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game breaking bugs handling - serious discussion. Vol2- keep forums rules plz
name0rng
Member Posts: 52
Ok first one closed by mode .. I have read all the rules and made tweaks .. I think now this discussion would stay Alive as it should :
*do not directly talk about exploits - we are only talk about the best way to handle them as community and give feedback to the devs.
So here is my original post with tweaks :
Hello community
I'm in game for almost a year now and read forums regular to catch up what's new etc etc
It's sad my first post is about this issue but I actually found myself getting angry in game and this is never happened to me because of the idea that games are for fun and not for anger management
In advance ... This thread is serious business only ... There is lot of "noise" in those forum .. Lots of whining .. Yes sad but true .. U know this .. So plz keep them away from this discussion .. Only smart comments that contribute to this discussion .. So the devs can really listen and not pass it ..
It's time to seriously discuss the handling of game breaking bugs that currently in game, the action that should needed to be taken against them .. And against the abusers
First off if u one of the abusers .. And I know some of them are here .. Plz Don't comment.. Dont insult .. u can always watch ..So just don't .. It's discussion for legit players who understand how this issues ruin the game in long term
Now ...
as community I think we need to stand against this game breaking exploits in one front .. Enough of the light treatment discussion , If u want this game will have bright future as it deserve because for me it's far the best action RPGs mmo on the market ( plz don't comment if u think it's not , it is not the discussion ) and still has huge potential to grow...
But.. and this is huge but :
Currently there are bugs in game that hurting this game in the long run .. I'm not talking about the light bugs or even the medium bugs (like some not working rank 4 powers, the bugged feats etc that mentions in bug report forums) .. The devs seems to try to fix them .. Even if not fast .. It seems that after couples of "bad months" we go on good direction on this ..
I don't talk about them ...no...
The problem is the game breaking bugs-exploits that causing ppl get huge advantage over others ( 2 generally known in public .. Maybe there r more ) ... And indirectly destroy the In game economy .. And most important .. The play for fun part ..
This ruin this game future .. In creditably .. Users for long run ... And last - the profitable equation
Handling abusers:
How u treat those game abusers? It seems the soft hand approach .. And it's un logical if I thinking as business man ... players using this are reported.. Something happen to them ? Maybe some get punished.. Not all .. And my opinion every ppl that uses those exploits need to be punished .. I won't discuss the punishment itself cause it's forbidden and edited ..
As community we punish them ourself? No .. That's huge problem .. Even if majority of us don't use them .lots of us turn our face .. and it needed to be change .. Why not report more ? Why not don't party with them ? It is always encourage them to continue
the action that needed to take against them is so important for the future ..so for once -one huge support as community will help
Handling fixes:
game breaking bugs can happen .. It cannot be avoided all the time .. The question is what u do when u find out about them .. And in this part the devs and our community I believe not handling well at all.. And this is understatement . For the devs part - hot fix needed immediately go out when those happen.. But sadly they are not .. Ev1 with sense of business model for freemium to premium know that the company looses money for this delays of getting them fixed ..a lot of directly and indirectly income that needed to support the game is lost ..
I won't start to explain the chain of it ...that in the end is loosing money .. But if u want little personal touch ..
I believe in support the game .. Which mean I buy zen .. Every couple of months .. 50 bucks here and there .. Like subscription I look at it ..
And Right now it's the time in the cycle I buy zen .. And guess what .. I don't have the motivation to buy anymore .. Not me .. Not a lot of players like me .. Why? Because we see players who don't work hard in game and \or Don't put money .. And they get more ..because of bugs only... Because of lack of fixes
My final approach- our community :
And now us the community ..maybe it's time to take action seriously ... For start .. We can report more.. Bugs and users
We can decide that we are not team up \ accept in guilds\ accept in channels bug abusers
Seems naive? It's not ! We can do this as one big legit community
another actions that can influence for positive outcome I removed because of forums rule
So plz keep it based upon this suggested action for now
And Let's start by making this adult ,legit , serious discussion ...For this game future
Ty
*do not directly talk about exploits - we are only talk about the best way to handle them as community and give feedback to the devs.
So here is my original post with tweaks :
Hello community
I'm in game for almost a year now and read forums regular to catch up what's new etc etc
It's sad my first post is about this issue but I actually found myself getting angry in game and this is never happened to me because of the idea that games are for fun and not for anger management
In advance ... This thread is serious business only ... There is lot of "noise" in those forum .. Lots of whining .. Yes sad but true .. U know this .. So plz keep them away from this discussion .. Only smart comments that contribute to this discussion .. So the devs can really listen and not pass it ..
It's time to seriously discuss the handling of game breaking bugs that currently in game, the action that should needed to be taken against them .. And against the abusers
First off if u one of the abusers .. And I know some of them are here .. Plz Don't comment.. Dont insult .. u can always watch ..So just don't .. It's discussion for legit players who understand how this issues ruin the game in long term
Now ...
as community I think we need to stand against this game breaking exploits in one front .. Enough of the light treatment discussion , If u want this game will have bright future as it deserve because for me it's far the best action RPGs mmo on the market ( plz don't comment if u think it's not , it is not the discussion ) and still has huge potential to grow...
But.. and this is huge but :
Currently there are bugs in game that hurting this game in the long run .. I'm not talking about the light bugs or even the medium bugs (like some not working rank 4 powers, the bugged feats etc that mentions in bug report forums) .. The devs seems to try to fix them .. Even if not fast .. It seems that after couples of "bad months" we go on good direction on this ..
I don't talk about them ...no...
The problem is the game breaking bugs-exploits that causing ppl get huge advantage over others ( 2 generally known in public .. Maybe there r more ) ... And indirectly destroy the In game economy .. And most important .. The play for fun part ..
This ruin this game future .. In creditably .. Users for long run ... And last - the profitable equation
Handling abusers:
How u treat those game abusers? It seems the soft hand approach .. And it's un logical if I thinking as business man ... players using this are reported.. Something happen to them ? Maybe some get punished.. Not all .. And my opinion every ppl that uses those exploits need to be punished .. I won't discuss the punishment itself cause it's forbidden and edited ..
As community we punish them ourself? No .. That's huge problem .. Even if majority of us don't use them .lots of us turn our face .. and it needed to be change .. Why not report more ? Why not don't party with them ? It is always encourage them to continue
the action that needed to take against them is so important for the future ..so for once -one huge support as community will help
Handling fixes:
game breaking bugs can happen .. It cannot be avoided all the time .. The question is what u do when u find out about them .. And in this part the devs and our community I believe not handling well at all.. And this is understatement . For the devs part - hot fix needed immediately go out when those happen.. But sadly they are not .. Ev1 with sense of business model for freemium to premium know that the company looses money for this delays of getting them fixed ..a lot of directly and indirectly income that needed to support the game is lost ..
I won't start to explain the chain of it ...that in the end is loosing money .. But if u want little personal touch ..
I believe in support the game .. Which mean I buy zen .. Every couple of months .. 50 bucks here and there .. Like subscription I look at it ..
And Right now it's the time in the cycle I buy zen .. And guess what .. I don't have the motivation to buy anymore .. Not me .. Not a lot of players like me .. Why? Because we see players who don't work hard in game and \or Don't put money .. And they get more ..because of bugs only... Because of lack of fixes
My final approach- our community :
And now us the community ..maybe it's time to take action seriously ... For start .. We can report more.. Bugs and users
We can decide that we are not team up \ accept in guilds\ accept in channels bug abusers
Seems naive? It's not ! We can do this as one big legit community
another actions that can influence for positive outcome I removed because of forums rule
So plz keep it based upon this suggested action for now
And Let's start by making this adult ,legit , serious discussion ...For this game future
Ty
Post edited by name0rng on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
atm there is no reason not to abuse bugs(laws aka. ToS without enforcement arent worth the space they take on hard drives), there is 0 enforcement, i dont know of a single case of somebody being banned for bug abuse
and as nobody gets punished for that many ppl feel its ok to do that, i personally dislike it, but i stopped giving a s... about ppl abusing them long time ago as long as it doesnt affect me directly - if the company doesnt care about abusers why should players
That was the biggest @!%#&^#$ this game thrown at us so far.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
I agree with your post. However, I also think that it is not just the players that should be involved, but the board moderators and community manager may also chip in to help combat the bugs to make this process more efficient.
For instance, the grouping of bugs can be placed in 3 different categories so that we know what stage they are in, for example:
(1) Preview bugs - Bugs that are found on the preview server that have not made it on the 'live' server yet
(2) Unhandled reports - Bugs which have been reported on the 'live' server that have not yet been fixed. The moderators and/or community manager can then tag reports as: 'Accepted' (meaning the bug is confirmed by the devs a fix is underway), 'Unconfirmed' (meaning more information is needed) or 'Invalid' (if a bug report is wrong or unnecessary)
(3) Completed - Bugs which have been addressed by the devs and have been fixed (to be used as an archive)
The way that bugs are reported now seems haphazard, with different people posting the same issue spread over a number of days, with sporadic acknowledgement from the gaming developers.
Hopefully with their input also we could make bug reporting more streamlined and dynamic.
In fact lets do an experiment , I can tell the CM/GM's right now where exploiters are , lets see if anybody gets banned.
Place - Well of Dragons , Heralds , use combat log to view others damage , anything around over one billion is an exploit.
Time - Forty five minutes past every hour until fifty five minutes past every hour
Channel - Just about all channels
See doesn't exactly take the skills of Sherlock to track them down but same as the Arcane reservoir botters for the past 18 months nada will get done to them , the sad thing is that due to the herald cheats being real players if a couple did get perma banned it would probably result in the majority of the others stopping such behavior..
If company would only care a tiny bit, it would be pretty easy to catch them, there are software solutions and there is the human eye also. Zone Chat or Trade Channel is full of exploited goods and if an Admin would read it and would care, he or she could easily nail them. I am actually just a normal player, but i see the exploiter from a mile away.
And i left the biggest problem for the end, sadly many in the gaming community praise these big time exploiters, many think, wow this guy is so cool and they actually endorse the exploiters. So yeah, community should look in the mirror too.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
And for that I totally not agree .. It's a narrow view .. U have to realize that what killing game the most is those things .
If u want I can get more specific and explain the whole chain why this exploits and handling them are the Most dangerous issue for "free to play but plz do pay" mmo game
Yes Even more then the lack of content , the unbalance in PvP, the difficulty level in pve
All of them need serious talking and doing , as they are - in threads on this forum and by devs patches .
The button line- what will make the game in long term not profitable is game breaking exploits , the "pay players " that support this game can have patient with all the things above mentioned , off course till certain degree ..but have patience , But zero patience in term of put money to the game when there is unfair exploit advantage that is using by another . When it made public knowledge u - loose zen income , loose legit players , stay with the exploiters only .
And Eventually there will be no more paying users = death to the game
In the case of the blade and feytouched, unless perhaps they were abusing it massively, you can't punish the majority of users for a bugged item and just expect them to not use it, some might not even know what's causing it (the player base is massive, there's always someone). Like you said, these are issues that are supposed to be hotfixed. It's their responsibility. They should have been less accepting of exploitation towards the start, but like I said, it's now an accepted part in general.
Plus I decided to actually try tiamat. The group didn't even manage to kill the black head after 3 rounds. Funnily enough people were still blaming the afkers. It only makes sense to me that people would use bugs to clear it. Though personally I'm not even sure if tiamat has anything that's worth the effort.
while i do agree that heavy bug abusers should be banned and there are bugs that anyone using it knows its a bug(at least after a few tries to confirm it how it works) there are gray area bbugs that should warrant a ban only after stated as a bug by devs - for example letter to every account, then simply permaban all abusers - smth like the old FT GF thing
This is sadly 100% true! That's why many big time exploiters are still here, despite being reported dozen times, i think for Cryptic it would sound terrible to admit, that a few of their best horses run on steroids. Imagine all the sites like MMOMinds.com or MMORPG.com, that are closely linked to Cryptic having to take down some articles or builds coming from these "geniuses". Some of these supermen are actually so sure of themselves, that they post on YouTube, sometimes not even hiding their true identity.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
As always i can only agree with you mate, nice to see some decent people still being around!
Yes from only real life standpoint bugs are a hard case to judge, sometimes nobody can evade to be a victim of them, so that falls under a different view in my opinion.
Exploits on the other hand, like the 1 shooting of dragons and then selling the artifacts they drop for good profit are a prime example of exploits and no pardon should be allowed.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I believe that workers in big companies like pwe have business sense- sometimes not for the best , but still have it , because of that I don't believe it's true , there is big lost of profitably in long term by this strategy , there is a limit how much u can mislead consumers nowadays , with the strong communications and feedback over the internet and social media . I think it's more conspiracy stuffs other then true facts .
and that is why i think that the representative of this company need to make public statement about fighting those exploits .. More then just some words ,
there is new community manager here , seems nice and friendly to me , so why not get involved ? Why not using good strategies that are implanted in other big games companies that say out loud - " no using exploits in here , if u use , u loose "
I'm really hoping that all of that "it's benefit them theories " are just because they wasn't fast enough to fight it in its core .
I hope it will change , first by addressing the community with official comments on this exploits going around and their plan how to fight it with us the community
Yes a nice statement followed by actions, which is a huge ban hammer for the mass exploiters would be adequate and very needed.
All parts of the game are effected by exploits, but it hurts nowhere so much as in PVP. Domination is now so much in a bad state, like it was never. Exploiters use these chaotic times and they stomp the legit and honest players in ground. No wonder that only premades and those exploiters run now the business in Domination. Everybody else, who hasn't lost his appetite for PVP is now playing Gauntlgrym PVP. BUT this shouldn't be so, little cheaters should get a slap and away with their toys and the big time exploiters should be banned, no one would cry a tier after them.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
There was a critical/key word in you're statement. Namely "long term". Many a business these days has their eyes only on the short term.
As I said in another post, you would have to ban all players, if this would be their rule. Why? For every class there have been skills not working as intended. Furthermore, there are sets and setboni not working as intended. Should all players respec their char or stop playing, buy another enchant etc. bc PW did either not test or not react to reports?
By your logic every faithful DC who ever played PvP would have to be banned. In MOD 5 PREVIEW feedback someone reported, that gift of faith does not respect healing depression and stacks way over DCs HP. A DEV said, that that is not intended. It should not give more HP (than DCs or targets max HP) and give half of the heal in PvP. Guess what, they NEVER fixed it. Here is a bug REPORTED AND CONFIRMED BY DEV and nothing happened. Should they ban them? No, bc it is PWs fault, not their own.
I could go on and on, SOD multiproc for TR, HV stacking, AP generating DC etc. Sometimes they confirm an issue, sometimes they fix it and sometimes they ignore it.
IMO they should disable game breaking bugs asap, if they are sure it is gamebreaking, and fix it with the next patch. Furthermore there are some feats/effects clearly not WAI (SW/ blade), some OP (weel of elements, LOL-setbonus) and some minor (GWF: WM gives, I think 1 or 2% more crit, than the tooltip describes). Who decides what is a bug, what is an exploit? You or some players in the community, no, the DEVs. If someone uses game breaking bugs, generating millions of AD, he should get banned, bc no one can say 'OMG, I did not know'. Everything else is up to the DEVs.
Last bit to think about, feytouched enchant. Some ppl posted crazy dmg. Not confirmed by DEV, but clearly not WAI. Should someone with a feytouched drop it, until it works propperly or fear a ban, even without confirmation by DEV and if he has no other enchant? IMO, no.
Sorry but I can’t say that I agree with your POV. The game has lots of things to complain about right now, but before you throw stones and call for perm bans, think to yourself does this game even work at all in its current state, IMHO no it doesn’t and most of the reasons are not player related, right now it seems to me that Criptic is trying to sell a product that they know doesn’t work. The content is pretty much unplayable for anyone playing solo past level 70. I know they are working on this and salute their efforts but If your car won’t start and you dont have the money for a part should you be blamed if you find a way to hotwire it so you can drive to work? By same token should zergers be penalized for making Tiamat work in Mod 5? Zerg was not WAI and everyone was ok with it.
Most of these item bugs that do unforeseen damage were discovered by accident and almost all of them have already been reported, should someone not use the offhand artifact that they just spent everything they had on or not use that perfect enchant that cost them hours and hours to obtain just because devs haven’t got around to fixing the problem yet, and given the current state of the game’s playability I can’t blame others for obtaining those items so they can complete the content as well, although I do not condone it.
Not to root for the bad guys but almost everyone in the game has inadvertently benefitted from the botters by buying items in AH to level up artifacts and still stacks and stacks of those items are for sale in AH, personally I don’t like the botters but frankly where would we be without them, We would spend years trying to increase artifact levels, a lot of people who tried to farm legitimately with dragon hoard enchants were recently blindsided by the game finding their hard earned enchants hadn’t been working as they were led to believe they would for weeks without any mention from the devs that they had been tinkered with other than there was a cool down on them. No wonder people start moving toward bad behavior in the game, again unplayable content is ultimately to blame, we need to be able to level up our equipment.
Just my personal opinion but I consider it a cheat to pay not to play content in the campaigns and to receive boons for doing so, if you want those boons do the time in the game to earn them. If people who start these types of strings have said themselves, doing something to put yourself ahead of others in the game without doing what it takes to get those things is a cheat, can’t have it both morally just because you have money to burn.
I consider myself a FTP person in the game, I have spent money on it in the past and will again but I am not a whale and I think that Cryptic makes a mistake IMHO by franticly trying to solicit these people, they aren’t going anywhere, all you have to do is lower the price of the items in the Zen market and more people will spend money. Better to get $20 from 40000 people than $2000 from 100 and just like in the case of the golden beetle mount just make a absurdly high priced version of the same thing in the color gold and the whales will eat it up, everyone wins.
I would be much happier if the game would go after guild robbers/destroyers, yes destroyers I was in a guild that was hacked and destroyed we pled for days for game moderators to take action and return control of the guild to us and ban the perp, but I guess they were working on more important things at the time. A 500 character guild totally destroyed by lack of being able to prioritize and give quick attention to the game’s problems . Lost many good friends that day that I haven’t seen since. You should think about that before bringing out a new mod that is built around guilds competing with each other, you may be opening a whole new can of worms.
All in all I love the game and will keep playing hoping that time will allow it to heal and get back on track, secretly I hope that all this gearing up and meeting Minsc and Boo was done so that we can eventually chase Tiamat back into the nine hells and destroy her on her turf.
y u no liek quarterly capitalism? r u soem kinda commie?
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
That's HAMSTER and you know it. I'm so sick of the excuse "the game is so hard that they force us to cheat". Not punishing the exploiters would be like punishing those that play without cheating. I don't even care about perma-banning them, but wiping their items/currency would be a start. Just so everyone knows cheating isn't earning you any profits.
And yes, we can expect people to unslot an echant that does billions of damage. Nobody can see that and think "yeah, that's fine". Same goes for running the companion that one-shots dragons. Just unsummon it. Can push a t2 dungeon boss to it's instant death? Just don't do it.
This is not your car that's not running. It's their game and it's our community and cheating is just pathetic.
Of course it is an exploit and it is nothing like a badly coded power or set of powers that have unexpected effects , people have to get the companion and level it up to a certain level before it can be used to carry out the exploit , in other words it is something they have control over whether they use it or not , also you might find it funny to one hit heralds but I'm sure that the other 20 odd people in the channel many of whom may only get to be online 1 or 2 hours a day so probably only get to run 1 or 2 herald runs per day don't find it funny that they don't get a chance at herald kills because some cheater has run ahead of the group and 1 hit all the dragons .