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A Few Suggestions to Balance TRs in PVP
daimyon
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 49
Just a few suggestions I came up with that would bring TRs more in line with the rest of the classes.
1. No restealthing while in combat: I don't think you should be able to just disappear in the open, especially when someone is targeting you, or worse, actively channeling a spell on you.
2. Increase the cooldown on Smoke Bomb: This should be used more as a get away ability to disengage a fight when you need to run away. But as it is, it's being used as an AoE Daze in nearly every fight a TR engages in.
3. PVP CC Reduction: Pretty much every other CC effect is subject to duration penalties when it's used against another player in PVP, rogues don't have this problem though.
4. Lashing Blade: Reduce the damage this ability causes. It makes the class too easy to build around 1-shotting people, and negates a lot of required skill to be effective in PVP.
5. Perma-Stealth: This is just unfair.
6. Cloud of Steel: Their ranged ability hits just as hard as their melee ability. A rogue can stay at range, do damage to a melee class, and never have to worry about engaging in melee combat because if they don't get hit, their stealth bar regenerates without penalty.
Anyways, just a few ideas to throw out there.
1. No restealthing while in combat: I don't think you should be able to just disappear in the open, especially when someone is targeting you, or worse, actively channeling a spell on you.
2. Increase the cooldown on Smoke Bomb: This should be used more as a get away ability to disengage a fight when you need to run away. But as it is, it's being used as an AoE Daze in nearly every fight a TR engages in.
3. PVP CC Reduction: Pretty much every other CC effect is subject to duration penalties when it's used against another player in PVP, rogues don't have this problem though.
4. Lashing Blade: Reduce the damage this ability causes. It makes the class too easy to build around 1-shotting people, and negates a lot of required skill to be effective in PVP.
5. Perma-Stealth: This is just unfair.
6. Cloud of Steel: Their ranged ability hits just as hard as their melee ability. A rogue can stay at range, do damage to a melee class, and never have to worry about engaging in melee combat because if they don't get hit, their stealth bar regenerates without penalty.
Anyways, just a few ideas to throw out there.
Post edited by daimyon on
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Comments
The thing is, they know how to adjust abilities effectiveness in PVP so that it doesn't affect PVE. I mean I play a hunter ranger, and my roots are pathetically weak if I don't play a trapper build, and even then, their duration is halved in PVP.
DENIAL
From what I have seen it looks and run a lot better
HR can guarantee you miss your opener with fox's cunning, constantly restealth as well, root you in place for days, and shoot your *** from a distance. So I gotta ask... why would you want HR's to run rampant on the loose with no one to even try to put them in check after nerfing rogues? Or CW's for that matter... dude, have you fought against 4 CW's and a healer that are good? hell, even bad lol.
GFs, GWFs (for the most part), and definitely DC's are fine as well...
So tell me what other class can stay stealth...recharge stealth while stealth..one hit enemy..stay stealth(or pretty **** close to it)...range attack...ect,,,just from one daily
Every one deserves to have an oppinion. But TRs have been the first class to constantly get bashed and nerf batted to uselessness. You dont see us complaining about how over geared CWs 1 shot every class, or how SW's can pop you outta stealth with out even having a target but because our class has stealth we are the ******* sons of DnD. Every class has skills to pop rogues out of stealth, and since the mod 4 nerf bat permastealth is very hard to accieve so it is not even an issue. If you dont want to get punked by a rogue, learn your aoe stuns every class has em now, or get you pvp set built correctly.
Personally I play both pc and xbox and both hate rogues to the point to where we have to solo group epic dungeons, which is why we are skilling up faster than most classes; we have learned to survive in hostile enviroments because the community has forced us to do so.
Rogue for Life!
Lol mmo's are not supposed to be rushed through in a week or less. Go to WoW and see how far you make it in a week
And while these other classes are doing this, they are also one shotting people...not...nope....only the rogue can stay stealth and one shot.
THE GWF is was the first to be nerfed
My question to you is why do you expect damage dealing/survivability parity across all the classes? It's a team-based game where classes compliment each other. Each class has its own strengths and weaknesses. The TRs strength is high damage potential via surprise attacks and, along with the HR, the ability to run maps as lone wolves to disrupt the enemy or backcap. Its weaknesses are ease of being controlled, limited survivability (other than stealth), no effective ranged attack, no support or party buff/enemy debuff abilities, and lower HP. TRs die quickly when forced into a 2 (or more)-on-1 situation. If you take the TR stealth mechanic away (or even change it from how it currently works) the class becomes pointless to play.
Incidentally, I've never managed to one shot anyone in PvP with my Rogue and I run a high-damage, single-target build. I have some success killing single DPS targets (using multiple shots), but I have a heck of a time killing GFs who guard and keep their shield toward me. I also can't kill DCs unless they are alone and I can daze and beat on them for a while before help comes. Now, I'd agree that the TR control powers could be toned down in PvP (especially since they did so for all the other classes), and fixing the PF/SoD bug would balance things out too, but changing the stealth mechanic as you've described would completely break the class. Your ideas would nerf the TR worse than the GWF.
And for what it's worth, I'd much rather see boosts to other classes than nerfs to one in most cases. Nerfing the TR (or any class) doesn't just affect PvP, and the PvE balance is actually quite good. What's better, nerfing a class to "fix" PvP and breaking the PvE experience most players enjoy, or boosting the other classes and risk them doing a bit more damage and/or surviving a little longer in PvE? I say the boosting is less destructive to the core game mode (PvE). I don't see anyone complaining about their team members doing more damage or surviving longer in dungeon and skirmish runs...
Using any encounter, other than Bait n Switch and Shadow Strike, will bring the TR immediately out of stealth. So no, a TR cannot one shot you and stay in stealth.
TR's encounters, especially Lashing Blade, are incredibly easy to dodge or run away from. I recommend using head phones if you aren't, as listening to the game sounds in NW PvP is literally half the battle.
See the animation >Dodge>Win
Fighting a TR in stealth? Listen for the sound>dodge>"dodge the encounter"
I've seen many in PVP hit and kill and stay in stealth......many.....and many others have too....and many one shots..so what you are saying is complete HAMSTER...
The only way I can see that as possible is if they proc One with Shadows on the Lashing hit and immediately re-stealth. Don't really expect to see Sabos running with Lashing in the first place, and any TR that specs for Sabo can't spec into some of the key elements that make 1-shotting (remotely) possible anyway.
The scenario you describe just doesn't happen.
The way I see it, then, our disagreement stems from one of two things:
EITHER:
OR:
In the interest of creating clarity on this topic, here's my proposal to you:
I challenge you to post a video clip of the behavior you are describing (rogue one-shotting someone from stealth and staying in stealth). If you do, I will give you a cova ward in game, and I will post here on the forums that you are correct. If you are unable to do so, you will give me a cova ward in game, and you will post on the forums that I am correct.
If this agreement is good for you, please reply with your acceptance within 24 hours of this post. I will then give you a full 7 days from your acceptance to post the video requested (should be plenty of time if it truly happens a lot).
To be extra clear, here is the behavior that should be documented in the video:
Wow. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Maybe your idea of One Shot is different than mine.
One shot to me, means you do One single encounter or ability/daily, and take an enemy from 100% life to 0% resulting in death.
If you agree that is what "One Shot" means, than no my friend. It isn't happening.
TR's have two potential abilities that "can" result in a true one shot. One being Shocking Execution(a daily in the MI Paragon), and two being Lashing Blade. As I am a WK TR and do not use Shocking, I am unsure if it takes the TR out of Stealth(It should, but I am not 100% sure).
Lashing Blade however, will immediately remove the TR from stealth. Its not a maybe, or kinda...it's fact.
It is possible that a Sab spec TR could potentially one shot someone with Lashing, then proc One with Shadows...but it seems highly unlikely. As per the PvP community, generally the newer TR's will be running an Executioner Spec(one shot build), and the more experienced PvP players run Sab Spec. That being said, using Lashing as a Sab TR is a silly thing to do, and the chances of you running into a Sab spec'd TR with the gear to one shot you with Lashing...will not be using Lashing, as that's not typically the play-style of the build.
I do however know one TR who uses Lashing as Sab. But the way you talk about "TR's continually one shotting people and staying in stealth", is not common at all.
I recommend doing your best to read your combat log after these things happen. You might discover the truth behind this silliness
I play a TR, and I do not use the Executioner Path. Personally I could care less if they completely removed Lashing Blade altogether. However, they aren't going to and they certainly aren't going to be changing it anytime soon.
If you would just read a little of what I have said, things might get easier for you.
Lashing Blade is probably the easiest encounter in the game to dodge. It has a very obvious sound. Hear the sound >Dodge, there ya go.
Does it mean you are never going to get hit by one? No, but you can greatly reduce the times you are, if you pay attention to whats going on around you.
No madder what class you play, if you want to enjoy PvP and be moderately competitive..you need a minimum 25k health(28K+ ideal), 25% damage resistance, 40+% Deflect, and atleast 20% Tenacity.
As a new lvl 60 it is going to be difficult, as the game has been out long enough where there are plenty of players in full Profound gear and Rank 8+ enchants with Perfect Weapon/Armor enchants. If and when you run into these players, being discouraged is the last thing that should be happening. The majority of the PvP community has moderate gear, with moderate to above average skill. There are definitely elite players out there, but trust me..they are few and far between.
If you want to continue wasting your time posting on the forums asking for changes that will never happen...then I got nothing for ya bud. GL to you
Hey MR I think I know it all....they nerfed 3 classes on pc...only one class is nerfed so far on xbox..(that be great GWF)....so before you breathing down all might..the rogue stealth kills and on shot still on xbox....I know they cured that on pc..but they have not on xbox...
Well my friend you are in for a rude awakening when Mod 6 reaches Xbox.
If you want to rage over not being able to dodge Lashing Blade by a bad TR. Wait till good TR's in Mod 6 are crapping all over you with just Cloud of Steel.
Enjoy. https://youtu.be/MDErqrBU0IQ