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Difficulty settings

mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
edited April 2015 in General Discussion (PC)
Why, instead of overtuning mob damage up and down, won't you implement different levels of difficulty? Call them easy, normal and hard. Easy - mobs have little hp and damage, reduced rewards; normal - average mob hp and damage, basic rewards; hard - increased mob hp and damage, increased rewards. Solo queuing would put you in the normal dungeons and skirmishes. Full parties would be able to choose the difficulty.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Post edited by mehguy138 on
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  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    it would be 3x more work and would increase botting by a lot

    and u can chose easy dungeons now, they are even 3man so you dont have to get a full party

    3kid version and 5man version, simple
    Paladin Master Race
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I think this is a really good idea - DDO has something very similar and it works fairly well. It would allow newbies to gear up while enabling vets to be challenged.

    burkaanc wrote: »
    it would be 3x more work and would increase botting by a lot

    Err, I am pretty sure you are wrong on both counts.

    The vast majority of the work is creating the dungeon and monster assets. Once that is done it would be relatively simple to set (for example) monster damage and HP at 50% on easy, 100% on normal and 150% on hard difficulties. Cryptic has mob/player scaling abilities so we know this can be done.

    And I am sure there are much, much more efficient ways for botting than creating one that can run dungeons. If there is a huge amount of (AFAIK totally unjustified) paranoia about this possibility, they could simply let all the major rewards for easy dungeons be BtC or BtA. After all the whole point of easy difficulties is to allow new characters to gear up to face greater challenges.
  • magnusolammagnusolam Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 82
    edited April 2015
    mehguy138 wrote: »
    Why, instead of overtuning mob damage up and down, won't you implement different levels of difficulty? Call them easy, normal and hard. Easy - mobs have little hp and damage, reduced rewards; normal - average mob hp and damage, basic rewards; hard - increased mob hp and damage, increased rewards. Solo queuing would put you in the normal dungeons and skirmishes. Full parties would be able to choose the difficulty.

    Sounds reasonable but rewards should be the same for each difficulty level to allow players to gear up effectively. Those playing on 'hard' level will be doing so for the challenge because they consider that fun (that is their reward same as anyone else). If they want to gear up quickly and skip the challenge then they can choose to do that same as anyone else, the point is it's about freedom of choice. Equal rewards mean that players who want to can move up difficulty levels and join in on an equal footing.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    magnusolam wrote: »
    Sounds reasonable but rewards should be the same for each difficulty level to allow players to gear up effectively. Those playing on 'hard' level will be doing so for the challenge because they consider that fun (that is their reward same as anyone else). If they want to gear up quickly and skip the challenge then they can choose to do that same as anyone else, the point is it's about freedom of choice. Equal rewards mean that players who want to can move up difficulty levels and join in on an equal footing.

    maybe everybody should get everything for free ? hard content - good rewards, easy content - trash rewards, and thats before considering botting, where bots would just run easy content 24/7 and get rewards
    Paladin Master Race
  • phoenix1021phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    burkaanc wrote: »
    3kid version and 5man version, simple

    Sure, because playing hard difficulty in a video game is what defines manhood!

    Anyway, we don't need "hard" content for 2% of the players so they can feel like they are awesome or something. Especially if "hard" means everything just has more hp and deals more damage.
    Make enemies smarter, make encounters consists of healers, damage dealers, etc. teach them to flank and dodge; that would be more challenging. What we have now is nothing like it.
  • landoras1975landoras1975 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 88 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    burkaanc wrote: »
    it would be 3x more work and would increase botting by a lot

    and u can chose easy dungeons now, they are even 3man so you dont have to get a full party

    3kid version and 5man version, simple

    Botting shouldn't decide content
  • magnusolammagnusolam Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 82
    edited April 2015
    burkaanc wrote: »
    maybe everybody should get everything for free ? hard content - good rewards, easy content - trash rewards, and thats before considering botting, where bots would just run easy content 24/7 and get rewards

    Implementing differing rewards really would make for '3x more work', also if those playing at higher difficulties get better stuff the whining and crying about it being too easy would start up again more quickly.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Sure, because playing hard difficulty in a video game is what defines manhood!

    Anyway, we don't need "hard" content for 2% of the players so they can feel like they are awesome or something. Especially if "hard" means everything just has more hp and deals more damage.
    Make enemies smarter, make encounters consists of healers, damage dealers, etc. teach them to flank and dodge; that would be more challenging. What we have now is nothing like it.

    and i dont need content for helmet wearing gaming population, but i dont try to get all of that content removed, so why do u try to get my part of content removed
    Paladin Master Race
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  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    They nerfed damage from npcs in T1 dungeons by more or less 60% already - this without increasing the frequency of these attacks to make damage sustained instead of burst. That's a huge nerf. What else you you want? Fighting training dummies?
  • edited April 2015
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  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    kalindra wrote: »
    It would be trivial for an average programmer working on decent designed code.
    ...otherwise: time for either job offers or refactoring.
    this game having quite a huge mess in that department is quite clear, ideally they should rework much of it, but thats a ton of work, and chances of them doing that is really small
    How that?

    because easy content is easily done by bots, and easy content giving good rewards would mean a bunch of bots farming dungeons for rewards
    Paladin Master Race
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    kalindra wrote: »
    No, everybody should get what the need to enjoy the game at the level of difficulty they are comfortable with...
    ...it's a game, not a job, you know.

    its a hobby, just like sailing, and like in sailing beginners go around a pond, while pros can brave storms in the ocean, same as with any other hobby sport, havent seen ppl trying to nerf the ocean and storms so beginners can sail there
    Paladin Master Race
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I don't why they couldn't make this work. You have players of various levels together in CTA skirmishes. Enemies DO/CAN scale for individual players. A player can increase their level to 71 if they wish, it won't affect other players.
  • magnusolammagnusolam Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 82
    edited April 2015
    burkaanc wrote: »
    its a hobby, just like sailing, and like in sailing beginners go around a pond, while pros can brave storms in the ocean, same as with any other hobby sport, havent seen ppl trying to nerf the ocean and storms so beginners can sail there

    The difference is that with this change, the game provides for both. Those who choose to 'brave storms in the ocean' are perfectly free to do so, those who don't are similarly free not to.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    magnusolam wrote: »
    The difference is that with this change, the game provides for both. Those who choose to 'brave storms in the ocean' are perfectly free to do so, those who don't are similarly free not to.

    its only fair that higher difficulty offers higher rewards
    Paladin Master Race
  • magnusolammagnusolam Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 82
    edited April 2015
    burkaanc wrote: »
    its only fair that higher difficulty offers higher rewards

    Those who choose to 'brave storms in the ocean' are perfectly free to do so, those who don't are similarly free not to.
  • bruceiferbruceifer Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    burkaanc wrote: »
    its a hobby, just like sailing, and like in sailing beginners go around a pond, while pros can brave storms in the ocean, same as with any other hobby sport, havent seen ppl trying to nerf the ocean and storms so beginners can sail there

    Nor have the pros buffed the pond to make it more challenging for everyone. I would think you of all people would love the idea of very wide difficulty settings, or scaling. You said "most people play the game poorly" thus if they set the game at a challenge level for the majority you will be under challenged.

    After publicly apologizing for the state of mod 6 our new lead dev has put game difficulty on the top of his things to look at and adjust list. If many were happy with the challenge level before start there, with a difficuly level of about what it was on the easiest option, and go all the way up to something harder than it is now that can be a great challenge to the best players.

    You get to keep your entire pool of interested players in the game, and all with difficulty they find fun.
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    magnusolam wrote: »
    Those who choose to 'brave storms in the ocean' are perfectly free to do so, those who don't are similarly free not to.

    its not like anybody is forcing them now, they can easily sit in their pond(3mans, sharandar, ToD etc.) or did cryptic hire gunmen to force ppl running t2's, i guess mine then got lost somewhere
    Paladin Master Race
  • bruceiferbruceifer Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I'm not talking about nerfing T2 dungeons, or making Well of Dragons into a kiddie pool. There are hundreds of folks screaming about getting to sharandar and dread ring after completing spinward and getting splattered. The dailys in these areas are the low end. If folks are having problems there that is where I am talking about making the slope gentler. I know you think these areas are easy already, but by your own admission you are better than most mere mortals. Since only the deep end is a challenge for you what happens there would not affect you at all.
  • bruceiferbruceifer Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Having difficulty settings, say easy normal, hardcore, nightmare, just for an example would offer a wide variety of challenge to non dungeon areas. Thus even if you have completed running the hardest areas of the game and were getting bored doing the same stuff over and over you could go back to earlier areas and crank the difficulty and have fun doing something you hadn't done in a while.

    Your drops wouldn't need to change much, if at all. You still get drops tiered by area with your dungeons giving the highest because they are listed as hard areas requiring a party. But our story line soloable content of the game could for the players enjoyment on BOTH ends of the spectrum have difficulty options, with the lower end rewarding less experience as the challenge is less
  • buzzardsbaitbuzzardsbait Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    There is already a infinite sliding dificulty built in already.

    You do know all that bling can be removed?

    Play naked and tell me how easy it is
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    bruceifer wrote: »
    Having difficulty settings, say easy normal, hardcore, nightmare, just for an example would offer a wide variety of challenge to non dungeon areas. Thus even if you have completed running the hardest areas of the game and were getting bored doing the same stuff over and over you could go back to earlier areas and crank the difficulty and have fun doing something you hadn't done in a while.

    there is normal and epic already, they could add legendary in mod 7 or 8 to give new drops, so they have this in game already
    bruceifer wrote: »
    I'm not talking about nerfing T2 dungeons, or making Well of Dragons into a kiddie pool. There are hundreds of folks screaming about getting to sharandar and dread ring after completing spinward and getting splattered. The dailys in these areas are the low end. If folks are having problems there that is where I am talking about making the slope gentler. I know you think these areas are easy already, but by your own admission you are better than most mere mortals. Since only the deep end is a challenge for you what happens there would not affect you at all.

    sharandar has same difficulty as spinward, i think the ppl crying about difficulty are doing it at lvl 60 or so, though if sharandar and dread is a problem i dont really care about difficulty of that content, for me its just some boring grind with 0 challenge already, its IWD, and, to lesser extent WoD i dont want to lose
    Paladin Master Race
  • magnusolammagnusolam Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 82
    edited April 2015
    burkaanc wrote: »
    its IWD, and, to lesser extent WoD i dont want to lose

    This thread is about difficulty levels, you wouldn't lose any content, but others might gain it.
  • walk2kwalk2k Member Posts: 928 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    just ignore the troll. he's so internet-<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> he can solo t2 dungeons naked, we're all just nub scrub kids who need to man up and get more L2P. in fact, welcome to my ignore list troll, the first and only. gratz!
  • mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I don't get this crying. I'm not asking for nerfs nor buffs, I want the devs to give players an option to choose how strong the challenge will be. Everyone who wants to be instakilled 3 times per second will have that opportunity while those who don't will have their own fun. The difference in rewards would be something like 30 seals for hard, 15 for normal and 5 for easy.

    I just want this game to be enjoyable for everyone.
    M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
  • magnusolammagnusolam Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 82
    edited April 2015
    mehguy138 wrote: »
    I don't get this crying. I'm not asking for nerfs nor buffs, I want the devs to give players an option to choose how strong the challenge will be. Everyone who wants to be instakilled 3 times per second will have that opportunity while those who don't will have their own fun. The difference in rewards would be something like 30 seals for hard, 15 for normal and 5 for easy.

    I just want this game to be enjoyable for everyone.

    Why a difference in rewards?
    Player A plays a character for fun and gets 5 seals
    Player B plays a character for fun and gets 30 seals

    makes no sense to me.

    It also means that newer players who want to move on to higher difficulties (because they've geared up) will enter higher levels at a disadvantage (as well as having to wait longer/ grind more before doing so). Surely the goal should be to make it easier for them to move up levels and join in earlier (easier for players at high levels to form groups).

    Oh..yeah...there's also the argument that players who want more of a challenge should receive less rewards in order to make it more challenging (besides everything's already too easy for them so they don't need the rewards anyway).
  • instynctiveinstynctive Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,885 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Difficulty should be based on Item Level Score and monsters scaled to that. of course, monsters should be a little "tougher" than characters, but if it's based on Item Level, then the uber733t windowlickers will have their uberhard dungeons to whack off in, and we the trash gear n00bs will still be able to casually play as always.

    And yes, uber7eets, obviously the rewards would scale up so you can continue to get your uber733t drops and stuff.


    This is a very simple solution, and I'm honestly surprised that it has not been implemented in the past.
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    "...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Difficulty should be based on Item Level Score and monsters scaled to that. of course, monsters should be a little "tougher" than characters, but if it's based on Item Level, then the uber733t windowlickers will have their uberhard dungeons to whack off in, and we the trash gear n00bs will still be able to casually play as always.

    And yes, uber7eets, obviously the rewards would scale up so you can continue to get your uber733t drops and stuff.


    This is a very simple solution, and I'm honestly surprised that it has not been implemented in the past.

    unequip all gear enter dungeon everything dies from aura of radiance

    and that would be like skyrims scaling, and that sucks
    Paladin Master Race
  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    diogene0 wrote: »
    They nerfed damage from npcs in T1 dungeons by more or less 60% already - this without increasing the frequency of these attacks to make damage sustained instead of burst. That's a huge nerf. What else you you want? Fighting training dummies?
    I don't want them to lower the difficulty in Dungeons that should be a team encounter and glory . But I do very much think that they should lower the difficulty on Dailies.This is something that a person should be able to do solo so they can learn and grow to a point that they are ready for the real stuff .Dungeons and teaming tasks.
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