I don't think Shadow Slip should be breaking CC. 100% deflect chance while it's active would be nice, though.
Just call me Rod. Member of Grievance! CW: Rodrant Turnbul TR: Rodran DC: Rodrat GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL Other GWF: Shieldrant HR: Bowdrant SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!) OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
Shadow Slip as CC breaker would be simply OP as it sounds, unless they would cut our stamina bar by like 4. Shadow slip and stealth would be kind of useless, I know where the rogues are even if they stealth. I simply hear them, besides if TRs lack knowledge and battle awareness, they can use CoS on you, they will track you by daggers floating in the air, which stuck in you. (visual bug I believe) Same with some other spells/powers of the other classes. So it's no use, unless those bugged visuals get fixed or those who actually play PvP well and know their task go blind. + DR and autodeflection while shadow slipping would be the first step into right direction IMO. After that the only last thing the class would need is some other defensive mechanism over shadow slip. For me it would be cool if the soul sparks we build as Soul Binders would:
1) Not expire within a couple of seconds after the battle has ended or your enemy simply ran away/hid in stealth for too long. After all, active soul sparks heal you for more then they would do after the battle. =/= logic?
2) Consume damage taken, similar to CW's shield. Based on our DR.
3) Build a little bit faster with the other encounters/at-wills. Gosh, even though ED is rather fast, it sometimes does 200 damage to TR deflecting it and like 600 on deflected crits (was using P.vorpal). I prerfer HoB over ED just because it does way more damage AND debuffs my opponent.
That's what would make my life as a Warlock easier.
Shadow Slip as CC breaker would be simply OP as it sounds, unless they would cut our stamina bar by like 4. Shadow slip and stealth would be kind of useless, I know where the rogues are even if they stealth. I simply hear them, besides if TRs lack knowledge and battle awareness, they can use CoS on you, they will track you by daggers floating in the air, which stuck in you. (visual bug I believe) Same with some other spells/powers of the other classes. So it's no use, unless those bugged visuals get fixed or those who actually play PvP well and know their task go blind. + DR and autodeflection while shadow slipping would be the first step into right direction IMO. After that the only last thing the class would need is some other defensive mechanism over shadow slip. For me it would be cool if the soul sparks we build as Soul Binders would:
1) Not expire within a couple of seconds after the battle has ended or your enemy simply ran away/hid in stealth for too long. After all, active soul sparks heal you for more then they would do after the battle. =/= logic?
2) Consume damage taken, similar to CW's shield. Based on our DR.
3) Build a little bit faster with the other encounters/at-wills. Gosh, even though ED is rather fast, it sometimes does 200 damage to TR deflecting it and like 600 on deflected crits (was using P.vorpal). I prerfer HoB over ED just because it does way more damage AND debuffs my opponent.
That's what would make my life as a Warlock easier.
I don't disagree with this. CC break on shift could be too much. Absolute cc resistance and 100% deflect on shift is not. That is what other classes call a dodge. And some "dodge" powers are more forgiving than others. For example, as a cw you have some fractions of a second near a whole second, to dodge out of a red zone when it appears- usually enough to get off a single cast. Other classes not so much.
So again, barring any kind of itc/100% deflect or anything like that, sw shift should be a simple dodge. Give us what cws have with a different animation and name but with identical effect and I'll be quite happy.
So again, barring any kind of itc/100% deflect or anything like that, sw shift should be a simple dodge. Give us what cws have with a different animation and name but with identical effect and I'll be quite happy.
I understand where you're coming from, however I feel like taking what CWs have and putting it on warlocks to get closer to class balance will only blurr the line that makes each class unique. I would prefer seeing something unique for warlocks, not a re used concept of an existing spell such as grasp of hadar being the same spell as entangling force pretty much. We need 'something' but I would rather that something not be a reused concept from CWs.
I would have much preferred if the animation for hadar's grasp was the same as valindra tower's when she grabs a player during the boss fight, instead of just re using the same animation and giving it a purple aura. That's my opinion however.
In the end, as for shadow slip I think auto deflection could work, but I think we could come up (or cryptic) with some better ideas about it. Perhaps even reworking the ability to be a slip but do something else entirely
I would be down for Shadow Slip to make the SW invisible in addition to my idea of Curse Synergies granting stamina.
Im not really in agreement with Shadow Slip acting as a CC breaker and not so much for the auto deflection but I would take that over it acting like a CC breaker.
I think the idea of going invisible/untargetable fits very well with the idea shadow slip itself, and would make a very nice addition to the warlock. I'm 100% for that idea. The shadow slip cannot be used for very lenghty periods of time, balancing the ability in itself to prevent OPness and boosting it just enough to make it good, going from really bad.
It could also fit the Role play idea of the ability as well, it could be said that we travel faster due to the fact we're in the astral plane while shifting (or something alike to that).
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I would be down for Shadow Slip to make the SW invisible in addition to my idea of Curse Synergies granting stamina.
Im not really in agreement with Shadow Slip acting as a CC breaker and not so much for the auto deflection but I would take that over it acting like a CC breaker.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Shadow Slip making SWs go invisible would completely break Temptation Warlocks in PvP, as they restore stamina each time they're hit; making them invisible would make them *less* tanky. Shadow Slip breaking cc would be completely broken. Making an encounter power or daily power of an SW break cc probably wouldn't be. Or perhaps allowing some powers to be used while cc-ed. That would mean entirely redesigning some power to fit that purpose, though. Accursed Souls, maybe. A problem for the whole class also shouldn't be patched through boosting just one paragon path (Hellbringer is already significantly less useful for PvP than Soulbinder is); building sparks faster would be nice, but that would make Hellbringer even worse off by comparison.
However, the real underlying problem isn't cc per se, it's vulnerability to damage. Being cc-ed doesn't kill you, it just sets you up to be killed. And SWs have no reliable way of avoiding some types of burst damage; Shocking Execution in particular, but also things like CW Ice Knives or GWF Savage Advances or intimidation procs. Those things will knock a massive chunk of hit points off the SW regardless of health. On the other hand, if the SW got too much of a boost to upfront ability to tank damage, that would probably be broken too since SWs already do very well if a fight goes on for a bit courtesy of their larger damage over time and their ability to self-heal. Giving a small up-front boost of some sort would probably be nice, though. Having it act as its own layer of defense rather than as added DR would make it more in line with other dodge/shift moves and block some damage it currently doesn't affect (though it's probably better if all damage would respect DR against players, or at least SE and SO damage).
I'd prefer it if there was a solution to both issues that revolved around existing SW mechanics or SW playstyle rather than giving SWs things that don't belong in the class. Maybe having SW damage debuffs also reduce the control ability and crit severity of the target, or giving an increased effect of some powers if the SW is controlled (i.e. Warlock's Bargain would siphon more as long as the SW is controlled).
As it is, SWs are getting an additional cc that seems to last for quite a while. I don't quite like that either, as it makes them more similar to other classes.
SWs should be able to apply their curse while moving or while controlled.
SWs need a way to control the soul puppet, especially Damnation Warlocks. Maybe the soul puppet should always seek out the last cursed target.
Soul Desecration should also have an additional effect, like: Targets marked by the warlock's curse that are hit by the warlock's soul puppet receive a 2% reduction to damage, critical severity and control strength.
Wrathful Souls should also add: Targets hit by a soul puppet's attack has a chance of being dazed for 3 seconds. This chance increases with each hit, and can only occur once every 20 seconds.
Shadow Walk should give 4% Deflection chance, +2% per additional rank, while slotted. This addition should be tripled while shadow slipping (for a total of +30% deflection chance at rank 4).
Hand of Blight, Warding Curse and Wraith's Shadow should also apply a penalty to the target's crit severity and control duration against the SW equal to the base damage debuff.
Warlock's Bargain should inflict additional damage while the SW is controlled; +30-+50%.
Blades of Vanquished Armies should be castable while moving, like Infernal Spheres.
The casting time of a few other SW powers should be reduced: Wraith's Shadow, Curse Bite, Warlock's Bargain, Fires of Phlegethon, Accursed Souls, and Tyrannical Threat (now that it's been nerfed).
Thanks for your input mac, I like several of those ideas, however I have a couple of things to say.
When you mentionned making slipping going invisible for temptation locks being too strong, I would like to put it in comparison with the rogue to see things in perspective. Let's imagine it was implemented:
-In order to get a really big benefit out of your slip lasting longer you need to take a feat very far in the temptation tree and to be taking damage - that means DoT damage, because at this point you're invisible so people cannot further target you with powers, so that doesn't happen all the time, but it can be encountered a couple times in a pvp game, just not everytime you hit the button.
-Rogues stealth has a short duration in itself (reliably, no conditions, everytime you hit stealth you know how long you'll be for). However because of the set bonus, the heroic feat and some other feats, this ability's total uptime is significantly improved. Similarly, if someone takes eldritch momemtum, the feat that makes slipping consume less stamina and potentially other feats I am not thinking off the top of my head, it would be fair that this ability would be improved and last longer, or be used more often, right? I'm thinking about how much the stealth gets improved from the pvp set bonus and the heroic feat particularly.
So, having a couple seconds of stealth when I slip doesn't sound that bad to me, when I consider what the other classes get this classifies to me as a PvP change that will make a really big change to warlocks and make them much more viable than they are now.
As for vulnerability to damage, I like the way you described it, you pretty much described in accurate word the feel I tried to get trough in many paragraphs of text :P
To be honest, I just hope the devs won't let the warlock as it is right now on preview and do something before then... Cause otherwise in a couple weeks we're gunna see all the PvE locks complaining about exactly what we've just said in this thread. Then what? play the warlock until it catches dev attention on forums everyone thinks the class sucks then get a super buff to make warlock OP, and then get the nerf hammer again? Come on listen to players cryptic ..
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I don't think it's too strong necessarily, since you can't do much offensively other than cast Infernal Spheres anyway. It's certainly not inappropriate, and would be a nice tool for SWs to reposition themselves. The problem is rather that it doesn't synergize well with Eldritch Momentum, which is very important for temptation builds being a semi-viable way to play in PvP at all. If you're stealthy, you aren't getting hit, which means you don't rebuild stamina, and you basically have to *not* be shadow slipping in order to benefit from that feat if you go stealthy while shadow slipping. The most important benefit currently is that you can get quite tanky, and shadow slip for potentially a very long time. Having shadow slip make you invisible would completely undermine that.
You could also redesign Eldritch Momentum as part of the same package into something with a similar level of defensive utility that would work better with shadow slipping in stealth, but it would have to be a very substantial boost to be equally worthwhile relative to the other SW paths.
Another thing is this: Shadow slipping giving stealth could potentially end up making SWs more susceptible to cc, because any time you see an SW, he'll be subject to cc. And any time you don't see him, you can't target him anyway, so you don't use any cc anyway while he's invisible. Since the SW can't do much except move while shadow slipping, he's not getting any offense in like that. And when people do see him, he'll always be vulnerable.
One other twist on the same theme might be this: Some SW powers could, when activated, have the benefit of making the SW invisible for a few seconds or until he uses another encounter power. Vampiric Embrace could be a logical thematic candidate for this, as could Wraith's Shadow or Curse Bite, or the Accursed Souls daily. This would allow SWs an additional defensive mechanism that would also allow them more freedom to use other powers, not just avoid being hit.
good thinking, I guess I didn't realize the CC weakness because rogues have 4 dodges and ITC after all, but anyways, good points. Perhaps we'll get more ideas down the line, the more thinkers the better
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I understand where you're coming from, however I feel like taking what CWs have and putting it on warlocks to get closer to class balance will only blurr the line that makes each class unique. I would prefer seeing something unique for warlocks, not a re used concept of an existing spell such as grasp of hadar being the same spell as entangling force pretty much. We need 'something' but I would rather that something not be a reused concept from CWs.
I would have much preferred if the animation for hadar's grasp was the same as valindra tower's when she grabs a player during the boss fight, instead of just re using the same animation and giving it a purple aura. That's my opinion however.
In the end, as for shadow slip I think auto deflection could work, but I think we could come up (or cryptic) with some better ideas about it. Perhaps even reworking the ability to be a slip but do something else entirely
I think the idea of going invisible/untargetable fits very well with the idea shadow slip itself, and would make a very nice addition to the warlock. I'm 100% for that idea. The shadow slip cannot be used for very lenghty periods of time, balancing the ability in itself to prevent OPness and boosting it just enough to make it good, going from really bad.
It could also fit the Role play idea of the ability as well, it could be said that we travel faster due to the fact we're in the astral plane while shifting (or something alike to that).
I agree with you about sw having a shift mechanic unique to its self. There just doesn't seem to be much consensus on what that should be. So dodge is an easy answer. Non-cc breaking, 100% deflect, cc resistance while in slip seems as close to consensus as we can get. I would be happy with that.
And to ad yet another idea on to the pile:
"Soul-Drain" (like soul train, you dig? ;-) )
When a sw curses a target, Soul Drain is applied to the target for three seconds. If Soul Drain is not activated within three seconds it disappears and does not proc. Soul Drain persists for the entire three seconds regardless of whether or not the curse is consumed by any ability the SW has which consumes curses.
Soul Drain is activated when the target receives 15% of its total hit points, in damage from the SW. When Soul Drain is activated, the SW receives, as temporary hit points, the damage which activated Soul Drain. Soul Drain may stack up to four times.
Example: SW Bob curses GWF Sam. Soul Drain is applied. GWF Sam has 50,000 HP. SW Bob does 7,500 damage to GWF Sam while Soul Drain is applied on Sam. This activates Soul Drain. Sam loses 7,500 hit points and Bob gains 7,500 hit points as temporary hit points. These temporary hit points dissipate over time.
Soul Drain WOULD NOT BE life steal. It would be a power (probably a feat or a passive) unique to the Scourge Warlock class and available to all SW paths.
1. It would make SWs much more tanky without changing anything else about the class.
2. Hit Points being THE absolute best across the board defensive stat, it would be a solid boost directly to SW defense.
3. It would require skill to optimize.
If you want to beef it up even more, you could throw in a .25 second stun for every stack of soul drain activated on a target.
I agree with you about sw having a shift mechanic unique to its self. There just doesn't seem to be much consensus on what that should be. So dodge is an easy answer. Non-cc breaking, 100% deflect, cc resistance while in slip seems as close to consensus as we can get. I would be happy with that.
And to ad yet another idea on to the pile:
"Soul-Drain" (like soul train, you dig? ;-) )
When a sw curses a target, Soul Drain is applied to the target for three seconds. If Soul Drain is not activated within three seconds it disappears and does not proc. Soul Drain persists for the entire three seconds regardless of whether or not the curse is consumed by any ability the SW has which consumes curses.
Soul Drain is activated when the target receives 15% of its total hit points, in damage from the SW. When Soul Drain is activated, the SW receives, as temporary hit points, the damage which activated Soul Drain. Soul Drain may stack up to four times.
Example: SW Bob curses GWF Sam. Soul Drain is applied. GWF Sam has 50,000 HP. SW Bob does 7,500 damage to GWF Sam while Soul Drain is applied on Sam. This activates Soul Drain. Sam loses 7,500 hit points and Bob gains 7,500 hit points as temporary hit points. These temporary hit points dissipate over time.
Soul Drain WOULD NOT BE life steal. It would be a power (probably a feat or a passive) unique to the Scourge Warlock class and available to all SW paths.
1. It would make SWs much more tanky without changing anything else about the class.
2. Hit Points being THE absolute best across the board defensive stat, it would be a solid boost directly to SW defense.
3. It would require skill to optimize.
If you want to beef it up even more, you could throw in a .25 second stun for every stack of soul drain activated on a target.
hah, ya I want this. OP?
I like the concept, I think you had pvp in mind when you made up this ability - I could see this being part of our warlock curse mechanic. What I mean is, much like GF block, or GWF determination, this would be included within the class mechanic to help warlocks have a little more very needed survival since Life steal changes in m6.
I can this being useful for dailies and pvp, however I hardly see myself doing 15% hp damage to tiamat in 3 seconds, so perhaps making it 15% total HP or 1000% weapon damage (roughly 2.5kx10 = 25k damage I guess that sounds fair.) depending what you're fighting and which one benefits you the most. I also think 3 seconds is very short, unless they do something about casting time I will barely be able to launch an ability by the time the soul drain goes, anyone playing with some sort of latency are screwed, I like the idea of skill cap on abilities but i think 4-5 seconds sounds more forgiving, could raise the HP cap if necessary, that'd be cryptic's decision at this point anyways. This is probably way ahead of time, but if it IS implemented in some way, then we could rethink some old feats from the 3 trees and existing class features and suggest some reworks/changes to synergize with this new mechanic.
Aside from that, I love the idea, I'm gunna add the idea to my main post later, I think you should post it to the SW official feedback as an idea to be part of the warlock curse class mechanic to make up for life steal changes, maybe? This got some real potential IMO. What do you think?
Cheers
Warlock Zek
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
My main concerns as a pve warlock are the nerfs to TT and creeping death along with new gear that will not have a set bonus like AD set. Now, all of a sudden 3 of my main ways of dealing damage are either toned down or taken away completely.
It's possible that with the higher health of the dungeon mobs, our damage will still look the same as before, since our DoT stuff will have more time to damage. Personally, in heavy trash mob dungeons, if I have a good cw and a few other heavy hitters on the team, my damage is very average. Whereas against bosses, tiamat, or things like the mobs in elol, my damage shines over just about anyone, because of the high health and time allowed for my skills to take full effect.
It does feel that we are being made needlessly weaker in this new mod. Of course, as I've felt since mod 4, most changes seem to be made with dollar signs as the motivator. And of course, if I was a developer, my wallet would be excited for making a class weaker and making it so that players were more likely to spend money to improve their newly weak selves. sigh
It does feel that we are being made needlessly weaker in this new mod. Of course, as I've felt since mod 4, most changes seem to be made with dollar signs as the motivator. And of course, if I was a developer, my wallet would be excited for making a class weaker and making it so that players were more likely to spend money to improve their newly weak selves. sigh
I wouldn't throw the card out yet. But honestly if nothing's changed about warlock by mod 6, then I will definitly think this 'plan' is completely intended. Since mod 4 we kept getting nerfs over nerfs to the class, slowly but surely nerfed and more nerfed. Some of those nerfs weren't even called for, fury capstone nerf, what?
And if it was really their plan, then that would suck. It would suck even more if they press the OP button in mod 7 and make the class too strong, then resume nerfing it to the ground again, come on.
Take all classes you've nerfed so far in their prime at their strongest state.
gwf mod 3
cw live
the buff to guardian seems to be in mod 6, though I'm not a GF player it's hard for me to say
hr live tr live
Buff SW
DC live, change astral shield to be half as effective in pvp (I'm told by some it's a glitch but I have no idea I'm not a DC player?)
Class balance achieved, it doesn't go any further.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I just went trough alot of testing on the preview server for damnation, you can go see the results in the official feedback thread, if you feel like it.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
So I did more testing, and during my tests damnation overperformed Fury in DPS. My testing was limited to training dummies in dread ring, however being the small number of target wouldn't matter too much because you cannot curse more than 3 targets, meaning 40 or 3 mobs, creeping death will deal the same damage. The tests were done over a period of 2 minutes each twice, with each roughly the same results.
Here's the results:
Damnation - 3.76mil
Also note that I haven't gone very far testing the target cap with Spirit Fire (50% weapon damage to ennemies near soul puppet) because there's no foundries in preview. However so far I have not been able to notice a target cap on Spirit Fire. (It is currently bugged, but if they fix it it should be very potent).
Fury - 2.51mil
So that could mean that you won't see alot of Fury warlocks going around anymore, kinda ironic since everybody used to run Fury before. If SpiritFire is fixed and they make changes to the Soul Puppet's survival (hopefully) then damnation will be superior in every manner to Fury, both in terms of survival and DPS.
This also means my L60 warlock scaled to 70 can hit 3.76mil in 2 mins. I'm not sure I'd be ready to say we're out of the dps race yet but we'll have to see how the other classes fare still.
I will run the same tests with my lv 60 wizard trough a 2min dps test soonish to compare.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Do you plan on doing any testing on temptation? I don't like the sound of the changes and I've been wondering how well they actually work. It might be fun to respec to damnation instead, if the puppet can stay alive. There could be an interesting dynamic when paired with a legendary companion.
Yeah I was thinking the same as you on this one :cool:
Also, if you want the numbers for temptation, there's no DPS boosts from temptation so take away 10% DPS from having a puppet out + wraith claw/Spiritfire damage and you get temptation.
That would make around 2mil DPS instead of 3.7mil compared to Damnation. Ofc you don't get party healing but the survival of damnation is AMAZING. With the feat that makes you life steal 15% (which is currently bugged: hope they fix it too) 1.7mil damage over 2 minutes grants you 255k healing just from letting your puppet beat stuff in the face - this healing is consistent because the puppet deals consistent damage. (On top of soulbinder survival)
Soulbinder damnation locks get two streams of healing - one from the puppet damage + borrowed time. Add VE/WB/LS and so far things look good (provided they fix the bugs! lol)
Unless they fix the bugs and puppet survival damnation won't be viable.
If they don't, I'll play temptation, if they do - I'll play damnation.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Thanks for the info. I'm guessing HB is undesirable unless they look into buffing survivability? On paper, it looks like no contest right now. Either way, I'm looking forward to trying SB
One of the things I liked about Temptation was being able to heal players who aren't dealing damage. I'm still bummed about that change.
Soul Bonding: Your powers now heal your allies for a percentage of their damage(This is unclear but 'their damage' references damage of your powers, not your allies) equal to your Life Steal chance. This effect is 30% as effective on Area of Effect powers. The healing component of your Vampiric Embrace now also heals nearby allies for 100% of its value.
The feat still works like before, and I tested it in preview so I can guarantee you it does. :cool:
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I like the concept, I think you had pvp in mind when you made up this ability - I could see this being part of our warlock curse mechanic. What I mean is, much like GF block, or GWF determination, this would be included within the class mechanic to help warlocks have a little more very needed survival since Life steal changes in m6.
I can this being useful for dailies and pvp, however I hardly see myself doing 15% hp damage to tiamat in 3 seconds, so perhaps making it 15% total HP or 1000% weapon damage (roughly 2.5kx10 = 25k damage I guess that sounds fair.) depending what you're fighting and which one benefits you the most. I also think 3 seconds is very short, unless they do something about casting time I will barely be able to launch an ability by the time the soul drain goes, anyone playing with some sort of latency are screwed, I like the idea of skill cap on abilities but i think 4-5 seconds sounds more forgiving, could raise the HP cap if necessary, that'd be cryptic's decision at this point anyways. This is probably way ahead of time, but if it IS implemented in some way, then we could rethink some old feats from the 3 trees and existing class features and suggest some reworks/changes to synergize with this new mechanic.
Aside from that, I love the idea, I'm gunna add the idea to my main post later, I think you should post it to the SW official feedback as an idea to be part of the warlock curse class mechanic to make up for life steal changes, maybe? This got some real potential IMO. What do you think?
Cheers
Warlock Zek
Yes, I was mainly thinking pvp, but with the changes you stated, it could work for pve also. It could even be 15% of the SW's total HP done against an enemy. And yes, the duration is too short. I put out the concept which I think s good, but you and others would be able to shape into something that is practical and useful.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Hey everyone, I pm'd panderus last week about SWs and CWs performance, and he mentionned that his tests conclude that both classes perform as they expect them to be on preview.
So for now let's wait until mod 6. I think the whole thread has been confirmed as completely useless, I will stop monitoring it as much as I did and repost the exact same threads talking about the same problems we have seen on preview that will not be adressed until mod 6 comes out.(this one and my CW DPS one)
I realize that the past month or so I got so caught up in the forums thinking I could actually have an impact and improve the quality of life of all warlocks that I actually stopped playing, when I get on I do leadership then post on the forums and AFK Tiamat. (Yes I'm a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, I've done over 100 runs of tiamat by now, it's still buggy, I still crash to 0 fps frequently and I really don't care anymore. I'm just saving myself the frustration. So if it fails then I won't care eitherway)
If my warlock becomes unplayable in end game in m6 for PvE (it was unplayable in PvP which was a huge turn off, but at least it was good in PvE. Then I'll stop playing end game completely and I'll go twink lowbie pvp cause I have nothing better to do these days. And if the devs end up thinking the SW is good as is I'll just quit and play another game. But if the game isn't enjoyable to me anymore I'll go elsewhere
I don't care anymore, but I hope I'm wrong
Cheers
Zek
This internal testing seems sketchy......
The SW HONESTLY compares to a renegade SS from their testings? People keep complaining about the puppet as well. I guess damnation wasn't a part of their internal testing...
Comments
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
1) Not expire within a couple of seconds after the battle has ended or your enemy simply ran away/hid in stealth for too long. After all, active soul sparks heal you for more then they would do after the battle. =/= logic?
2) Consume damage taken, similar to CW's shield. Based on our DR.
3) Build a little bit faster with the other encounters/at-wills. Gosh, even though ED is rather fast, it sometimes does 200 damage to TR deflecting it and like 600 on deflected crits (was using P.vorpal). I prerfer HoB over ED just because it does way more damage AND debuffs my opponent.
That's what would make my life as a Warlock easier.
WTB Class Reroll please
I don't disagree with this. CC break on shift could be too much. Absolute cc resistance and 100% deflect on shift is not. That is what other classes call a dodge. And some "dodge" powers are more forgiving than others. For example, as a cw you have some fractions of a second near a whole second, to dodge out of a red zone when it appears- usually enough to get off a single cast. Other classes not so much.
So again, barring any kind of itc/100% deflect or anything like that, sw shift should be a simple dodge. Give us what cws have with a different animation and name but with identical effect and I'll be quite happy.
I understand where you're coming from, however I feel like taking what CWs have and putting it on warlocks to get closer to class balance will only blurr the line that makes each class unique. I would prefer seeing something unique for warlocks, not a re used concept of an existing spell such as grasp of hadar being the same spell as entangling force pretty much. We need 'something' but I would rather that something not be a reused concept from CWs.
I would have much preferred if the animation for hadar's grasp was the same as valindra tower's when she grabs a player during the boss fight, instead of just re using the same animation and giving it a purple aura. That's my opinion however.
In the end, as for shadow slip I think auto deflection could work, but I think we could come up (or cryptic) with some better ideas about it. Perhaps even reworking the ability to be a slip but do something else entirely
I think the idea of going invisible/untargetable fits very well with the idea shadow slip itself, and would make a very nice addition to the warlock. I'm 100% for that idea. The shadow slip cannot be used for very lenghty periods of time, balancing the ability in itself to prevent OPness and boosting it just enough to make it good, going from really bad.
It could also fit the Role play idea of the ability as well, it could be said that we travel faster due to the fact we're in the astral plane while shifting (or something alike to that).
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Im not really in agreement with Shadow Slip acting as a CC breaker and not so much for the auto deflection but I would take that over it acting like a CC breaker.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
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Thanks for your input mac, I like several of those ideas, however I have a couple of things to say.
When you mentionned making slipping going invisible for temptation locks being too strong, I would like to put it in comparison with the rogue to see things in perspective. Let's imagine it was implemented:
-In order to get a really big benefit out of your slip lasting longer you need to take a feat very far in the temptation tree and to be taking damage - that means DoT damage, because at this point you're invisible so people cannot further target you with powers, so that doesn't happen all the time, but it can be encountered a couple times in a pvp game, just not everytime you hit the button.
-Rogues stealth has a short duration in itself (reliably, no conditions, everytime you hit stealth you know how long you'll be for). However because of the set bonus, the heroic feat and some other feats, this ability's total uptime is significantly improved. Similarly, if someone takes eldritch momemtum, the feat that makes slipping consume less stamina and potentially other feats I am not thinking off the top of my head, it would be fair that this ability would be improved and last longer, or be used more often, right? I'm thinking about how much the stealth gets improved from the pvp set bonus and the heroic feat particularly.
So, having a couple seconds of stealth when I slip doesn't sound that bad to me, when I consider what the other classes get this classifies to me as a PvP change that will make a really big change to warlocks and make them much more viable than they are now.
As for vulnerability to damage, I like the way you described it, you pretty much described in accurate word the feel I tried to get trough in many paragraphs of text :P
To be honest, I just hope the devs won't let the warlock as it is right now on preview and do something before then... Cause otherwise in a couple weeks we're gunna see all the PvE locks complaining about exactly what we've just said in this thread. Then what? play the warlock until it catches dev attention on forums everyone thinks the class sucks then get a super buff to make warlock OP, and then get the nerf hammer again? Come on listen to players cryptic ..
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
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good thinking, I guess I didn't realize the CC weakness because rogues have 4 dodges and ITC after all, but anyways, good points. Perhaps we'll get more ideas down the line, the more thinkers the better
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
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I agree with you about sw having a shift mechanic unique to its self. There just doesn't seem to be much consensus on what that should be. So dodge is an easy answer. Non-cc breaking, 100% deflect, cc resistance while in slip seems as close to consensus as we can get. I would be happy with that.
And to ad yet another idea on to the pile:
"Soul-Drain" (like soul train, you dig? ;-) )
When a sw curses a target, Soul Drain is applied to the target for three seconds. If Soul Drain is not activated within three seconds it disappears and does not proc. Soul Drain persists for the entire three seconds regardless of whether or not the curse is consumed by any ability the SW has which consumes curses.
Soul Drain is activated when the target receives 15% of its total hit points, in damage from the SW. When Soul Drain is activated, the SW receives, as temporary hit points, the damage which activated Soul Drain. Soul Drain may stack up to four times.
Example: SW Bob curses GWF Sam. Soul Drain is applied. GWF Sam has 50,000 HP. SW Bob does 7,500 damage to GWF Sam while Soul Drain is applied on Sam. This activates Soul Drain. Sam loses 7,500 hit points and Bob gains 7,500 hit points as temporary hit points. These temporary hit points dissipate over time.
Soul Drain WOULD NOT BE life steal. It would be a power (probably a feat or a passive) unique to the Scourge Warlock class and available to all SW paths.
1. It would make SWs much more tanky without changing anything else about the class.
2. Hit Points being THE absolute best across the board defensive stat, it would be a solid boost directly to SW defense.
3. It would require skill to optimize.
If you want to beef it up even more, you could throw in a .25 second stun for every stack of soul drain activated on a target.
hah, ya I want this. OP?
I like the concept, I think you had pvp in mind when you made up this ability - I could see this being part of our warlock curse mechanic.
I can this being useful for dailies and pvp, however I hardly see myself doing 15% hp damage to tiamat in 3 seconds, so perhaps making it 15% total HP or 1000% weapon damage (roughly 2.5kx10 = 25k damage I guess that sounds fair.) depending what you're fighting and which one benefits you the most. I also think 3 seconds is very short, unless they do something about casting time I will barely be able to launch an ability by the time the soul drain goes, anyone playing with some sort of latency are screwed, I like the idea of skill cap on abilities but i think 4-5 seconds sounds more forgiving, could raise the HP cap if necessary, that'd be cryptic's decision at this point anyways. This is probably way ahead of time, but if it IS implemented in some way, then we could rethink some old feats from the 3 trees and existing class features and suggest some reworks/changes to synergize with this new mechanic.
Aside from that, I love the idea, I'm gunna add the idea to my main post later, I think you should post it to the SW official feedback as an idea to be part of the warlock curse class mechanic to make up for life steal changes, maybe? This got some real potential IMO. What do you think?
Cheers
Warlock Zek
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
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My main concerns as a pve warlock are the nerfs to TT and creeping death along with new gear that will not have a set bonus like AD set. Now, all of a sudden 3 of my main ways of dealing damage are either toned down or taken away completely.
It's possible that with the higher health of the dungeon mobs, our damage will still look the same as before, since our DoT stuff will have more time to damage. Personally, in heavy trash mob dungeons, if I have a good cw and a few other heavy hitters on the team, my damage is very average. Whereas against bosses, tiamat, or things like the mobs in elol, my damage shines over just about anyone, because of the high health and time allowed for my skills to take full effect.
It does feel that we are being made needlessly weaker in this new mod. Of course, as I've felt since mod 4, most changes seem to be made with dollar signs as the motivator. And of course, if I was a developer, my wallet would be excited for making a class weaker and making it so that players were more likely to spend money to improve their newly weak selves. sigh
I wouldn't throw the card out yet. But honestly if nothing's changed about warlock by mod 6, then I will definitly think this 'plan' is completely intended. Since mod 4 we kept getting nerfs over nerfs to the class, slowly but surely nerfed and more nerfed. Some of those nerfs weren't even called for, fury capstone nerf, what?
And if it was really their plan, then that would suck. It would suck even more if they press the OP button in mod 7 and make the class too strong, then resume nerfing it to the ground again, come on.
Take all classes you've nerfed so far in their prime at their strongest state.
gwf mod 3
cw live
the buff to guardian seems to be in mod 6, though I'm not a GF player it's hard for me to say
hr live tr live
Buff SW
DC live, change astral shield to be half as effective in pvp (I'm told by some it's a glitch but I have no idea I'm not a DC player?)
Class balance achieved, it doesn't go any further.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
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It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Here's the results:
Damnation - 3.76mil
Also note that I haven't gone very far testing the target cap with Spirit Fire (50% weapon damage to ennemies near soul puppet) because there's no foundries in preview. However so far I have not been able to notice a target cap on Spirit Fire. (It is currently bugged, but if they fix it it should be very potent).
Fury - 2.51mil
So that could mean that you won't see alot of Fury warlocks going around anymore, kinda ironic since everybody used to run Fury before. If SpiritFire is fixed and they make changes to the Soul Puppet's survival (hopefully) then damnation will be superior in every manner to Fury, both in terms of survival and DPS.
This also means my L60 warlock scaled to 70 can hit 3.76mil in 2 mins. I'm not sure I'd be ready to say we're out of the dps race yet but we'll have to see how the other classes fare still.
I will run the same tests with my lv 60 wizard trough a 2min dps test soonish to compare.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
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Yeah I was thinking the same as you on this one :cool:
Also, if you want the numbers for temptation, there's no DPS boosts from temptation so take away 10% DPS from having a puppet out + wraith claw/Spiritfire damage and you get temptation.
That would make around 2mil DPS instead of 3.7mil compared to Damnation. Ofc you don't get party healing but the survival of damnation is AMAZING. With the feat that makes you life steal 15% (which is currently bugged: hope they fix it too) 1.7mil damage over 2 minutes grants you 255k healing just from letting your puppet beat stuff in the face - this healing is consistent because the puppet deals consistent damage. (On top of soulbinder survival)
Soulbinder damnation locks get two streams of healing - one from the puppet damage + borrowed time. Add VE/WB/LS and so far things look good (provided they fix the bugs! lol)
Unless they fix the bugs and puppet survival damnation won't be viable.
If they don't, I'll play temptation, if they do - I'll play damnation.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
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Soul Bonding: Your powers now heal your allies for a percentage of their damage(This is unclear but 'their damage' references damage of your powers, not your allies) equal to your Life Steal chance. This effect is 30% as effective on Area of Effect powers. The healing component of your Vampiric Embrace now also heals nearby allies for 100% of its value.
The feat still works like before, and I tested it in preview so I can guarantee you it does. :cool:
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
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Yes, I was mainly thinking pvp, but with the changes you stated, it could work for pve also. It could even be 15% of the SW's total HP done against an enemy. And yes, the duration is too short. I put out the concept which I think s good, but you and others would be able to shape into something that is practical and useful.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
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This internal testing seems sketchy......
The SW HONESTLY compares to a renegade SS from their testings? People keep complaining about the puppet as well. I guess damnation wasn't a part of their internal testing...