RA when fighting group of mobs on T2 is like pointing one enemy and telling your group:"Ignore the rest for this moment, I want this mob dead". I find it nice. The AP gain is good too.
While the pro's of RA have been well-stated as it goes for Protector specs, I'd like to throw in a Devotion spec point-of-view as well.
Relentless Avenger is simply amazing. I don't slot it all the time, as I don't have to taunt and I'm certainly not the one that initiates combat (I hang back, let tank take agro while I cover him with a Lay on Hands that's ready, or just spam Cure Wounds to make sure the initial contact goes off smoothly). However, as Sprite has stated before, there are times when slotting it improves the party experience ten-fold. One of those situations is the Temple of the Spider boss-fight.
As many have already pointed out, the AP gain on Relentless Avenger is amazing, and constant AP gain + Justice Devotion means Prism has a near 100% uptime. It's hard to beat Prism healing wise. My primary goal in the fight is to keep everyone up and running, and in particular the tank. Any of you who are familiar with the fight know every now and then a spiderling will slip pass add control and could end up biting the tank in the ***. Tank down usually equals a whipe, especially if the timing is particulary bad. Relentless will knock that add away and give other people time to CC it. It also happens that add will try to bite you in the ***. Target a nearby friendly and lunge to safety. Healer down is horrible.
Other situations where it's awesome is the Valindra fight. Besides the obvious - Lunge to caskets, lunge back to Valindra, AP gain - it becomes particulary useful in parties that are less than optimal. You can actually kite around some of the casket spawns quite well, while still healing others via Bond of Virtue and Vow of Emnity, using Relentless. Knocking them over buys precious time.
Also, and this is not an unimportant bonus: You can use it as a dodge. Devotion specs don't have tons of free Temp HP. We don't get much DR from our Sanctuary (and move at slow speed while blocking). Anyone getting targeted by Traven's firebombs will know it's kinda hard to get out of them if you're locked in place (for instance, you just casted Cure Wounds. I really hate the delay between it's casting and you being able to move around again). If there's a teammate outside of the red zone you can Lunge to safety!
Added disclaimer: This is the uses I've found and like. Not telling anyone to slot it. Not telling anyone to remove it. If you find a playstyle you like and works well, go for it. Just keep an open mind. I know we all went OMG SUNBURST OMG ICE STORM in the Tiamat fights - and mostly rightly so - but knockbacks aren't always the Devil. Especially when letting your Protector OP initiate combat. He taunts, gains a nice chunk of AP for that Divine Protector we all love, and gives you time to CC/Kill the mobs while they're knocked over. And on that knockback: T2 mobs have significant CC resist. The knockback is hardly noticeable.
Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
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Don't use RA in dungeons, you screw your party combos.
Ap generation is not an issue if you gear well, have a dc in the party ( no, no, i'm not talking about the fixed ap bug).
Don't use RA in dungeons, you screw your party combos.
Ap generation is not an issue if you gear well, have a dc in the party ( no, no, i'm not talking about the fixed ap bug).
I play a DC and I can tell you first hand (not the bug that has been fixed) but the class feature hastening light does not provide that much AP for the protection paladin to keep divine protector up to save the group when things get really hairy! I am sorry if your rotation gets screwed up! But speaking as both a OP tank and DC healer the encounter saves your *** and that of the party! Gives the healer especially newly geared healers the breathing room to keep the paladin alive to use divine call and sacred oath to hold those mobs so you can melt them down!
Secondly allot of people when they here/read protection paladin think with the mind set of the mechanics for a Guardian Fighter, this needs to change because the mechanics are not the same hell our DR is not is great as that of a GF hands down especially when our Sanctuary is more bugged than that of the guard meter for tanks because our stamina fades allot faster because were also protecting you!
So before you come in here all but hurt about your rotation level up a paladin tank and play it in a T2 dungeon and see if you still think the same way :P
Don't use RA in dungeons, you screw your party combos.
Ap generation is not an issue if you gear well, have a dc in the party ( no, no, i'm not talking about the fixed ap bug).
You should read again all the things angrysprite wrote. I, as a devotion paladin, will never get grouped with a cleric.
People still think all knockback = bad, even with one-shot enemies. This I don't understand.
Well, going to weigh in on this from my view point as a tank. If I were going to choose between the DPS eeking out a few more points or my potential death and party wipe, guess what I am choosing. If you are so worried that you might miss 100 extra points of DPS then I dunno what to tell you. It doesn't take but 2 seconds after a knock for the mobs to run back and above all it prevents a lot of incoming damage and helps survival since it taunts everything struck. This should be a no brainer, but scrapper locking tunnel vision seems to be the majors in this thread.
I play a DC and I can tell you first hand (not the bug that has been fixed) but the class feature hastening light does not provide that much AP for the protection paladin to keep divine protector up to save the group when things get really hairy! I am sorry if your rotation gets screwed up! But speaking as both a OP tank and DC healer the encounter saves your *** and that of the party! Gives the healer especially newly geared healers the breathing room to keep the paladin alive to use divine call and sacred oath to hold those mobs so you can melt them down!
Secondly allot of people when they here/read protection paladin think with the mind set of the mechanics for a Guardian Fighter, this needs to change because the mechanics are not the same hell our DR is not is great as that of a GF hands down especially when our Sanctuary is more bugged than that of the guard meter for tanks because our stamina fades allot faster because were also protecting you!
So before you come in here all but hurt about your rotation level up a paladin tank and play it in a T2 dungeon and see if you still think the same way :P
There's no butthurt, to tank and not screw your team combos, there's no need of RA.
I don't use it.
I don't need it.
My team mates appreciate.
And if your team needs Divine Protector up all the time, then you might wanna change your spec/rotation.
ps: I do eToS legit runs every day on my tankadin.
An interesting little peculiarity I found with this was that, once you've cleared the crowd out from around the targetted enemy, the poor bugger is the only one within the AoE of Divine Judgement.
Okay, it might not be a 'pro' way of doing things, but it's *awesome*, and sometimes that's what matters.
I wonder what the already substantial numbers will look like after they fix the Justice capstone...
I did slot RA for testing and found it not so useful for me in solo, somewhat good in Lair-Bossfights, though. In group play it can be an extremely useful skill, as well as an extremely annoying, even disruptive one - the difference is situational:
Used for Clearing out the - accidentially aggroed bunch around a squishy (or downed Teammate)? That's so iconic Pala "white knight in shining armour"-playstyle that it almost hurts! Same for the use as combat initiator if I'm the tankiest guy in town - ofc it'd be better if that could be communicated before that this is plan A - sometimes difficult across language barriers though...
Used to "assist" your perfectly healthy GWF slicing and dicing some low-end trash? Bad idea. Use on a group of archers? Might be slightly better if they're larding your DC or CW with toothpicks. Might also be not, look out if there's some divine spells coming from above already. Also it'll take you quite a walk to pop these off afterwards. Using it to arrive at a well-bundled-up group a second or three faster, while there's someone else keeping them occupied? Doesn't really go down too well, unless they're in trouble. Oh, and keep your eyes peeled for purple question marks before using it on any group not actively on their way to one or some of your protegés. Using it to rush in to mobs in close proximity to your GF or GWF can also be an inferior idea. Worst Idea of all is to use it to rush back to clear space around someone - and then run away back to the front, before those mobs got back to you...
"Breaking other's rota" is something that'll happen ever again, over and over again - when there's sawing, then there's sawdust. Also, if and when that happens, the other player can also just withhold fire for that moment until they've come to me.
As I'm heavily relying on debuffs I chose to switch it out again for general (solo) gameplay - I want the AoE attacks (DT, TW) and their CD is longer than my PuTerr's effect, so I need two of those. And ofc Smite...
So, on a side note a little question: Does anyone know (or did test) if RA procs WeapEnch debuffs?
Bah I have zero problem with its knockback effect in PvE, kinda like it cause it sometimes buys me the few seconds I need to get stuff of CD, and for aoe purposes doesnt really matter THAT much, they come running back hard taunted straight after it anyway.
For PvP its awesome, our hardest hitting encounter, thats AoE AND a CC attached to it? yes please
Comments
Relentless Avenger is simply amazing. I don't slot it all the time, as I don't have to taunt and I'm certainly not the one that initiates combat (I hang back, let tank take agro while I cover him with a Lay on Hands that's ready, or just spam Cure Wounds to make sure the initial contact goes off smoothly). However, as Sprite has stated before, there are times when slotting it improves the party experience ten-fold. One of those situations is the Temple of the Spider boss-fight.
As many have already pointed out, the AP gain on Relentless Avenger is amazing, and constant AP gain + Justice Devotion means Prism has a near 100% uptime. It's hard to beat Prism healing wise. My primary goal in the fight is to keep everyone up and running, and in particular the tank. Any of you who are familiar with the fight know every now and then a spiderling will slip pass add control and could end up biting the tank in the ***. Tank down usually equals a whipe, especially if the timing is particulary bad. Relentless will knock that add away and give other people time to CC it. It also happens that add will try to bite you in the ***. Target a nearby friendly and lunge to safety. Healer down is horrible.
Other situations where it's awesome is the Valindra fight. Besides the obvious - Lunge to caskets, lunge back to Valindra, AP gain - it becomes particulary useful in parties that are less than optimal. You can actually kite around some of the casket spawns quite well, while still healing others via Bond of Virtue and Vow of Emnity, using Relentless. Knocking them over buys precious time.
Also, and this is not an unimportant bonus: You can use it as a dodge. Devotion specs don't have tons of free Temp HP. We don't get much DR from our Sanctuary (and move at slow speed while blocking). Anyone getting targeted by Traven's firebombs will know it's kinda hard to get out of them if you're locked in place (for instance, you just casted Cure Wounds. I really hate the delay between it's casting and you being able to move around again). If there's a teammate outside of the red zone you can Lunge to safety!
Added disclaimer: This is the uses I've found and like. Not telling anyone to slot it. Not telling anyone to remove it. If you find a playstyle you like and works well, go for it. Just keep an open mind. I know we all went OMG SUNBURST OMG ICE STORM in the Tiamat fights - and mostly rightly so - but knockbacks aren't always the Devil. Especially when letting your Protector OP initiate combat. He taunts, gains a nice chunk of AP for that Divine Protector we all love, and gives you time to CC/Kill the mobs while they're knocked over. And on that knockback: T2 mobs have significant CC resist. The knockback is hardly noticeable.
Ap generation is not an issue if you gear well, have a dc in the party ( no, no, i'm not talking about the fixed ap bug).
I play a DC and I can tell you first hand (not the bug that has been fixed) but the class feature hastening light does not provide that much AP for the protection paladin to keep divine protector up to save the group when things get really hairy! I am sorry if your rotation gets screwed up! But speaking as both a OP tank and DC healer the encounter saves your *** and that of the party! Gives the healer especially newly geared healers the breathing room to keep the paladin alive to use divine call and sacred oath to hold those mobs so you can melt them down!
Secondly allot of people when they here/read protection paladin think with the mind set of the mechanics for a Guardian Fighter, this needs to change because the mechanics are not the same hell our DR is not is great as that of a GF hands down especially when our Sanctuary is more bugged than that of the guard meter for tanks because our stamina fades allot faster because were also protecting you!
So before you come in here all but hurt about your rotation level up a paladin tank and play it in a T2 dungeon and see if you still think the same way :P
You should read again all the things angrysprite wrote. I, as a devotion paladin, will never get grouped with a cleric.
People still think all knockback = bad, even with one-shot enemies. This I don't understand.
There's no butthurt, to tank and not screw your team combos, there's no need of RA.
I don't use it.
I don't need it.
My team mates appreciate.
And if your team needs Divine Protector up all the time, then you might wanna change your spec/rotation.
ps: I do eToS legit runs every day on my tankadin.
Okay, it might not be a 'pro' way of doing things, but it's *awesome*, and sometimes that's what matters.
I wonder what the already substantial numbers will look like after they fix the Justice capstone...
I did slot RA for testing and found it not so useful for me in solo, somewhat good in Lair-Bossfights, though. In group play it can be an extremely useful skill, as well as an extremely annoying, even disruptive one - the difference is situational:
Used for Clearing out the - accidentially aggroed bunch around a squishy (or downed Teammate)? That's so iconic Pala "white knight in shining armour"-playstyle that it almost hurts! Same for the use as combat initiator if I'm the tankiest guy in town - ofc it'd be better if that could be communicated before that this is plan A - sometimes difficult across language barriers though...
Used to "assist" your perfectly healthy GWF slicing and dicing some low-end trash? Bad idea. Use on a group of archers? Might be slightly better if they're larding your DC or CW with toothpicks. Might also be not, look out if there's some divine spells coming from above already. Also it'll take you quite a walk to pop these off afterwards. Using it to arrive at a well-bundled-up group a second or three faster, while there's someone else keeping them occupied? Doesn't really go down too well, unless they're in trouble. Oh, and keep your eyes peeled for purple question marks before using it on any group not actively on their way to one or some of your protegés. Using it to rush in to mobs in close proximity to your GF or GWF can also be an inferior idea. Worst Idea of all is to use it to rush back to clear space around someone - and then run away back to the front, before those mobs got back to you...
"Breaking other's rota" is something that'll happen ever again, over and over again - when there's sawing, then there's sawdust. Also, if and when that happens, the other player can also just withhold fire for that moment until they've come to me.
As I'm heavily relying on debuffs I chose to switch it out again for general (solo) gameplay - I want the AoE attacks (DT, TW) and their CD is longer than my PuTerr's effect, so I need two of those. And ofc Smite...
So, on a side note a little question: Does anyone know (or did test) if RA procs WeapEnch debuffs?
For PvP its awesome, our hardest hitting encounter, thats AoE AND a CC attached to it? yes please