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Relentless Avenger knockback effect
quspiv
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
It's counter-productive for tanking. Why would i want to knock the mobs in random directions? so my party memeber cannot CC them or dps them? When i play TR and use smoke bomb to help my team there's always some smart *** that uses aoe knockback.
Get rid of worthless knockback and add "sucks in" mechanic with 3s root duration and +1s for each rank.
Get rid of worthless knockback and add "sucks in" mechanic with 3s root duration and +1s for each rank.
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NO.
Besides: you're a Trickster Rogue, not a tank so you don't get to have a say in what tanks do. (Read my signature for your own edification.)
For everyone else: Please indulge me as I explain this most powerful and useful utility at the Paladin's disposal - and I'll explain this for people who are NOT playing a Paladin as well as for those Paladins not using it right:
First of all: people playing Paladin need to understand that Relentless Avenger rerquires a bit of critical thinking and tactics; it is a situational tool:
PROTECTION PALADIN: Relentless Avenger scatters a group of mobs except the main target - all scattered mobs are then taunted and forced to attack the Paladin. As the MAIN TANK a Protection Paladin will use this to scatter/damage a mob group - the scattered group will return to the Paladin, since he is primarily a single-target fighter this helps him to kill off mobs and not suffer so much Combat Advantage against him. "Breathing room" as it were. When queued in a party you are supposed to get EITHER a Protection Paladin OR a Guardian Fighter, not both.
GWF: You're supposed to be the off-tank clearing the mobs that are attacking your squishies: DC/CW/SW and so on.
DEVOTION PALADIN: Relentless Avenger is your tool for saving the butts of squishies: TR/CW/SW and so on - rather than just targeting a mob and spreading them all over the place, you should be targeting the TR/CW/SW who are being ganged-up upon and forced to kite that mob. You target the other player directly, the mob is dispersed off of them and you provide a heal to them - now instead of running around like a headless chicken they can actually do their jobs.
When queued in a party you are supposed to get EITHER a Devotion Paladin OR a Devoted Cleric, not both.
Devotion Paladins: You need to watch-out for Protection-OP/GF/GWF: They are the tank/off-tank with taunt or AoE at-wills; they need minions grouped near them - do NOT scatter their targets.
So: Paladins: use Relentless Avenger *properly*: Either as a tank to do damage and scatter/taunt the mob allowing you to handle one at a time more efficiently while avoiding combat advantage against you (because the TR isn't going to protect your butt ~cough~), OR as a leader to protect your squishies efficiently with healing so they can do their jobs and not be forced to kite around not doing anything but run.
Paladins: understand your class. Everyone else: deal with it.
Amen. It is one of the best tool to stay alive in the t2
The problem is that people make the mistake of trying to strike first when the only one who can start the fight is the tank.
I've lvl70 Paladin and this ability is only used to troll other people. Since we got limited amount of encounters nobody EXCEPT TROLLS will use this stupid ability. In Dungeons you gonna use mostly Templar, Binding Oath and Circle of Power or Bane. Sometimes you might want to use Banisment or VoE when your group overgear the content.
There's not a single reason to replace any of the above with RA, unless you want to troll.
The only use for RA would be in PvP. To knock ppl off node and debuffing their damage against team mates. That's pretty much it.
I do not believe you are playing a Paladin based on the "stupid trolls" comment. If you are actually playing a Paladin then you don't have a clue how to play your class. You are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
If you play a Paladin then you already know that Radiant Strike is weak and the distance-to-encounter is ridiculously small as you must be within 10' of the mob and there is no knock-back, which is the primary utility of RA. RS is a joke in comparison. Relentless Avenger is far more useful and powerful tool. Either way, if you do play a Paladin then be thankful there are a lot of great encounter powers to choose from. Just because you don't like one of them hardly means it's "useless". If you feel it is "useless" then is it "useless" for you. Never be foolish enough to attempt speaking for me.
As for your "only useful in PvP" statement: speaks volumes about your understanding of the class and game mechanics in general.
Based on your statement: you don't play this class very well at all or possibly not at all. AP is among the least reasons to slot this encounter power. But if you do play it and this is your reason for slotting this encounter: so be it. You are part of the problem, not the solution.
It's the "don't damage you" part of your statement that carries the most weight with regard to reason for slotting this encounter.
*****
Threads like this and seem to outweigh the thoughtfully-constructed replies for or against any of the ideas presented. This, unfortunately, is the status quo of most forums including this this one.
Before you complain you should try to learn to adapt to a situation.
Riight. I didn't say I didn't like it, I said it's USELESS and there are a lot of better encounters to use instead. You can write a book about "100 ways to use relentless avenger" but there will still be better encounters for any PvE situation.
Also, you're saying you need to be within 10' of the mob to use RS? It's 20', dude. And it also does AoE damage around the target, which, by the way, has no target limit. So get that reality check, dude.
If you're so in love with RA that you don't see its flaws and other encounters then well, there's nothing to talk about with you.
As for my, "only useful in PvP" statement, I know what I'm talking about. Read the ****ing descriptions.
LOL! Okay "dude". We can agree to disagree: you play it your way and I'll play it my way and we'll both be happy.
I'm not saying it's any better than anything else, but it's not worse. My 'argument" is against the OP's argument that the knock-back is a bad thing. I am explaining simply that if a Paladin uses the encounter then there is a right way and a wrong way. That's all. If you take things too personally then it's a personal issue; not my problem.
I'll go stand with the grown-ups now.
Update: where the reply to this post makes my point and allows me to rest my case. ~laughs~
We got 3 encounter slots and good paladins will never use RA when there are so much better options.
Better options? Well then tell me what others CC have the paladin there. Because we have only 2, and one left the mobs untouchable for 20 secs.
RA is great as CC, flying mobs dont hit my face. I will use RA on a single fight? no. anyone breaking CW's CC with RA is a fool? yes. RA have is uses on tanking? yes.
Cuz RA have the best AP gain .
In t1 you dont need Divine Protector but in t2 you & your PT wear it as a second skin .
The worst thing is Divine Protector is "a" daly power and to fill it up in time y need to slot RA.
If you dont do it you will fall and if y fall your pt will wipe.
There is no room for mistakes in t2 LEGIT.
If you pick Paladin for CC you're doing it wrong. 1s of mobs flying every 11s makes no difference to survivality. Leave CC for classes which were made with such purpose. For trash i use templar, BO and CoP. You get a lot better survivality than with RA and on top of that mobs stick near you which makes it easier for your team to CC and dps. (the faster they die the less dmg you will take) For fights without lots of adds i sometimes repalce CoP with CT and / or BO with Bane.
My encounters are Burning Light/RA/Templars. Ill open with charging my Burning Light and then jump in with the RA followed with the TW.
Why im doing this is pretty simple. First ill knock back and taunt all enemies. When they come back they're blinded and and i dont get hit. Then the CC classes come in and controll them. Voila. Pretty easy gameplay.
So RA is the best opening encounter for a succesfull group clearing in T2s
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
^^ pretty much this!
We've had this argument for a LONG time with Ice Storm and it's no different with RA. Stop using it, Paladins are not DPS, they are either tank or healing.
Dev's RA does not belong in the past 60 tier. It belongs around level 20ish. It's great for a solo'ing paladin that indeed, needs to prevent CA as much as possible. I would move Absolution to post-60 and maybe move everything from Bond of virtue up a tier.
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
Your wrong my friend I like many use it for the opener becauce mobs one hit and most healers don't have the reaction time and then BAM the whole group is dead and the mobs don't have there attention on the tank! also it gives you most of your action points so with out those action points you can't use devin protecter on the group!
I'd rather have 5% damage reduction then a small gap lunge and 5% more damage as you said were not DPS but we don't have the taunt ability of the GF iether! RA saves you on your devine call and binding oath is great to keep mobs on you but not as an opener with the amount of damage you take from regular mobs in a dungeon.
Figured I'd take a moment to chime in here on Relentless Avenger...
I've used it quite often, and I'm super content with it. Particularly as an initiation of combat for a number of reasons, but best said here:
Now I support this opinion, and those others who support it as a solid Oathbound Paladin Encounter.
I've been having good results by starting off with Relentless Avenger, then following it up by using Banishment on some of the knocked back bad guys as the rest of my party handles a different section of the pull.
That being said it should be explained to your party if/when you use it, because at the end of the day communication is what carries a team. :cool:
I rotate Binding Oath, Bane, and RA in my first slot according to the group I'm with and the dungeon area. The easiest power of the 3 to use is Bane, it works, it doesn't mess with other players and it doesn't kill you. Binding Oath is great until it comes off cool down and one shots you (hilarious but not helpful).
RA is good for chasing things with teleport or big knock backs. RA is good for creating breathing room around a CC immune high dps target. RA is good for creating breathing room to res a fallen ally. RA is good for getting agro before some fool striker does a ranged attack. RA is good for bailing out a dps class that's pulled agro and is now kiting not killing.
In short RA is quite useful and used right helps the party. Just spamming it every chance you get isn't the way to achieve that though.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Though in boss fights like lostmauth and valindra I'd still take bane over it I think.