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Module 5 Results: PvP Class Survey
zeusom
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
We conducted an community wide pvp survey of the strength/weakness of different classes in 7 different categories. The original idea was developed in this thread and the survey was conducted in this thread.
The survey reached over 100 respondents already - fantastic. There are at least 10 full responses for each class. Since there seem to be a few more outlier votes trickling in, I decided to process now. I exported the survey data into a template, removed the few outlier votes and averaged the rest. The results look terrific and by and large very accurate. The survey will stay open just to see what happens and allow more to take it if they want. But these are the results that will go into NW wiki after any minor adjustments that might come out of open discussion here.
RESULTS TABLE (link):
http://i.imgur.com/SYlkWcD.png
(If the image is too small to read try the zoom or CTRL+mousescroll to adjust.)
I put the results in a template for 2D Bar graph and am posting these pics below for all of the classes.
The scale is from 0.5 to 5 (0.5 = Lowest/very poor, 5 = highest/excellent)
Thanks to all - a Community Success!
The survey reached over 100 respondents already - fantastic. There are at least 10 full responses for each class. Since there seem to be a few more outlier votes trickling in, I decided to process now. I exported the survey data into a template, removed the few outlier votes and averaged the rest. The results look terrific and by and large very accurate. The survey will stay open just to see what happens and allow more to take it if they want. But these are the results that will go into NW wiki after any minor adjustments that might come out of open discussion here.
RESULTS TABLE (link):
http://i.imgur.com/SYlkWcD.png
(If the image is too small to read try the zoom or CTRL+mousescroll to adjust.)
I put the results in a template for 2D Bar graph and am posting these pics below for all of the classes.
The scale is from 0.5 to 5 (0.5 = Lowest/very poor, 5 = highest/excellent)
Thanks to all - a Community Success!
Post edited by zeusom on
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http://i.imgur.com/2RK3xpf.png
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
http://i.imgur.com/rCbES5S.png
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
http://i.imgur.com/KJS3C1D.png
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Almost all of the votes in each and every category were tightly clustered around one or two scores with only a few exceptions (where voting was more spread out). The accuracy of the overall picture in terms of relative and absolute class balance is not perfect but it is very, very good. Survey results really nail down exactly 'where we were' Mod5 in terms of class balance pvp.
An objective observer looking at this and never played the game might say the GF/GWF may be closest to truly balanced, the CW is somewhat overpowered, the HR, TR, and DC looks way overpowered, and the SW is way underpowered. Two basic fix options might be to (a) make the SW/GF/GWF as supercharged and strong as the TR/HR/DC/CW or (b) to adjust all classes to the more moderate balanced level of the GF/GWF in PvP. Option (a) supercharge all classes results in more cracked out one-shot god-mode blitz wildwest duel style pvp matches similar to what we have now but even more so. Option (b) adjust classes more to GF/GWF level results in more measured and paced battles and matches but emerging with the more importance of cooperation, teamwork, composition diversity, subtlety, and tactic.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Now let's hope some of the devs happen to read it. :^/
I'd have another idea for modulating the classes: Put different amounts of stats on their PvP gear. Inherently strong classes get lower totals (maybe at a lower price) and weaker classes would get buffed gear - at normal prices. The problem here is, however, what to do when a rework of a class comes out.
Here is my warlock's reaction to mod5 class balance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47M8lpFeYww
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
Also, how come they can solo node effectively? Is it true in highest tier of pvp? This is because i cant do this solo stuff in pvp, always being knocked out of astral shield and cc-ed down in a few seconds. I really dont believe a dps dc can effectively solo a node against 3 or more ppl. This is ridiculously fake and untrue unless with a huge gear gap, which normally do not exist.
For AC faithful DC, why the cc rating is so high? Can someone enlighten me why a healing DC with BoH and AS slotted, leaving a last encounter slot can still reach this cc rating?? The fixed Sunburst?? Just with this encounter we are slightly lower than CW in cc rating, what a ridiculous joke!!
Please someone explain these stuff to me. I really cannot accept this poll for DC.
Small sample size, based on perception. Neat though.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Looking back at raw survey data for the dps DC, the vote clustering is in pretty tight agreement except for in the solo noding category (and opinions on mobility are kind of scattered also). This suggests people have different experiences with ability of their dps DC to hold a node solo, maybe depends on their loadout or other build factors.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
just slot chains of blazing light and you get 4 cc's effectively. and alos in end game pvp dc's can take on 5 or more people at once. ive seen it. ive seen 10 people struggle to take on a faithful dc in end game. but that dc was geared. and my toon isnt bad geared either.
You have no idea what you're talking about, at all.
Stick to saving up for your account wide mount and playing PVE so you don't embarass yourself further.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
IMHO that is the 25k V/F DC vs. 3,4,5 15k PUGs - and no CW among them. Nothing "endgame", vs. eqGS that's not possible. So that's quite an extreme and rare situation... ...actually similar to DC soloing in the first place, which probably will ever only happen if you have three DCs on one team. Their destiny is to be at node 2, where they can act out their strength - support - on the greatest number of teammates.
Survivability : 3
(with the broken unstoppable and defense, probably lower than 3)
Dmg burst: 2-3
Dmg overall: 1-2
(Sentinel got the lowest dmg of ALL classes,Destroyer with luck 3-4)
Mobility: -3
(There is an ICD before stamina can refill,most ppl actually don't know this)
CC/Control: 0 (Control? with what ..stun, lol)
support:0
Solo node:1-2
You all say gwf have high DR%,Unstapple and so on.. BUT for what??
all this doesn't count, it's only visible like Cosmetics.
no matter how much DR or defense we have all simply get ignored.
I cant say i know the best for DC but many raw data i saw in the poll is basically against the DC mechanic and logic. DPS DC wont have the best mobility, burst damage, support ability and solo cap ability in pvp (even you only want to pick any two of these field, no means no !!). Those rating them max is basically trolls that dont main a DC in pvp. Correct me if i am wrong, TY.
AND to clarify here, chains is the most unreliable cc (or not even a cc) in pvp. It is just roots and those classes with range skills can still hit you (TR,CW,SW,GWF,GF,DC,HR.... Wait... did i include all classes?). Asides from the chains bug, which it will not function around 30% of the time, having 4 chains at the same time can be ignored with a sprint or block or dodge. How this skill can make a faithful DC 4.0+ in control?? Please stop spreading fake news TY.
1. He said 5 or more people, which means only in GG.
2. GG is filled with tons of TR nowadays.
3. All classes have at least a cc or knockback.
So either those 10 guys cast at least one cc and those 10 skills cannot even hit the cleric once or knock him out of circle
or
10 TRs failed to kill a DC with daze or extremely high burst damage
or
This situation never exists, the guy saying this is a troll.
I think it is the third situation, judging from his join date, 3 months old is very far from getting familiar in pvp.
Righteous survibility on this chart is rated WAY too high, I think people are confusing the paths a little... not that it matters now anyways. Righteous is dead in mod 6, due to the SB nerf, without it they cant attack a node long enough to survive and hit their crit dots, which has also taking a hit.
Thread does have sense if you look at it for what it is - averaged results from a survey. Squint your eyes and look at it with imaginary error bars of +/- 1 point and you'll see something very much like the truth.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
I dont think its that inaccurate, but it has some oddities, like the dc righteous chart.. it doesnt have the burst capability of say a TR or a Cw.. it does do really nice damage though, survibility is off the charts on that, its way off. People clearly confused the paths. your simply not that strong if going against your own average gear scores. In addition, not every TR line is exactly as balanced as those charts show, but it does reflect the overall feeling against the class.
GF conqueror dps seems a little high as well. If its a comparative charge against other classes, then its boinked a little.
However, overall, I would say they are 90% percent accurate, considering the data base it was mined from , its not a bad resemblance to the truth as it stands.
I think a +/- 10% is probably more likely, then the 1 you stated.
A good gwf conqueror can one combo pretty everything. Not saying its OP but for example is one of those class than with some luck can clear a hr and a tr in a blink. Pve wise sucks because its too much cooldown based. Put some red glyphs on and try ..whats the english fot it? Knees breakers maybe. I got joked to death by a friend with that
That's an accurate assessment I think.
Most of the standard deviations (voting spread) on the table are +/- 0.5 points except for a few which are closer to +/- 1.0 full point.
One error in the table:
Scoundrel TR support vote was averaged 1.8 (not 0.8) and this was one that had a +/- 1 point standard deviation.So people had mixed opinion on whether scoundrel TR provided support or not.
Curious since party heals/buffs seems a yes or no binary thing.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
TR Exe and Sabo Control/CC: Votes ranged 3.5 to 5.0. But people in agreement on very high CC for scoundrel.
TR Scoundrel Support:: Not sure why mixed on TR Sco support, range 0.5 to 2.5
CW Ren Survivability: Most votes were 3.0-3.5 but wide scatter around this
CW Ren solo node: Votes cluster from 2.0 to 3.5, still relatively tight though
DC DO Righteous dps: Support, mobility, and control all spread from 3.0 to 5.0.
DC AC Faithful heal: Mobility spread from 3.0 to 5.0, people not in agreement about how mobile a DC is.
GWF and GF: Voting was more scattered than for other classes but averages came out the same as highest vote concentrations. People were most mixed on both GWF types for how much burst damage and control/CC they had.
Those above had +/- errors close to 1.0 point,
All the rest had tight +/- error like 0.5 point.
Of over 100 categories, just a handful with wider spread is really good.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
TR easy changes: ITC no longer BREAKS CC. Knife's Edge Fixed. Class Balanced.
Now they will have very high Damage, Burst, Mobility, Moderate CC. Low Support and Low Survivability.
HR easy changes: Dont know enough about the class to fix this class.
This looks more like a poll. There is a difference between a survey and a poll.
Since I cant access the "survey" now, were any qualifying questions presented prior to other questions about the class?
This is neat and looking at it I do think people answered honestly.
But it can be misleading.
Also asking to be given to the devs by PVPers, changes will effect PVEers this MUST be taken into consideration.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
- TR, DC, and HR followed by CW (total scores range 20-24) are very strong supercharged classes Mod5, GF and GWF (total scores range 15-18) is moderate to okay and SW (total scores 10-12) is very weak. We all knew already.
- All 3 TR Master Infiltrator featpaths are very strong. Executioner has highest burst damage, Saboteur is the most mobile/survivable and also best all around node solo. Scoundrel shows highest CC but sacrafices some survivability.
- HR Stormwarden and Pathfinder paragons for Trapper are very close to equivalent, though Pathfinder may have slightly lower survivability and slightly higher damage than Stormwarden.
- CW SS renegade is slightly more survivable and offers more support/buffs than SS thaum but SS thaum offers slightly higher damage. Both are very strong but not quite as "supercharged" as TR/HR/DC.
- SW well both types of SW soublinder are poor to bad at just about everything except mobility and (fury) damage. The support (tempt) provide provides relatively weak support (Hellfire paragon SW is even less survivable).
- Damage (fury) SW, the total damage is much higher than burst damage because large portion of DoT tick damage and this is disadvantage over burst for pvp particularly when survivability is low.
- GWF IV Sentinel is somewhat stronger overall than IV Destroyer for pvp although both are close. Both are moderately effective melee damage classes but lack the dodge, CC, and mobility to compete the supercharged TR class.
- GF IV Conquerer has a moderate mix of everything except speed/mobility. The IV protector "turtle" variety can tank a single node and offers good party support buffs but does very little damage.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack