What happened here?Why the tanks didn't kill you in one rotation?But instead you were melting them in 3-5 seconds (literally) each?
look here, 18k bull charge with full shield+ almost 70k from anvil (with almost full hp not less than 40%) and crescendo was even more than enough to melt CW in 1 rotaton, i think 2 skills are enough, CW has no 1 chance to win against GF 1 vs 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDbM6yKnqHw
If every power and every class just fully respected tenacity (for all aspects - cc, damage, arPen, crit) at the bare minimum, I think it would go a long way toward balancing the classes for PvP.
Playing a HR with a full burning set and running deflection just around %50 with AoLW, getting hit with Entangling force, still leads to the Entangling Force, Ray of Frost, Ice Knife/Icy Rays death/near-death rotation. It just gets worse when playing the DO-DC as it also has no CC immunity AND has no real way to build deflection.
Just because GWFs and TRs can break the CC quickly doesn't mean that tenacity and deflect make CC pointless. Unstoppable and ITC used well are what really keeps those classes a bit more protected.
Added: To help make this game more skill-based, I'd kill the ability to hard-lock.
80% DR with out shield? man best defensive GFs out there can hardly reach 36% DR.....36 to 80 is wayy way long.In any case in any mod ,GF could barely reach 53% DR as a human.
"80% from shield and 80% taken from the 20% left after shield Dr is applied. "
man are you speaking for GF?If you do then you are awfully wrong.As said Gf has 35% max DR in mod6.That DR is easily mitigated to zero by a number of enchantements and enemy toon feats.
GF shield offers a limited time and angle protection.180 degrees ,8 secs.If not GFs would dominate,but that does not happen ,it is your class (CW) that dominates.
In any case it strikes me negatively that a premade member,as you,joined in june 2013,has such huge misconception about GF.
As per mod 6 buffs GF gets +50% DR for 3 seconds from both lunging strike and bullrush. Ad the standard optimum DR to that and you hit the 80% DR cap. I can link to the mod6 patch notes on it but I don't think that's necessary. Playing defensively means timing these encounters to chain the DR boost.
Shield is not 360 but that kind of thing is relative because when we talk about attacks from the rear we get into combat advantage and a whole slew of feats that use it regardless of the class of the target.
About the premade PvP thing- I play way over my head with and against people I probably have no business being around lol. I am lucky to run with those who I do and to be in a kick *** guild.
I love GF. And CW. And gwf. And TR and sw and even hr when the devs are kind to it. I am just more about advocating for some classes to be buffed rather than others to be netfed.
Added: To help make this game more skill-based, I'd kill the ability to hard-lock.
Seriously this , + readd the 2 sec stealth reveal that they strangely removed, would fix so many problems. It'd stop 1v1 vs gf being a perma block situation, and it'd stop QQ from people who use target lock on perma tr's.
The control a CW has is outrageous. They have fast cast times, very useful dodges, great dps, and quick rotations. To balance the CW they need to increase cast times, and lower damage. CW is just part of the favored class system in Neverwinter.
Seriously this , + readd the 2 sec stealth reveal that they strangely removed, would fix so many problems. It'd stop 1v1 vs gf being a perma block situation, and it'd stop QQ from people who use target lock on perma tr's.
The stealth reveal is irrelevant to people who know what they're doing.
It was a patch for casuals to feel slightly more than useless. So instead of being rocked by a TR going 30-0, now he's going 30-2.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
Obsy its an wheel issue not an gf issue. Wheel proc hits harder than bull charge and anvil triggered by those powers in your video. It means something. So stop misslead ppl.
And with caping dr with gf argument it is just silly.... ITs 3 sec after encounter, when cced those buffs are gone and im stucked with 31% dr for oponnent to debuff with no cc breaker. GF is in midle in list of dr with all classes. We have shield to defend and im ok with that.
And its not 9 sec of block, its 20 with shield talent+offhand perk to be honest.
Obsy its an wheel issue not an gf issue. Wheel proc hits harder than bull charge and anvil triggered by those powers in your video. It means something. So stop misslead ppl.
yes you have some rights, this is in big part, fault of this artifact....but...when they will fix it, with their will of fix things and make game better? maybe never? in module 5 there were a few GFs who know how to fight and they kill CW without problems, and today with all these nonsense, bugs and broken mechanics game is just HAMSTER becouse these guys kill another classes on 2/3 encounters.
Only gfs? How about gwfs, trs, hrs. Wheel in one hand lostmauth in the other. How about OPs? PVP is a mess.... CWs are abusing it to. You just stack with your DC sigil and maybe you dont know that SS is trigering it too... Its broken beyond reason and pointing 1 class is plain stupid.
Obsy its an wheel issue not an gf issue. Wheel proc hits harder than bull charge and anvil triggered by those powers in your video. It means something. So stop misslead ppl.
And with caping dr with gf argument it is just silly.... ITs 3 sec after encounter, when cced those buffs are gone and im stucked with 31% dr for oponnent to debuff with no cc breaker. GF is in midle in list of dr with all classes. We have shield to defend and im ok with that.
And its not 9 sec of block, its 20 with shield talent+offhand perk to be honest.
My point about the GF +50% DR buff from lS and BR was just to point out that they are not less tanky than CWs as a result. That DR is conditional as you pointed out, like CW shield. An enemy has to cc the GF and land a few hits on the CW. GF gets tankier as it loses health, CW not so much. If you think CW is tankier than GF, I'd be interested in reading why. Maybe it is but right now I have no reason to think so.
CW Shield when broken still gives 25%. 10% which CWs usualy have +25% > 31%.
I am talking about ferocious reaction, martial mastery and all of the other feats and powers that buff/reflect damage as it is taken. I don't think of tankiness as pure DR but DR + how a build handles damage as it is taken; temp HP, more outgoing damage, ap buff, healing buff, and so on. To me, all of that ads up to GF being the tankiest class outside of maybe OP.
I don't think GF is op by any measure, I think it is right where it should be. Just my opinion.
On GF vs CW the cw shield is not what bothers me. What bothers me is cc through GF shield. That should not happen.
CW Shield when broken still gives 25%. 10% which CWs usualy have +25% > 31%.
^^^
oh ravenan.You try to tame the beast,by flattering them.it is a waste effort man.It does not work.As you already saw.
By trying to accept some of their ridicoulous Cw claims considering the GF,you will not gain their sympathy or you will not stop them asking for GF nerfs.
PVP-CW players are the most spoiled players in NW.They will never stop asking for nerfs to other classes.You cannot be reasonable with them.They will not see it as logic and will to compromise:Instead they will see it as weakness and they will ask for more.
these people are beyond reason.Two of the Cws that participated here and you tried to be reasonable with them are elite CWs.each of them has melted countless tanks in half rotaion or even just with att wills and storm spell procs.
They do not care about balance.they just want easy cheesy gameplay.
To all tank forumers: Cws will never be satisfied ,they will always ask for more.
That's how they gain buffsin every mod out of nowhere.
That's how a cloth wearing class is in mod6 more tanky from a GF.
That's how they got in mod6 an encounter (Disintegrate ) that with EOTS has more damage than a whole Gf rotation.
Yet you try to be reasonable with them.
I have news:It will not work.
The solution:Never accept anything concering Gf dawn adjustments.Never.They will ask for more.Continue attacking them in every possible way and tanks might not get buffs,but keep their current status.
^^^
oh ravenan.You try to tame the beast,by flattering them.it is a waste effort man.It does not work.As you already saw.
By trying to accept some of their ridicoulous Cw claims considering the GF,you will not gain their sympathy or you will not stop them asking for GF nerfs.
PVP-CW players are the most spoiled players in NW.They will never stop asking for nerfs to other classes.You cannot be reasonable with them.They will not see it as logic and will to compromise:Instead they will see it as weakness and they will ask for more.
these people are beyond reason.Two of the Cws that participated here and you tried to be reasonable with them are elite CWs.each of them has melted countless tanks in half rotaion or even just with att wills and storm spell procs.
They do not care about balance.they just want easy cheesy gameplay.
To all tank forumers: Cws will never be satisfied ,they will always ask for more.
That's how they gain buffsin every mod out of nowhere.
That's how a cloth wearing class is in mod6 more tanky from a GF.
That's how they got in mod6 an encounter (Disintegrate ) that with EOTS has more damage than a whole Gf rotation.
Yet you try to be reasonable with them.
I have news:It will not work.
The solution:Never accept anything concering Gf dawn adjustments.Never.They will ask for more.Continue attacking them in every possible way and tanks might not get buffs,but keep their current status.
I don't get it. Unless someone agrees a class should be nerfed, they are the enemy? When stalward bulwark gfs were wrecking everything I never asked for a Nerf. I played one. When IV sent gwfs were rocking the world I didn't ask for nerfs, I played one. Now TR and cw are like apex predators and I still don't ask for nerfs. I play those classes along with GF.
Gwf needs a lot of buffs. The class along with sw are neglected severely by the devs. If your playing wai.
Don't take it personal Over.i have nothing with you or with Obs.I have quarreled wth him in the past but he is a superb pvp cw and a good pve cw player.Nothing personal.
But what i wrote,i believe.You see ,from the start CW attracted the most mature players ,the most elegant-game style ones.
this lead to CW class to be the most noumerous and its players ,in numbers ,the most mature.While other classes write some arguments in the threads,CWs are a able to support their opinions with ACT logs and videos.
Ofcourse not all these logs and videos are objective:The majority is subjective to the bone.You post(as a class in total) and you push what suits you.And since you have the data (falsified or no ,it is irrelevant) ,the devs(especially the former team) accept them as honest feedback.
That's how you get buffed in every mod.
I still remember in begining of mod4 the reduce in casting times you got.I was astounded.Nothing was heard in community.Out of nowhere you got significant buffs.
If you stop and try to think objectively and ponder and wonder the current CW status ,any objective observer would be shocked:
The most ranged class with the most CC.N1 DPS, and the most tanky one with unmitigated shield.And ofcourse let's not forget the 66% ignore tenacity thing.Which is absurd even existing.
So to conclude:I believe what i wrote.You are so noumerous and aggressive that every thread-post that does not get a reply from a tank,creates an illusion-impression.
"Gfs are over tanky"
"Gfs one shot " LMAo.
etc.
that's why the time frame for negotiation and peacefull data analysis is long gone as concerning CWs vs Tanks.
hyper- actually my main ATM is TR but when I come back I gotta choose between TR, GF, or CW. My favorite to play is GF by far. But it is a shady investment because CWS generally get buffed and are a safe bet while fighters get the shaft. GF as it is now is beautiful. How long will that last though?
I understand the strategy of posting a certain way. I get too pissed off doing that though, for the reasons you mentioned. CW players are aggressive as hell. Like in the mod6 preview thread about buffing sws, CWS were there saying sws will top damage because of sigdev arti + TT. Rubbish.
Problem with this game is that they mix and mash one class with alot of roles, one tree should provide specialization in one aspect for example CW should not get bonus damage% from controlled opponents..... control should only control and damage should "just" damage.
Problem with this game is that they mix and mash one class with alot of roles, one tree should provide specialization in one aspect for example CW should not get bonus damage% from controlled opponents..... control should only control and damage should "just" damage.
The real problem with this game is the players that wants every other classes nerfed and their own buffed so they just can faceroll anything around. The simplest two examples would be :
-Destroyer GWF : has no CC, mid survivability and very high stackable damage . QQers still QQing about the damage and how they took a 80K IBS and that the damage should be nerfed.
-Trapper HR : has very low damage, low survivability and very strong CC . QQers still QQing about the CC and how they got perma CCed for 10 seconds and how it is broken and should be nerfed.
Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpbgQ6C2LAM
What happened here?Why the tanks didn't kill you in one rotation?But instead you were melting them in 3-5 seconds (literally) each?
look here, 18k bull charge with full shield+ almost 70k from anvil (with almost full hp not less than 40%) and crescendo was even more than enough to melt CW in 1 rotaton, i think 2 skills are enough, CW has no 1 chance to win against GF 1 vs 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDbM6yKnqHw
Playing a HR with a full burning set and running deflection just around %50 with AoLW, getting hit with Entangling force, still leads to the Entangling Force, Ray of Frost, Ice Knife/Icy Rays death/near-death rotation. It just gets worse when playing the DO-DC as it also has no CC immunity AND has no real way to build deflection.
Just because GWFs and TRs can break the CC quickly doesn't mean that tenacity and deflect make CC pointless. Unstoppable and ITC used well are what really keeps those classes a bit more protected.
Added: To help make this game more skill-based, I'd kill the ability to hard-lock.
As per mod 6 buffs GF gets +50% DR for 3 seconds from both lunging strike and bullrush. Ad the standard optimum DR to that and you hit the 80% DR cap. I can link to the mod6 patch notes on it but I don't think that's necessary. Playing defensively means timing these encounters to chain the DR boost.
Shield is not 360 but that kind of thing is relative because when we talk about attacks from the rear we get into combat advantage and a whole slew of feats that use it regardless of the class of the target.
About the premade PvP thing- I play way over my head with and against people I probably have no business being around lol. I am lucky to run with those who I do and to be in a kick *** guild.
I love GF. And CW. And gwf. And TR and sw and even hr when the devs are kind to it. I am just more about advocating for some classes to be buffed rather than others to be netfed.
Seriously this , + readd the 2 sec stealth reveal that they strangely removed, would fix so many problems. It'd stop 1v1 vs gf being a perma block situation, and it'd stop QQ from people who use target lock on perma tr's.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
The stealth reveal is irrelevant to people who know what they're doing.
It was a patch for casuals to feel slightly more than useless. So instead of being rocked by a TR going 30-0, now he's going 30-2.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
And with caping dr with gf argument it is just silly.... ITs 3 sec after encounter, when cced those buffs are gone and im stucked with 31% dr for oponnent to debuff with no cc breaker. GF is in midle in list of dr with all classes. We have shield to defend and im ok with that.
And its not 9 sec of block, its 20 with shield talent+offhand perk to be honest.
Steel and Magic
yes you have some rights, this is in big part, fault of this artifact....but...when they will fix it, with their will of fix things and make game better? maybe never? in module 5 there were a few GFs who know how to fight and they kill CW without problems, and today with all these nonsense, bugs and broken mechanics game is just HAMSTER becouse these guys kill another classes on 2/3 encounters.
Steel and Magic
Having both high control and high dps is wrong. But not just plain control lol)
Can agree with too much dps)
btw I think this thread is copy paste from HR - HR as ranged class has too much control etc.
PS Wheel and Lostmouth set are over abused by CWs agree on that )
My point about the GF +50% DR buff from lS and BR was just to point out that they are not less tanky than CWs as a result. That DR is conditional as you pointed out, like CW shield. An enemy has to cc the GF and land a few hits on the CW. GF gets tankier as it loses health, CW not so much. If you think CW is tankier than GF, I'd be interested in reading why. Maybe it is but right now I have no reason to think so.
CW Shield when broken still gives 25%. 10% which CWs usualy have +25% > 31%.
Steel and Magic
I am talking about ferocious reaction, martial mastery and all of the other feats and powers that buff/reflect damage as it is taken. I don't think of tankiness as pure DR but DR + how a build handles damage as it is taken; temp HP, more outgoing damage, ap buff, healing buff, and so on. To me, all of that ads up to GF being the tankiest class outside of maybe OP.
I don't think GF is op by any measure, I think it is right where it should be. Just my opinion.
On GF vs CW the cw shield is not what bothers me. What bothers me is cc through GF shield. That should not happen.
^^^
oh ravenan.You try to tame the beast,by flattering them.it is a waste effort man.It does not work.As you already saw.
By trying to accept some of their ridicoulous Cw claims considering the GF,you will not gain their sympathy or you will not stop them asking for GF nerfs.
PVP-CW players are the most spoiled players in NW.They will never stop asking for nerfs to other classes.You cannot be reasonable with them.They will not see it as logic and will to compromise:Instead they will see it as weakness and they will ask for more.
these people are beyond reason.Two of the Cws that participated here and you tried to be reasonable with them are elite CWs.each of them has melted countless tanks in half rotaion or even just with att wills and storm spell procs.
They do not care about balance.they just want easy cheesy gameplay.
To all tank forumers: Cws will never be satisfied ,they will always ask for more.
That's how they gain buffsin every mod out of nowhere.
That's how a cloth wearing class is in mod6 more tanky from a GF.
That's how they got in mod6 an encounter (Disintegrate ) that with EOTS has more damage than a whole Gf rotation.
Yet you try to be reasonable with them.
I have news:It will not work.
The solution:Never accept anything concering Gf dawn adjustments.Never.They will ask for more.Continue attacking them in every possible way and tanks might not get buffs,but keep their current status.
I don't get it. Unless someone agrees a class should be nerfed, they are the enemy? When stalward bulwark gfs were wrecking everything I never asked for a Nerf. I played one. When IV sent gwfs were rocking the world I didn't ask for nerfs, I played one. Now TR and cw are like apex predators and I still don't ask for nerfs. I play those classes along with GF.
Gwf needs a lot of buffs. The class along with sw are neglected severely by the devs. If your playing wai.
But what i wrote,i believe.You see ,from the start CW attracted the most mature players ,the most elegant-game style ones.
this lead to CW class to be the most noumerous and its players ,in numbers ,the most mature.While other classes write some arguments in the threads,CWs are a able to support their opinions with ACT logs and videos.
Ofcourse not all these logs and videos are objective:The majority is subjective to the bone.You post(as a class in total) and you push what suits you.And since you have the data (falsified or no ,it is irrelevant) ,the devs(especially the former team) accept them as honest feedback.
That's how you get buffed in every mod.
I still remember in begining of mod4 the reduce in casting times you got.I was astounded.Nothing was heard in community.Out of nowhere you got significant buffs.
If you stop and try to think objectively and ponder and wonder the current CW status ,any objective observer would be shocked:
The most ranged class with the most CC.N1 DPS, and the most tanky one with unmitigated shield.And ofcourse let's not forget the 66% ignore tenacity thing.Which is absurd even existing.
So to conclude:I believe what i wrote.You are so noumerous and aggressive that every thread-post that does not get a reply from a tank,creates an illusion-impression.
"Gfs are over tanky"
"Gfs one shot " LMAo.
etc.
that's why the time frame for negotiation and peacefull data analysis is long gone as concerning CWs vs Tanks.
I understand the strategy of posting a certain way. I get too pissed off doing that though, for the reasons you mentioned. CW players are aggressive as hell. Like in the mod6 preview thread about buffing sws, CWS were there saying sws will top damage because of sigdev arti + TT. Rubbish.
The real problem with this game is the players that wants every other classes nerfed and their own buffed so they just can faceroll anything around. The simplest two examples would be :
-Destroyer GWF : has no CC, mid survivability and very high stackable damage . QQers still QQing about the damage and how they took a 80K IBS and that the damage should be nerfed.
-Trapper HR : has very low damage, low survivability and very strong CC . QQers still QQing about the CC and how they got perma CCed for 10 seconds and how it is broken and should be nerfed.