But then again, if you read your own post correctly, you did not state it the way you claim to mean it.
You're not teaching public school kids. You're just scolding them and telling them to stop going to school.
My problem with your post is that you stated it as if everybody who has been playing executioner or someone trying to learn the path is destined to screw up and utterly fail to become a dead weight.
This has been stated many times in other replies, You assume that the only right way to play TR is the way you play it. You don't reply/acknowledge to those posts mentioning this. And why the hell someone who joined the forum Jan 2015 call everybody else Padawans. I didn't know only takes 2 months to become a Jedi Master, unless...
Which is exactly the point of this thread, thank you. The criticism against the "1s" and the "2s", and particularly the "2s", since as I've said, what these type of TRs are doing is simply nothing but using others as meatshields.
It's on the exact same level of stupidity as people standing on top of pillars.
I don't disagree and I can understand the frustration of an investment in a class that many newer/poopy players can jump right into and abuse the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of it, giving the class a bad name for everyone else.
The whole point of this thread is to preach that it is ok to be arrogant, treat differing opinions pointless, treat everybody else useless.
Hmm, doesn't make you any different from those "useless executioners" you hated so much.
Bad play is bad, no matter how you wish to twist and turn that fact with your implied imagery of this bullchit political correctness you're trying to push. Executioners that linger outside the nodes for personal kills have no excuse at all. By giving up backcapping they're already doing much less than what a TR is expected to do in a match, which means the only way they make up for the deficit is by at least making it sure that mid-node 2 is always covered by friendlies.
But of course, these half-with execs can't even do that. They usually don't even know which classes the primary targets are, and with their idiot kill fixation proceed to stab an opponent who is already neutralized and not much of a threat.
...
If you don't understand what this means -- as it clearly seems to be the case -- I've no choice but to simply assume you're just another clueless TR with no idea at all how domination works. *shrug*
You just assumed that I'm clueless without considering that I might not be one of those kamikaze TRs or that I might have won more domination matches than you. Makes me wonder why someone who calls himself master still queues in pug pvp, and gets frustrated like a spoiled brat over things that only happen in pugs. Still not done with the pvp campaign?
As I stated earlier, there are lot's of ways to play TR. Some ways (and the most popular ones these days) suck big time, but your is not the only good way. You're generalizing every other alternative to your idea as stupid and those that disagree with you are clueless.
This level of arrogance is what makes me hate those kill/death fanatic TRs and this thread all the same.
This is just a whiny hate thread, started by an arrogant sob who probably only experienced mod5 pvp.
You just assumed that I'm clueless without considering that I might not be one of those kamikaze TRs or that I might have won more domination matches than you. Makes me wonder why someone who calls himself master still queues in pug pvp, and gets frustrated like a spoiled brat over things that only happen in pugs. Still not done with the pvp campaign?
As I stated earlier, there are lot's of ways to play TR. Some ways (and the most popular ones these days) suck big time, but your is not the only good way. You're generalizing every other alternative to your idea as stupid and those that disagree with you are clueless.
This level of arrogance is what makes me hate those kill/death fanatic TRs and this thread all the same.
This is just a whiny hate thread, started by an arrogant sob who probably only experienced mod5 pvp.
That's interesting. So you're basically denying at face-value the basic methods of how TRs are to be played in domination which has been tried, tested, and set forth in the current form by hundreds of TRs since day1 of Domination in this game.
It's all quite nice and dandy, except the fact that your "different ways to play it" are simply based on empty words. I dare you to prove it.
basic methods of how TRs are to be played in domination which has been tried, tested, and set forth in the current form by hundreds of TRs since day1 of Domination in this game..
Says who, You?
You do remember that TR Paragon Feats were overhauled in Mod 5, do you? All TRs got free Feat respec and that SoD exploit only became possible post-Mod5. Come mod 6 and things will probably change again, especially with the TR nerfs and DR boosts for all classes.
If you think that choice of paragon feats shouldn't affect your play style, then you're the one who's absolutely clueless.
You're the type of guy that asks around zone chat for "best build for TR", "best artifact for TR", and follow cookie cutter builds to the letter when you were a lowbie aren't you? (LoL, and somebody told you that WK Sabo is the only useful build)
You do remember that TR Paragon Feats were overhauled in Mod 5, do you? All TRs got free Feat respec and that SoD exploit only became possible post-Mod5. Come mod 6 and things will probably change again, especially with the TR nerfs and DR boosts for all classes.
If you think that choice of paragon feats shouldn't affect your play style, then you're the one who's absolutely clueless.
That's not an answer. As a matter of fact its pretty easy to conclude that you don't have one in the first place, since your entire response from the start is simply a reactionary response as a (assumingly) terribad executioner.
I mean, TRs are either combat TRs or backcappers. If it's not one of these, then what is it? Is it so hard to explain at least?
If its not just a fancy way of saying "I don't do my part in PvP, and most of what I do is leech kills by using my teammates as meatshields" then hey, by all means, I welcome it. Share with us. Every TR player would welcome to learn something new, so long as it is proven viable.
So just treat me like your regular classroom dunce and explain -- since whatever this 'new way of playing TRs' is that I might have seen recently, to me, looked exactly like what the old-time TRs would describe as "terribad TR play" -- which, the end result being the team LOSING.
No backcapping/contesting, no score disruption, no luring enemies into their backnode, spending more than half the playtime running away while destealthed and running up and down the 2nd floor/bridge level to gobble up heal pots... not even worthy as combat TRs since they're never around fights where they are needed, can't do anything except waiting the 20nd intervals for LB... instead of targeting their DCs and CWs stealing kills from others by attacking an enemy that's already mostly suppressed.... oh wow, geez, I wonder just how any of this type of nubby gameplay is supposed to become a 'new style of TR play'.
Am I arrogant in pointing out what's stupid as stupid? Perhaps it's not stupid then. Perhaps some genius executioner TR player can explain to me what the whole point of all of above is, since I for one, cannot understand this at all.
Backcapping and Direct combat assistance is not exclusive to saboteurs and scoundrels.
Both glass cannon and reflect executioner builds can do this. But you wouldn't care would you?
"The one true build is a permagay wk"
Because it does not have the OP ItC? Honestly, if they get rid of that power, there would not be this many nerfing TR threads since release of this game.
In my opinion, it is not about what tree players choose to play, it is about how to play and contribute the most to win a match. While TR is one of the best classes to backcapping, players should be flexible and adapt to the flow of the match. For example, just because TR is excel at backcapping, they should not only do backcapping forever, but also help to defend home or mid or keep other backcappers on their toes (if it is necessary).
I have seen some sabo literally camping enemy node from the start to the end of the match, killing anyone contesting, but never helping teammates to defend middle even when there is no one contesting at their camping node. That is an inflexible and selfish play style.
Backcapping and Direct combat assistance is not exclusive to saboteurs and scoundrels.
Both glass cannon and reflect executioner builds can do this. But you wouldn't care would you?
"The one true build is a permagay wk"
Dyslexia strikes again.
Read the posts again, and maybe this time you're dim brain will input the fact that I've clearly laid down on just what kind of play style is being under criticism here.
Friggin' talk about strawman arguments. :rolleyes:
Besides, you still haven't told us just what that 'different style of play' is. When we gonna get a glimpse of what you're talking about?
Would love if this game were worth this kind of passion. That would be a great game even given class imbalance. As it is, it is hard to even get a que to reliably pop within 20 minutes.
Because it does not have the OP ItC? Honestly, if they get rid of that power, there would not be this many nerfing TR threads since release of this game.
In my opinion, it is not about what tree players choose to play, it is about how to play and contribute the most to win a match. While TR is one of the best classes to backcapping, players should be flexible and adapt to the flow of the match. For example, just because TR is excel at backcapping, they should not only do backcapping forever, but also help to defend home or mid or keep other backcappers on their toes (if it is necessary).
I have seen some sabo literally camping enemy node from the start to the end of the match, killing anyone contesting, but never helping teammates to defend middle even when there is no one contesting at their camping node. That is an inflexible and selfish play style.
I agree..being flexible and adapting to the flow of the match, imo, is far more important than having every TR to just backcapping..Notice how top premades play and you see one major consistency in game play, which is how well they assist. Also, having a TR go to mid for sole purpose of "baiting" some of the opposing team members to chase them away from mid allows your team an advantage in #'s, making it easier to take mid and spreading out the opposing team. Having said this, depending on the team you're queued with, and if falling behind, then backcapping is necessary to try to catch up in the match. What get's me is when the match starts, and you see 3 of your 5 teammates run right to your own point, while the other team is capping mid or capping both with 4 at mid and 1 at their pt. In this scenario, most times, you've already lost the match from the start, unless playing against a very weak opposing team.
hello i want to add to OP,s post. I did an experiment. I took my trickster rogue account to PVP. and played a bunch of games.
I played two styles, 50% of these games were played in the "Roamer/Deathmatch/Kill-Only" style TR that OP describes, whereas the other 50% of the games was played with a Perma-Stealth build and backcapping the bases, here are the results.
Roamer Style
Perma-Stealth Style
All of these games were played on the exact same account, using a re-spec between Executioner 1-shot wonder (Glass-Cannon) and Saboteur build with moderate HP.
So people, please stop playing 1-shot wonders and help your team, winning is more important than your KDR that nobody cares about.
hello i want to add to OP,s post. I did an experiment. I took my trickster rogue account to PVP. and played a bunch of games.
I played two styles, 50% of these games were played in the "Roamer/Deathmatch/Kill-Only" style TR that OP describes, whereas the other 50% of the games was played with a Perma-Stealth build and backcapping the bases, here are the results.
Roamer Style
Perma-Stealth Style
All of these games were played on the exact same account, using a re-spec between Executioner 1-shot wonder (Glass-Cannon) and Saboteur build with moderate HP.
So people, please stop playing 1-shot wonders and help your team, winning is more important than your KDR that nobody cares about.
regards
My point in all of this is that playstyle is wayyy more important than build, where trickster rogue is concerned. Every path is viable in pvp with the correct playstyle.
Including MI Exe.
So what is the counter-point? To me a productive discussion would be: "Hey I do great backcapping with my mi exec" then someone else says, "well it is a viable build for that purpose but not as effective as this other build and here is why".
I laid out how a MI Exe is an awesome back capping build. I even baited that by describing how you dominate nodes as a combat rogue more so than just troll them perma style. No one is biting. I hate playing troll tr. I get on that node and dare the other team to knock me off. Contesting a node in a 1v2 or more you have to acknowledge that a good k/d ratio is key to actually dominating the node its self, generating more points than just trolloling it. No? School me, I want to learn.
Last but not least, why does a mi exe have to be a glass cannon? That build can be made tanky as hell.
btw this thread is making me want to pull my tr back off the shelf. Really one of the most enjoyable classes in both pve and pvp, in small doses. I would kill to have consistently challenging matches/dungeons/HE's and a regular competent team.
My point in all of this is that playstyle is wayyy more important than build, where trickster rogue is concerned. Every path is viable in pvp with the correct playstyle.
Including MI Exe.
So what is the counter-point? To me a productive discussion would be: "Hey I do great backcapping with my mi exec" then someone else says, "well it is a viable build for that purpose but not as effective as this other build and here is why".
I laid out how a MI Exe is an awesome back capping build. I even baited that by describing how you dominate nodes as a combat rogue more so than just troll them perma style. No one is biting. I hate playing troll tr. I get on that node and dare the other team to knock me off. Contesting a node in a 1v2 or more you have to acknowledge that a good k/d ratio is key to actually dominating the node its self, generating more points than just trolloling it. No? School me, I want to learn.
Last but not least, why does a mi exe have to be a glass cannon? That build can be made tanky as hell.
btw this thread is making me want to pull my tr back off the shelf. Really one of the most enjoyable classes in both pve and pvp, in small doses. I would kill to have consistently challenging matches/dungeons/HE's and a regular competent team.
I play executioner. I win matches, Perma stealth is lame
Your "wannabe" argument assumes:
1) Static Gameplay
This is a false assumption. Those of us who have played since mod1 know that NW gameplay and potential class roles have changed repeatedly in pvp and pve.
Yes, NW pvp has been neglected by Cryptic. It is lacking in diversity.
But there have still been gamechanging alterations.
I played through the introductions of tenacity, blackice, (pseudo)ELO matching, leaver penalties, leaderboard, grim gear, victory currency, HR/SW intro... to name a few.
Each of those changes caused drastic alterations in how pvp could be played.
With each change we all had fun testing the limits of our TR OUTSIDE of predefined roles.
That leads to your second false assumption:
2) Static Class Roles
Roles are only created when all limits are tested...
or when myopic bullies ridicule those who test those limits.
DC Kaelac and CWs Grimah, Chem and IronZerg were "wannabes" by your laws.
They dared to try unusual approaches to their classes.
DCs who can also do DPS? CWs who believe "death is control"?
Blasphemy.
They are now considered experts.
OP, you mean well and I respect your support of the game.
But you are being a champion of stagnation...
And that's fine. Stay the same. Do as you are told.
But don't tell the rest of us to obey your narrow view.
PUGs are free range.
Don't like "wannabes" like me playing my TR slightly different from all the sheeple?
0FG.
Stick to premade.
TL;DR
Innovation and freedom to try unusual approaches are rights of all players and are good for the TR class.
Jesus god, ok good point. Spell out your creative new tr playstyle that is so effective. I don't doubt that one exists but at least detail what it is. The tr whos priority is k/d over match wins is a fail tr. How could anyone argue with that? With some hyperbole thrown in, the "priority is to win period", is what I take as the point of the OP. It is an immutable point. Play to win. Are you saying that point is wrong or are you saying there are other paths to the same goal? Again, spell them out. This could be a productive thread or just a lot of epeen sword fighting.
Since mod5, so many TRs -- or rather, "TR Wannabes" in all different level/skill ranges of PvP that its not hard to see the great buffs in this latest mod have drawn the interest of many players, both old and new. Okay, this is a good thing. A lot of players like the class.
But then again, here's the bad part: I don't think I have ever seen a mod with so many TR players being so absolutely clueless as to what they are supposed to do in domination. I've used this expression before, but in almost every match, the endless stream of TRs we get are simply lacking in so many ways, compared to the days when I've started to first play TRs around 15 months ago.
....so, in the spirit of sharing information, to our aspiring new TR players, I would like to say...
Stop Playing Executioners
No, seriously. At this point, from what I've observed so far, it seems playing Execs simply mess up any prospect of actually getting better in the basics of TR tactics and maneuvers. It makes you lazy. It makes you just simplify every aspect of your TR gameplay by turning you into a lazy, skill-less suicide bomber. Yes, you heard me. The way you people are playing the TRs, you're not so different from those idiots strapping bombs to their chest and then go for a 1-shot kill.
Your reliance on the overbuffed LB often gives you very easy kills against the unprepared and inexperienced, so you start thinking you've got skill. And then of course, after pulling the plug to detonate, you hope to cheat death by running away in a straigh line using 4 dodges and then stealthing to the nearest heal potion spawn... you repeat this and this gives you 20 kills, so you think you're playing the TR well, right?
WRONG.
The basics of TRs are with defense. It's how much you can maximize your options to stay put and keep enemies at bay and CONTEST A NODE. Any idiot can do the suicide-bomber. Strap on LB with an Exec build, run straight to the nearest enemy in sight, push the button and KABOOM! run straight away and hope to survive. You call this skill? I call it "firing a guided missile". Every moment you spend outside of combat by having to run away, every moment you waste by lurking around the 2nd floor of Rivenscar or the bridgeways of Hotenow and gobbling up heal pots with every 1 kill you make, is potential that is wasted.
In essence, when you do this without contesting a node, you aren't helping the team at all. All you're doing is using your teammates as meatshields and distractions for your own kills. Instead of helping the team, you hurt the team by not doing your job. You're a leech.
Let me tell this to all aspiring TR wannabes right now, that YOUR EXECUTIONERS SUCK. So I recommend you, stop using that useless thing which misleads you to abandon your job as a TR in PvP. Practice the basics before you think of kills. A TR that gets 1 kill / 20 deaths is far superior to a TR who gets 20 kills / 1 deaths, if the score of the former was a result of trying to backcap nodes all the time, while the score of the latter was the "free-roaming" idiot executioners.
Know Your Job
A TR has either of two jobs in PvP.
(A) either you are a combat TR offering direct combat assistance to your teammates at mid, or...
(B) you are a backcapper, disrupting enemy scoring and maneuvers
This means you are either always at the mid node, or always at the opponent's back node. If you are at neither place, then you're of no help the team, and simply a leech.
If you're the combat TR, then you stick with your team at the mid node and fight it off. If all you can do is try that LB, and then just run all the way behind in search for a heal pot, then you're not a combat TR. You're a leech.
If you're at the opponent's back node, take it for once, but then you simply run straight away after failing a LB attempt and abandon the node for the enemies to retake it, then you're not a backcapper. You're a leech.
Us TRs, and our killing power, our agility and methods of self defense, is only meaningful under the premise that it helps domination of the nodes by aggressive contesting to hinder enemy scoring. Every kill you get by chasing off-node enemies, every time you go for heal pots during such foolishness, every moment spent roaming around as if domination was some open-world PvP scene, is time you have wasted, and time you've only hurt the team rather than help it. Number of kills/scoring doesn't mean anything if you lose the match. If you think you are a superior TR, then you're always at the backcap node, or at mid clearing enemies. If the team does not have two TRs to do each of the mentioned TR job in domination, then your priority is backcapping.
Fail to do this, and you're TR wannabes. You aren't TRs. Don't you forget this, padawans
I still find it odd how some people will have different notions of what one should be doing in a match. A had a situation earlier where I was holding the enemy node. The enemy was doubling up on me but they were coming at me staggered so that I was basically able to keep them both dead and the node in our control (with some moments of it in contest). Because I was frequently dispatching two of the enemy I was scoring a lot of kills and because our team was somehow managing to lose I ended up being the one blamed with our defeat.
The others felt that I should abandon the enemy node and go to mid and then go back later and retake the enemy node but in my situation the two I was keeping handled were strong enough that if I would not be able to do the same with them both at the same time and as badly as the rest of the group seemed to be doing I could see no advantage in my shifting -- even though we were losing with me staying. I felt that the best chance of a turn around lay in their constant one man advantage with the remaining enemy and that they should act en masse instead of me shifting and turning the other two loose. I had not quite experienced a situation like that so I wonder what others think may have been the best choice (obviously we lost with my choice but also one left the group about the halfway point)?
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
I still find it odd how some people will have different notions of what one should be doing in a match. A had a situation earlier where I was holding the enemy node. The enemy was doubling up on me but they were coming at me staggered so that I was basically able to keep them both dead and the node in our control (with some moments of it in contest). Because I was frequently dispatching two of the enemy I was scoring a lot of kills and because our team was somehow managing to lose I ended up being the one blamed with our defeat.
The others felt that I should abandon the enemy node and go to mid and then go back later and retake the enemy node but in my situation the two I was keeping handled were strong enough that if I would not be able to do the same with them both at the same time and as badly as the rest of the group seemed to be doing I could see no advantage in my shifting -- even though we were losing with me staying. I felt that the best chance of a turn around lay in their constant one man advantage with the remaining enemy and that they should act en masse instead of me shifting and turning the other two loose. I had not quite experienced a situation like that so I wonder what others think may have been the best choice (obviously we lost with my choice but also one left the group about the halfway point)?
Don't you love it when weak players expect you to carry them the entire game...
Kill your enemies then come kill their enemies.
Rinse and repeat.
It was not your fault.
They probably had bad encounters slotted and not much experience vs whoever or whatever class they were fighting.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
I still find it odd how some people will have different notions of what one should be doing in a match. A had a situation earlier where I was holding the enemy node. The enemy was doubling up on me but they were coming at me staggered so that I was basically able to keep them both dead and the node in our control (with some moments of it in contest). Because I was frequently dispatching two of the enemy I was scoring a lot of kills and because our team was somehow managing to lose I ended up being the one blamed with our defeat.
The others felt that I should abandon the enemy node and go to mid and then go back later and retake the enemy node but in my situation the two I was keeping handled were strong enough that if I would not be able to do the same with them both at the same time and as badly as the rest of the group seemed to be doing I could see no advantage in my shifting -- even though we were losing with me staying. I felt that the best chance of a turn around lay in their constant one man advantage with the remaining enemy and that they should act en masse instead of me shifting and turning the other two loose. I had not quite experienced a situation like that so I wonder what others think may have been the best choice (obviously we lost with my choice but also one left the group about the halfway point)?
lol...you gave them a 4-3 advantage the entire match on the other nodes and they were mad at you for them not being able to take advantage of it. I am one to say stuff during matches. Like I get a 1v2 or 3 going on the enemy node for a good two or three minutes and I see the other nodes are either red or contested the whole time and its like, "wtf guys, you have a 4-2 advantage on the other nodes, how are you not taking them???"
TR job = back cap and give the team the advantage of superior numbers on the other nodes. If there are other TR's, the off-TR can float with 2 as his priority.
I still find it odd how some people will have different notions of what one should be doing in a match.
It's because they don't know the difference between means and the end.
Anyone who has a healthy reading comprehension would realize from the start this entire thread is dedicated to criticizing TR players who have no bearing as to what role they should play in a domination match, and they happen to be executioners. Did I say all execs are like this? Did I say execs can't play the domination role of a TR should play? Nope. Never have I said such a thing.
I simply mentioned these TR players in question are using executioners, because they are so engrossed with killing enemies and thinking those 10-something, 20-something kills are an indicator of good TR play, that they fail to understand killing enemies is but a means to the end -- winning the match. If that purpose of all those kills don't connect up with winning the match by control of nodes, then its useless.
I'm a new Executioner and live at the enemy home node, but I also head for a pot if I'm nearly dead. Even if they cap the node when I'm gone, it is only a few seconds later that it stops ticking when I return to it. I'd rather let them have the node red for 5 seconds while I'm getting a pot than have it red for 10 - 30 seconds while I'm waiting to re-spawn and run back across the map.
Added bonus is that on two out of three matches it takes 2 - 3 people to take the node from me, so if I can force 2 - 3 players to cap a node while I get a pot, it is still a win for my team - if they are smart - as we then have numerical superiority at the other two nodes.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Since mod5, so many TRs -- or rather, "TR Wannabes" in all different level/skill ranges of PvP that its not hard to see the great buffs in this latest mod have drawn the interest of many players, both old and new. Okay, this is a good thing. A lot of players like the class.
But then again, here's the bad part: I don't think I have ever seen a mod with so many TR players being so absolutely clueless as to what they are supposed to do in domination. I've used this expression before, but in almost every match, the endless stream of TRs we get are simply lacking in so many ways, compared to the days when I've started to first play TRs around 15 months ago.
....so, in the spirit of sharing information, to our aspiring new TR players, I would like to say...
Stop Playing Executioners
No, seriously. At this point, from what I've observed so far, it seems playing Execs simply mess up any prospect of actually getting better in the basics of TR tactics and maneuvers. It makes you lazy. It makes you just simplify every aspect of your TR gameplay by turning you into a lazy, skill-less suicide bomber. Yes, you heard me. The way you people are playing the TRs, you're not so different from those idiots strapping bombs to their chest and then go for a 1-shot kill.
Your reliance on the overbuffed LB often gives you very easy kills against the unprepared and inexperienced, so you start thinking you've got skill. And then of course, after pulling the plug to detonate, you hope to cheat death by running away in a straigh line using 4 dodges and then stealthing to the nearest heal potion spawn... you repeat this and this gives you 20 kills, so you think you're playing the TR well, right?
WRONG.
The basics of TRs are with defense. It's how much you can maximize your options to stay put and keep enemies at bay and CONTEST A NODE. Any idiot can do the suicide-bomber. Strap on LB with an Exec build, run straight to the nearest enemy in sight, push the button and KABOOM! run straight away and hope to survive. You call this skill? I call it "firing a guided missile". Every moment you spend outside of combat by having to run away, every moment you waste by lurking around the 2nd floor of Rivenscar or the bridgeways of Hotenow and gobbling up heal pots with every 1 kill you make, is potential that is wasted.
In essence, when you do this without contesting a node, you aren't helping the team at all. All you're doing is using your teammates as meatshields and distractions for your own kills. Instead of helping the team, you hurt the team by not doing your job. You're a leech.
Let me tell this to all aspiring TR wannabes right now, that YOUR EXECUTIONERS SUCK. So I recommend you, stop using that useless thing which misleads you to abandon your job as a TR in PvP. Practice the basics before you think of kills. A TR that gets 1 kill / 20 deaths is far superior to a TR who gets 20 kills / 1 deaths, if the score of the former was a result of trying to backcap nodes all the time, while the score of the latter was the "free-roaming" idiot executioners.
Know Your Job
A TR has either of two jobs in PvP.
(A) either you are a combat TR offering direct combat assistance to your teammates at mid, or...
(B) you are a backcapper, disrupting enemy scoring and maneuvers
This means you are either always at the mid node, or always at the opponent's back node. If you are at neither place, then you're of no help the team, and simply a leech.
If you're the combat TR, then you stick with your team at the mid node and fight it off. If all you can do is try that LB, and then just run all the way behind in search for a heal pot, then you're not a combat TR. You're a leech.
If you're at the opponent's back node, take it for once, but then you simply run straight away after failing a LB attempt and abandon the node for the enemies to retake it, then you're not a backcapper. You're a leech.
Us TRs, and our killing power, our agility and methods of self defense, is only meaningful under the premise that it helps domination of the nodes by aggressive contesting to hinder enemy scoring. Every kill you get by chasing off-node enemies, every time you go for heal pots during such foolishness, every moment spent roaming around as if domination was some open-world PvP scene, is time you have wasted, and time you've only hurt the team rather than help it. Number of kills/scoring doesn't mean anything if you lose the match. If you think you are a superior TR, then you're always at the backcap node, or at mid clearing enemies. If the team does not have two TRs to do each of the mentioned TR job in domination, then your priority is backcapping.
Fail to do this, and you're TR wannabes. You aren't TRs. Don't you forget this, padawans.
cmon man, u judge so hard.. me myself choose Exec TR.. with just 12k GS, i help my team win a lot n i kill a lot to at pvp.. there isnt any problem so far.. all my fellow TR friends, no matter u choose Exec or Scoud, both can be the best.. just choose u like the most.. have fun
I'm a new Executioner and live at the enemy home node, but I also head for a pot if I'm nearly dead. Even if they cap the node when I'm gone, it is only a few seconds later that it stops ticking when I return to it. I'd rather let them have the node red for 5 seconds while I'm getting a pot than have it red for 10 - 30 seconds while I'm waiting to re-spawn and run back across the map.
Added bonus is that on two out of three matches it takes 2 - 3 people to take the node from me, so if I can force 2 - 3 players to cap a node while I get a pot, it is still a win for my team - if they are smart - as we then have numerical superiority at the other two nodes.
I think as long as you keep at least 2 opponents on that back node and don't let them cap it for long, its ok. My experience is that the real issue becomes when both teams know what they are doing and you have a tr from each team on the back node along with two players from the other team on that same node (their base node). It leaves two from each team to contest/dominate 2. Likely a dc and and another tr. This is what I have seen in guild premades.
That kind of set up can lead to a match that lasts over an hour and that is when you really need to be careful about running for a pot. You really don't want to have to do that because in those matches those odd seconds where the back node remains red/uncontested is what makes the final difference on the scoreboard for the win/loss.
- You deathmatching/kill-only TR's are cancer and should leave the game because you're doing nothing but hindering the whole team.
I hate having one or two in my team with a strong passion... and if I have one or two in the OPPOSITE team, I know victory is ours, because the kid comes... his attack does what? 3K on me? Then I laugh and 1-rotation him and move on.
Seriously Deathmatching TR's, play smart because you're as dumb as roar-tard GWF's, at least roar-tards were useful to the team.
Beta player
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
Comments
I pity you and your dyslexia.
Still not acknowledging the Jan 2015 join date comment huh?
Beats the shi* out of being a useless executioner.
The whole point of this thread is to preach that it is ok to be arrogant, treat differing opinions pointless, treat everybody else useless.
Hmm, doesn't make you any different from those "useless executioners" you hated so much.
I don't disagree and I can understand the frustration of an investment in a class that many newer/poopy players can jump right into and abuse the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of it, giving the class a bad name for everyone else.
Bad play is bad, no matter how you wish to twist and turn that fact with your implied imagery of this bullchit political correctness you're trying to push. Executioners that linger outside the nodes for personal kills have no excuse at all. By giving up backcapping they're already doing much less than what a TR is expected to do in a match, which means the only way they make up for the deficit is by at least making it sure that mid-node 2 is always covered by friendlies.
But of course, these half-with execs can't even do that. They usually don't even know which classes the primary targets are, and with their idiot kill fixation proceed to stab an opponent who is already neutralized and not much of a threat.
...
If you don't understand what this means -- as it clearly seems to be the case -- I've no choice but to simply assume you're just another clueless TR with no idea at all how domination works. *shrug*
You just assumed that I'm clueless without considering that I might not be one of those kamikaze TRs or that I might have won more domination matches than you. Makes me wonder why someone who calls himself master still queues in pug pvp, and gets frustrated like a spoiled brat over things that only happen in pugs. Still not done with the pvp campaign?
As I stated earlier, there are lot's of ways to play TR. Some ways (and the most popular ones these days) suck big time, but your is not the only good way. You're generalizing every other alternative to your idea as stupid and those that disagree with you are clueless.
This level of arrogance is what makes me hate those kill/death fanatic TRs and this thread all the same.
This is just a whiny hate thread, started by an arrogant sob who probably only experienced mod5 pvp.
That's interesting. So you're basically denying at face-value the basic methods of how TRs are to be played in domination which has been tried, tested, and set forth in the current form by hundreds of TRs since day1 of Domination in this game.
It's all quite nice and dandy, except the fact that your "different ways to play it" are simply based on empty words. I dare you to prove it.
Says who, You?
You do remember that TR Paragon Feats were overhauled in Mod 5, do you? All TRs got free Feat respec and that SoD exploit only became possible post-Mod5. Come mod 6 and things will probably change again, especially with the TR nerfs and DR boosts for all classes.
If you think that choice of paragon feats shouldn't affect your play style, then you're the one who's absolutely clueless.
You're the type of guy that asks around zone chat for "best build for TR", "best artifact for TR", and follow cookie cutter builds to the letter when you were a lowbie aren't you? (LoL, and somebody told you that WK Sabo is the only useful build)
You hang around Thieves Den quite often, go use the search feature.
That's not an answer. As a matter of fact its pretty easy to conclude that you don't have one in the first place, since your entire response from the start is simply a reactionary response as a (assumingly) terribad executioner.
I mean, TRs are either combat TRs or backcappers. If it's not one of these, then what is it? Is it so hard to explain at least?
If its not just a fancy way of saying "I don't do my part in PvP, and most of what I do is leech kills by using my teammates as meatshields" then hey, by all means, I welcome it. Share with us. Every TR player would welcome to learn something new, so long as it is proven viable.
So just treat me like your regular classroom dunce and explain -- since whatever this 'new way of playing TRs' is that I might have seen recently, to me, looked exactly like what the old-time TRs would describe as "terribad TR play" -- which, the end result being the team LOSING.
No backcapping/contesting, no score disruption, no luring enemies into their backnode, spending more than half the playtime running away while destealthed and running up and down the 2nd floor/bridge level to gobble up heal pots... not even worthy as combat TRs since they're never around fights where they are needed, can't do anything except waiting the 20nd intervals for LB... instead of targeting their DCs and CWs stealing kills from others by attacking an enemy that's already mostly suppressed.... oh wow, geez, I wonder just how any of this type of nubby gameplay is supposed to become a 'new style of TR play'.
Am I arrogant in pointing out what's stupid as stupid? Perhaps it's not stupid then. Perhaps some genius executioner TR player can explain to me what the whole point of all of above is, since I for one, cannot understand this at all.
Backcapping and Direct combat assistance is not exclusive to saboteurs and scoundrels.
Both glass cannon and reflect executioner builds can do this. But you wouldn't care would you?
"The one true build is a permagay wk"
wk is and always will be the inferior paragon
regards
Because it does not have the OP ItC? Honestly, if they get rid of that power, there would not be this many nerfing TR threads since release of this game.
In my opinion, it is not about what tree players choose to play, it is about how to play and contribute the most to win a match. While TR is one of the best classes to backcapping, players should be flexible and adapt to the flow of the match. For example, just because TR is excel at backcapping, they should not only do backcapping forever, but also help to defend home or mid or keep other backcappers on their toes (if it is necessary).
I have seen some sabo literally camping enemy node from the start to the end of the match, killing anyone contesting, but never helping teammates to defend middle even when there is no one contesting at their camping node. That is an inflexible and selfish play style.
Dyslexia strikes again.
Read the posts again, and maybe this time you're dim brain will input the fact that I've clearly laid down on just what kind of play style is being under criticism here.
Friggin' talk about strawman arguments. :rolleyes:
Besides, you still haven't told us just what that 'different style of play' is. When we gonna get a glimpse of what you're talking about?
I agree..being flexible and adapting to the flow of the match, imo, is far more important than having every TR to just backcapping..Notice how top premades play and you see one major consistency in game play, which is how well they assist. Also, having a TR go to mid for sole purpose of "baiting" some of the opposing team members to chase them away from mid allows your team an advantage in #'s, making it easier to take mid and spreading out the opposing team. Having said this, depending on the team you're queued with, and if falling behind, then backcapping is necessary to try to catch up in the match. What get's me is when the match starts, and you see 3 of your 5 teammates run right to your own point, while the other team is capping mid or capping both with 4 at mid and 1 at their pt. In this scenario, most times, you've already lost the match from the start, unless playing against a very weak opposing team.
I played two styles, 50% of these games were played in the "Roamer/Deathmatch/Kill-Only" style TR that OP describes, whereas the other 50% of the games was played with a Perma-Stealth build and backcapping the bases, here are the results.
Roamer Style
Perma-Stealth Style
All of these games were played on the exact same account, using a re-spec between Executioner 1-shot wonder (Glass-Cannon) and Saboteur build with moderate HP.
So people, please stop playing 1-shot wonders and help your team, winning is more important than your KDR that nobody cares about.
regards
My point in all of this is that playstyle is wayyy more important than build, where trickster rogue is concerned. Every path is viable in pvp with the correct playstyle.
Including MI Exe.
So what is the counter-point? To me a productive discussion would be: "Hey I do great backcapping with my mi exec" then someone else says, "well it is a viable build for that purpose but not as effective as this other build and here is why".
I laid out how a MI Exe is an awesome back capping build. I even baited that by describing how you dominate nodes as a combat rogue more so than just troll them perma style. No one is biting. I hate playing troll tr. I get on that node and dare the other team to knock me off. Contesting a node in a 1v2 or more you have to acknowledge that a good k/d ratio is key to actually dominating the node its self, generating more points than just trolloling it. No? School me, I want to learn.
Last but not least, why does a mi exe have to be a glass cannon? That build can be made tanky as hell.
btw this thread is making me want to pull my tr back off the shelf. Really one of the most enjoyable classes in both pve and pvp, in small doses. I would kill to have consistently challenging matches/dungeons/HE's and a regular competent team.
I play executioner. I win matches, Perma stealth is lame
Jesus god, ok good point. Spell out your creative new tr playstyle that is so effective. I don't doubt that one exists but at least detail what it is. The tr whos priority is k/d over match wins is a fail tr. How could anyone argue with that? With some hyperbole thrown in, the "priority is to win period", is what I take as the point of the OP. It is an immutable point. Play to win. Are you saying that point is wrong or are you saying there are other paths to the same goal? Again, spell them out. This could be a productive thread or just a lot of epeen sword fighting.
The others felt that I should abandon the enemy node and go to mid and then go back later and retake the enemy node but in my situation the two I was keeping handled were strong enough that if I would not be able to do the same with them both at the same time and as badly as the rest of the group seemed to be doing I could see no advantage in my shifting -- even though we were losing with me staying. I felt that the best chance of a turn around lay in their constant one man advantage with the remaining enemy and that they should act en masse instead of me shifting and turning the other two loose. I had not quite experienced a situation like that so I wonder what others think may have been the best choice (obviously we lost with my choice but also one left the group about the halfway point)?
Don't you love it when weak players expect you to carry them the entire game...
Kill your enemies then come kill their enemies.
Rinse and repeat.
It was not your fault.
They probably had bad encounters slotted and not much experience vs whoever or whatever class they were fighting.
lol...you gave them a 4-3 advantage the entire match on the other nodes and they were mad at you for them not being able to take advantage of it. I am one to say stuff during matches. Like I get a 1v2 or 3 going on the enemy node for a good two or three minutes and I see the other nodes are either red or contested the whole time and its like, "wtf guys, you have a 4-2 advantage on the other nodes, how are you not taking them???"
TR job = back cap and give the team the advantage of superior numbers on the other nodes. If there are other TR's, the off-TR can float with 2 as his priority.
It's because they don't know the difference between means and the end.
Anyone who has a healthy reading comprehension would realize from the start this entire thread is dedicated to criticizing TR players who have no bearing as to what role they should play in a domination match, and they happen to be executioners. Did I say all execs are like this? Did I say execs can't play the domination role of a TR should play? Nope. Never have I said such a thing.
I simply mentioned these TR players in question are using executioners, because they are so engrossed with killing enemies and thinking those 10-something, 20-something kills are an indicator of good TR play, that they fail to understand killing enemies is but a means to the end -- winning the match. If that purpose of all those kills don't connect up with winning the match by control of nodes, then its useless.
Added bonus is that on two out of three matches it takes 2 - 3 people to take the node from me, so if I can force 2 - 3 players to cap a node while I get a pot, it is still a win for my team - if they are smart - as we then have numerical superiority at the other two nodes.
cmon man, u judge so hard.. me myself choose Exec TR.. with just 12k GS, i help my team win a lot n i kill a lot to at pvp.. there isnt any problem so far.. all my fellow TR friends, no matter u choose Exec or Scoud, both can be the best.. just choose u like the most.. have fun
I think as long as you keep at least 2 opponents on that back node and don't let them cap it for long, its ok. My experience is that the real issue becomes when both teams know what they are doing and you have a tr from each team on the back node along with two players from the other team on that same node (their base node). It leaves two from each team to contest/dominate 2. Likely a dc and and another tr. This is what I have seen in guild premades.
That kind of set up can lead to a match that lasts over an hour and that is when you really need to be careful about running for a pot. You really don't want to have to do that because in those matches those odd seconds where the back node remains red/uncontested is what makes the final difference on the scoreboard for the win/loss.
- You deathmatching/kill-only TR's are cancer and should leave the game because you're doing nothing but hindering the whole team.
I hate having one or two in my team with a strong passion... and if I have one or two in the OPPOSITE team, I know victory is ours, because the kid comes... his attack does what? 3K on me? Then I laugh and 1-rotation him and move on.
Seriously Deathmatching TR's, play smart because you're as dumb as roar-tard GWF's, at least roar-tards were useful to the team.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)