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How to fix the vote kick in 3 steps
mouern
Member Posts: 25 Arc User
This has become a huge problem I've seen arising in numerous threads now. "Fix the kick player", "I keep getting kicked for being a certain class", "Kick them because we don't have 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps" and so on and so forth. This "kick player" problem can be SO easily solved with a few steps.
1. Roll Check: this is one of the oldest MMORPG mechanism of a dungeon/raid finder. You have to fill 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 dps slots NO MATTER WHAT or the roll check will NOT go through. Yes sometimes we get people who can't pull their weight, D/C, or are AFK. These are matters the next point addresses.
2. Kick Group timer: in other MMORPGS (I hate saying it but dangit they do it right) such as World of Warcraft... there is a kick timer. Once joining the group completion of a certain amount of dungeon or raid/dungeon or raid time must be complete before a vote kick can be instituted. Also, once a vote kick is in play and it is NOT passed, the vote kick timer begins I believe at about 15 minutes (someone double check me on that). Thus, if your group is just full of, well, knuckleheads trying to be trolls, this prevents them from doing it. Finally, please place a name with the person instituting the vote kick. If you notice everyone is pulling their weight and someone feels like trolling everyone and everyone else SEES this person instituting a vote kick every second possible... obviously it is time for SOMEONE to hit the road.
3. 3/5 Kick Rule: I've seen several people state that it only takes 2/5 of a group to kick someone. IF THIS IS TRUE (which I have not seen this before in an MMORPG), did we ever hear of the concept "majority rules"? If this is true PLEASE correct it to a 3/5 ruling of kick as to prevent two "friends" from being trolls and kicking people left and right because their PUG daily dungeon/skirmish group isn't up to satisfactory levels.
EDIT: Point 3.5. Combat Rule: I've seen several ideas and I'm trying to summarize it into one small half point here so hear me out. During combat kicks should NOT be allowed along with kick initiations during boss fights (thus combat) or after the completion of a dungeon (during the boss item roll).
I love hearing responses so please let me hear what you guys think! Lets get this stuff into the next patch update!
Also, on a minor note does anyone have any EXACT date as to when patch 1.1 drops? Thanks everyone!
1. Roll Check: this is one of the oldest MMORPG mechanism of a dungeon/raid finder. You have to fill 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 dps slots NO MATTER WHAT or the roll check will NOT go through. Yes sometimes we get people who can't pull their weight, D/C, or are AFK. These are matters the next point addresses.
2. Kick Group timer: in other MMORPGS (I hate saying it but dangit they do it right) such as World of Warcraft... there is a kick timer. Once joining the group completion of a certain amount of dungeon or raid/dungeon or raid time must be complete before a vote kick can be instituted. Also, once a vote kick is in play and it is NOT passed, the vote kick timer begins I believe at about 15 minutes (someone double check me on that). Thus, if your group is just full of, well, knuckleheads trying to be trolls, this prevents them from doing it. Finally, please place a name with the person instituting the vote kick. If you notice everyone is pulling their weight and someone feels like trolling everyone and everyone else SEES this person instituting a vote kick every second possible... obviously it is time for SOMEONE to hit the road.
3. 3/5 Kick Rule: I've seen several people state that it only takes 2/5 of a group to kick someone. IF THIS IS TRUE (which I have not seen this before in an MMORPG), did we ever hear of the concept "majority rules"? If this is true PLEASE correct it to a 3/5 ruling of kick as to prevent two "friends" from being trolls and kicking people left and right because their PUG daily dungeon/skirmish group isn't up to satisfactory levels.
EDIT: Point 3.5. Combat Rule: I've seen several ideas and I'm trying to summarize it into one small half point here so hear me out. During combat kicks should NOT be allowed along with kick initiations during boss fights (thus combat) or after the completion of a dungeon (during the boss item roll).
I love hearing responses so please let me hear what you guys think! Lets get this stuff into the next patch update!
Also, on a minor note does anyone have any EXACT date as to when patch 1.1 drops? Thanks everyone!
Post edited by mouern on
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Step one go to your friends section, change to recent players.
Step two click on the last recent players (should say last met 1-50 mins ago)
Step three block those players.
Step four report those player for unsporting behaviour.
Step five get a warm feeling that you have done a little part into getting those people a reduced reputation.
Step seven, enjoy playing any dungeon or skirmish without the possibility of getting kicked
(Just three people can block any kick attempts...)
Hell I was carrying that group too.
Edit.
Also they should make the loot level blue and above for level 60 dungeons. I kind of understand, who wants to see that spam?
Would be nice to help ensure you never spend anymore time with the likes of those people again aswell as help keep them away from other players, would be justice if they only ever get matched to people such as themselves.
I also second the notion of the person who got kicked being notified who initiated it in the first place. Will there be retaliation? Of course. Some people can't handle the consequences of their bad behavior. But mostly it will institute accountability and ownership. All the keyboard warriors might have to pause and give thought to their actions ahead of time.
For the people saying "herp derp, find a guild, find friends". Get over yourselves. The queue system was implemented for a reason - matchmaking. Putting the onus on the person being kicked is like telling someone if they don't want to get robbed, don't own anything, don't go outside, get 6+ locks, do get an alarm system, and a guard dog, and an electrical fence etc. At what point does the person initiating the bad behavior get pegged as the person with the bad behavior.
There's a point here, but I would say just scrap the whole kick system and run on a matchmaking system where everyone has the same general area of gearscore. That way people can't just kick on the reason of assuming they're a weaker person. Obviously if the people go in a group then average them with any gearscore between lowest and highest. Or work on 2 choices of queues, one queue being that there's no kicking at all and the second queue can kick BUT on a setlist which proposes a challenge on the kick.
Example could be if they're kicking for AFK they have to stay within a decent amount of yards as the group for a set amount of time. So many things you could do to replace or improve the current system.
They might consider the problem, but it would take time for them to modify their matchmaking system just for the xbox, so sadly i'm afraid by this time the game will lose alot of players, and eventually fall apart, just because of the maturity of a bunch of console players.
The easiest solutions would be :
1- to "fix" the queue by looking for the class needed only, exemple if a gf is missing it should search for a gf only, and then the 3 dps random classes searched
2- if peoples want to kick yea ok, but allow one kick every 5 or 10 mins.
1 might be hard to do as it require them to change their matchmaking system a bit, but 2 is just a timer to add, i assume this could be done easily.
Anyways this game is great but not made for a console, just like every upcoming mmorpgs... mmorpgs = pc, cant change that sadly.
1) You cannot kick other players while in combat
2) You cannot kick other players after the final boss has been defeated
That would at least prevent most griefing or "kicking at boss boxes" that I've been encountering lately (where the smaller group of friends guarantee final boss loot for themselves that's non-chest)
twitch.tv/xx_alucard
Suggestions:
- The match making needs to be much more intelligent.
Run the assumption that there will only be 1 tank within 1 party. This kinda limits party setups, but its worth it in the long run. Lets face it, unless you're friends, there won't be 2 GF's in an epic run
- Show a list of active instances looking for members with their class setup. If someone gets kicked due to class type, then that'd be their own fault.
- The most basic, and somewhat funny, when someone gets kicked... don't let them rejoin the **** group. (That seems like a bug tbh)
More than welcome to correct me if I'm wrong here, but most of us use the Queue. Fixing the basic mechanics behind this would fix almost all problems.
Side thought: The kicking wouldn't be entirely too bad if the connection problems were fixed. Having to reconnect because "Lost connection to GameServer" is an extreme waste of time. When awaiting a Queue, I spend half of the time getting kicked and the other reconnecting to game server from zoning. --- don't hijack this thread with connection complaining lol. ***I don't know if they scaled their servers a bit, but it does seem a little better over the past week regarding d/c's***
I really like these ideas and yes I have seen a drop in D/C i believe they've been working on their updates on server connection. Also reading the 1.1 patch notes you'll find that they're adding in more connectivity solutions for us!
That my dear friend is the nature of the beast. What we as a community are attempting to limit is those who are just trolling and attempting to kick people left and right because they enjoy others time to be wasted. How many times will your instance happen as compared to a troll kicking you because he just doesn't like your gameplay ALTHOUGH you're on the top of dps or heals or whatever? See the point. It isn't to create another problem, but to limit the LARGEST one and cut the problems down. The loss of one for the loss of many my friend but i DO see your point.
1. Two of the same class. One votes to kick so they don't share loot.
2. Kick after boss is defeated: Again, to not share loot.
What I'd love to see implemented:
1. Grouping by class option so you will get a Cleric/Tank if you start the dungeon. Personally I've played with Two clerics, two TRs and a scourge warlock without issue... but those were the Tier 1 dungeons.
2. Show who voted. If you are going to kick someone then take responsibility for it.
3. Kick choices - selectable and shown to person. they need to have a more uniformed way of showing the reason and giving feedback.
4. Tracking kickers. I know this is an iffy one, but if you have someone who constantly griefs others either because they want the loot or don't want the competition, it's worth revisiting for putting a limit on this.
5. Cannot kick after certain point. Once you get to the boss fight the option to kick should be removed. It should have been like this from the start.
6. Majority vote includes all. My boyfriend was booted from a game with two other friends. One friend voted and the other was engaged in battle and wasnt able to in time. If the team doesn't all agree it should be failed.
1. Gearscore doesn't mean squat. You shouldn't be in a T2 dungeon wearing half blue or any greens. Should require at least T1 gear.
2. Severely underpowered DPS. Too many players have mixed trash starts using draconics and cheap trash to boost gearscore to BARELY meet dungeon requirements.
3. Fail groups. If you can not complete a dungeon due to a trash group, your lobby should be fair game to take over and replace with a passing group.
4. Free rides. This is a big one. If you die and have near nothing to do with a boss fight, you don't deserve the boss loot. I don't give free rides, I WILL kick freeloaders.
Also players joining MID boss battle who can't get into the fight should be removed as well, mid battle. NO FREE RIDES. Bet you thought you got lucky, but nope. Bye bye.
5. Low defense tanks. You're a tank, your main stat is DEFENSE. A 10k+gs tank should not have under 4K defense. Learn your role.
6. GWF IS NOT A FREAKING TANK.
7. Friends. I should be able to close a lobby to invite only to keep you guys out.
8. Complete lobby takeover. If I can join your lobby and you or your own team mates are quick to kick anyone I start a vote on, the voters should not be whining when they get kicked too. You are ALL guilty of this, don't even deny that. Don't be a hypocrite.
9. Dracolich. Oh god, Dracolich. If your group can't kill it, and we take your lobby, you probably shouldn't be trying to fight it. This is a big one for winning hypocrites. YOU voted your team out, don't cry when you get kicked too. I lose lobbies too, but it's all fair game. I take them as well.
10. Groups. Some groups run loot rules where we make sure everyone in our group or guild gets loot, a split ofthe profits, and the gear we need when it drops. If you think for an instant I'm going to trust some shady random, you're insane. You're getting kicked for MY TEAM. Probably most of you have no idea what to do with Draco and don't even belong there.
11. Terrible players. This is more than just gearscore. Most GWF do not know how to play their class. Most DPS do not have their stats right. I see 15k gs dps with under 4k power. You are getting the boot. You should be above that before 12k gs even. .. use some guides, I know a lot of you think destiny is an mmorpg but a lot of you have no idea how to play an mmorog.
12. People who don't listen. If an experienced cleric and tank say do something, do it. As a DC, I tell you these things to make MY job easier. I'm not chasing 4 people in 5 directions. I'm glad your only job is to attack things, I have to try to keep ago of you alive. Rogues, WAIT. Let the tank take the lead dang it out you're getting DAS BOOT! INSTANTLY!
13. You guys kick anyone who pops in with the same class as you out of greed for loot? When I have two rogues in my lobby and one gets a vote to kick on him, 9x out of 10 its the other rogue being a greedy fool and I kick them instead.
I can give you more reasons we need to be able to kick people than you can give excuses to take that option away from us. This isn't wow and a lot of these console rookies have no idea what they're doing. And obviously no idea why they're getting kicked.
I make a note to tell people why I am kicking them before I do. Be it under geared, under powered, low defense, poor skill use, a bad spec. .. ever see a tank with more power than defense or zero AoE taunt? A cleric that can't heal for poo? DPS that are out damaged by a heal spec cleric? I have. In every single one of your fail groups.
The only rule we need is a 3 strike rule. After 3x getting kicked from a specific lobby, you can no longer join that instance. So you are forced to a different one.
Edit: AND matchmaking that gives us heal, tank, 3dps.
FeelTheBern
Ive gottta say spending 3 hours to get a random group that doesnt kick you because of racism is like stabbing myself in the eye a few hundered times. Ive 2 manned epic dungeons on bosses yet people wouldnt know that because all they pay attention to is GS and race. You have to make it a way in the begnning before ready up where once you see other classes in game and if you ready up your set, the afk kicking should be much like in PVP if your gone for too long standing still youll be removed, but witha replacement option. The bratty whiny kids on this game, kick people when they dont get there way, and its making it extremely un fun. Im about to delete this game and go back to WARFRAME where you cant kick people once youve recruited them and LAUNCHED THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
VTK is a problem, but the system IS needed for a number of reasons. My solution in my opinion would solve almost all VTK problems. Make it like praying. Only can do it at a fire. If a team is really trying to look for a specific class, they will be at the fire waiting anyway.
The only ones who could vote with whoever was currently trying to be kicked, they would have to be near the campfire to participate in said kicking. Would eliminate kicking during boss. Even if boss is almost dead, a troll dies, is at the fire, noone else could vote as they are not near the campfire! Seems simple to add that in place, no?
I've seen/heard instances of people getting kicked with the final boss at 10% health which is quite a bummer, they should also disable vote kick once final boss is engaged, except on disconnect, the servers can distinguish between:
1 - Leaving on your own
2 - Server disconnection
3 - Vote kick
If you allow the voted party who got kicked to Need/Greed/Pass on all loot after being kicked during the final boss once they reconnect to the servers or Protector's Enclave and all winners get their loot in the Mail, this could also be a temporary solution. No one would kick for the sake of hoarding end boss drops. Personally, I always go in with 4 other friends, not everyone has this option, so the system must be fair.
Bottom of page 2:
4. Free rides. This is a big one. If you die and have near nothing to do with a boss fight, you don't deserve the boss loot. I don't give free rides, I WILL kick freeloaders.
Also players joining MID boss battle who can't get into the fight should be removed as well, mid battle. NO FREE RIDES. Bet you thought you got lucky, but nope. Bye bye.
side note: IF, and only if, you can blame the healer (ME), which doesn't happen because it's also my job to direct the battle for proper healing, you are exempt from being kicked.
People who usually die beginning a boss fight either are not geared to be there, should not be there, do not have a clue what they are doing, are NOT listening to the people telling them what to do when obviously they don't know, or are moron rogues pretending to be tanks. Or other players trying to do a job that is not theirs. If anything, JOINING once the boss battle starts should not be allowed.
Examples:
1. We 3 manned Dracolich yesterday thinking our lobby was broken as nobody was entering. Two people joined, we booted them as the boss died. There is no way some rookie is getting that expensive gear when they didn't do anything.
2. Dying instantly.. Players who are still standing on the platform of Spellplague when it drops when they were TOLD before hand not to. Players who literally RUN off the edge of Spellplague area with complete incompetence. Players who attempt Dracolich and don't bother dodging hands. Players who don't dodge ANYTHING. Players who stand in AoE's not paying attention causing massive tank damage via Valor. CW's who try to control adds and pull aggro from tank when they should be focusing on the boss.
3. Players who join mid boss battle when all they do is sit at the campfire waiting.
4. Players who do not listen to instruction at all when talked to prior to boss battle beginning. I always make sure to communicate via in game chat text what players are required to do. I ALWAYS communicate mid battle telling DPS when to switch to adds and when it's OK to control/pull aggro from tank. Simple words. BOSS, ADDS, and STICK TOGETHER FOR HEALS.
5. Rogues who lead the party when a tank is present.
6. GWF who lead the party when a tank is present.
7. Rogues and GWF who think they are tanks.
8. Any player with any variation of the name Legolas.
9. Any player with any variation of the name Legolas.
10. Any player with any variation of the name Legolas.
These are the people I always kick OUT of my party. The people who do not work for the loot. The people who don't play their class in a fight properly. The people who do not listen. The people who end up wiping the party. And let us not forget the people who go AFK.
Enough of the excuses. See bottom of page 2. This system is REQUIRED. The ONLY changes we need, is the requirement for 1 heal, 1 tank, 3 DPS.
I agree with all the points you make BUT not all the people we are talking about have reasons like you, yesterday i was in a epic run karrundax half way i see a vote pop up kick this person, reason just for lols i click no (never ever voted someone off) person gets kicked someone else joins. At the boss another vote comes up i click no person gets kicked, after boss is death before the loot vote comes up, was busy fighting so didnt vote person gets kicked, now we are only with the 3 of us meaning 2 people have been starting votes just for the fun of it and kicking people off and if people did not vote of like i do everyone would have reached the end and gotten loot. see how messed up the system is?