Looks like it's not top priority but TR class requires further balance for sure as they have way too much survivability with too many tools to combine together considering it's supposed to be a striker class. Kill/Death ratios in leaderboard might not be a sure way to determine what is unbalanced and what is not, but still, TRs are the only ones, even at premade level, that can go up to certain k/D ratios and have the lowest number of deaths. Which means, they are the most survivable class, which is just wrong.
What about them cowardly GWF that run away when they get low health (you know the ones I mean -- every damned one of them). GWF need a 2 second snare on their sprint -- hmm actually some GWF would like that I think as sprint is problematic in other ways.
As much as i do not like these kind of arguments, i think the reasoning behind the "coward tactics" argument is not how a player decides to disengage (GWFs sprint away but can still be DPSed down by CWs while doing it, or get intercepted by other incoming enemies who see them. Sprint is CC immunity but does not do much on incoming damage, TRs dodge roll immune spam and then disappear is much safer), but how the typical fight goes.
GWFs take all the damage head on and unstoppable can be, and is 99% of the time, debuffed a ton.
TRs tactic, on the more popular PvP builds, is stealth-attack-immunity-dodge roll spam-stealth-repeat.
What frustrates, and is imho OP, about TRs mechanic, is the combo of tools that allow the TR to fully avoid damage unless the enemy player is able to outplay the rogue, which means you either outplay the TR (predicting his movements) or you lose.
Playing current GWF requires skills, there's no doubt about it. Unless you think that timing a delayed sprint to avoid CC, taking damage head on with a not-so-tanky build (unless you're rich and use TNegation), building damage buffs over damage buffs while avoiding CC and then, in the small time period when all your buffs are active, flawlessly timing and aiming skillshot encounters to land your full damage vs dodging enemies, is a brainless gameplay style.
...
As much as i do not like these kind of arguments, i think the reasoning behind the "coward tactics" argument is not how a player decides to disengage (GWFs sprint away but can still be DPSed down by CWs while doing it, or get intercepted by other incoming enemies who see them. Sprint is CC immunity but does not do much on incoming damage, TRs dodge roll immune spam and then disappear is much safer), but how the typical fight goes.
...
I don't actually think this, I was simply using this to throw back at that certain GWF who every second or third post has to make some comment about cowardly TR. Yet every single time he is in any trouble he will sprint away as fast as he can. I figure a good player should use all the tools in his box as best as they are able to.
Looks like it's not top priority but TR class requires further balance for sure as they have way too much survivability with too many tools to combine together considering it's supposed to be a striker class. Kill/Death ratios in leaderboard might not be a sure way to determine what is unbalanced and what is not, but still, TRs are the only ones, even at premade level, that can go up to certain k/D ratios and have the lowest number of deaths. Which means, they are the most survivable class, which is just wrong.
But it's ok if CW, a controller class, can match that, right? Pull your head out of your ***.
All of this "TR Survivability" boils down to three letters: I. T. C.
I went for Deflection on my TR. Ironically, I have less Deflect than a HR. I wonder why that is? Oh right, I'm a WK. You know, the other paragon path that always gets the **** end of the stick whenever TR gets nerfed? And, we don't have ITC. So, once again, getting **** on.
Meanwhile, people are complaining about Dodge Rolls. ****ing dodge rolls. I don't know how pathetic you have to be to whine over a class' ability to dodge but somehow you people pull it off pretty well.
tl;dr: The problem you're all whining about is ITC.
As much as i do not like these kind of arguments, i think the reasoning behind the "coward tactics" argument is not how a player decides to disengage (GWFs sprint away but can still be DPSed down by CWs while doing it, or get intercepted by other incoming enemies who see them. Sprint is CC immunity but does not do much on incoming damage, TRs dodge roll immune spam and then disappear is much safer), but how the typical fight goes.
What's the difference between:
TR spams dodge then restealths
and
CW spams dodge and drops you in 1 rotation
?
The answer: Stealth.
Your entire problem is stealth. I wonder, were you whining in Mod 4 when TR was nothing more than a paperweight for nodes in Dom? When TRs getting kills were a somewhat rare sight and our only job was to sit on point and perma-camp it?
I guess it's ok if you get dropped in 2 skills as long as you can see who did it, right? Because counter-playing is hard. Learning how to counter stealth is also hard. Every class has a targetless AoE that can push a TR out of stealth but you'd rather play every Dom match with the same loadout and cry on the forums when something doesn't work, right?
GWFs take all the damage head on and unstoppable can be, and is 99% of the time, debuffed a ton.
TRs tactic, on the more popular PvP builds, is stealth-attack-immunity-dodge roll spam-stealth-repeat.
Correction:
GWF with Avalanche, Negation, and 3k iLvl 1v3's on Node 2 all day and wins.
TR with 3k iLvl camps a home point and slaughters whichever poor soul decides to show up, unless whoever shows up knows how to counter-play (Protip: It's not pando83).
What frustrates, and is imho OP, about TRs mechanic, is the combo of tools that allow the TR to fully avoid damage unless the enemy player is able to outplay the rogue, which means you either outplay the TR (predicting his movements) or you lose.
Wow, it's almost like you need to know how to play the game in order to play it. Mind blowing!
It's like you have to time your CC between immunity frames. Or tag the TR with a lingering effect to see where he's running. Or, gasp, use your ****ing brain!
Playing current GWF requires skills, there's no doubt about it. Unless you think that timing a delayed sprint to avoid CC, taking damage head on with a not-so-tanky build (unless you're rich and use TNegation), building damage buffs over damage buffs while avoiding CC and then, in the small time period when all your buffs are active, flawlessly timing and aiming skillshot encounters to land your full damage vs dodging enemies, is a brainless gameplay style.
You see, here's the problem.
I play HR, TR, and SW in PvP. I see a lot of good GWFs. The kind who sit on a point, destroy everything on it, and move on to the next point.
The problem is, they aren't whining on the forums. You are.
See the correlation? All you do is whine about TR on the forums. If you invested even half that much effort into not being complete garbage, maybe I'd see you in game and actually consider you a threat.
But right now, I don't see you in game. And you're not a threat.
Erm, my dear Hipster Rogue friends... I see perma stealth in PvP on a daily basis. Where or in which way was stealth nerfed? It seems stronger than ever, to be honest.
So please, for your own sake... try to tell the truth for once. People are already making fun of you guys.
Erm, my dear casuals who run into PvP with <2k iLvl, stealth was nerfed. We've stated how several times. We've also stated the various components that amounted to the nerf.
Also, TRs aren't running around 1-shotting anyone unless they have no gear. If you got 1-shotted by a TR, press C, look at your stats, and figure out what you're doing wrong.
Oh, and don't queue for PvP again. Ever.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
It's funny how many people call others bad on the forums while they are equally as bad and uninformed. TR with lurkers (which is actually THE problem) can stealth for a very long time. Also, certain builds can kill my HR (well over 4k ilvl, mythics, r10+ etc.) with about 10 cos, while being stealthed. In case they get caught, well, itc+negation and the boons do the work.
[QUOTE=mjytresz;109268 Lots of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> nonsence [/QUOTE]
Yet another post from a Tr telling a Gwf l2p in lenght.
100% crit with piercing with scaling at wills + enounters that ignores defence and you still tell the gwfs that get shredded by Trs they are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> players,
You know what you have a Hr Sw also why dont you take them to Iwd and I personally will show you why Hr will loose to GWF and i bring a friend TR to shread you on both Sw and Hr until you cry for mercy or just in your casse prolly run away and logg off.
At the moment TR damage is fine
the real problem is a good played TR can perform stealth mode or itc mode or dazed opponent with smoke bomb or in dodge roll time frame or out of range attack all the time in pvp
and when TR really want to run if you are not TR or gwf that got full movement build there is no change to catch them
there must be some point of time frame that other class can countered
2s reveal or nerf roll or nerf itc or reduce movespeed while stealth pick one of these and implement it and TR are good to go
Comments
Looks like it's not top priority but TR class requires further balance for sure as they have way too much survivability with too many tools to combine together considering it's supposed to be a striker class. Kill/Death ratios in leaderboard might not be a sure way to determine what is unbalanced and what is not, but still, TRs are the only ones, even at premade level, that can go up to certain k/D ratios and have the lowest number of deaths. Which means, they are the most survivable class, which is just wrong.
As much as i do not like these kind of arguments, i think the reasoning behind the "coward tactics" argument is not how a player decides to disengage (GWFs sprint away but can still be DPSed down by CWs while doing it, or get intercepted by other incoming enemies who see them. Sprint is CC immunity but does not do much on incoming damage, TRs dodge roll immune spam and then disappear is much safer), but how the typical fight goes.
GWFs take all the damage head on and unstoppable can be, and is 99% of the time, debuffed a ton.
TRs tactic, on the more popular PvP builds, is stealth-attack-immunity-dodge roll spam-stealth-repeat.
What frustrates, and is imho OP, about TRs mechanic, is the combo of tools that allow the TR to fully avoid damage unless the enemy player is able to outplay the rogue, which means you either outplay the TR (predicting his movements) or you lose.
Playing current GWF requires skills, there's no doubt about it. Unless you think that timing a delayed sprint to avoid CC, taking damage head on with a not-so-tanky build (unless you're rich and use TNegation), building damage buffs over damage buffs while avoiding CC and then, in the small time period when all your buffs are active, flawlessly timing and aiming skillshot encounters to land your full damage vs dodging enemies, is a brainless gameplay style.
I don't actually think this, I was simply using this to throw back at that certain GWF who every second or third post has to make some comment about cowardly TR. Yet every single time he is in any trouble he will sprint away as fast as he can. I figure a good player should use all the tools in his box as best as they are able to.
But it's ok if CW, a controller class, can match that, right? Pull your head out of your ***.
All of this "TR Survivability" boils down to three letters: I. T. C.
I went for Deflection on my TR. Ironically, I have less Deflect than a HR. I wonder why that is? Oh right, I'm a WK. You know, the other paragon path that always gets the **** end of the stick whenever TR gets nerfed? And, we don't have ITC. So, once again, getting **** on.
Meanwhile, people are complaining about Dodge Rolls. ****ing dodge rolls. I don't know how pathetic you have to be to whine over a class' ability to dodge but somehow you people pull it off pretty well.
tl;dr: The problem you're all whining about is ITC.
What's the difference between:
TR spams dodge then restealths
and
CW spams dodge and drops you in 1 rotation
?
The answer: Stealth.
Your entire problem is stealth. I wonder, were you whining in Mod 4 when TR was nothing more than a paperweight for nodes in Dom? When TRs getting kills were a somewhat rare sight and our only job was to sit on point and perma-camp it?
I guess it's ok if you get dropped in 2 skills as long as you can see who did it, right? Because counter-playing is hard. Learning how to counter stealth is also hard. Every class has a targetless AoE that can push a TR out of stealth but you'd rather play every Dom match with the same loadout and cry on the forums when something doesn't work, right?
Correction:
GWF with Avalanche, Negation, and 3k iLvl 1v3's on Node 2 all day and wins.
TR with 3k iLvl camps a home point and slaughters whichever poor soul decides to show up, unless whoever shows up knows how to counter-play (Protip: It's not pando83).
Wow, it's almost like you need to know how to play the game in order to play it. Mind blowing!
It's like you have to time your CC between immunity frames. Or tag the TR with a lingering effect to see where he's running. Or, gasp, use your ****ing brain!
You see, here's the problem.
I play HR, TR, and SW in PvP. I see a lot of good GWFs. The kind who sit on a point, destroy everything on it, and move on to the next point.
The problem is, they aren't whining on the forums. You are.
See the correlation? All you do is whine about TR on the forums. If you invested even half that much effort into not being complete garbage, maybe I'd see you in game and actually consider you a threat.
But right now, I don't see you in game. And you're not a threat.
You're bad.
Erm, my dear casuals who run into PvP with <2k iLvl, stealth was nerfed. We've stated how several times. We've also stated the various components that amounted to the nerf.
Also, TRs aren't running around 1-shotting anyone unless they have no gear. If you got 1-shotted by a TR, press C, look at your stats, and figure out what you're doing wrong.
Oh, and don't queue for PvP again. Ever.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Yet another post from a Tr telling a Gwf l2p in lenght.
100% crit with piercing with scaling at wills + enounters that ignores defence and you still tell the gwfs that get shredded by Trs they are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> players,
You know what you have a Hr Sw also why dont you take them to Iwd and I personally will show you why Hr will loose to GWF and i bring a friend TR to shread you on both Sw and Hr until you cry for mercy or just in your casse prolly run away and logg off.
the real problem is a good played TR can perform stealth mode or itc mode or dazed opponent with smoke bomb or in dodge roll time frame or out of range attack all the time in pvp
and when TR really want to run if you are not TR or gwf that got full movement build there is no change to catch them
there must be some point of time frame that other class can countered
2s reveal or nerf roll or nerf itc or reduce movespeed while stealth pick one of these and implement it and TR are good to go