 90% with all the draconic stuff and weapons yet i am weak as a new born child...." .
I hope you understand my point as i am trying to understand yours.
For me it is easy to say : i have this or that. I do not care if it is green, blue or orange as long as i can do dungeons.
But for some, gear is everything cos it makes it easier to win. They look up to people with higher gear and view them as divine entities. Just look at tia.
And i have to admit, i do like to win. Like everyone else do.
If instead bashing around, the OP would have suggested something or asked for suggestions, I think a good solution is to make altars / camp fires heal injuries fast will solve all of it, around 15 sec is a good time.
It's shared with the party, so you can easily use one after a major encounter (we use it today to remove res-sikness if needed) and you need 1/5 of those. A person can limp to a nearby campfire at worst case and an fail of boss fight wont take 3-4 kits because of the SF procs. Also this will save the kits to be used mid fight.
My post to the OP was also subject to reading a lot of his post, many of those ended in the abyss. So perhaps my opinion is biased but I don't believe I was wrong. Unless you refer to something else in the presume part.
I was not refering to something else.
But i think...if all of you got your heads together, something good could come out of this.
Every person here, had good ideas and posted it on this forum, in the past. I know cos i do keep an eye out, for good posts at least.
We are all biased cos this game means something to us.. that is all... i guess..
On the topic : i do like the idea about fires.
But, if you had to put so many fires everywhere , so people do not have to run back and forth to get to it, it would be too much for 1 single dungeon. << Don't you think?
How about just making it easier to get gold? << that could do the trick?
Like... remember the gold plates and bronze stuff?
Why not get the drop rate higher for this kind of stuff and make them a bit higher price in the normal vendor shop?
tune down the end game zones
how many more have to quit before you morons clue in.
its real simple adjust the values of NPCs if you do it to low then adjust it up but stop the hemoraging of players quiting over this lame BS that is MOD 6.
...girl's name was, umm... Theesys or somesuch, something greek... :^D
And carreer start and gaming are in many fields not really well compatible...
Nice....damage control attempt terminated
The game is never ever too easy...ever. even if so...use the built in game freedom to gear down....and transmute if u have to for vanity sakes. Rather than boasting about that this and that is too easy while the rest of the players find it just fine, or even too hard, maybe the devs could animate a glimmering little star above your head that says...hey youall..rather than cheesily boasting that the content is too easy and my choosing not to gear down to compensate, I am using my little star...like it?
This is the problem. It's honestly not so much how hard things are now, but the big jump in difficulty. People are struggling to adapt.
It's a big change to go from a dungeon that you have 2-3 times the required GS for, to a dungeon that you're actually trying to complete with challenge appropriate gear.
Those of us who've been around since launch remember how hard the original dungeons were when you had a 9-10k GS. Even at the "top", which was about 12k at the time, things weren't easy. Personally, I feel like the new dungeons are actually better balanced for the gear you have access to now that at any other point in this game's history.
The fights are also much better tuned, and the mechanics are actually fun...but with fun mechanics requires thought, strategy and execution.
Exactly!
The only "one-shot" deaths I have experienced are from being in an enemy's "red zone" attack at the wrong time. And I deserve to die for that mistake.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I Have been here through beta to now and have seen the difficulty drop soon after it started to ****** levels and was a walk in the park before m6 now after I have noticed more use of injury kits and potions don't seem to cut it too good but I have had to adjust my tactics...
This. Beta players remember when dungeons were hard. One reason I left this game before was that it really was too easy. Romping through a dungeon with a coffee in my hand wasn't very challenging. I can't do that now, and dungeons now require a lot of coordination. With that said, some of them went a little overboard in difficulty. There are better ways of increasing difficulty without necessarily increasing HP to massive levels and creating one-shot mobs. Speed of attacks, party wiping mechanics by bosses (i.e. Manaya's Core in Tera), etc... are some of the ways that could be done.
This is what I've seen/felt too. As a SW dmg build, I can still slowly solo the daily/boon stuff but I do need greater health stones to do so. Far too often plain Jane mobs crack me for 3/4s of my 85k hit points, from there it's an uphill battle unless I pop a greater stone. This isn't a huge deal yet as I had 400 or so laying arOund from prior to mod 6. I am a c asual player from prior to launch. I was willing to spend money when it meant something, with all the insane refinement cost now in game, short of spending 1000s per item, there's no longer a point imho.
With my playtime limitations and the insane money sink the game has become to my playstyle( casual/solo then group up for tougher content/dungeons) when my health stones run out so likely will the last of my interest in the game. Bad enough any alts I intended actually playing have been relegated to money farms so as to refine my main to a point capable of running all the content.
Already looking for the next adventure, hoping they address the difficulty before I find it.
Also notice that most of the people that post repeatedly that they die and can't play are the same people. Always the same people again and again.
Each of your posts has derogatory undertone to people who disagree with you, if someone disagrees he/she must be blind, wallet warrior, exploited CN, "Mod 6 lovers", got fooled and so on.
Shows how your arguments are well constructed. And this from someone that claims he wrote books regarding laws.
Only because i am a law expert, do i know so much about people and exploiting. The long years of criminology study gave me the power to see through the slightest hocus pocus.
My tone is only hurtful to exploiters. Actually all now me in this forum as the little people's advocate and let me tell you i am constantly attacked, because i defend the legit players.
Now put 1+1 together, who has the motivation to attack a person, who defends legit play and legit players? You don't need to be a genius to know, that only exploiters hate legit players, cause they fear the legit way and the publicity.
Also have you noticed, that those people, who defend Mod 6 are only those and exactly the same people and well you guys are a minority, cause as polls show, over 90% of the people isn't satisfied by Mod 6.
That's a clear verdict for me.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
To also go along hand in hand with the kits is the armor too.
Before mod6; you could go from one set of armor to another and your chance of living in the dungeon run went up. Now because of the stats, how hard the mobs hit, and their armor, the armor makes no difference as you go up. The difference between Elven, and Elemental Elven is so small it doesn't matter let alone worth upgrading too. I've seen many players stick with Elemental Alliance and be happy. This in turn does effect kits because the less your armor works for you, the more you'll die, the more kits you'll use. If they don't adjust how hard the dungeons are at least fix the stats on the EXISTING armor. Not give us new ones that are pointless. Yes the new addition of the Dread Ring/Shar armor is nice. Great for people that are just getting to 70. But what about those that have full T2 armor and still getting 1 shotted. Even going back to Dread Ring with the new armor people would still get one shot by the mobs there.
If anything it seems like the new 120 ilvl armor is just filler. Not an actual help.
My tone is only hurtful to exploiters. Actually allow me in this forum as the little people's advocate and let me tell you i am constantly attacked, because i defend the legit players.
Now put 1+1 together, who has the motivation to attack a person, who defends legit play and legit players? You don't need to be a genius to know, that only exploiters hate legit players, cause they fear the legit way and the publicity.
Also have you noticed, that those people, who defend Mod 6 are only those and exactly the same people and well you guys are a minority, cause as polls show, over 90% of the people isn't satisfied by Mod 6.
That's a clear verdict for me.
Are you saying that anyone who defends Mod 6 or disagrees with your opinion is an exploiter?
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Looked like he only said "his tone is only hurtful to exploiters". Bit of a jump in logic.
Exactly!
P.S: Maybe i should have been a bit more precise in choosing my words, what i meant was, that only the same few people defend Mod 6 over the forum in each critical thread about Mod 6. Hope it's clear now.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
0
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Only because i am a law expert, do i know so much about people and exploiting. The long years of criminology study gave me the power to see through the slightest hocus pocus.
My tone is only hurtful to exploiters. Actually all now me in this forum as the little people's advocate and let me tell you i am constantly attacked, because i defend the legit players.
Now put 1+1 together, who has the motivation to attack a person, who defends legit play and legit players? You don't need to be a genius to know, that only exploiters hate legit players, cause they fear the legit way and the publicity.
Also have you noticed, that those people, who defend Mod 6 are only those and exactly the same people and well you guys are a minority, cause as polls show, over 90% of the people isn't satisfied by Mod 6.
That's a clear verdict for me.
I do not see you defend anything, you only attack, people who play better than you must be exploiters. Must have cheated or must been wallet warriors. You made false arguments, but instead of admitting the mistake you derail into D&D and not related things.
You have not suggested anything constructive, posting how bad things are for you and how anyone that can actually finish a dungeon must have exploited is not defending the little people, it's provoking a flame war.
"Now put 1+1 together, who has the motivation to attack a person, who defends legit play and legit players? You don't need to be a genius to know, that only exploiters hate legit players, cause they fear the legit way and the publicity."
Though I do not defend mod 6 per se but against returning to the stupid easy mode that was before. Is this above quote makes me exploiter and illegitimate player ? Or I hate legit players ? Should I get nasty and angry now when I look in a virtual mirror ? (I'll probably should go and exploit something to calm my nerves)
I'll do my best to explain people what they can do better and how to actually finish the dungeons, take people for first runs and what not if people actually care to try to learn, improve, adapt.
I respect people who argue civilly even if they disagree with me, maybe we both will learn something new or come to a compromise, and can improve something.
But people who post endlessly with a sub-tone that everyone that can play at this mod, must be an exploiter is not acceptable. Please do not speak for others, you are a casual player, ok, you can't put the time / money / or whatever, this is completely valid and I wouldn't even bothered to post anything except to suggest t1.5 dungeons and more to yes help casual players. But claiming you have trouble because you are legit player, Is a clear claim that if I don't have a problem I'm not legit.
What polls ? How is a forum poll is a valid sample of never winter population ?
Or is it one of those 80% of statistics is made up ?
P.S: Maybe i should have been a bit more precise in choosing my words, what i meant was, that only the same few people defend Mod 6 over the forum in each critical thread about Mod 6. Hope it's clear now.
And it's always the same people who start the threads about how they die.
What it should tell us ?
I prefer that all the players who still here and got bored by level 5 difficulty
not leave because you want the game to return to mod 5 solo-able level.
You can't play, great, suggest something useful.
Make a valid point, post your build, ACT log,
So you can improve in your build/play style / team-play.
And a valid suggestion on how the game should change, but at least first look at yourself.
And when you suggest those things, please consider that you are not the only player here, and some invested a lot of time to learn how to play with their team, invested a lot of time in gear, and can actually play this level of dungeons, so suggest something that will accommodate those players too.
You have an issue with LS, being one shot and gold, all can be valid to casual players, then please tell me what you suggest should be done to keep me challenged when I can clear ToS (with a group of course), and wont be able to solo it. And what should be done with Kits and gold that will not flood the game with gold even more and make it even more useless currency that it is now.
lower mobs damage to half and give me back LS and I can solo the dungeons again. Or at least will be much closer to it.
And it's always the same people who start the threads about how they die.
What it should tell us ?
I prefer that all the players who still here and got bored by level 5 difficulty
not leave because you want the game to return to mod 5 solo-able level.
That is a very narrow minded interpretation of the issue.
There is no doubt that the game has been hemorrhaging players. Those with BiS gear are not the only ones playing the game. A game should not be designed with only one player base in mind. Why can't there be dungeons or versions of the same dungeons that are targeted at casual players and others for BiS players who find the regular ones too easy? The loot can be handled differently between the 2 so that those tackling the extra challenge are appropriately rewarded, and so there is reason for BiS players to do them, other than the challenge.
If you ignore either side you end up losing players.
Btw, I do have close to BiS gear and don't have an issue doing the dungeons, but having seen SO many people leave the game, THAT I do have a problem with.
I do not see you defend anything, you only attack, people who play better than you must be exploiters. Must have cheated or must been wallet warriors. You made false arguments, but instead of admitting the mistake you derail into D&D and not related things.
You have not suggested anything constructive, posting how bad things are for you and how anyone that can actually finish a dungeon must have exploited is not defending the little people, it's provoking a flame war.
"Now put 1+1 together, who has the motivation to attack a person, who defends legit play and legit players? You don't need to be a genius to know, that only exploiters hate legit players, cause they fear the legit way and the publicity."
Though I do not defend mod 6 per se but against returning to the stupid easy mode that was before. Is this above quote makes me exploiter and illegitimate player ? Or I hate legit players ? Should I get nasty and angry now when I look in a virtual mirror ? (I'll probably should go and exploit something to calm my nerves)
I'll do my best to explain people what they can do better and how to actually finish the dungeons, take people for first runs and what not if people actually care to try to learn, improve, adapt.
I respect people who argue civilly even if they disagree with me, maybe we both will learn something new or come to a compromise, and can improve something.
But people who post endlessly with a sub-tone that everyone that can play at this mod, must be an exploiter is not acceptable. Please do not speak for others, you are a casual player, ok, you can't put the time / money / or whatever, this is completely valid and I wouldn't even bothered to post anything except to suggest t1.5 dungeons and more to yes help casual players. But claiming you have trouble because you are legit player, Is a clear claim that if I don't have a problem I'm not legit.
What polls ? How is a forum poll is a valid sample of never winter population ?
Or is it one of those 80% of statistics is made up ?
Saying "my tone is only hurtful to.." but yet claim that you must be x,y,z is contradicting.
1. You haven't seen me play.
2. It is only you and your buddies here, who are trolling a thread, just to get it shut down by Mods, pretty clear to see, you are chasing this goal.
3. It is actually more than 80% and more than 47 pages, but Mods constantly shorten the thread to let it shine in a better light.
4. How much do you get paid for this or are you even an employee or even worse, one of those kids, who are called endorsed players. So much hatred and devotion is a sign of heavy commitment.
5. You say i am not tolerated here.What are you gonna do about it? You will get me banned or what? Wouldn't be surprised, there is a tide of hatred from a few VIPs here, who demand my banning for nothing, just for speaking out the truth.
6. Test Mod 6 as i have done, take it to a club and tell your players, you will lose your gear, you will lose your dungeons, you will not get new ones and try to tell the same story for many many months to come and yeah on top of it give them 1 shot trash Mobs. You will see, how long people will tolerate a lackluster campaign. Just go ahead and make the test. I did actually...
7. You say i derail only into DnD, lol man this should be a DnD game, wake up please.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
0
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
2. It is only you and your buddies here, who are trolling a thread, just to get it shut down by Mods, pretty clear to see, you are chasing this goal.
3. It is actually more than 80% and more than 47 pages, but Mods constantly shorten the thread to let it shine in a better light.
4. How much do you get paid for this or are you even an employee or even worse, one of those kids, who are called endorsed players. So much hatred and devotion is a sign of heavy commitment.
5. You say i am not tolerated here.What are you gonna do about it? You will get me banned or what? Wouldn't be surprised, there is a tide of hatred from a few VIPs here, who demand my banning for nothing, just for speaking out the truth.
6. Test Mod 6 as i have done, take it to a club and tell your players, you will lose your gear, you will lose your dungeons, you will not get new ones and try to tell the same story for many many months to come. You will see, how long people will tolerate a lackluster campaign. Just go ahead and make the test. I did actually...
Again you derail to to personal and lies.
1. Why I need to see you play ?
2. With whom you group me in with ? You ignore every argument I made and just make false accusations.. I base on your posts, you on what ?
Your posts sent to the abyss without my help. Perhaps you should reflect on that instead of blaming others.
3. Again, how a forum thread is a valid sample of the game population ? It can be 147 pages long, it still not a validity proof, nor any argument that easy mode 5 was better to the games health.
4. You are out of anything useful to say, or how to contradict anything I say so you claim I'm being payed ? Are you for real ?
And what I hate or devote myself to exactly ? I've asked you to suggest something that can work for everyone instead of the tenths of posts where you blame everyone that disagree with you as something derogatory. Please do so.
5. not tolerated ? where I said such thing ? what are talking about ? How I can get you banned ?
What are you smoking ?
6. Again what the hell you talk about ? Neverwinter using D&D IP and bound to agreement, what your D&D club has anything to do with the MMO ? That they share the same monsters and races, nothing less nothing more... How playing D&D makes one expert on F2P MMO model, player retention, market statistics, game play design, software design, and so on...
Next thing you will suggest me to get a second opinion for a medical condition from a white coat tailor.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
That is a very narrow minded interpretation of the issue.
There is no doubt that the game has been hemorrhaging players. Those with BiS gear are not the only ones playing the game. A game should not be designed with only one player base in mind. Why can't there be dungeons or versions of the same dungeons that are targeted at casual players and others for BiS players who find the regular ones too easy? The loot can be handled differently between the 2 so that those tackling the extra challenge are appropriately rewarded, and so there is reason for BiS players to do them, other than the challenge.
If you ignore either side you end up losing players.
Btw, I do have close to BiS gear and don't have an issue doing the dungeons, but having seen SO many people leave the game, THAT I do have a problem with.
Narrow minded ? Maybe, though I'm not against change, I'm against endless yelling 'Cryptic the dungeons to hard' without any suggestions as to what can work.
In this case some undertones went beyond reason. That's the only reason I choose to even post. If a person can't suggest a problem/solution without calling anyone that disagrees to have some hidden agenda, being an employ or something else.....
Dungeon difficulty variety is a good solution with different loot, and I've suggested it various times (not in this thread).
And about players leaving, yes it's a shame, but what about all those that left ? and what the game level should be?
The OP mentioned two people, and I can list more that left so if we bring back mindless mod5 style grind where we will be ? With end game not balanced PvP and people who put effort in testing / math and so on leaving because what you test when you can solo with any build .
I'm not BiS, well geared but not BIS, artigear purple (except MH) and so on, and yet I can clear ToS most times without great issues. Thanks in large to groups that willing to talk and work together and change thing s or adapt, including to weird bugs , graphic fps drops due to some skills or even having one OP respecing out of Prim because you couldn't play with two OP in a party with Prism. And even if not succeeding than no one will rage quit.
Should I leave the game because I actually have friends / people that communicate to play with ?
What is the purpose of the MMO otherwise ?
As i said before, if a casual player have issues with gold, kits, getting one shot, they are all valid problems. But they are not an excuse to start a holly crusade (or something less holly) against people who manage to play the dungeons.
There is a good deal wrong with Mod 6, however there is also a good deal right about it.
It's a balance of sorts honestly, at least how I see it. If that's contrary to the opinion of 80% of the Forum posters, that's fine by me. I'd hazard a guess, that the posters on the Forum are a minority (at best) of the players who play the game on a daily basis. Thus I do not extrapolate that 80% of ALL players 'hate Mod 6'.
Then again I spend a great deal of time playing the game... While also browsing the forums. :cool:
There is a good deal wrong with Mod 6, however there is also a good deal right about it.
It's a balance of sorts honestly, at least how I see it. If that's contrary to the opinion of 80% of the Forum posters, that's fine by me. I'd hazard a guess, that the posters on the Forum are a minority (at best) of the players who play the game on a daily basis. Thus I do not extrapolate that 80% of ALL players 'hate Mod 6'.
Then again I spend a great deal of time playing the game... While also browsing the forums. :cool:
Guess I am the rarest bird in the trees then! lol
Yes and no. There have been some improvements with the game. But at the same time they did a hard reset on it too. And all of it does play into the kits topic we are on. From how hard the mobs hit and how much armor they have to how much health and armor pen we get.
I won't say 80% but it's split down the many different ways. You have your pocket warriors at straight up don't care. They'll pay regardless. You have people that are hard core but don't play often and have been driven away due to the mod. Same like the beta players or some of them not all. And you have the new comers who are going to be dealt the short hand from the start.
Whether you love or hate the mod is one thing. But it's a whole new convo when you bring into how the mod effects the future of the game.
Back to the topic of kits and potions. Yeah stat wise I don't think they knew exactly how the numbers would pan out. Just look at the new health potions and how much they heal for.
There are a few who think the new difficulty is all fine and great. I don't even bother trying to outmeasure e-peen. They're gods, let's just say.
Problem is, the rest of us aren't.
One answer to the OP is to do what I do - avoid all trash mobs. Period. What's the point in fighting them? I think the e-peeners just want a hard zone to themselves so they can brag they're in it. Saw the same mentality in Everquest and every game since then.
I raised one of my 60s to 70. I absolutely feel sick thinking about doing it with my other seven. No way am I going through that again. So... I log out. There it is, for those of us who aren't gods.
Comments
Nobody speaks about T1s, they are harder, but yes doable. The major problem starts at T2s for most people and those, who can do it still have to eat medikits like candy.
Try to lure Kalos Tamm on the spikes and bounce arond the many spikes, each step a new wound.
I have my best for the last: Builds are useless now. I have seen utterly broken builds doing insanely high damage, cause they have got the Lostmauth Set or in PVP the wheel, etc. While i have seen the best stat allocations, but without proper money under them, not able to perform well enough.
As long as a rank 12 whale can be 1 shot by trash Mob, builds are pretty useless. My whale friends die the same as me, with my cheap rank 8 builds.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Yet again a self made advocate, who hasn't even seen my build and talks rubbish!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I don't know mate, but currently i can only count 4-5 people, who defend this Mod with their blood. My question, have you ever played a DnD game, no i go further, have you ever been a DM?
I am, since nearly 22 years and let me teach you a bit of DnD. Go to a club, where you live, try to present Mod 6 as it was your own and see people's reaction. You would soon find yourself without a job.
P.S.: Please try to focus on thread, i see through these defenders, they come here, try to make a thread a personal thing, so a Mod can come and close it. Old and cheap trick.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
change your playstyle to what? something you dont like? you cant be serious. Its game, so its played for FUN
nerfed damage? maybe my classes are too crumbled to didnt see a difference
Yes, i saw your motto mate and i like your style, one of the few people, who don't walk with blindfoldes around and you can't be easily fooled, cudos!
Some really don't get it, that melee classes are in much more pain now. For example my GF can't heal himself, his shield is full of bugs. Adopt to what?
My GWF's determination doesn't proc sometimes, when an AP DC is near. A DC, which should heal me, is sometimes my doom, so i can't use my immunity on the other hand i am grateful for their help. Other then this, what shall i do with ranged 1 shooting enemies, like Kalos Tamm's range attack? Where shall one adopt here?
Or what to do with IWD undeads range attacks? Adopt to this Mod 6 lovers.
But despite the different believes i can only say, those who love this death race are somehow a bit masochistic. DnD isn't a gothic sytle game or at least it wasn't meant to be one, if one likes 1 shooting enemies, they have missed the door, go play against Cthulhu.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Played, yes.
Was DM, yes.
Though I prefer shadowrun.
Is your person familiarity of myself makes what I said more or less valid?
I quoted your argument, and explained why it is not correct. If you do not want counter arguments do not bring topics up. Especially if their simply untrue.
You quoted a person saying only wallet warriors can play and mentioned you agree completely, so I've answered to that to.
The only one went to person lines is you with your off topic DM D&D stuff. So if you attempt to do something, do not reflect it on others.
If you can't take disagreement do not claim people use some tricks, people can just disagree.
And how any of the last posts by you or anyone are about kits....
To the topic. If you have a good healer in a party you will get your health instantly up. For most classes a healer can do what LS done before, get from almost 0 health to full instantly, what LS wont help you is to mitigate while OP/DC can.
A lot of the mobs wont 1 shot you, a second hit yes, the first wont proc SF, those that can should be controlled or killed, it's a mater of prioritizing and cooperation. (And for reference, I main a melee dps class, and my highest alt is a CW that hit 70 few days ago and has 1700k and finished elol the same day with no issues)
The mod has many issues, people can't finish t1 is not one of them.
Traps add injury is also not one of them.
Also notice that most of the people that post repeatedly that they die and can't play are the same people. Always the same people again and again.
Each of your posts has derogatory undertone to people who disagree with you, if someone disagrees he/she must be blind, wallet warrior, exploited CN, "Mod 6 lovers", got fooled and so on.
Shows how your arguments are well constructed. And this from someone that claims he wrote books regarding laws.
You should remember, not all of the people could have done what you did, in the same period of time, with the same level or skill as you have.
Some are not so.... lets say good,with changes.
Some people struggled with dread vault or did only pirate king..i have seen it happen.
I could not resist quoting you. It depends on the person and the interest he / she has. Or the company he / she works for. :P
Actually. I agree with you here. T1s have their own strategy just like t2 do...the only difference is, when showing someone new how to do it, where to stand, what to take, what to use, who to go for first, there isn't any room for an error. At least for me it is so.
In lets say last 3 days i took around 15 guildies to show them elol, new players, first time t1.
And let me tell you, one mistake and i was gone like the wind..or half a second late heal and my party is wiped. In the end they got used to it, sadly. Then again, that can also mean i am a bad player. Who knows XD
But i am out of kits most of the time. lolz
Also don't even get me started on ToS... oh boy, oh boy.. 100 kits is not enough XD But, it is still fun.
Not just you , mate... Adapting is the hardest thing in this mod, to do.
As a cleric ( not full healing spec.) i am half the time in horror cos i can not stop my party from getting one shot.
Pally and tank are safe, but others? They get kicked and woopsy daisy, i have to go raise them.
But i do find spamming my pally is 100 % win most of the time, cos of his bubble.
I can spam and dash around as much as possible, it does not change the fact i sometimes wonder why am i even there? ..some heals and extra ap with some debuffs and buffs..lolz...so sad..
On the topic : What spec is that healer? Please tell me what gear he/ she has , so i can get it, if that means i can stop people from getting one hit by a little brown spider or a zombie i will gladly get it. Or respec. Or what ever that cleric has. Unless it is all orange and that nice icy blue.... Then i am sorry i do not have that kind of money to spend.
Regarding people not finishing T1 , again i am sorry but it seems we are not playing the same game.
I got into plently of pug groups with poor guys trying to do the dragon, in elol and the poor souls have been there, for hours and hours trying to finish one dungeon. You guys keep forgetting one really important thing.
Do not compare yourself, exp. players as you are, and the little ones that just started to play games.
First rule of a normal conversation should be : do not insult others if you want them to take you seriously.
Stating your personal opionion is fine or trying to be objective, even better. But you presume too much. You explained your thoughts in a fine manner. Your opinion is 1 % of this thread. Just like mine is. There is no " I am saying it so it must be true " I fpeople do not agree with you, then they do not. There is not much you can do about it.
Anddddd KITS!
Thank you for your time. :P
One of my favorite healers (and the one I play most) is a fresh Lizard OP, I don't remember him having legendery gear or high ranked enchants. I will check though.
Also, a lot of DC/OP (even the non geared) can heal very very fast, if I got hit or SF proced I will get to full health in extremely short time, my point was that it's not much of a difference from old LS with no healer, you get hit and you get to full shortly.
Though someone that get hits repeatedly can overwhelm a healer easily, for example if squashy me get hit by two spitters at the same time.
Don't get me wrong, some runs you can do ToS smooth and fast with 0 deaths (with people crying for help and SF procs at worst) and some times after last boss wipes you just say 'will get it another time'.
brawn spider-lings or zombies will probably eat me alive and even wont spit the left overs, but they are easy to control or kill, they are not the 1 hit issue as i see it. If a DPS class got killed by those it's a control / aggro management issue.
IMO the nastier are the yellow spitting spider-lings, and those I can take a hit if I'm near the OP. Actually I do not know if it is the DR aura or a combination of something (I'm not playing OP and haven't played DC since the changes) but I can usually just take the hits of the yellow spitter for some time (brings me to about 30%-50% heath, I get healed and repeat). Also archers can be an issue and a party must take extra care with those or die.
I do not say the current system is flawless, far from it, very very far from it, there are even bigger issues like T2 became a daily with the cache/key and there is actually nothing to play, but bringing back the mindless solo-able grindy dungeons back will also not solve a thing.
This is a valid point, I am playing for a long time and so are the people I usually play with, more so I don't PUG at LFG/Queue, the farthest I go is for unfamiliar people is /legit.
But then some compromise must be made, there are several issues:
With a normal distribution half the people will always be bellow average, (median = average in that case and that a good case).
The OP mentioned two people who left, I have tenths of people in my friends list who left in great part because the game had no challenge, and this is a circular problem, skilled players leave, average party becomes less skilled and has less chance to complete a dungeon so the game made easier and even more skilled people leave and so on, so we had 3 mods (3,4,5) in which a lot of experienced people left and now the difficulty jumped and we arrived to a problem.
So how we make the game playable for everyone and not alienating those same players that test things and make those nice guides ?
( A hint, calling everyone exploiter, whale, and so on.. wont cut it)
My point exactly.
If instead bashing around, the OP would have suggested something or asked for suggestions, I think a good solution is to make altars / camp fires heal injuries fast will solve all of it, around 15 sec is a good time.
It's shared with the party, so you can easily use one after a major encounter (we use it today to remove res-sikness if needed) and you need 1/5 of those. A person can limp to a nearby campfire at worst case and an fail of boss fight wont take 3-4 kits because of the SF procs. Also this will save the kits to be used mid fight.
My post to the OP was also subject to reading a lot of his post, many of those ended in the abyss. So perhaps my opinion is biased but I don't believe I was wrong. Unless you refer to something else in the presume part.
Not a lot of OPs go for healing spec though. Some go more tank, some play more agressive and some just go bubble most of the time. With an OP it is much much easier, that is true. But not all OPs are sure in themself yet. It is a "new" class.
People are still learning. If it is a guildie OP i can adapt after 4 runs together, but pug groups are a bother..no comunication, no syncro , and eventually no progress unless you explain what you need more then 10 times. Nicely...very nicely.. XD
My main is a cleric. With around 74k hp. Not a lot, but more then i had before. XD
Archers kill me in the spot. The yellow spitters do as well... I am most of the time on top of the pally in order for him to get as much ap possible in the short period of time so he can have bubble all the freaking time. =(
Not my vision of the cleric but since we are still in the average group and doing t2, it s the best we came up with.
The groups usually send a trickster to stun the archers or our archer trys to at least do some dmg while palliy goes in.
Wrong approach?
While i do agree with you, insults are not what is needed here i can tell you i know a lot of people quiting purely cos the game started to be too hard for them.They did spend time and money in this game, some more then they should have at some point of time.
They got sad or angry cos they got used to one style of playing and suddenly they got pushed into something totally different and everything they had was lets be realistic : useless.
Except artifacts.
Again i know it hurts when i say this, but really , you can not compare people with the highest possible stuff and the little ones who either can not spend money or do not have enough time to invest into this game.
We all have to eat and sleep. ( and go to work XD heh )
If you want players to play the game, to challenge them, to make them have fun and spend money, you have to admit, that was a horrible way to do it.
" Nerfing life steal " and " adding new zones " turned into : " omg the horror i cant do my well od the dragon and i have it up to 90% with all the draconic stuff and weapons yet i am weak as a new born child...." .
I hope you understand my point as i am trying to understand yours.
For me it is easy to say : i have this or that. I do not care if it is green, blue or orange as long as i can do dungeons.
But for some, gear is everything cos it makes it easier to win. They look up to people with higher gear and view them as divine entities. Just look at tia.
And i have to admit, i do like to win. Like everyone else do.
I was not refering to something else.
But i think...if all of you got your heads together, something good could come out of this.
Every person here, had good ideas and posted it on this forum, in the past. I know cos i do keep an eye out, for good posts at least.
We are all biased cos this game means something to us.. that is all... i guess..
On the topic : i do like the idea about fires.
But, if you had to put so many fires everywhere , so people do not have to run back and forth to get to it, it would be too much for 1 single dungeon. << Don't you think?
How about just making it easier to get gold? << that could do the trick?
Like... remember the gold plates and bronze stuff?
Why not get the drop rate higher for this kind of stuff and make them a bit higher price in the normal vendor shop?
how many more have to quit before you morons clue in.
its real simple adjust the values of NPCs if you do it to low then adjust it up but stop the hemoraging of players quiting over this lame BS that is MOD 6.
Nice....damage control attempt terminated
The game is never ever too easy...ever. even if so...use the built in game freedom to gear down....and transmute if u have to for vanity sakes. Rather than boasting about that this and that is too easy while the rest of the players find it just fine, or even too hard, maybe the devs could animate a glimmering little star above your head that says...hey youall..rather than cheesily boasting that the content is too easy and my choosing not to gear down to compensate, I am using my little star...like it?
Exactly!
The only "one-shot" deaths I have experienced are from being in an enemy's "red zone" attack at the wrong time. And I deserve to die for that mistake.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
This. Beta players remember when dungeons were hard. One reason I left this game before was that it really was too easy. Romping through a dungeon with a coffee in my hand wasn't very challenging. I can't do that now, and dungeons now require a lot of coordination. With that said, some of them went a little overboard in difficulty. There are better ways of increasing difficulty without necessarily increasing HP to massive levels and creating one-shot mobs. Speed of attacks, party wiping mechanics by bosses (i.e. Manaya's Core in Tera), etc... are some of the ways that could be done.
With my playtime limitations and the insane money sink the game has become to my playstyle( casual/solo then group up for tougher content/dungeons) when my health stones run out so likely will the last of my interest in the game. Bad enough any alts I intended actually playing have been relegated to money farms so as to refine my main to a point capable of running all the content.
Already looking for the next adventure, hoping they address the difficulty before I find it.
Only because i am a law expert, do i know so much about people and exploiting. The long years of criminology study gave me the power to see through the slightest hocus pocus.
My tone is only hurtful to exploiters. Actually all now me in this forum as the little people's advocate and let me tell you i am constantly attacked, because i defend the legit players.
Now put 1+1 together, who has the motivation to attack a person, who defends legit play and legit players? You don't need to be a genius to know, that only exploiters hate legit players, cause they fear the legit way and the publicity.
Also have you noticed, that those people, who defend Mod 6 are only those and exactly the same people and well you guys are a minority, cause as polls show, over 90% of the people isn't satisfied by Mod 6.
That's a clear verdict for me.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Before mod6; you could go from one set of armor to another and your chance of living in the dungeon run went up. Now because of the stats, how hard the mobs hit, and their armor, the armor makes no difference as you go up. The difference between Elven, and Elemental Elven is so small it doesn't matter let alone worth upgrading too. I've seen many players stick with Elemental Alliance and be happy. This in turn does effect kits because the less your armor works for you, the more you'll die, the more kits you'll use. If they don't adjust how hard the dungeons are at least fix the stats on the EXISTING armor. Not give us new ones that are pointless. Yes the new addition of the Dread Ring/Shar armor is nice. Great for people that are just getting to 70. But what about those that have full T2 armor and still getting 1 shotted. Even going back to Dread Ring with the new armor people would still get one shot by the mobs there.
If anything it seems like the new 120 ilvl armor is just filler. Not an actual help.
Are you saying that anyone who defends Mod 6 or disagrees with your opinion is an exploiter?
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Looked like he only said "his tone is only hurtful to exploiters". Bit of a jump in logic.
No, not at all.
Exactly!
P.S: Maybe i should have been a bit more precise in choosing my words, what i meant was, that only the same few people defend Mod 6 over the forum in each critical thread about Mod 6. Hope it's clear now.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I do not see you defend anything, you only attack, people who play better than you must be exploiters. Must have cheated or must been wallet warriors. You made false arguments, but instead of admitting the mistake you derail into D&D and not related things.
You have not suggested anything constructive, posting how bad things are for you and how anyone that can actually finish a dungeon must have exploited is not defending the little people, it's provoking a flame war.
"Now put 1+1 together, who has the motivation to attack a person, who defends legit play and legit players? You don't need to be a genius to know, that only exploiters hate legit players, cause they fear the legit way and the publicity."
Though I do not defend mod 6 per se but against returning to the stupid easy mode that was before. Is this above quote makes me exploiter and illegitimate player ? Or I hate legit players ? Should I get nasty and angry now when I look in a virtual mirror ? (I'll probably should go and exploit something to calm my nerves)
I'll do my best to explain people what they can do better and how to actually finish the dungeons, take people for first runs and what not if people actually care to try to learn, improve, adapt.
I respect people who argue civilly even if they disagree with me, maybe we both will learn something new or come to a compromise, and can improve something.
But people who post endlessly with a sub-tone that everyone that can play at this mod, must be an exploiter is not acceptable. Please do not speak for others, you are a casual player, ok, you can't put the time / money / or whatever, this is completely valid and I wouldn't even bothered to post anything except to suggest t1.5 dungeons and more to yes help casual players. But claiming you have trouble because you are legit player, Is a clear claim that if I don't have a problem I'm not legit.
What polls ? How is a forum poll is a valid sample of never winter population ?
Or is it one of those 80% of statistics is made up ?
Saying "my tone is only hurtful to.." but yet claim that you must be x,y,z is contradicting.
And it's always the same people who start the threads about how they die.
What it should tell us ?
I prefer that all the players who still here and got bored by level 5 difficulty
not leave because you want the game to return to mod 5 solo-able level.
You can't play, great, suggest something useful.
Make a valid point, post your build, ACT log,
So you can improve in your build/play style / team-play.
And a valid suggestion on how the game should change, but at least first look at yourself.
And when you suggest those things, please consider that you are not the only player here, and some invested a lot of time to learn how to play with their team, invested a lot of time in gear, and can actually play this level of dungeons, so suggest something that will accommodate those players too.
You have an issue with LS, being one shot and gold, all can be valid to casual players, then please tell me what you suggest should be done to keep me challenged when I can clear ToS (with a group of course), and wont be able to solo it. And what should be done with Kits and gold that will not flood the game with gold even more and make it even more useless currency that it is now.
lower mobs damage to half and give me back LS and I can solo the dungeons again. Or at least will be much closer to it.
That is a very narrow minded interpretation of the issue.
There is no doubt that the game has been hemorrhaging players. Those with BiS gear are not the only ones playing the game. A game should not be designed with only one player base in mind. Why can't there be dungeons or versions of the same dungeons that are targeted at casual players and others for BiS players who find the regular ones too easy? The loot can be handled differently between the 2 so that those tackling the extra challenge are appropriately rewarded, and so there is reason for BiS players to do them, other than the challenge.
If you ignore either side you end up losing players.
Btw, I do have close to BiS gear and don't have an issue doing the dungeons, but having seen SO many people leave the game, THAT I do have a problem with.
1. You haven't seen me play.
2. It is only you and your buddies here, who are trolling a thread, just to get it shut down by Mods, pretty clear to see, you are chasing this goal.
3. It is actually more than 80% and more than 47 pages, but Mods constantly shorten the thread to let it shine in a better light.
4. How much do you get paid for this or are you even an employee or even worse, one of those kids, who are called endorsed players. So much hatred and devotion is a sign of heavy commitment.
5. You say i am not tolerated here.What are you gonna do about it? You will get me banned or what? Wouldn't be surprised, there is a tide of hatred from a few VIPs here, who demand my banning for nothing, just for speaking out the truth.
6. Test Mod 6 as i have done, take it to a club and tell your players, you will lose your gear, you will lose your dungeons, you will not get new ones and try to tell the same story for many many months to come and yeah on top of it give them 1 shot trash Mobs. You will see, how long people will tolerate a lackluster campaign. Just go ahead and make the test. I did actually...
7. You say i derail only into DnD, lol man this should be a DnD game, wake up please.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Again you derail to to personal and lies.
1. Why I need to see you play ?
2. With whom you group me in with ? You ignore every argument I made and just make false accusations.. I base on your posts, you on what ?
Your posts sent to the abyss without my help. Perhaps you should reflect on that instead of blaming others.
3. Again, how a forum thread is a valid sample of the game population ? It can be 147 pages long, it still not a validity proof, nor any argument that easy mode 5 was better to the games health.
4. You are out of anything useful to say, or how to contradict anything I say so you claim I'm being payed ? Are you for real ?
And what I hate or devote myself to exactly ? I've asked you to suggest something that can work for everyone instead of the tenths of posts where you blame everyone that disagree with you as something derogatory. Please do so.
5. not tolerated ? where I said such thing ? what are talking about ? How I can get you banned ?
What are you smoking ?
6. Again what the hell you talk about ? Neverwinter using D&D IP and bound to agreement, what your D&D club has anything to do with the MMO ? That they share the same monsters and races, nothing less nothing more... How playing D&D makes one expert on F2P MMO model, player retention, market statistics, game play design, software design, and so on...
Next thing you will suggest me to get a second opinion for a medical condition from a white coat tailor.
Narrow minded ? Maybe, though I'm not against change, I'm against endless yelling 'Cryptic the dungeons to hard' without any suggestions as to what can work.
In this case some undertones went beyond reason. That's the only reason I choose to even post. If a person can't suggest a problem/solution without calling anyone that disagrees to have some hidden agenda, being an employ or something else.....
Dungeon difficulty variety is a good solution with different loot, and I've suggested it various times (not in this thread).
And about players leaving, yes it's a shame, but what about all those that left ? and what the game level should be?
The OP mentioned two people, and I can list more that left so if we bring back mindless mod5 style grind where we will be ? With end game not balanced PvP and people who put effort in testing / math and so on leaving because what you test when you can solo with any build .
I'm not BiS, well geared but not BIS, artigear purple (except MH) and so on, and yet I can clear ToS most times without great issues. Thanks in large to groups that willing to talk and work together and change thing s or adapt, including to weird bugs , graphic fps drops due to some skills or even having one OP respecing out of Prim because you couldn't play with two OP in a party with Prism. And even if not succeeding than no one will rage quit.
Should I leave the game because I actually have friends / people that communicate to play with ?
What is the purpose of the MMO otherwise ?
As i said before, if a casual player have issues with gold, kits, getting one shot, they are all valid problems. But they are not an excuse to start a holly crusade (or something less holly) against people who manage to play the dungeons.
It's a balance of sorts honestly, at least how I see it. If that's contrary to the opinion of 80% of the Forum posters, that's fine by me. I'd hazard a guess, that the posters on the Forum are a minority (at best) of the players who play the game on a daily basis. Thus I do not extrapolate that 80% of ALL players 'hate Mod 6'.
Then again I spend a great deal of time playing the game... While also browsing the forums. :cool:
Guess I am the rarest bird in the trees then! lol
Yes and no. There have been some improvements with the game. But at the same time they did a hard reset on it too. And all of it does play into the kits topic we are on. From how hard the mobs hit and how much armor they have to how much health and armor pen we get.
I won't say 80% but it's split down the many different ways. You have your pocket warriors at straight up don't care. They'll pay regardless. You have people that are hard core but don't play often and have been driven away due to the mod. Same like the beta players or some of them not all. And you have the new comers who are going to be dealt the short hand from the start.
Whether you love or hate the mod is one thing. But it's a whole new convo when you bring into how the mod effects the future of the game.
Back to the topic of kits and potions. Yeah stat wise I don't think they knew exactly how the numbers would pan out. Just look at the new health potions and how much they heal for.
Problem is, the rest of us aren't.
One answer to the OP is to do what I do - avoid all trash mobs. Period. What's the point in fighting them? I think the e-peeners just want a hard zone to themselves so they can brag they're in it. Saw the same mentality in Everquest and every game since then.
I raised one of my 60s to 70. I absolutely feel sick thinking about doing it with my other seven. No way am I going through that again. So... I log out. There it is, for those of us who aren't gods.