SoD is still messed up. Only procs off encounters.
As for gear they have changed pvp sets twice now. They said they were looking into set bonuses but they may not be out before launch. The translation of that is they dont have the time so they will release the bug riddled <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> they have ready and try to repair what they can, set bonuses being low on the priority list.
Most likely you will have your pve/pvp sets and they will add in set bonuses after the fact and youll change your gear again.
Actually THE issue here is really just TR getting 100% critical in stealth here. Again TR balancing is NOT that difficult TBH. Its pretty easy to make changes to TR without hurting PVE here is what is needed for balance:
1) Stealth provides a *100% critical strike chance NOT +100%. What this means is it doubles your crit chance. Have 30%? Its now 60% in stealth. Have 50%? Now its 100% in stealth. This reduces the OPness of it early on, still allows PVE TRs who CAN get near 50% crit to have 100% crit - thus hardly affecting PVE DPS at all. This balances PVP ALOT since now TRs cant just ignore crit since they get it for free, it actually benefits them more to stack more crit.
2) Stealth reduces movement speed by 20% as a BASE. TRs have so many good movement speed buffs that can easily make up for this, this also hardly affects PVE at all. If people are complaining due to pvp set bonuses and such, you can always extend the BASE duration of stealth by 1 second to "adjust" for this movement speed reduction - which actually HELPS PVE DPS but this movement speed reduction makes it MUCH more difficult for a TR to BOTH DPS AND avoid damage. Now they have to choose more carefully avoiding damage OR dealing damage but not both.
3) Lashing Blade - the "in stealth bonus" here should be a 75% REDUCED CD RATHER than 50% more severity. This BUFFS the "DPS" of the encounter but reduces the massive burst it offers.
I guess #4 would be fixing Knife's Edge so it only procs off the first attack OR even activation rather than hits. This removes the "insta reset" on encounters that TRs have with BB.
DONE. Buffed TR PVE DPS, adjusted burst damage and tankiness in PVP.
in other words, just remove TR class. #RIPTR :rolleyes:
It's more fun in the Philippines >:)
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tankinatorfrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 107Bounty Hunter
edited March 2015
This balances PVP ALOT since now TRs cant just ignore crit since they get it for free, it actually benefits them more to stack more crit.
No. Only sab can abuse of perma-crit. Other builds still need to stack crit (often more crit than other classes) and use this ability as a tool to improve the damage of their best attack. This would lead to a direct reduction of TR's damage in both PvE and PvP.
Because 3 crits from at-will mean nothing (stealth depletion).
2) Stealth reduces movement speed by 20% as a BASE
The modern bland of RPG about stealth is that it do not affect you speed the same way as before. Typical "D&D" derivated game have abandoned this mechanic. Base speed in stealth is the same as base speed, and there is often feat to improve speed in stealth. Neverwinter is just following the modern way of think. You need to live with your time. Games evolves. We can imagine reducing bonus, but the mechanic your talking about dissapear a little more every year.
3) Lashing Blade - the "in stealth bonus" here should be a 75% REDUCED CD RATHER than 50% more severity. This BUFFS the "DPS" of the encounter but reduces the massive burst it offers.
For PvP, high-lvl players don't use it, it is not efficient (long cooldown, easy to dodge, etc...). Only un-experimented player use it, and are successful only versus unexperimented players of others class.
For PvE, the interest of LB is not what you think. some power hit for more than half of the LB's damage and have half the cooldown of LB. LB is more a finish, or useful when you can't spam encounters on the target (for example a boss that will create AoE around him). In other word, your suggestion is to give to LB the role of others encounters. That is not a progress. I know that it can look counter-intuitive. Also, without crit and severity, LB do not worth it's long cooldown, if compared to others encounters.
Your suggestion is to kill the LB.
I guess #4 would be fixing Knife's Edge so it only procs off the first attack OR even activation rather than hits. This removes the "insta reset" on encounters that TRs have with BB.
TR have informed cryptic about this problem on day 1 of mod5, or at least on week 1. That's up to cryptic to correct it. The only thing we can do is not abusing it (assuming you face an honest TR).
I approve, this should had been fixed for weeks.
DONE. Buffed TR PVE DPS, adjusted burst damage and tankiness in PVP.
correction :
Done, nerfed TR PVE DPS, moved burst damage problem and corrected glitch.
By the way the new rank 61 encounter (can't remember the name) seams strange : the tooltip say that you are kinda "stealth" after using it, but it don't look to impact enemies.
If someone have information...
tankinatorfrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 107Bounty Hunter
edited March 2015
After changes to Scoundrel, which were not necessary, I'm willfully abusing the hell out of the Saboteur. My build is kind of out of whack so I play full WK support mode until I'm into mod 6. Not going to use a reroll.
I can understand you, indeed...
2. Whiners blaming permadaze on Scoundrels when its actually Saboteurs in near perma-stealth dazing opponents with impunity.
Peoples were complaining about perma-daze, and so, they were thinking it was the perma-daze tree. They were wrong, they will pay...
3. Other TRs are also abusing the hell
Some do, some don't
Panderus, dev team, please take another look at the Saboteur tree and return Scoundrels back to an approriate state. They were the most balanced TR yet.
+1
Also, please consider adjusting ItC or just ditch it altogether.
Since mod5, I am not MI for ItC anymore. It is now useless in PvE, and only a complete troll in PvP. I don't care about it anymore.
In agreement with the above two posts. The biggest problems with the TR were saboteurs easy perma/semi perma with precision dazing and very high damage, combine that with the MI and its ITC (as other stated unmatched in PvP but not particularly useful at all in PvE) and SE (again not particularly powerful in PvE but under the right situations and with the right path extremely powerful in PvP). I will absolutely be playing a saboteur in mod 6 as things stand now (but that isn't necessarily because of how they perform in mod 5 but because of the current nefs to the other paths on pts). One must look closer to identify the correct things causing issues and not simply assume that it is the most obvious (as an example you heard the complaints about dazes and you assumed it was the specialized daze path of TR and your nerf actually makes the specialized daze path worse at dazing than the other two paths and I am sure this is not what you intended).
I don't know if the sab can perma daze or not, but with the KE bug they sure have a lot of room to work with. SS from stealth, followup with smoke or dazing when needed, follow up with other when needed, BB, repeat.
Er... if you meant thanks to BB and KE bug + encounters (SS and SB) a sab can daze a target until he/she kills him/her, then, you are late, because is a bug long time proclaimed yet not fixed... BUT, again, if those players are clumsy enough to get, as you call it, "perma dazed" due they can not avoid SM, then, they deserve to be killed. So, to be clear, the problem here is not SS and SM, but BB + KE bug.
But, again, the problem with Scoundrel, not sab (but you can include them here due KE bug), is the fact that most of them can daze a target for more than 10 seconds, not counting that some of their dazes pierce through CC inmunities like Unstop as Sun Burst does or the damage buff they gets while hitting dazed targets. And is thanks to these 2/3 mechanics that makes the scoundrel tree that broken.
A scoundrel can and must set his capstone attack up for a long daze. If the target remains stationary during this or if the lead in is deft the scoundrel can generally capitalize on this action but it is not always a given and it does require at wills to extend this time and if you go the damage way of duelist you may blow it or you can go the sure way of CoS for less damage. This approach generally requires the scoundrel to have deft and either dazing or smoke slotted for the long daze to be reliable. That leaves either shadow strike or ITC or VP as the other choice and not having both shadow strike and ITC/VP greatly increases the vulnerability of the TR both before and after the long daze action. It is a seemingly reasonable risk versus reward situation and only viable in 1 v 1. Now it can be managed without deft and that retains the scoundrel the additional survivability but it reduces the chance of the long daze. Remember this long daze can lead to a 10 second total daze and requires a setup and is not guaranteed, the saboteur on the other hand can guarantee an 8 second total daze that requires no setup and retains survivability.
With the current nerf to scoundrel on pts, the same situation as above but with the scoundrel having to setup a 'long' 7 second daze compared to the saboteur being able to guarantee an 8 second daze.
I am unaware of any scoundrel daze penetrating unstopable, but then again I am not in the habit of fighting an unstoppable gwf. I am quite aware of any daze I throw at a gwf immediately being shrugged off to unstoppable unless I am patiently plotting and waiting for him to burn unstopable and not be sprinting. Has the daze through unstopable been reported as a bug?
I am unaware of any scoundrel daze penetrating unstopable, but then again I am not in the habit of fighting an unstoppable gwf. I am quite aware of any daze I throw at a gwf immediately being shrugged off to unstoppable unless I am patiently plotting and waiting for him to burn unstopable and not be sprinting. Has the daze through unstopable been reported as a bug?
It's not a bug, and it's not a daze. It's the undocumented interrupt function on dazing strike that goes through CC immunities and stops whatever action the target was taking, although it doesn't last.
It's basically the same thing that happens when you hit CC-immune targets like the cultist golems with DS -- it cancels their current action, but then the target immediately reactivates what it was doing. I used to cancel out golem actions all the time while doing ESoT, except then I realized most usually the rest of the team has no idea what I was doing, and it would screw up their dodge timing and get them killed, so I stopped doing it nowadays.
It's not a bug, and it's not a daze. It's the undocumented interrupt function on dazing strike that goes through CC immunities and stops whatever action the target was taking, although it doesn't last.
It's basically the same thing that happens when you hit CC-immune targets like the cultist golems with DS -- it cancels their current action, but then the target immediately reactivates what it was doing. I used to cancel out golem actions all the time while doing ESoT, except then I realized most usually the rest of the team has no idea what I was doing, and it would screw up their dodge timing and get them killed, so I stopped doing it nowadays.
Ah okay I was aware of the daze interrupt feature but I don't even know that I have ever used it on a GWF under unstopable or if I did I never recognized what happened. Does it stop and drain their interrupt or how does that interaction work?
Ah okay I was aware of the daze interrupt feature but I don't even know that I have ever used it on a GWF under unstopable or if I did I never recognized what happened. Does it stop and drain their interrupt or how does that interaction work?
I've been on the receiving end as a GWF. Whatever attack or action you do, even in unstoppable, it cancels it out. But unlike the old Roar-interrupt GWFs used in mod3, it doesn't linger around. It's an instantaneous interrupt at that moment only -- a slight annoyance, but nothing too serious.
For example, I push the button down for sure-strike combos while in Unstopable, if the TR hits DS, my attacks stop, I have to push the button again to reactivate. That's basically all. I'm not sure about this, but I think it also cancels out sprint, which might be a more serious threat to the GWFs if it really happens.
For the record, IMO I have no problems at all if this feature is removed. Its lame. i dunno why, but for some reason the devs didn't classify interrupts as CCs, and this is the reason why mod3 GWF roar used to ignore stuff like ITC or dodges, and I'll bet its probably why it goes through Unstoppable. This shouldn't be happening.
...
(ps) The frickin' irony here is that technically, I actually agree with most of the problems the GWFs players profess, and I actually do think the devs should have buffed them up and remove some of the over-nerfed features.
Unfortunately, instead of just asking for changes to their own classes, which I'd probably support, they tend to spill over to dissing TRs and TR players with this incredible amount of hatred and malintent, The amount of hatred they spew against us is simply vicious.
I mean, among most TR players who actually turn up in the forums regularly, like you, me, morenthar, etc etc.. all of us actually agree on many aspects of the TRs need nerfs. Maybe we're a bit defensive about scoundrels, but all the rest of the features (that effect TRs overall) we agree that there needs to be considerable balancing.
But man, these guys just don't care. Since we're TR-mains, they figure we should be putting up with any kind of verbal and behavioral abuse they put up with, and that's BS.
This feat is bugged on LIVE as well, Knife's Edge is proccing off ALL hits on Blood Bath literally instantly resetting ALL cooldowns.
This allows TRs to never die using ITC pre-BB then using BB in which we cant target them or deal damage, and then they can ITC after and re-stealth with encounters.
Isnt this supposed to just work on activating the daily? Not on each hit? But its activating on EACH hit of blood bath......
You asking for handicap match? TR one hand behind our back?
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tonyvincentMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 123Arc User
1) Stealth provides a *100% critical strike chance NOT +100%. What this means is it doubles your crit chance. Have 30%? Its now 60% in stealth. Have 50%? Now its 100% in stealth. This reduces the OPness of it early on, still allows PVE TRs who CAN get near 50% crit to have 100% crit - thus hardly affecting PVE DPS at all. This balances PVP ALOT since now TRs cant just ignore crit since they get it for free, it actually benefits them more to stack more crit.
2) Stealth reduces movement speed by 20% as a BASE. TRs have so many good movement speed buffs that can easily make up for this, this also hardly affects PVE at all. If people are complaining due to pvp set bonuses and such, you can always extend the BASE duration of stealth by 1 second to "adjust" for this movement speed reduction - which actually HELPS PVE DPS but this movement speed reduction makes it MUCH more difficult for a TR to BOTH DPS AND avoid damage. Now they have to choose more carefully avoiding damage OR dealing damage but not both.
3) Lashing Blade - the "in stealth bonus" here should be a 75% REDUCED CD RATHER than 50% more severity. This BUFFS the "DPS" of the encounter but reduces the massive burst it offers.
I guess #4 would be fixing Knife's Edge so it only procs off the first attack OR even activation rather than hits. This removes the "insta reset" on encounters that TRs have with BB.
DONE. Buffed TR PVE DPS, adjusted burst damage and tankiness in PVP.
Thumbs up for this. I think this would be better than what is currently on live.
|Aizu Wallenstein|
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tankinatorfrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 107Bounty Hunter
I can see your points here, and you do make good ones. just adding though as a player from australia with 280-380 ping usually (and occasionally some jitter), The change to lashing blade would be appreciated, as It's a fair bit harder to dodge with delay. especially with SW/GWF (due to not having a "dodge" skill)
tankinatorfrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 107Bounty Hunter
edited March 2015
rversant => I am in europe, I understand what you mean, even if my problems are not as important as yours.
The most simple solution -if we don't want to change the entire rogue and want the PvE TR to keep it's efficiency- would be to change the bonus from stealth. For example "this stealth mechanic is halved in PvP".
But for me, the best way to solve the problem is to revamp the entire rogue. This would allow to add a more efficient solution.
Example : add new damage mechanics, remove 100% crits from stealth and give back the old LB's stealth mechanic (aka 100% crit from stelaht).
This reduce the base damage, but would still allow those amazing numbers if the player play carefully (thanks to improvements on others abilities).
Please understand that I am speaking about reworking the way we gain damage buff, not removing them. The objective here would be to make it harder (position, combat advantage...), not strictly less important.
rversant => I am in europe, I understand what you mean, even if my problems are not as important as yours.
The most simple solution -if we don't want to change the entire rogue and want the PvE TR to keep it's efficiency- would be to change the bonus from stealth. For example "this stealth mechanic is halved in PvP".
But for me, the best way to solve the problem is to revamp the entire rogue. This would allow to add a more efficient solution.
Example : add new damage mechanics, remove 100% crits from stealth and give back the old LB's stealth mechanic (aka 100% crit from stelaht).
This reduce the base damage, but would still allow those amazing numbers if the player play carefully (thanks to improvements on others abilities).
Please understand that I am speaking about reworking the way we gain damage buff, not removing them. The objective here would be to make it harder (position, combat advantage...), not strictly less important.
I Never said your problems arent as important... I just said that its a reasonable change, less instant kill burst in mid tier pvp, and better dps In PvE. you yourself said its not used in high level because its unreliable. so whats wrong with changing it?
tankinatorfrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 107Bounty Hunter
edited March 2015
I Never said your problems arent as important...
That is not the point. I just say that I understand you, nothing else.
you yourself said its not used in high level because its unreliable. so whats wrong with changing it?
wrong, it is used in some situations.
In boss fight, it is often better to opt for a "massive-damage-dealer" encounter, and the reason is that we can't reliably plan to spam little attacks, the consequence being that we choose a massive burst damage from time to time. LB reload slowly but we stack incredible damage thanks to this power. If we want good damage with a short cool-down, we have efficient tool that do not require us to sacrifice stealth in order to get this cool-down. So, what would be the use of the suggestion you are approving ?
Allow us to use LB as an inefficient and more expensive (stealth is consumed) version of others encounters ?
This would simply make it useless, and there is already too much useless encounters in the TR's arsenal.
Reducing LB is not an efficient solution by it-self. It is a nerf, and cryptic had already tried to nerf, the consequence being one year of uselessness for TR. Then, we get a needed buff (even if not well-planed) and you want to nerf again ?
so whats wrong with changing it?
I give you an example of a possible modification to avoid it.
I've suggested to reduce efficiency in PvP only (we know it's possible) in order to leave PvE unaffected.
I've also stated that it would be more efficient to remove the most terrible features and replace them with new ones that would still allow efficient burst damage, and potentially a kill in one short rotation (but a hard to land rotation) of powers ; not insta-kill, but if you are not a really good player or don't have a team-mate to help you you are dead)
Also, to explain more in details my suggestion, a suggestion that you haven't understand, if I consider your answer :
LB had 100% crit thanks to stealth and 50% critical severity as a stealth bonus. If you remove the 100% crit from stealht (to every attack) and change back the LB's stealth mechanic to 100% crit from stealth, you still reduce the critical damage, reducing the burst damage from this particular power.
At the same time, you reduce others powers damage, witch lead to the necessity to add others boost to damage. In order to avoid the creation of a new "too efficient for the skill required" ultra-retributive mechanic, those new mechanics should be more about positioning your character before fight, choosing the right power for the right thing, play with your team-mates...
This still lead to what you are looking for, but unlike a simple reduction, it allow TR to keep it's actual efficiency (even if it need more skill) while not being so hard to handle for others players.
^ This, Everyone loses their set bonus, not just rogue, we already can have stealth basically perma uptime (which is something people complain about nonstop) so removing the stealth duration buff in PvP is a good thing.
also to those complaining about how "weak" exe is with SoD only on encounters, I can lashing blade from stealth then spam some CoS or flurry, and still burst someone for well over 50-100% of their HP. its just as stupid strong as ever.
1. As was said before, most experienced people wont be using lashing. (not in PvE nor in PvP)
2. This SoD change breaks the strongest PvE single target rotation (lurkers+DF), Making TR even more AoE class.
Giving one example where it works doesn't mean that it's "its just as stupid strong as ever. "
The SoD multiproc should have been fixed long time ago, but this looks like a hack-fix.
Knife's Edge: This feat still procs on each tick of Bloodbath, allowing TRs to fully recover all encounter powers after Bloodbath is finished. This bug allows TRs to have much better access to encounter powers than intended, particularly defensive powers like ITC and Shadow Strike, which makes it nearly impossible to kill them. This one bugged feat/power synergy is responsible for giving TRs vastly more survivability than they should have.
Shadowy Opportunity: This feat does far too much damage off of at-wills like Cloud of Steel. That the damage is piercing is also particularly devastating for classes that rely on high DR for their defense. Please consider toning down the damage Shadowy Opportunity does off of at-wills, making the damage proportional to the original damage inflicted rather than calculated separately (as HR Piercing Blade was changed), or make Shadowy Opportunity only proc off of encounter powers.
Consider to apply the same changes to storm spell. 20k procs ffs
So have I played scoundrel pretty much the whole of mod 5. For the new mod I respeced to MI sab. I can see why people complain about tr's. That is definitely the most cheese build of any toon in this game. I've been in fights with my sab that are just stupid. My first fight, still used to scoundrel. I was jumping around and dodging, my normal tactic when I was scoundrel to get the enemy to use their encounters and what not, I normally attack sporadically to keep them from getting to eager then bam, they died from I don't know what. I never even landed a solid hit yet the piercing damage killed him I guess.
That was the most un-enjoyable fight I've ever been in, I didn't even really aim, use timing or anything before he died. Why in the world someone would want to play that way, unless it's just to get top on the leaderboard. I have another TR 12k, I speced him into sab also to see the difference between him and my 17.3k tr (I have 12 characters, one or two of every class). Really, if you don't get over excited, you could easily have high KDA ratio. I could probably show my brother who is 8 how to get play the cheese build and he could probably make it page 1 (He sucks at video games but the sab MI tr, or sab in general was obviously for the people with now skill and alot of money).
If I had 22k+ gs, money would be what killed the enemy, because I can just run and jump around randomly smashing buttons, not really important if I get a solid hit or not, enough button smashing and the piercing damage will kill my opponent. My normal combo on scoundrel is deft strike, dazing strike, and then duelist furry, I pretty much canceled out my feats with dazing strike cause it's more effective to use immediately behind. My sab, same rotation, dazes for the same time but now I could do it all invisible with stupid damage being proced.
For me, if they scoundrel is really gone to the crapper because people most definitely were whining about the wrong tree, they wanted nerfed the tree that actually to skill and now the only viable builds are the 2 cheese trees. For at least a month, my sab is going on a murder spree before I retire him. For me, nodes will not exist, my only mission will be slaughter everyone with COS and Glooming Cut. I will be sure hunt the ones that say a single word about a tr in the pvp match. My mission will be solely to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> everyone off and have nightmares of the constant sound they will hear ringing in pvp of glooming cut because the one class and build that was actually fun to play that took some skill and timing got nerfed in place of the cheese trees. Oh how they will cry in pvp.
Comments
As for gear they have changed pvp sets twice now. They said they were looking into set bonuses but they may not be out before launch. The translation of that is they dont have the time so they will release the bug riddled <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> they have ready and try to repair what they can, set bonuses being low on the priority list.
Most likely you will have your pve/pvp sets and they will add in set bonuses after the fact and youll change your gear again.
Anyone else hear that flushing sound?
in other words, just remove TR class. #RIPTR :rolleyes:
Because 3 crits from at-will mean nothing (stealth depletion).
The modern bland of RPG about stealth is that it do not affect you speed the same way as before. Typical "D&D" derivated game have abandoned this mechanic. Base speed in stealth is the same as base speed, and there is often feat to improve speed in stealth. Neverwinter is just following the modern way of think. You need to live with your time. Games evolves. We can imagine reducing bonus, but the mechanic your talking about dissapear a little more every year.
For PvP, high-lvl players don't use it, it is not efficient (long cooldown, easy to dodge, etc...). Only un-experimented player use it, and are successful only versus unexperimented players of others class.
For PvE, the interest of LB is not what you think. some power hit for more than half of the LB's damage and have half the cooldown of LB. LB is more a finish, or useful when you can't spam encounters on the target (for example a boss that will create AoE around him). In other word, your suggestion is to give to LB the role of others encounters. That is not a progress. I know that it can look counter-intuitive. Also, without crit and severity, LB do not worth it's long cooldown, if compared to others encounters.
Your suggestion is to kill the LB.
TR have informed cryptic about this problem on day 1 of mod5, or at least on week 1. That's up to cryptic to correct it. The only thing we can do is not abusing it (assuming you face an honest TR).
I approve, this should had been fixed for weeks.
correction :
Done, nerfed TR PVE DPS, moved burst damage problem and corrected glitch.
By the way the new rank 61 encounter (can't remember the name) seams strange : the tooltip say that you are kinda "stealth" after using it, but it don't look to impact enemies.
If someone have information...
Peoples were complaining about perma-daze, and so, they were thinking it was the perma-daze tree. They were wrong, they will pay...
Some do, some don't
+1
Since mod5, I am not MI for ItC anymore. It is now useless in PvE, and only a complete troll in PvP. I don't care about it anymore.
A scoundrel can and must set his capstone attack up for a long daze. If the target remains stationary during this or if the lead in is deft the scoundrel can generally capitalize on this action but it is not always a given and it does require at wills to extend this time and if you go the damage way of duelist you may blow it or you can go the sure way of CoS for less damage. This approach generally requires the scoundrel to have deft and either dazing or smoke slotted for the long daze to be reliable. That leaves either shadow strike or ITC or VP as the other choice and not having both shadow strike and ITC/VP greatly increases the vulnerability of the TR both before and after the long daze action. It is a seemingly reasonable risk versus reward situation and only viable in 1 v 1. Now it can be managed without deft and that retains the scoundrel the additional survivability but it reduces the chance of the long daze. Remember this long daze can lead to a 10 second total daze and requires a setup and is not guaranteed, the saboteur on the other hand can guarantee an 8 second total daze that requires no setup and retains survivability.
With the current nerf to scoundrel on pts, the same situation as above but with the scoundrel having to setup a 'long' 7 second daze compared to the saboteur being able to guarantee an 8 second daze.
I am unaware of any scoundrel daze penetrating unstopable, but then again I am not in the habit of fighting an unstoppable gwf. I am quite aware of any daze I throw at a gwf immediately being shrugged off to unstoppable unless I am patiently plotting and waiting for him to burn unstopable and not be sprinting. Has the daze through unstopable been reported as a bug?
It's not a bug, and it's not a daze. It's the undocumented interrupt function on dazing strike that goes through CC immunities and stops whatever action the target was taking, although it doesn't last.
It's basically the same thing that happens when you hit CC-immune targets like the cultist golems with DS -- it cancels their current action, but then the target immediately reactivates what it was doing. I used to cancel out golem actions all the time while doing ESoT, except then I realized most usually the rest of the team has no idea what I was doing, and it would screw up their dodge timing and get them killed, so I stopped doing it nowadays.
Ah okay I was aware of the daze interrupt feature but I don't even know that I have ever used it on a GWF under unstopable or if I did I never recognized what happened. Does it stop and drain their interrupt or how does that interaction work?
I've been on the receiving end as a GWF. Whatever attack or action you do, even in unstoppable, it cancels it out. But unlike the old Roar-interrupt GWFs used in mod3, it doesn't linger around. It's an instantaneous interrupt at that moment only -- a slight annoyance, but nothing too serious.
For example, I push the button down for sure-strike combos while in Unstopable, if the TR hits DS, my attacks stop, I have to push the button again to reactivate. That's basically all. I'm not sure about this, but I think it also cancels out sprint, which might be a more serious threat to the GWFs if it really happens.
For the record, IMO I have no problems at all if this feature is removed. Its lame. i dunno why, but for some reason the devs didn't classify interrupts as CCs, and this is the reason why mod3 GWF roar used to ignore stuff like ITC or dodges, and I'll bet its probably why it goes through Unstoppable. This shouldn't be happening.
...
You asking for handicap match? TR one hand behind our back?
Thumbs up for this. I think this would be better than what is currently on live.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?831891-Official-Feedback-Thread-Trickster-Rogue-Cap-Raise&p=10331941&viewfull=1#post10331941
here I've explained why this wouldn't be as efficient as it might look. You can also refer to the 3 posts visible right after this one, they are also instructive.
I can see your points here, and you do make good ones. just adding though as a player from australia with 280-380 ping usually (and occasionally some jitter), The change to lashing blade would be appreciated, as It's a fair bit harder to dodge with delay. especially with SW/GWF (due to not having a "dodge" skill)
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
The most simple solution -if we don't want to change the entire rogue and want the PvE TR to keep it's efficiency- would be to change the bonus from stealth. For example "this stealth mechanic is halved in PvP".
But for me, the best way to solve the problem is to revamp the entire rogue. This would allow to add a more efficient solution.
Example : add new damage mechanics, remove 100% crits from stealth and give back the old LB's stealth mechanic (aka 100% crit from stelaht).
This reduce the base damage, but would still allow those amazing numbers if the player play carefully (thanks to improvements on others abilities).
Please understand that I am speaking about reworking the way we gain damage buff, not removing them. The objective here would be to make it harder (position, combat advantage...), not strictly less important.
I Never said your problems arent as important... I just said that its a reasonable change, less instant kill burst in mid tier pvp, and better dps In PvE. you yourself said its not used in high level because its unreliable. so whats wrong with changing it?
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
wrong, it is used in some situations.
In boss fight, it is often better to opt for a "massive-damage-dealer" encounter, and the reason is that we can't reliably plan to spam little attacks, the consequence being that we choose a massive burst damage from time to time. LB reload slowly but we stack incredible damage thanks to this power. If we want good damage with a short cool-down, we have efficient tool that do not require us to sacrifice stealth in order to get this cool-down. So, what would be the use of the suggestion you are approving ?
Allow us to use LB as an inefficient and more expensive (stealth is consumed) version of others encounters ?
This would simply make it useless, and there is already too much useless encounters in the TR's arsenal.
Reducing LB is not an efficient solution by it-self. It is a nerf, and cryptic had already tried to nerf, the consequence being one year of uselessness for TR. Then, we get a needed buff (even if not well-planed) and you want to nerf again ?
I give you an example of a possible modification to avoid it.
I've suggested to reduce efficiency in PvP only (we know it's possible) in order to leave PvE unaffected.
I've also stated that it would be more efficient to remove the most terrible features and replace them with new ones that would still allow efficient burst damage, and potentially a kill in one short rotation (but a hard to land rotation) of powers ; not insta-kill, but if you are not a really good player or don't have a team-mate to help you you are dead)
Also, to explain more in details my suggestion, a suggestion that you haven't understand, if I consider your answer :
LB had 100% crit thanks to stealth and 50% critical severity as a stealth bonus. If you remove the 100% crit from stealht (to every attack) and change back the LB's stealth mechanic to 100% crit from stealth, you still reduce the critical damage, reducing the burst damage from this particular power.
At the same time, you reduce others powers damage, witch lead to the necessity to add others boost to damage. In order to avoid the creation of a new "too efficient for the skill required" ultra-retributive mechanic, those new mechanics should be more about positioning your character before fight, choosing the right power for the right thing, play with your team-mates...
This still lead to what you are looking for, but unlike a simple reduction, it allow TR to keep it's actual efficiency (even if it need more skill) while not being so hard to handle for others players.
1. As was said before, most experienced people wont be using lashing. (not in PvE nor in PvP)
2. This SoD change breaks the strongest PvE single target rotation (lurkers+DF), Making TR even more AoE class.
Giving one example where it works doesn't mean that it's "its just as stupid strong as ever. "
The SoD multiproc should have been fixed long time ago, but this looks like a hack-fix.
Consider to apply the same changes to storm spell. 20k procs ffs
That was the most un-enjoyable fight I've ever been in, I didn't even really aim, use timing or anything before he died. Why in the world someone would want to play that way, unless it's just to get top on the leaderboard. I have another TR 12k, I speced him into sab also to see the difference between him and my 17.3k tr (I have 12 characters, one or two of every class). Really, if you don't get over excited, you could easily have high KDA ratio. I could probably show my brother who is 8 how to get play the cheese build and he could probably make it page 1 (He sucks at video games but the sab MI tr, or sab in general was obviously for the people with now skill and alot of money).
If I had 22k+ gs, money would be what killed the enemy, because I can just run and jump around randomly smashing buttons, not really important if I get a solid hit or not, enough button smashing and the piercing damage will kill my opponent. My normal combo on scoundrel is deft strike, dazing strike, and then duelist furry, I pretty much canceled out my feats with dazing strike cause it's more effective to use immediately behind. My sab, same rotation, dazes for the same time but now I could do it all invisible with stupid damage being proced.
For me, if they scoundrel is really gone to the crapper because people most definitely were whining about the wrong tree, they wanted nerfed the tree that actually to skill and now the only viable builds are the 2 cheese trees. For at least a month, my sab is going on a murder spree before I retire him. For me, nodes will not exist, my only mission will be slaughter everyone with COS and Glooming Cut. I will be sure hunt the ones that say a single word about a tr in the pvp match. My mission will be solely to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> everyone off and have nightmares of the constant sound they will hear ringing in pvp of glooming cut because the one class and build that was actually fun to play that took some skill and timing got nerfed in place of the cheese trees. Oh how they will cry in pvp.