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Learned spellcaster or prestidigitation?

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  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    abaddon523 wrote: »

    If you have results that differ from mine, I would love to see them and discuss them. If you do no data with which to contradict the evidence then I have no interest in your objections.

    AMEN! There are those individuals that actually take time to test and further the class like Abaddon, and those that just want to jerk your chain like Beatmeater.
  • beatannierbeatannier Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 692 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    All your HV bad assumptions is caused by your Kaelac`s mistake, who told:
    Kaelac wrote:
    In PvE, enemies do not have a ‘defense’ stat.
    laggygamerz.com/forum/index.php?/topic/382-kaelac%E2%80%99s-guide-to-damage-tenacity-reisistance-and-debuffs-in-neverwinter/

    It was blindly repeated many times:
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    Mobs don't have a defense stat, so when it says "reduces defense by XXXX" there is nothing to reduce.

    So the game counts all these kind of effects as damage bonuses and not as defensive penalties.

    yes, it is completely different than armor pen.

    So on a player a HV stack is -450 defense
    on a mob it is 10% damage bonus to everything.

    But your assumptions was wrong. Mobs (called NPC) HAVE DEFENSE.
    For example, here is the patch note that repairs High Vizier, defense was stolen from players to NPC instead of opposite (like Vorpal rank 11/12 debuff works now).

    Below official patch note:
    Control Wizard: High Vizier's Set no longer increases NPC defense and lowers the player's. The set bonus can now affect control-based Daily powers, too.
    "Balance and Gameplay Update": nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=907501
    wikia.com: neverwinter.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_Notes#Patch_Notes_.E2.80.93_NW.3.20130529d.6
    Google cache: webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DFejwGL5QM8J:nw.perfectworld.com/news/%3Fp%3D907501&hl=pl&gl=pl&strip=1


    All the stats/ACT screenshots/combat logs etc. are misleading and worthless, cause are tested by undercapped characters or on dummies that 1350 is, in fact, in this some cases 30%.

    I was learned that if the statement assumptions are false, all the statement cannot be considered as true.
    Thus, I don`t have and don`t want to proove you anything more, because I don`t have to.


    This is my final word about HV.
    And telling that I don`t make tests after spending togheter hours on testing.. so shame.
  • angrymanagementangrymanagement Member Posts: 487 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    beatannier wrote: »

    I think you mis-understood what that patch was referring to. It was a patch to prevent HV from buffing mobs & debuffing the player using it.

    It seems you don't do any testing, and I'm pretty sure you don't have access to the server source code like you seem to be trying to indicate in your posts.
  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    beatannier wrote: »
    And telling that I don`t make tests after spending togheter hours on testing.. so shame.

    Still waiting for those results.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • beatannierbeatannier Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 692 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I'm pretty sure you don't have access to the server source code

    It would be a serious accusation to tell that somebody have some Cryptic or PWE Intellectual Property.
    Let`s end as the topic goes into the wrong direction.
  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    beatannier wrote: »
    It would be a serious accusation to tell that somebody have some Cryptic or PWE Intellectual Property.
    Let`s end as the topic goes into the wrong direction.

    Still waiting on test results. It took me 10 minutes. What's the hold-up?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    beatannier wrote: »
    I told I will not talk with you since you choose the enemies and stats that 1450 will make 30%.
    This is the essence.
    You prepare your stats to be exactly 30% under the armor pen cap (or close to) and choose weak enemy that 1450 will pass the 30%.
    This is far behind "evidence".

    And how you want from me "evidence" for someting that does not exists?

    2r6041c.jpg

    http://z0r.de/6608

    Don't want to say anything on this. Just...lol. :p
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • umscheumsche Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 461 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    umsche wrote: »
    Testing cases when it does not add 30% damage.

    This would prove you're right.
  • angrymanagementangrymanagement Member Posts: 487 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Back on track with the OP topic.
    Prestidigation vs Learned Spellcaster is an old argument, and it is unlikely everyone will ever agree on it.

    I'm running an AOE setup non human, so I automatically have 2 points in Learned Spellcaster. That leaves 3 points for me to consider.
    With my current stats, this is what I get from Prestidigation:

    No health increase from Prestidigation.
    572 Power
    0.5% crit chance
    1.2% res ignored - Meaningless as I am already over the arm pen cap (as far as I know).
    0.3% recharge speed - Meaningless with spell twisting.
    0.2% ap gain - Marginally meaningless with spell twisting + Sigil of Devoted.

    Basically for me it comes down to 1/2% crit & 572 Power. I would have to say that the 3%ish extra damage would probably be better for me personally than the .5% crit & 1%ish damage increase. My defensive stats are so low that its basically meaningless for them (79 defense & 53 lifesteal).

    It still comes back to everyone in the party gets the buff. Assuming one healer & a tank class, that leaves 3 DPS (4 DPS is not that uncommon currently). Assuming I am running with similarly geared players, thats a 1%ish damage increase for 3 DPS classes, and they get whatever they get from the crit/recovery stats.
    I need to see more runs without DC ap gains, but I think the highest DPS class right now is GWF. SW may be a good bit higher than CW as well. So rare to see really good HR/TRs, but they might give us a run for the money.

    For a PVP build, I would put 2 points in Learned Spellcaster & 3 in Focused Wizardry, but for now I think I will stick with Prestidigation.
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