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To the TR Wannabes...
mirrorballs
Member Posts: 877 Bounty Hunter
Since mod5, so many TRs -- or rather, "TR Wannabes" in all different level/skill ranges of PvP that its not hard to see the great buffs in this latest mod have drawn the interest of many players, both old and new. Okay, this is a good thing. A lot of players like the class.
But then again, here's the bad part: I don't think I have ever seen a mod with so many TR players being so absolutely clueless as to what they are supposed to do in domination. I've used this expression before, but in almost every match, the endless stream of TRs we get are simply lacking in so many ways, compared to the days when I've started to first play TRs around 15 months ago.
....so, in the spirit of sharing information, to our aspiring new TR players, I would like to say...
Stop Playing Executioners
No, seriously. At this point, from what I've observed so far, it seems playing Execs simply mess up any prospect of actually getting better in the basics of TR tactics and maneuvers. It makes you lazy. It makes you just simplify every aspect of your TR gameplay by turning you into a lazy, skill-less suicide bomber. Yes, you heard me. The way you people are playing the TRs, you're not so different from those idiots strapping bombs to their chest and then go for a 1-shot kill.
Your reliance on the overbuffed LB often gives you very easy kills against the unprepared and inexperienced, so you start thinking you've got skill. And then of course, after pulling the plug to detonate, you hope to cheat death by running away in a straigh line using 4 dodges and then stealthing to the nearest heal potion spawn... you repeat this and this gives you 20 kills, so you think you're playing the TR well, right?
WRONG.
The basics of TRs are with defense. It's how much you can maximize your options to stay put and keep enemies at bay and CONTEST A NODE. Any idiot can do the suicide-bomber. Strap on LB with an Exec build, run straight to the nearest enemy in sight, push the button and KABOOM! run straight away and hope to survive. You call this skill? I call it "firing a guided missile". Every moment you spend outside of combat by having to run away, every moment you waste by lurking around the 2nd floor of Rivenscar or the bridgeways of Hotenow and gobbling up heal pots with every 1 kill you make, is potential that is wasted.
In essence, when you do this without contesting a node, you aren't helping the team at all. All you're doing is using your teammates as meatshields and distractions for your own kills. Instead of helping the team, you hurt the team by not doing your job. You're a leech.
Let me tell this to all aspiring TR wannabes right now, that YOUR EXECUTIONERS SUCK. So I recommend you, stop using that useless thing which misleads you to abandon your job as a TR in PvP. Practice the basics before you think of kills. A TR that gets 1 kill / 20 deaths is far superior to a TR who gets 20 kills / 1 deaths, if the score of the former was a result of trying to backcap nodes all the time, while the score of the latter was the "free-roaming" idiot executioners.
Know Your Job
A TR has either of two jobs in PvP.
(A) either you are a combat TR offering direct combat assistance to your teammates at mid, or...
(B) you are a backcapper, disrupting enemy scoring and maneuvers
This means you are either always at the mid node, or always at the opponent's back node. If you are at neither place, then you're of no help the team, and simply a leech.
If you're the combat TR, then you stick with your team at the mid node and fight it off. If all you can do is try that LB, and then just run all the way behind in search for a heal pot, then you're not a combat TR. You're a leech.
If you're at the opponent's back node, take it for once, but then you simply run straight away after failing a LB attempt and abandon the node for the enemies to retake it, then you're not a backcapper. You're a leech.
Us TRs, and our killing power, our agility and methods of self defense, is only meaningful under the premise that it helps domination of the nodes by aggressive contesting to hinder enemy scoring. Every kill you get by chasing off-node enemies, every time you go for heal pots during such foolishness, every moment spent roaming around as if domination was some open-world PvP scene, is time you have wasted, and time you've only hurt the team rather than help it. Number of kills/scoring doesn't mean anything if you lose the match. If you think you are a superior TR, then you're always at the backcap node, or at mid clearing enemies. If the team does not have two TRs to do each of the mentioned TR job in domination, then your priority is backcapping.
Fail to do this, and you're TR wannabes. You aren't TRs. Don't you forget this, padawans.
But then again, here's the bad part: I don't think I have ever seen a mod with so many TR players being so absolutely clueless as to what they are supposed to do in domination. I've used this expression before, but in almost every match, the endless stream of TRs we get are simply lacking in so many ways, compared to the days when I've started to first play TRs around 15 months ago.
....so, in the spirit of sharing information, to our aspiring new TR players, I would like to say...
Stop Playing Executioners
No, seriously. At this point, from what I've observed so far, it seems playing Execs simply mess up any prospect of actually getting better in the basics of TR tactics and maneuvers. It makes you lazy. It makes you just simplify every aspect of your TR gameplay by turning you into a lazy, skill-less suicide bomber. Yes, you heard me. The way you people are playing the TRs, you're not so different from those idiots strapping bombs to their chest and then go for a 1-shot kill.
Your reliance on the overbuffed LB often gives you very easy kills against the unprepared and inexperienced, so you start thinking you've got skill. And then of course, after pulling the plug to detonate, you hope to cheat death by running away in a straigh line using 4 dodges and then stealthing to the nearest heal potion spawn... you repeat this and this gives you 20 kills, so you think you're playing the TR well, right?
WRONG.
The basics of TRs are with defense. It's how much you can maximize your options to stay put and keep enemies at bay and CONTEST A NODE. Any idiot can do the suicide-bomber. Strap on LB with an Exec build, run straight to the nearest enemy in sight, push the button and KABOOM! run straight away and hope to survive. You call this skill? I call it "firing a guided missile". Every moment you spend outside of combat by having to run away, every moment you waste by lurking around the 2nd floor of Rivenscar or the bridgeways of Hotenow and gobbling up heal pots with every 1 kill you make, is potential that is wasted.
In essence, when you do this without contesting a node, you aren't helping the team at all. All you're doing is using your teammates as meatshields and distractions for your own kills. Instead of helping the team, you hurt the team by not doing your job. You're a leech.
Let me tell this to all aspiring TR wannabes right now, that YOUR EXECUTIONERS SUCK. So I recommend you, stop using that useless thing which misleads you to abandon your job as a TR in PvP. Practice the basics before you think of kills. A TR that gets 1 kill / 20 deaths is far superior to a TR who gets 20 kills / 1 deaths, if the score of the former was a result of trying to backcap nodes all the time, while the score of the latter was the "free-roaming" idiot executioners.
Know Your Job
A TR has either of two jobs in PvP.
(A) either you are a combat TR offering direct combat assistance to your teammates at mid, or...
(B) you are a backcapper, disrupting enemy scoring and maneuvers
This means you are either always at the mid node, or always at the opponent's back node. If you are at neither place, then you're of no help the team, and simply a leech.
If you're the combat TR, then you stick with your team at the mid node and fight it off. If all you can do is try that LB, and then just run all the way behind in search for a heal pot, then you're not a combat TR. You're a leech.
If you're at the opponent's back node, take it for once, but then you simply run straight away after failing a LB attempt and abandon the node for the enemies to retake it, then you're not a backcapper. You're a leech.
Us TRs, and our killing power, our agility and methods of self defense, is only meaningful under the premise that it helps domination of the nodes by aggressive contesting to hinder enemy scoring. Every kill you get by chasing off-node enemies, every time you go for heal pots during such foolishness, every moment spent roaming around as if domination was some open-world PvP scene, is time you have wasted, and time you've only hurt the team rather than help it. Number of kills/scoring doesn't mean anything if you lose the match. If you think you are a superior TR, then you're always at the backcap node, or at mid clearing enemies. If the team does not have two TRs to do each of the mentioned TR job in domination, then your priority is backcapping.
Fail to do this, and you're TR wannabes. You aren't TRs. Don't you forget this, padawans.
Post edited by mirrorballs on
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In the end, it's winning the match what makes the difference.
Then go around asking if teams with free roaming idiots as TRs wins matches more often, or those with dedicated backcappers do .
Not in the low-mid levels of PvP. At these levels where I've been at recently, most of these guys don't even know such an exploit exists. They literally go executioner to LB, and basically this is the only way they know how to fight with a TR: "find target - stealth - LB - roll roll roll roll runaway - rinse and repeat".
Hate these "Deathmatching TR's". They usually end up making the team lose.
Either help clear 2 with your uber damage or go backcap, it's that simple.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
when someone, anyone, of any class runs out of point, don't care about them but DO care about kills - it's not TR wannabe, or CW wannabe, or DD cleric wannabe and so on. this is an idiot.
i've seen 3 enemies at their point, 3 our guys + me and... you'll never guess. All that crowd moves to neutral area, and spends 4 minites in earning kills. i was the only one who walk onto the point, took it without ANY problems, and then come to point 2.
i've been TR (WK) almost every mod 4, i do love this class. BUT. when every go****n moron - oh, i wanna be top guy, i wanna kill everything, i wanna go scoundrel and keep everyone dazed for ever - ...screw this, i'd play any other class.
scoundrels is a -ing plague of mod 5. 10 gs newbie IS able to stun everyone 4-6-8k, even 10k gs higher.
+ lots of pvp partys has 2+ rogues. with a last 2 sec vision and so on i don't want to be with another TR in a team. i'd go to point 3, take it, keep it... trying to keep, cause when i enters stealth 2nd TR wants to earn a kill. and i'm seen nicely. it's not a domination, it's sux.
give me mod 4 TR please. i'm sick of them now.
TR: HAHA OWNED
Enemy: You're losing by over 900 points lol
TR: IDC BEST KDR ON MY TEAM #REKT
I quit.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
If the match just starts, and you are also a TR and you see the other TR on your team rush to the enemy node -- well just because you dodge past them does not invite you to immediately start barking orders for what they need to do. I experienced this earlier where the other TR on my team slipped ahead of me to the enemy node even though I had the initial lead, she said "2", "2", "idiot". Well I play purely for fun and seeing she was on page one of leader board I knew exactly what would upset her the most and I did capitalize on that with additional comments from her about me being the "worst trash TR" and such silly things.
I had the time of my life that match and it could have been one of the funnest I have played (more for her conduct than the match itself but I had fun with it too). Surprisingly we lost even though we had a fairly considerable lead early on. I wonder why we lost?
The tells from her afterwards were also funny and I drew her down so many roads that even for an hour later I was still enjoying that match tremendously.
What about Executionners who utilize Vorpal ( no double proc of SoD ), and who don't utilize Lashing Blade ( it's easy to dodge it if you play with sound ) ? There are a lot of ways to play a TR..
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Interesting question: What would a stealhted Rogue see when he/she looks in a mirror?
...I suppose not much more than a vampire...
Your join date is Jan 2015. Either you are new or you are afraid of stating your opinion ( a rather inaccurate one at that) under your real name.
Let me educate you. I have been playing Executioner for a long time. It isn't the gravy train you make it out to be. Perma stealth sabo is the easy ride in pvp. Yes there are a lot of kamikaze executioner builds, yes they get owned and yes you get frustrated when they are on your team. But seriously pugs matches are not team oriented. If you want true team work then make a premade and then you can play defensive and rely on your team to do the work.
Remember that for every washed out mod 5 riding rogue on your team there is one on the opposite team just waiting for you to destroy. I guess my only real issue with your post is that you think your play style is the correct one and would impose it on everybody else. Good luck with that.
I would post a guide on how I built an executioner but i'm too lazy. Stack regen and stamina and deflect then your survivability goes way up. The only problem I have is with rogues who stack recovery/ AP gain and go perma. It's 50/50 with them due to spamming dailies from stealth and you need to have your dodge meter high so you can roll 4 or 5 times in a row.
You really need to add this line to complete the statement:
Go to 2 at the start and knife their rogue as he is heading to back cap your point. Clear node 2 and then head to their spawn to camp down on their players. Not fighting on the node is not the same as keeping them off of it.
Yup, every TR should have this on a huge font at the beginning of their games.
Because right now, current TR's have lower IQ than the roar GWF's from mod3.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
Grudgingly agreed. It's actually embarrassing to watch, being a TR main myself.
No, I don't expect them to perform on the premade level of excellence, but when I meet maybe 20 TR players in my own team, in a day of few PvP match-ups, I expect at least 1/4th of them to be TRYING to do what a TR should do. One-fourth of them. That's how much I expect at the 12~14k GS pool. Of the 20 aspiring TR wannabes I meet, I expect FIVE of them to be TRYING to backcap nodes and disrupt enemy operations.
Instead, nowadays I see NONE. Not even one. It's like what God might have felt in Sodom and Gomora -- be there even FIVE righteous TRs and I would spare the criticism... but nope. It's humiliating.
Lol. Well said!
Usable standard btw.
This is exactly what this thread, like every other thread these days, is basically saying.
Is he telling Executioners to stop doing what their paragon is built for and instead do a Saboteur or a Scoundrel's role?
There's a reason they're called Executioners, not Defenders (or Saboteur or Scoundrel), go figure.
It's like scolding an Anointed Champion for healing party mates and not doing much dps.
And you shouldn't expect every TR to be built for permadaze/permastealth and you can't ban a TR built for PvE for playing PvP.
if you bothered to read he talks about pvp. dont judge if u didnt read ty
regards
So when the army gives a soldier guns, do they expect him to become a Rambo and head-on charge/lonewolf everyone, or do they expect the necessary discipline and decorum required to carry out the objectives of the military operation?
expecting a sniper to be super effective with a minigun would be too much.
You can't expect pubs to behave and function like a military strike team. Strike teams are premade. If you don't want suicide bombers in your team, go make a premade before queuing for pvp.
What if someone posted that Scoundrels or Saboteurs should stop queuing for dungeons and skirmishes?
BTW, i don't see you reply to koralzombie's post
Interesting post and I wanna respond before reading the whole thread because I have a point. Executioner can be a pretty effective build if played correctly. It does not have to be a suicide bomb.
Critique the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of this. It is what I do in pugs (on my mi exec) and it works really really well to the goal of achieving match wins.
Gate comes down at start of match and I rush immediately to the node closest to the enemy spawn (back cap). Before I emerge in line-of-sight to the node, I stealth. Gives me just enough time to LB the player that is usually standing there alone. Stealth>LB>SB>DF>ITC. If the target is dead after the LB, I will still SB>DF simply to clear away the possible soulforge rez. If the target survives the LB. the rest of the rotation will kill him unless he is either highly skilled or highly geared. In which case the rotation continues: (stealth>LB>SB>DF>ITC) dodge to refill stealth bar as ITC runs out and encounter CDs count down, then essentially repeat until they are dead.
If there is more than one target or if other members of that team rush to the node than I have effectively given my own team a man advantage on the other nodes. This system works like a charm and will win almost every pug with any losses due to idiotic team mates or or very highly skilled and geared enemy teams. I think the MI Exec is uniquely suited to this role. The one-shot kill helps to do more than contest or troll a node, it helps to dominate them. It works so well it is almost boring.
So, in my opinion, mi exec is a great build if played correctly and really should not be discouraged.
I do think players need reminded that the point is WINNING THE MATCH period. I run across three kinds of TRs (specifically of the mi exec build): 1. The hapless tr who fails entirely to manage his cooldowns and stealth meter and is one of the easiest opponents to kill/control. 2. The TR who has a 10 to 1 kill/death ratio each match but also loses almost every match becase they suck at domination. 3. The skilled TR who is a key factor in winning close matches.
The TR already has a role. It's a backcapper or a combat assist. If you're neither, then the only role you're playing in that match is that of a deadweight. All three paths are capable of playing any of the both. You think top-level TR players in hectic premade level matches get only a handful of kills because they don't know how to stick a knife into the other's gut? Fact be told they do it better than anyone else. That's why they're top level players. But they drop that aspect of the class and concentrate on another.
Why?
Because that's how domination is played.
That's like saying everyone in public schools are destined to be losers, and the only people worth teaching anything are the rich kids in private schools. I've already laid down from post1 that the average TR experience has been dropping much lower than should be expected in PuGs. Go read it.
I'd agree that DUMB scoundrels or saboteuers with no basic knowledge on how that queued content is supposed to be played should stop queuing for dungeons and skirmishes, or precisely stop queuing in stuff like Tiamat, and go read and study the guides and manuals first.
Which is exactly the point of this thread, thank you. The criticism against the "1s" and the "2s", and particularly the "2s", since as I've said, what these type of TRs are doing is simply nothing but using others as meatshields.
It's on the exact same level of stupidity as people standing on top of pillars.
You're not teaching public school kids. You're just scolding them and telling them to stop going to school.
My problem with your post is that you stated it as if everybody who has been playing executioner or someone trying to learn the path is destined to screw up and utterly fail to become a dead weight.
This is a hate post. Not something that encourages other players to became better teammates.
This has been stated many times in other replies, You assume that the only right way to play TR is the way you play it. You don't reply/acknowledge to those posts mentioning this. And why the hell someone who joined the forum Jan 2015 call everybody else Padawans. I didn't know only takes 2 months to become a Jedi Master, unless...