This expansion looks like something the game has been missing.
What they NEED to do to make this game succeed is to make an activity called "stronghold raiding" and make it NON-CONSENSUAL. All players in guilds will have a certain minimum part of their assets "bound to guild," made available for stronghold raiding. For example, the first 1 million AD on each character, not too large a sum. A guild can then attack another guild and engage in a battle, and the margin of victory determines how much of the losing guild's bound assets are transferred to the winners. If the win is by say 1,000-850, that's a 15% margin, so 15% of the losing guild's assets are forfeit.
Of course, in order to prevent sheer numbers from prevailing, only a limited number of champions from each guild are allowed to participate.
THEN, they can add guild alliance systems, so that guilds are allowed to get PROTECTION from stronger guilds, who can champion the weaker guilds in stronghold raids, against a modest fee, of course. This would obviously be a recurring arrangement, with WEAK guilds using their time to FARM and pay for protection from STRONG guilds that spend their time mastering the arts of WAR.
This would be a great step forwards in the history of the game -- a system that is truly appropriate to the setting -- MERCILESS and FEUDAL. Finally, it would evolve a proper ecosystem in the game among the game's players, with APEX PREDATORS controlling the mightiest stronghold alliances. In order to FARM the ENVIRONMENT in peace and be protected from the apex predators, many players would need to pay TAXES to their new overlords.
What a glorious module that would be.
+1 on this idea. Anything to progress to the game's demise, is good for me.
Yup, its as if we bought what we thought was a home (with our attention, time and for many, money) but instead it was a hotel room, and mod 6 was checkout day.
Well, i hope there will be pvp based stronghold and a PVE based stronghold so its content can be enjoyed by all community. They could make PVE stronghold occupy by NPC and any guild that is 1st to place the flag in the submit gets the stronghold. After the NPC will try to retake the stronghold every week. The mob will get stronger with each week till the guild is overwhelmed and the stronghold is open again. That would be cool IMO.
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Well, i hope there will be pvp based stronghold and a PVE based stronghold so its content can be enjoyed by all community. They could make PVE stronghold occupy by NPC and any guild that is 1st to place the flag in the submit gets the stronghold. After the NPC will try to retake the stronghold every week. The mob will get stronger with each week till the guild is overwhelmed and the stronghold is open again. That would be cool IMO.
It would be fun to see a full out war between all the big PvP guilds, in a sporty manner!
It would be fun to see a full out war between all the big PvP guilds, in a sporty manner!
It would probably be a lot like some of the PvP I've seen in IWD.. which is reminiscent of every high school fight I've ever seen... everyone standing around, talking sh*t to each other... lol
The ridiculous amount of misinformation all based on pathetically pessimistic conjecture is amazing in this thread.
How about, rather than just making-up scenarios based on pure imagination, we actually try to surmise what will happen and how things will work based on actual real existing similar criteria, such as the Fleet Starbases at Star Trek Online and why them? Because STO is created by the same Development Company using the same game engine and both STO and NW share and cross-develop ideas and mechanics all the time. Based on that criteria the following can realistically be surmised:
Player versus Player game play will be instanced events; players must opt-in, not opt-out. These events will likely organized by the players themselves in a 'challenge' like scenario.
Guild Members will contribute resources to the Stronghold in order for the stronghold to build/improve that stronghold. These resources are gathered by the member players through other game events, PvP and even PvE gameplay; such as "Reputation" points and crafting resources/crafting items, etc.
"Wallet-warriors" have nothing to do with it and hence is nothing more than free-to-play-only players dribbling their envious tripe and rhetoric about those who actually spend some entertainment money on the game (which, by the way we all know: allows them to play for free. 'Nuff said.) And I'll wager 95% of these "wallet-warriors" are actually the casual players because the elitists are elitist: they don't need to spend any money to get what they want. Figure it out, people: simple deductive reasoning while leaving out the emotion.
As for all the "balance" and "bugs galore" comments: you aren't telling anyone anything they don't already know. And that problem stems from the ridiculously tight schedule Cryptic is trying to maintain with 'new content' additions every quarter, either by choice or compelled-by-license doesn't matter: it's an unsustainable schedule: trying to move forward with too much too fast. It's a speeding train headed for a train wreck; a.k.a.: Mod 6, which makes of a good preview, but it's not the brick wall this speeding bullet train is truly headed for.
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited May 2015
oh sheesh.. this thread is out of control ...
Ive played dozens of mmos, and IVe pve'd and pvp'd in many, and IVE enjoyed every aspect, sometimes I would spend a year basically raiding, get tired of it and spent the next year building up my pvp side.. sometimes did them both at the same time. Without both, I wouldnt play any mmo.. at all.
The <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> comment of (go play a pvp game) is annoying, if there is a pvp type mode, its a pvp game, yes all MMOs have imbalances, I really dont care, unless they are clearly overperforming, Ive always known some classes are just better at pvp, then others, happens in every game, I just enjoy playing them all.
Have I played better pvp games? heck ya, IVE ALSO played way better pve games. I came to neverwinter to drop out of the Raid race, as I cant handle the 3 hours of raiding and 1-2 hours of pre and post raid meetings , check ins ect. Its too much now in my life. Which is why I dont like the direction the game is going, its not about hardness, but when 1 DD can take 1-2 hours in length.. just seems too long to me. Even back in mod 1/2 they didnt take this long. Thats my major complaint now. That and bound RP (3 types) sheesh guys.
The only thing I hope for is that benefits gained through Strongholds only affect Stronghold content. You shouldn't be forced into a guild to get the latest stuff/buffs/boons for PVE and PVP.
Strongholds should be a separate environment for guild wars/play, sort of what GG was supposed to but never provided.
The ridiculous amount of misinformation all based on pathetically pessimistic conjecture is amazing in this thread.
How about, rather than just making-up scenarios based on pure imagination, we actually try to surmise what will happen and how things will work based on actual real existing similar criteria, such as the Fleet Starbases at Star Trek Online and why them? Because STO is created by the same Development Company using the same game engine and both STO and NW share and cross-develop ideas and mechanics all the time. Based on that criteria the following can realistically be surmised:
Player versus Player game play will be instanced events; players must opt-in, not opt-out. These events will likely organized by the players themselves in a 'challenge' like scenario.
Guild Members will contribute resources to the Stronghold in order for the stronghold to build/improve that stronghold. These resources are gathered by the member players through other game events, PvP and even PvE gameplay; such as "Reputation" points and crafting resources/crafting items, etc.
"Wallet-warriors" have nothing to do with it and hence is nothing more than free-to-play-only players dribbling their envious tripe and rhetoric about those who actually spend some entertainment money on the game (which, by the way we all know: allows them to play for free. 'Nuff said.) And I'll wager 95% of these "wallet-warriors" are actually the casual players because the elitists are elitist: they don't need to spend any money to get what they want. Figure it out, people: simple deductive reasoning while leaving out the emotion.
As for all the "balance" and "bugs galore" comments: you aren't telling anyone anything they don't already know. And that problem stems from the ridiculously tight schedule Cryptic is trying to maintain with 'new content' additions every quarter, either by choice or compelled-by-license doesn't matter: it's an unsustainable schedule: trying to move forward with too much too fast. It's a speeding train headed for a train wreck; a.k.a.: Mod 6, which makes of a good preview, but it's not the brick wall this speeding bullet train is truly headed for.
Yea we already know how cheap Cryptic is on actually designing new content, and just recycling old content. I wouldn't doubt if my Stronghold has a Captain's chair as my throne, or a bug where mobs "get beamed" within your walls. Seriously wish you quit pugging STO (another PWE game) like some used-car salesman, into this one. ~LAUGHS HARD~
Yup, its as if we bought what we thought was a home (with our attention, time and for many, money) but instead it was a hotel room, and mod 6 was checkout day.
Come on people, this one isn't hard, it's Cryptic after all. @angrysprite is using STO Starbases as an example because it is made by the same company and the small amount of information we know makes it sound very alike. It makes the most sense to consider that example then these wild and unfounded fantasies of raiding, protection rackets, and open environment, non-consent oriented PvP. The opt-in could be as simple as entering the instance or as invasive as a screen prompt that warps you out of the stronghold if you decline.
Cryptic isn't going to change the basic, underlying framework of the game for some PvP high school gang bang. They just do not have the resources or time.
Hey folks! More information will be coming out soon, but I can clear a few things up about Strongholds at launch.
1) PvP will be consensual and opt-in.
2) There will be both PvP and PvE elements of gameplay. There are facets of your stronghold that will be advanced by PvE and some that will be enhanced by PvP.
Hey folks! More information will be coming out soon, but I can clear a few things up about Strongholds at launch.
1) PvP will be consensual and opt-in.
2) There will be both PvP and PvE elements of gameplay. There are facets of your stronghold that will be advanced by PvE and some that will be enhanced by PvP.
More to come!
Not sure if you meant to word it that way, but currently this makes it sound as if these things might change in future. Since I can't imagine the total removal of either the PvP or PvE side later on that only leaves the bit about PvP being consensual...
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited May 2015
I think you're reading way to much into that. He means that these are the features they plan to have at launch, with the possibility of adding MORE as the game evolves.
I think you're reading way to much into that. He means that these are the features they plan to have at launch, with the possibility of adding MORE as the game evolves.
This. We plan to grow Strongholds in future releases.
Hey folks! More information will be coming out soon, but I can clear a few things up about Strongholds at launch.
1) PvP will be consensual and opt-in.
2) There will be both PvP and PvE elements of gameplay. There are facets of your stronghold that will be advanced by PvE and some that will be enhanced by PvP.
More to come!
Thanks for the information. We really appreciate this so that we dont speculate so much.
twitch.tv/kaligold
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rifter1969Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 516Arc User
Hey folks! More information will be coming out soon, but I can clear a few things up about Strongholds at launch.
1) PvP will be consensual and opt-in.
2) There will be both PvP and PvE elements of gameplay. There are facets of your stronghold that will be advanced by PvE and some that will be enhanced by PvP.
More to come!
Goatshark... thanks for at least giving us a kind of clarification on the whole PvP thing for Strongholds.
As others have posted, I am the leader of a very small guild.
And while this idea does excite me, the thought of larger guilds with players that are more spec'ed out than I or memebers of my guild did frighten me a little.
Thanks again for at least mentioning the PvP aspect.
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torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited May 2015
What I'd love to see would be some sort of "Event Spawning System" where you could chose to activate an event of X size to challenge your stronghold.
Have 20 people online? Great. Start a Major Heroic style event that is designed to challenge a large group of players. Only have 5 people online, or are you part of a smaller guild? Then start an event designed to challenge 5 people (or maybe 10 if you're gutsy) and have that attack the Stronghold.
Or PvP-wise, do the same thing...turn on invasions based on whether your guild is looking for a smaller 5 on 5, 10 on 10 or 20 on 20.
Either way, I think making sure the content is scalable to guilds of all sizes, big and small, and doesn't force people to change their guild habits (unless is voluntary) is really important here.
Also, the ability to just invite non-guild members to hang out in your stronghold, especially for RP reasons, is pretty important, too.
And as far as PvP goes, I'm sure you guys have already considered allowing guilds to build an open PvP arena inside their stronghold, to host custom events, 1v1, or guild PvP practice. Because that would be super sweet.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
Also, the ability to just invite non-guild members to hang out in your stronghold, especially for RP reasons, is pretty important, too.
And as far as PvP goes, I'm sure you guys have already considered allowing guilds to build an open PvP arena inside their stronghold, to host custom events, 1v1, or guild PvP practice. Because that would be super sweet.
Being able to invite non-guildies. Tricky. It means requiring instancing and some way to 'browse' the guild halls. Or the easy route, just having the non-guilded people in the party, which then ports out to the stronghold of whichever party member initiated the map transfer. But still, tricky.
Maybe with a Landing screen/Catalog UI update? To browse guild halls? Will guild halls have a *star ranking? Can I go look at awesome ones?
Hmm.. Maybe the strongholds won't be customizable at all. Everyone gets the same castle, and we 'customize' it by purchasing upgrades. =(
Top Tier castles will just be maxed out. Not much variety in that. But still, it'll be fun to invade a castle. Even if they all look the same. ;D
The 'PVP pit' could be a premade octagon with opvp rules with a battlemaster who will port players inside for 1v1. Once the loser releases, both him and the victor are ported back out.
While we're daydreaming, I'd like the idea of 'Castle' 'assets' to be purchased and accessible for building a stronghold layout, for example:
0 Points - Spawn x3, Vendor
10 Campaign Points - Walls, Oak Door, Moat,
20 Campaign Points - Traps, Iron Door, Turret (Staircase from Ground->2 on one side)
30 Campaign Points - 2nd Floor Wall, Greater Traps, 2nd Floor Turret (Staircase on one side to 3rd level)
40 Campaign Points - 3rd Floor Wall, Major Traps, 3rd Floor Special Room.
50 Campaign Points - PVP arena
Then we could arrange our walls on a 'battleship' type UI, (pegs + holes) (this image took 5 mins and is crud, I'm aware)
When you build 2nd floor stuff, your 1st floor stuff gets a ceiling. A turret has space under it on the 1st floor, and an enclosed defendable area on the 2nd floor. (This image has already spent: 21 walls, 3 doors, a PVP area, and a 1st floor turret, 210+30+50+20=310 'points')
Lots of early doors to stop attackers, etc. ;D We can dream, can't we? ;D
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
edited May 2015
I am reading a LOT of negativity in this thread. Despite a very promising often desired expansion being released soon, people are already shooting it down as something that will suck or be one-sided towards PvP players. How about we enjoy the clip and just wait for the release isntead of judging the book because of the cover.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Comments
+1 on this idea. Anything to progress to the game's demise, is good for me.
That would be great, but only if we might swing down from up high upon yon tree branch to part enemy guild members from their jingling purses of AD!
Yoinks and away!
Okay, Panic.
Oh, great, what I've always been looking for: log in in my spare time to get bullied...
...for the bullies? Or for 400 or so remaining ppl who actually enjoy such _______?
It would be fun to see a full out war between all the big PvP guilds, in a sporty manner!
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
It would probably be a lot like some of the PvP I've seen in IWD.. which is reminiscent of every high school fight I've ever seen... everyone standing around, talking sh*t to each other... lol
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
The ridiculous amount of misinformation all based on pathetically pessimistic conjecture is amazing in this thread.
How about, rather than just making-up scenarios based on pure imagination, we actually try to surmise what will happen and how things will work based on actual real existing similar criteria, such as the Fleet Starbases at Star Trek Online and why them? Because STO is created by the same Development Company using the same game engine and both STO and NW share and cross-develop ideas and mechanics all the time. Based on that criteria the following can realistically be surmised:
Player versus Player game play will be instanced events; players must opt-in, not opt-out. These events will likely organized by the players themselves in a 'challenge' like scenario.
Guild Members will contribute resources to the Stronghold in order for the stronghold to build/improve that stronghold. These resources are gathered by the member players through other game events, PvP and even PvE gameplay; such as "Reputation" points and crafting resources/crafting items, etc.
"Wallet-warriors" have nothing to do with it and hence is nothing more than free-to-play-only players dribbling their envious tripe and rhetoric about those who actually spend some entertainment money on the game (which, by the way we all know: allows them to play for free. 'Nuff said.) And I'll wager 95% of these "wallet-warriors" are actually the casual players because the elitists are elitist: they don't need to spend any money to get what they want. Figure it out, people: simple deductive reasoning while leaving out the emotion.
As for all the "balance" and "bugs galore" comments: you aren't telling anyone anything they don't already know. And that problem stems from the ridiculously tight schedule Cryptic is trying to maintain with 'new content' additions every quarter, either by choice or compelled-by-license doesn't matter: it's an unsustainable schedule: trying to move forward with too much too fast. It's a speeding train headed for a train wreck; a.k.a.: Mod 6, which makes of a good preview, but it's not the brick wall this speeding bullet train is truly headed for.
Ive played dozens of mmos, and IVe pve'd and pvp'd in many, and IVE enjoyed every aspect, sometimes I would spend a year basically raiding, get tired of it and spent the next year building up my pvp side.. sometimes did them both at the same time. Without both, I wouldnt play any mmo.. at all.
The <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> comment of (go play a pvp game) is annoying, if there is a pvp type mode, its a pvp game, yes all MMOs have imbalances, I really dont care, unless they are clearly overperforming, Ive always known some classes are just better at pvp, then others, happens in every game, I just enjoy playing them all.
Have I played better pvp games? heck ya, IVE ALSO played way better pve games. I came to neverwinter to drop out of the Raid race, as I cant handle the 3 hours of raiding and 1-2 hours of pre and post raid meetings , check ins ect. Its too much now in my life. Which is why I dont like the direction the game is going, its not about hardness, but when 1 DD can take 1-2 hours in length.. just seems too long to me. Even back in mod 1/2 they didnt take this long. Thats my major complaint now. That and bound RP (3 types) sheesh guys.
Strongholds should be a separate environment for guild wars/play, sort of what GG was supposed to but never provided.
Yea we already know how cheap Cryptic is on actually designing new content, and just recycling old content. I wouldn't doubt if my Stronghold has a Captain's chair as my throne, or a bug where mobs "get beamed" within your walls. Seriously wish you quit pugging STO (another PWE game) like some used-car salesman, into this one. ~LAUGHS HARD~
Cryptic isn't going to change the basic, underlying framework of the game for some PvP high school gang bang. They just do not have the resources or time.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
1) PvP will be consensual and opt-in.
2) There will be both PvP and PvE elements of gameplay. There are facets of your stronghold that will be advanced by PvE and some that will be enhanced by PvP.
More to come!
Not sure if you meant to word it that way, but currently this makes it sound as if these things might change in future. Since I can't imagine the total removal of either the PvP or PvE side later on that only leaves the bit about PvP being consensual...
This. We plan to grow Strongholds in future releases.
Thanks for the information. We really appreciate this so that we dont speculate so much.
Goatshark... thanks for at least giving us a kind of clarification on the whole PvP thing for Strongholds.
As others have posted, I am the leader of a very small guild.
And while this idea does excite me, the thought of larger guilds with players that are more spec'ed out than I or memebers of my guild did frighten me a little.
Thanks again for at least mentioning the PvP aspect.
Thanks Scott. Please tell me it will be like this! - http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?922731-Mod-7-Neverwinter-Strongholds-!&p=10868301&viewfull=1#post10868301
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
Have 20 people online? Great. Start a Major Heroic style event that is designed to challenge a large group of players. Only have 5 people online, or are you part of a smaller guild? Then start an event designed to challenge 5 people (or maybe 10 if you're gutsy) and have that attack the Stronghold.
Or PvP-wise, do the same thing...turn on invasions based on whether your guild is looking for a smaller 5 on 5, 10 on 10 or 20 on 20.
Either way, I think making sure the content is scalable to guilds of all sizes, big and small, and doesn't force people to change their guild habits (unless is voluntary) is really important here.
Also, the ability to just invite non-guild members to hang out in your stronghold, especially for RP reasons, is pretty important, too.
And as far as PvP goes, I'm sure you guys have already considered allowing guilds to build an open PvP arena inside their stronghold, to host custom events, 1v1, or guild PvP practice. Because that would be super sweet.
Being able to invite non-guildies. Tricky. It means requiring instancing and some way to 'browse' the guild halls. Or the easy route, just having the non-guilded people in the party, which then ports out to the stronghold of whichever party member initiated the map transfer. But still, tricky.
Maybe with a Landing screen/Catalog UI update? To browse guild halls? Will guild halls have a *star ranking? Can I go look at awesome ones?
Hmm.. Maybe the strongholds won't be customizable at all. Everyone gets the same castle, and we 'customize' it by purchasing upgrades. =(
Top Tier castles will just be maxed out. Not much variety in that. But still, it'll be fun to invade a castle. Even if they all look the same. ;D
The 'PVP pit' could be a premade octagon with opvp rules with a battlemaster who will port players inside for 1v1. Once the loser releases, both him and the victor are ported back out.
While we're daydreaming, I'd like the idea of 'Castle' 'assets' to be purchased and accessible for building a stronghold layout, for example:
0 Points - Spawn x3, Vendor
10 Campaign Points - Walls, Oak Door, Moat,
20 Campaign Points - Traps, Iron Door, Turret (Staircase from Ground->2 on one side)
30 Campaign Points - 2nd Floor Wall, Greater Traps, 2nd Floor Turret (Staircase on one side to 3rd level)
40 Campaign Points - 3rd Floor Wall, Major Traps, 3rd Floor Special Room.
50 Campaign Points - PVP arena
Then we could arrange our walls on a 'battleship' type UI, (pegs + holes) (this image took 5 mins and is crud, I'm aware)
When you build 2nd floor stuff, your 1st floor stuff gets a ceiling. A turret has space under it on the 1st floor, and an enclosed defendable area on the 2nd floor. (This image has already spent: 21 walls, 3 doors, a PVP area, and a 1st floor turret, 210+30+50+20=310 'points')
Lots of early doors to stop attackers, etc. ;D We can dream, can't we? ;D
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.