The nerf on opressive darkness was needed but i think you guys did more tham needed.. like.. its doing 150~300 damange only.. its not viable for pvp, pve.. and at this way is better to remove the feat and put another becouse make no sense, just my opinion playing as TR since beta.
Definitely not viable for PVP. But for PVE, I believe we'll be seeing people using Oppressive Darkness a lot even if it stays like this. It procs each time we have combat advantage against the enemy, and that's pretty easy to set up. A Guardian Fighter can just Mark things and we immediately get combat advantage even outside of Stealth. This will be particularly useful for Scoundrels or Executioners who tend to go in and out of Stealth a lot, and use DF outside of Stealth. That extra 150 - 300 damage can go a long way.
But of course, I'm not saying I'm satisfied with it. Personally I think it can and should be better. At the very least, if it's going to be additional weapon damage only, at least increase the amount of damage we gain per rank. 10% would be a good start, in my opinion.
Definitely not viable for PVP. But for PVE, I believe we'll be seeing people using Oppressive Darkness a lot even if it stays like this. It procs each time we have combat advantage against the enemy, and that's pretty easy to set up. A Guardian Fighter can just Mark things and we immediately get combat advantage even outside of Stealth. This will be particularly useful for Scoundrels or Executioners who tend to go in and out of Stealth a lot, and use DF outside of Stealth. That extra 150 - 300 damage can go a long way.
But of course, I'm not saying I'm satisfied with it. Personally I think it can and should be better. At the very least, if it's going to be additional weapon damage only, at least increase the amount of damage we gain per rank. 10% would be a good start, in my opinion.
If my target had max 50k HP as the mod5 pvp is.. it would be good, but with GF/OP getting near 180k HP with the new set and full cons, with 45%+ DR, a 100~300 piercing damange is rly no sense.. including the fact that i need to be stealthed or proc combat advantage from dailies/friendly CW/GF/GWF to use it. I rly dont want to be agressive about it, just giving my opinion that opressive darkness was OP, ok, but now its useless, and that becouse they didint tested the change for a good damange for all the sides, just listened the other classes that come here cry about ''bugs'' and reduced the damange of the skill til it be a joke feat.
PLEASE nerf this because its not good for my CW?
PLEASE fix that because my GWF is having a hard time?
Please blah blah blah blah bleh bleh?
Not tired yet?
Nope, I play TR GWF and HR mostly, but also have played 60 DC, The rogue is the lowest gearscore and has the least progression ( least boons, no arti gear, Gauntgrym pve gear) But she deals well over double the damage of the others while having higher survivability with ITC and stealth. Play the other classes at 60 and experience them to see what they mean.
Definitely not viable for PVP. But for PVE, I believe we'll be seeing people using Oppressive Darkness a lot even if it stays like this. It procs each time we have combat advantage against the enemy, and that's pretty easy to set up. A Guardian Fighter can just Mark things and we immediately get combat advantage even outside of Stealth. This will be particularly useful for Scoundrels or Executioners who tend to go in and out of Stealth a lot, and use DF outside of Stealth. That extra 150 - 300 damage can go a long way.
But of course, I'm not saying I'm satisfied with it. Personally I think it can and should be better. At the very least, if it's going to be additional weapon damage only, at least increase the amount of damage we gain per rank. 10% would be a good start, in my opinion.
Haven't tested OD much on preview but I can say that Exe still deals really great damage and with our smoke the higher level packs aren't too much of an issue.
Definitely not viable for PVP. But for PVE, I believe we'll be seeing people using Oppressive Darkness a lot even if it stays like this. It procs each time we have combat advantage against the enemy, and that's pretty easy to set up. A Guardian Fighter can just Mark things and we immediately get combat advantage even outside of Stealth. This will be particularly useful for Scoundrels or Executioners who tend to go in and out of Stealth a lot, and use DF outside of Stealth. That extra 150 - 300 damage can go a long way.
But of course, I'm not saying I'm satisfied with it. Personally I think it can and should be better. At the very least, if it's going to be additional weapon damage only, at least increase the amount of damage we gain per rank. 10% would be a good start, in my opinion.
I could agree with this if we were talking about melee HR. TR is high damage, high cooldowns. OD should have been at least 5% total damage or maybe even 3-500% weapon damage ((would make this something like an extra 1500-4000). It's a lvl 65 skill and it should be worth leveling for. I think they also have to be careful of why they are calling it piercing damage - if it's "per hit" on at-wills as well as encounters then I think the other classes have a valid right to complain. IMO the power should work on encounters only and should be very similar to SoD. (but half of SoD's potential power assuming that SoD doesnt go to mod 6 as it is now).
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
If my target had max 50k HP as the mod5 pvp is.. it would be good, but with GF/OP getting near 180k HP with the new set and full cons, with 45%+ DR, a 100~300 piercing damange is rly no sense.. including the fact that i need to be stealthed or proc combat advantage from dailies/friendly CW/GF/GWF to use it. I rly dont want to be agressive about it, just giving my opinion that opressive darkness was OP, ok, but now its useless, and that becouse they didint tested the change for a good damange for all the sides, just listened the other classes that come here cry about ''bugs'' and reduced the damange of the skill til it be a joke feat.
I was speaking in a PVE POV. For PVP, there are other ways to get combat advantage, such as flanking the opponent. But like I said, in PVP, this will be a tad harder to proc. In PVE however, a lot of players will use this CF because we have no other CFs that directly boost our DPS apart from First Strike, and the WK's Dagger Threat.
DF paired with the GF's Supreme Mark will cause you to proc this the entire time in PVE. It's still possible in PVP but there's no guarantee you will be grouped with a GF unless you queue with them beforehand.
But it really would feel more reliable if it proc-ed at least 45% - 50% of our Weapon Damage as Piercing Damage. Piercing Damage can go a long way against high DR opponents.
On another note. It's also possible to maintain Combat Advantage even outside of Stealth with the MI's Infliltrator's Action. 4 ranks of this means 20 seconds of Combat Advantage outside of Stealth. A setup like this would make the Oppressive Darkness CF work for TRs outside of Stealth even without a GF.
Play this with a Scoundrel and you get to maximize the amount of DFs you can land against the opponent which will, in turn, dish out a LOT of OD procs, while you benefit from stunning your targets with Concussive Strikes, Skullcracker, Smoke Bomb. Popping a Courage Breaker against an opponent would, theoretically, lock them in place with 120% decreased move speed and damage.
This should help burn those high HP targets down with the amount of piercing damage you can deal with OD + Infiltrator's Action. Pop a DC Artifact and the combo starts. Theoretically, this could work in PVP as well.
I was speaking in a PVE POV. For PVP, there are other ways to get combat advantage, such as flanking the opponent. But like I said, in PVP, this will be a tad harder to proc. In PVE however, a lot of players will use this CF because we have no other CFs that directly boost our DPS apart from First Strike, and the WK's Dagger Threat.
DF paired with the GF's Supreme Mark will cause you to proc this the entire time in PVE. It's still possible in PVP but there's no guarantee you will be grouped with a GF unless you queue with them beforehand.
But it really would feel more reliable if it proc-ed at least 45% - 50% of our Weapon Damage as Piercing Damage. Piercing Damage can go a long way against high DR opponents.
On another note. It's also possible to maintain Combat Advantage even outside of Stealth with the MI's Infliltrator's Action. 4 ranks of this means 20 seconds of Combat Advantage outside of Stealth. A setup like this would make the Oppressive Darkness CF work for TRs outside of Stealth even without a GF.
Play this with a Scoundrel and you get to maximize the amount of DFs you can land against the opponent which will, in turn, dish out a LOT of OD procs, while you benefit from stunning your targets with Concussive Strikes, Skullcracker, Smoke Bomb. Popping a Courage Breaker against an opponent would, theoretically, lock them in place with 120% decreased move speed and damage.
This should help burn those high HP targets down with the amount of piercing damage you can deal with OD + Infiltrator's Action. Pop a DC Artifact and the combo starts. Theoretically, this could work in PVP as well.
See this kind of thinking is what we need more of. taking skills people dont use as much and finding how they should be used.
Just FYI, TRs have no power/feat that grants stun, we only get daze(and one daily prone), there is a big difference between a daze and a stun.
VP supposedly stuns the target briefly when used from stealth, but only if you don't have the feat "determined pursuit" which will block this from happening. I cannot confirm this and I suspect that if it does stun at all then it is an instantaneous action more like an interrupt but I could be mistaken.
totally rework scoundrel dazes in some other survivability tools.
the capstone proc before the daze of the encounter basically nerfing the duration of the encounter daze to the one of the capstone
As pointed out by raydan and some others as well, the latest nerfs to these abilities can now cause other powers (e.g. dazing strike, shadow strike from stealth) to actually perform worse with the feat and the capstone than they do at default -- and also worse for the scoundrel than they do for the executioner or the saboteur.
There are some possible solutions.
A: Similarly nerf the daze duration of shadow strike from stealth and dazing strike -- this will retain the scoundrels current dazing capabilities in relation to the other trees, but will significantly reduce all three and render the scoundrel ineffective in general in PvP considering its more limited stealth capabilities and significantly lower damage. Shadow strike should never have had its daze duration increased in the first place. At most it should have a .5 second daze at rank 1 increased by .5 each rank up and half as effective on players -- it should have had better damage and not a better daze duration.
B: Make it so that concussive strike and skullcracker did not take default over the superior daze of a stealthed shadow strike or dazing strike. This would reduce the effectiveness of the scoundrel which is easily arguable the weaker tree of the TR and would render them obsolete in a general sense.
C: Make it so that concussive strike and skullcracker are not spent when the other abilities also produces a daze. A similar adjustment was made in relation to saboteurs capstone and this request seems very reasonable. This would increase the current daze abilities of the scoundrel beyond live and so some other adjustments would be necessary as they could then sustain a perma daze.
Scrub skullcracker and concussive strike and replace them with something else. In case of skullcracker I cannot stress that as a capstone it is important that it work on all target situations. Currently this capstone does nothing against control immune targets and is easily rendered useless by the GWF unstoppable. Be aware that the scoundrel TR is currently behind like geared SW/CW/GWF/HR/DC in single target damage on control immune targets (i.e. virtually every boss and elite).
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onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
VP supposedly stuns the target briefly when used from stealth, but only if you don't have the feat "determined pursuit" which will block this from happening. I cannot confirm this and I suspect that if it does stun at all then it is an instantaneous action more like an interrupt but I could be mistaken.
You are right VP does have a small stun(less than 1 second minus whatever control resist you have), which acts more of an interrupt, and only occurs if you activate the second time while in stealth. This encounter is only available to one of two paths for TRs.
You are right VP does have a small stun(less than 1 second minus whatever control resist you have), which acts more of an interrupt, and only occurs if you activate the second time while in stealth. This encounter is only available to one of two paths for TRs.
And don't forget, if you have purchased the feat "determined pursuit" it will block the stun.
I was speaking in a PVE POV. For PVP, there are other ways to get combat advantage, such as flanking the opponent. But like I said, in PVP, this will be a tad harder to proc. In PVE however, a lot of players will use this CF because we have no other CFs that directly boost our DPS apart from First Strike, and the WK's Dagger Threat.
DF paired with the GF's Supreme Mark will cause you to proc this the entire time in PVE. It's still possible in PVP but there's no guarantee you will be grouped with a GF unless you queue with them beforehand.
But it really would feel more reliable if it proc-ed at least 45% - 50% of our Weapon Damage as Piercing Damage. Piercing Damage can go a long way against high DR opponents.
On another note. It's also possible to maintain Combat Advantage even outside of Stealth with the MI's Infliltrator's Action. 4 ranks of this means 20 seconds of Combat Advantage outside of Stealth. A setup like this would make the Oppressive Darkness CF work for TRs outside of Stealth even without a GF.
Play this with a Scoundrel and you get to maximize the amount of DFs you can land against the opponent which will, in turn, dish out a LOT of OD procs, while you benefit from stunning your targets with Concussive Strikes, Skullcracker, Smoke Bomb. Popping a Courage Breaker against an opponent would, theoretically, lock them in place with 120% decreased move speed and damage.
This should help burn those high HP targets down with the amount of piercing damage you can deal with OD + Infiltrator's Action. Pop a DC Artifact and the combo starts. Theoretically, this could work in PVP as well.
This time pls dont delete my post.
As i said last time, 100~300 piercing damange is lower tham 5% weapon damange atm, and its rly low, 5% is ridiculous comparated with other feats we have, as i did in a great explanation that someone deleted and i should report to a superior, becouse i didint said any ofensive thing.
Opressive darkness is useless now and the hypoteses of a scoundrel TR with the other nerfs that came, is just a dream.
The fact is if you add the opressive darkness now, on mod 5 that people have max 50k, it will be useless in the same way doing only 5% weapon damange. It should be like 50% weapon damange that gonna make 2000~4000k damange every hit with LEGENDARY artifact weapons and 12k+ power, As Shadowy Oportunity does with 75% weapon damange as a feat doing 3000~6000 on preview with the same equipments.
Its fair against 100~200k hp targets on a pvp considering the situation we were talking to need the use of infiltrator action and other ways to keep combat advantage.
Bug: SoD Procing only on encounters while the tooltip say ALL POWERS, so pls if its intended change tooltip.
If it's intended then they will have completely killed 2 rogue paths. Exec will be dead and Scoundrel is already dead. We have reported this "bug" week after week and I for one am getting tired of giving feedback and testing things just to see the feedback ignored and the nerf bat swinging wildly. Cryptic doesnt seem to be addressing the real issues just appeasing crowds with no idea as to how things actually work.
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
Reduce critical severity for all classes in PvP (keep PvE the same). It will reduce the crits mainly from TRs and CW who run EotS, but will allow the game to be played with more skill than just one-shotting from stealth or burst damage.
Furthermore, high critical severity in the early game is not fun or balanced. I see twinked up classes <L60 running greater/perfect vorps. This is ruining the game for early level PvP.
If it is not fun or balanced for the new gamer, they are less likely to continue PvPing, leading to a greater loss to the PvP community.
Actually THE issue here is really just TR getting 100% critical in stealth here. Again TR balancing is NOT that difficult TBH. Its pretty easy to make changes to TR without hurting PVE here is what is needed for balance:
1) Stealth provides a *100% critical strike chance NOT +100%. What this means is it doubles your crit chance. Have 30%? Its now 60% in stealth. Have 50%? Now its 100% in stealth. This reduces the OPness of it early on, still allows PVE TRs who CAN get near 50% crit to have 100% crit - thus hardly affecting PVE DPS at all. This balances PVP ALOT since now TRs cant just ignore crit since they get it for free, it actually benefits them more to stack more crit.
2) Stealth reduces movement speed by 20% as a BASE. TRs have so many good movement speed buffs that can easily make up for this, this also hardly affects PVE at all. If people are complaining due to pvp set bonuses and such, you can always extend the BASE duration of stealth by 1 second to "adjust" for this movement speed reduction - which actually HELPS PVE DPS but this movement speed reduction makes it MUCH more difficult for a TR to BOTH DPS AND avoid damage. Now they have to choose more carefully avoiding damage OR dealing damage but not both.
3) Lashing Blade - the "in stealth bonus" here should be a 75% REDUCED CD RATHER than 50% more severity. This BUFFS the "DPS" of the encounter but reduces the massive burst it offers.
I guess #4 would be fixing Knife's Edge so it only procs off the first attack OR even activation rather than hits. This removes the "insta reset" on encounters that TRs have with BB.
DONE. Buffed TR PVE DPS, adjusted burst damage and tankiness in PVP.
with the lost of set bonus i really dont think other nerfs are needed. If something fix the not in patch note changes.. like shadow of demise and buff a bit that joke of oppressive darkness
with the lost of set bonus i really dont think other nerfs are needed. If something fix the not in patch note changes.. like shadow of demise and buff a bit that joke of oppressive darkness
51 out of the first 80 on Leaderboard is Tr rest is 11 is Hr 6 is cw 7 dc 4 gwf 1 gf and 0 sw.
I REALLY doubt that just removing the PVP set bonus is going to fix ALL the issues with TR. Especially since not many have yet to explore ultra deflect builds which could be painfully broken.
I think the leaderboard shows that SOMETHING needs to be done about TR and not just "lets see how the set bonus removal affets them" because ALL classes lost their bonuses.
GWFs lost 9.5% deflect and a movement speed debuff on encounters.
GFs lose over 30% increased block meter AND run speed - which was MASSIVE for the class.
So TRs losing more stealth and damge from stealth, its equivalent to every other class. And given how TR performs now, its NOT enough of a change.
Actually THE issue here is really just TR getting 100% critical in stealth here. Again TR balancing is NOT that difficult TBH. Its pretty easy to make changes to TR without hurting PVE here is what is needed for balance:
1) Stealth provides a *100% critical strike chance NOT +100%. What this means is it doubles your crit chance. Have 30%? Its now 60% in stealth. Have 50%? Now its 100% in stealth. This reduces the OPness of it early on, still allows PVE TRs who CAN get near 50% crit to have 100% crit - thus hardly affecting PVE DPS at all. This balances PVP ALOT since now TRs cant just ignore crit since they get it for free, it actually benefits them more to stack more crit.
2) Stealth reduces movement speed by 20% as a BASE. TRs have so many good movement speed buffs that can easily make up for this, this also hardly affects PVE at all. If people are complaining due to pvp set bonuses and such, you can always extend the BASE duration of stealth by 1 second to "adjust" for this movement speed reduction - which actually HELPS PVE DPS but this movement speed reduction makes it MUCH more difficult for a TR to BOTH DPS AND avoid damage. Now they have to choose more carefully avoiding damage OR dealing damage but not both.
3) Lashing Blade - the "in stealth bonus" here should be a 75% REDUCED CD RATHER than 50% more severity. This BUFFS the "DPS" of the encounter but reduces the massive burst it offers.
I guess #4 would be fixing Knife's Edge so it only procs off the first attack OR even activation rather than hits. This removes the "insta reset" on encounters that TRs have with BB.
DONE. Buffed TR PVE DPS, adjusted burst damage and tankiness in PVP.
I really don't like the idea of nerfing survivability and damage at the same time. First should be:
1. Fix all TR bugs (SoD already fixed on preview).
also perma stun is already dead on preview
then you can tinker with reducing damage or survivability. Not both at the same time. Remember when they did that to your GWF?? Also they are buffing up the weaker classes for pvp so its already going to be double trouble.
I understand where you are coming from with your stealth crit nerf but we aren't goign to be able to stack crit like in live. The new curve is brutal.
I will again state that i think the real problem is the fact that we can perma stealth still. The fact that glooming cut can do 15k plus damage and not take you out of stealth is crazy.
Also a TR slowed in stealth is gonna be toast in pvp. Just try pvp'ing without any movement buffs, it is night and day. and that is WITHOUT a added slow in stealth. You will be perma stunned by every GWF with a clue.
I am not againt balancing but I really really hate when they do damage AND survivability nerfs at the same time. Add the buffs to other classes going into effect at the same time and we have mod 2-4 all over again
I REALLY doubt that just removing the PVP set bonus is going to fix ALL the issues with TR. Especially since not many have yet to explore ultra deflect builds which could be painfully broken.
I think the leaderboard shows that SOMETHING needs to be done about TR and not just "lets see how the set bonus removal affets them" because ALL classes lost their bonuses.
GWFs lost 9.5% deflect and a movement speed debuff on encounters.
GFs lose over 30% increased block meter AND run speed - which was MASSIVE for the class.
So TRs losing more stealth and damge from stealth, its equivalent to every other class. And given how TR performs now, its NOT enough of a change.
^ This, Everyone loses their set bonus, not just rogue, we already can have stealth basically perma uptime (which is something people complain about nonstop) so removing the stealth duration buff in PvP is a good thing.
also to those complaining about how "weak" exe is with SoD only on encounters, I can lashing blade from stealth then spam some CoS or flurry, and still burst someone for well over 50-100% of their HP. its just as stupid strong as ever.
I really don't like the idea of nerfing survivability and damage at the same time. First should be:
1. Fix all TR bugs (SoD already fixed on preview).
also perma stun is already dead on preview
then you can tinker with reducing damage or survivability. Not both at the same time. Remember when they did that to your GWF?? Also they are buffing up the weaker classes for pvp so its already going to be double trouble.
I understand where you are coming from with your stealth crit nerf but we aren't goign to be able to stack crit like in live. The new curve is brutal.
I will again state that i think the real problem is the fact that we can perma stealth still. The fact that glooming cut can do 15k plus damage and not take you out of stealth is crazy.
Also a TR slowed in stealth is gonna be toast in pvp. Just try pvp'ing without any movement buffs, it is night and day. and that is WITHOUT a added slow in stealth. You will be perma stunned by every GWF with a clue.
I am not againt balancing but I really really hate when they do damage AND survivability nerfs at the same time. Add the buffs to other classes going into effect at the same time and we have mod 2-4 all over again
Id challenge you to take a deeper look at what I am saying because I think you are getting lost in the generics here by saying "damage and survivability" nerfs.
I am going to re-post what I wrote in the NON-official thread:
Some of the issues with the class are:
1) Movement Speed is too great - allowing for them to contest nodes with ease, playing cat and mouse both able to deal damage and dodge away/out run enemies while invisible. Nerfing movement IN stealth by a flat 20% (to 80%) is just like a GF holding block, with feats TRs can easily buff this up WELL above 100% and still outrun most players however it would be toned down from live just a smidge - dont forget Sneak Attack will have a rank 4 as well as Skillful Infiltrator which will provide another 15% run speed when feated.
CURRENT: 100% + 30% + 15% = 145% (not including Darks or Tact REd - pvp feat)
NEW: 80% + 40% + 20% = 140% (not including etc etc)
So its not even THAT much of a nerf AT ALL. Basically just compensates for rank 4 AND if you want to slot something like First Strike or Tactics its much more of a trade off now than before when you could slot ONE movement feat and STILL outrun targets in stealth.
2) Stealth Crit Chance - This is very problematic because TRs can just ignore Crit Chance and Stack Power/Recovery which is part of the issue with balance right now. If they were forced to stack more Crit, it would be at the loss of power as well. So this is a proper balance IMO. Still getting near 100% crit wont be unattainable but it will be more of a tradeoff - which it SHOULD be just like it is for ANY other class.
3) Lashing Blade - this combined with stealth crit combined with First Srike AND SoD is just rather silly to me. Basically Lashing Blade USED to have 100% crit in stealth but since they gave that TO stealth they now gave this a 50% severity bonus?! I mean thats a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> Perfect Vorpal! This ability is next to useless in PVE because the long CD and in PVP its too much burst, giving it shorter CD in stealth makes it MORE viable for PVE and still VERY good for PVP. (Imagine if this was like a 10-12 sec CD now... It would STILL be very good just require some tactics to use a second time for the kill)
4) Knife's Edge - this is just stupid it hasnt been fixed (to my knowledge) yet on PTR.
So I think overall you are missing the point, looking at movement speed, the nerf is basically just a module 6 adjustment to prevent them from being STUPID OP. I just want it to be fair TBH, I am not looking to over nerf or over buff anything. We have had plenty of modules with over nerf and over buff and its not fun. Its great for 2 weeks them just boring as heck because noone wants to play.
I think the above changes fix some of the broken mechanics and what I am actually proposing is not much of a nerf in any catagory. Even the run speed nerf, you have feats that EASILY make up for it. Even on the PTR the TR is the tankiest class. Its rather silly.
Notice I never said nerf deflect, nerf severity nerf DR, nerf CC or w.e I am MERELY trying to build a balanced PVP.
Facts are that None of the TOP TRs are even playing Execs are Scoundrels anyways. Most are playing SABO and relying on Shadowy Opportunity to do most of their damage COMBINED with 100% crit COMBINED with Knife's edge to reset CDs making them unkillable.
I dont mind SABOs being perma stealth but should they also be perma stealth AND EASILY outrun every other class? NO.
I also dont mind Execs doing VERY good damage, but should they be able to 1 shot other classes with LB+SoD? I dont think thats fair either.
TR should have multiple build options but right now are the king of everything. They have all the tools to handle nearly any encounter. The Leaderboard stats are just facts. Nothing is materially changing in any way from LIVE to Mod 6 that does not also affect other classes (like Regen), thus I see no REAL improvement for the PVP situation here... Its currently going to be exactly like LIVE just with a new "flavor" since no regen and now we have 3v3s - which I wont even get started at how OP TR will be there TOO.....
This feat is bugged on LIVE as well, Knife's Edge is proccing off ALL hits on Blood Bath literally instantly resetting ALL cooldowns.
This allows TRs to never die using ITC pre-BB then using BB in which we cant target them or deal damage, and then they can ITC after and re-stealth with encounters.
Isnt this supposed to just work on activating the daily? Not on each hit? But its activating on EACH hit of blood bath......
Comments
The nerf on opressive darkness was needed but i think you guys did more tham needed.. like.. its doing 150~300 damange only.. its not viable for pvp, pve.. and at this way is better to remove the feat and put another becouse make no sense, just my opinion playing as TR since beta.
Thx.
But of course, I'm not saying I'm satisfied with it. Personally I think it can and should be better. At the very least, if it's going to be additional weapon damage only, at least increase the amount of damage we gain per rank. 10% would be a good start, in my opinion.
If my target had max 50k HP as the mod5 pvp is.. it would be good, but with GF/OP getting near 180k HP with the new set and full cons, with 45%+ DR, a 100~300 piercing damange is rly no sense.. including the fact that i need to be stealthed or proc combat advantage from dailies/friendly CW/GF/GWF to use it. I rly dont want to be agressive about it, just giving my opinion that opressive darkness was OP, ok, but now its useless, and that becouse they didint tested the change for a good damange for all the sides, just listened the other classes that come here cry about ''bugs'' and reduced the damange of the skill til it be a joke feat.
Nope, I play TR GWF and HR mostly, but also have played 60 DC, The rogue is the lowest gearscore and has the least progression ( least boons, no arti gear, Gauntgrym pve gear) But she deals well over double the damage of the others while having higher survivability with ITC and stealth. Play the other classes at 60 and experience them to see what they mean.
Haven't tested OD much on preview but I can say that Exe still deals really great damage and with our smoke the higher level packs aren't too much of an issue.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
I could agree with this if we were talking about melee HR. TR is high damage, high cooldowns. OD should have been at least 5% total damage or maybe even 3-500% weapon damage ((would make this something like an extra 1500-4000). It's a lvl 65 skill and it should be worth leveling for. I think they also have to be careful of why they are calling it piercing damage - if it's "per hit" on at-wills as well as encounters then I think the other classes have a valid right to complain. IMO the power should work on encounters only and should be very similar to SoD. (but half of SoD's potential power assuming that SoD doesnt go to mod 6 as it is now).
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
I was speaking in a PVE POV. For PVP, there are other ways to get combat advantage, such as flanking the opponent. But like I said, in PVP, this will be a tad harder to proc. In PVE however, a lot of players will use this CF because we have no other CFs that directly boost our DPS apart from First Strike, and the WK's Dagger Threat.
DF paired with the GF's Supreme Mark will cause you to proc this the entire time in PVE. It's still possible in PVP but there's no guarantee you will be grouped with a GF unless you queue with them beforehand.
But it really would feel more reliable if it proc-ed at least 45% - 50% of our Weapon Damage as Piercing Damage. Piercing Damage can go a long way against high DR opponents.
On another note. It's also possible to maintain Combat Advantage even outside of Stealth with the MI's Infliltrator's Action. 4 ranks of this means 20 seconds of Combat Advantage outside of Stealth. A setup like this would make the Oppressive Darkness CF work for TRs outside of Stealth even without a GF.
At-Wills: DF, CoS.
Encounters: Smoke Bomb, Shadow Strike, ITC.
Class Features: Infiltrator's Action, Oppressive Darkness.
Dailies: Bloodbath, Courage Breaker.
Play this with a Scoundrel and you get to maximize the amount of DFs you can land against the opponent which will, in turn, dish out a LOT of OD procs, while you benefit from stunning your targets with Concussive Strikes, Skullcracker, Smoke Bomb. Popping a Courage Breaker against an opponent would, theoretically, lock them in place with 120% decreased move speed and damage.
This should help burn those high HP targets down with the amount of piercing damage you can deal with OD + Infiltrator's Action. Pop a DC Artifact and the combo starts.
See this kind of thinking is what we need more of. taking skills people dont use as much and finding how they should be used.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
VP supposedly stuns the target briefly when used from stealth, but only if you don't have the feat "determined pursuit" which will block this from happening. I cannot confirm this and I suspect that if it does stun at all then it is an instantaneous action more like an interrupt but I could be mistaken.
the capstone proc before the daze of the encounter basically nerfing the duration of the encounter daze to the one of the capstone
As pointed out by raydan and some others as well, the latest nerfs to these abilities can now cause other powers (e.g. dazing strike, shadow strike from stealth) to actually perform worse with the feat and the capstone than they do at default -- and also worse for the scoundrel than they do for the executioner or the saboteur.
There are some possible solutions.
A: Similarly nerf the daze duration of shadow strike from stealth and dazing strike -- this will retain the scoundrels current dazing capabilities in relation to the other trees, but will significantly reduce all three and render the scoundrel ineffective in general in PvP considering its more limited stealth capabilities and significantly lower damage. Shadow strike should never have had its daze duration increased in the first place. At most it should have a .5 second daze at rank 1 increased by .5 each rank up and half as effective on players -- it should have had better damage and not a better daze duration.
B: Make it so that concussive strike and skullcracker did not take default over the superior daze of a stealthed shadow strike or dazing strike. This would reduce the effectiveness of the scoundrel which is easily arguable the weaker tree of the TR and would render them obsolete in a general sense.
C: Make it so that concussive strike and skullcracker are not spent when the other abilities also produces a daze. A similar adjustment was made in relation to saboteurs capstone and this request seems very reasonable. This would increase the current daze abilities of the scoundrel beyond live and so some other adjustments would be necessary as they could then sustain a perma daze.
You are right VP does have a small stun(less than 1 second minus whatever control resist you have), which acts more of an interrupt, and only occurs if you activate the second time while in stealth. This encounter is only available to one of two paths for TRs.
And don't forget, if you have purchased the feat "determined pursuit" it will block the stun.
This time pls dont delete my post.
As i said last time, 100~300 piercing damange is lower tham 5% weapon damange atm, and its rly low, 5% is ridiculous comparated with other feats we have, as i did in a great explanation that someone deleted and i should report to a superior, becouse i didint said any ofensive thing.
Opressive darkness is useless now and the hypoteses of a scoundrel TR with the other nerfs that came, is just a dream.
The fact is if you add the opressive darkness now, on mod 5 that people have max 50k, it will be useless in the same way doing only 5% weapon damange. It should be like 50% weapon damange that gonna make 2000~4000k damange every hit with LEGENDARY artifact weapons and 12k+ power, As Shadowy Oportunity does with 75% weapon damange as a feat doing 3000~6000 on preview with the same equipments.
Its fair against 100~200k hp targets on a pvp considering the situation we were talking to need the use of infiltrator action and other ways to keep combat advantage.
If it's intended then they will have completely killed 2 rogue paths. Exec will be dead and Scoundrel is already dead. We have reported this "bug" week after week and I for one am getting tired of giving feedback and testing things just to see the feedback ignored and the nerf bat swinging wildly. Cryptic doesnt seem to be addressing the real issues just appeasing crowds with no idea as to how things actually work.
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
Actually THE issue here is really just TR getting 100% critical in stealth here. Again TR balancing is NOT that difficult TBH. Its pretty easy to make changes to TR without hurting PVE here is what is needed for balance:
1) Stealth provides a *100% critical strike chance NOT +100%. What this means is it doubles your crit chance. Have 30%? Its now 60% in stealth. Have 50%? Now its 100% in stealth. This reduces the OPness of it early on, still allows PVE TRs who CAN get near 50% crit to have 100% crit - thus hardly affecting PVE DPS at all. This balances PVP ALOT since now TRs cant just ignore crit since they get it for free, it actually benefits them more to stack more crit.
2) Stealth reduces movement speed by 20% as a BASE. TRs have so many good movement speed buffs that can easily make up for this, this also hardly affects PVE at all. If people are complaining due to pvp set bonuses and such, you can always extend the BASE duration of stealth by 1 second to "adjust" for this movement speed reduction - which actually HELPS PVE DPS but this movement speed reduction makes it MUCH more difficult for a TR to BOTH DPS AND avoid damage. Now they have to choose more carefully avoiding damage OR dealing damage but not both.
3) Lashing Blade - the "in stealth bonus" here should be a 75% REDUCED CD RATHER than 50% more severity. This BUFFS the "DPS" of the encounter but reduces the massive burst it offers.
I guess #4 would be fixing Knife's Edge so it only procs off the first attack OR even activation rather than hits. This removes the "insta reset" on encounters that TRs have with BB.
DONE. Buffed TR PVE DPS, adjusted burst damage and tankiness in PVP.
With this in mind:
I REALLY doubt that just removing the PVP set bonus is going to fix ALL the issues with TR. Especially since not many have yet to explore ultra deflect builds which could be painfully broken.
I think the leaderboard shows that SOMETHING needs to be done about TR and not just "lets see how the set bonus removal affets them" because ALL classes lost their bonuses.
GWFs lost 9.5% deflect and a movement speed debuff on encounters.
GFs lose over 30% increased block meter AND run speed - which was MASSIVE for the class.
So TRs losing more stealth and damge from stealth, its equivalent to every other class. And given how TR performs now, its NOT enough of a change.
I really don't like the idea of nerfing survivability and damage at the same time. First should be:
1. Fix all TR bugs (SoD already fixed on preview).
also perma stun is already dead on preview
then you can tinker with reducing damage or survivability. Not both at the same time. Remember when they did that to your GWF?? Also they are buffing up the weaker classes for pvp so its already going to be double trouble.
I understand where you are coming from with your stealth crit nerf but we aren't goign to be able to stack crit like in live. The new curve is brutal.
I will again state that i think the real problem is the fact that we can perma stealth still. The fact that glooming cut can do 15k plus damage and not take you out of stealth is crazy.
Also a TR slowed in stealth is gonna be toast in pvp. Just try pvp'ing without any movement buffs, it is night and day. and that is WITHOUT a added slow in stealth. You will be perma stunned by every GWF with a clue.
I am not againt balancing but I really really hate when they do damage AND survivability nerfs at the same time. Add the buffs to other classes going into effect at the same time and we have mod 2-4 all over again
^ This, Everyone loses their set bonus, not just rogue, we already can have stealth basically perma uptime (which is something people complain about nonstop) so removing the stealth duration buff in PvP is a good thing.
also to those complaining about how "weak" exe is with SoD only on encounters, I can lashing blade from stealth then spam some CoS or flurry, and still burst someone for well over 50-100% of their HP. its just as stupid strong as ever.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Id challenge you to take a deeper look at what I am saying because I think you are getting lost in the generics here by saying "damage and survivability" nerfs.
I am going to re-post what I wrote in the NON-official thread:
Some of the issues with the class are:
1) Movement Speed is too great - allowing for them to contest nodes with ease, playing cat and mouse both able to deal damage and dodge away/out run enemies while invisible. Nerfing movement IN stealth by a flat 20% (to 80%) is just like a GF holding block, with feats TRs can easily buff this up WELL above 100% and still outrun most players however it would be toned down from live just a smidge - dont forget Sneak Attack will have a rank 4 as well as Skillful Infiltrator which will provide another 15% run speed when feated.
CURRENT: 100% + 30% + 15% = 145% (not including Darks or Tact REd - pvp feat)
NEW: 80% + 40% + 20% = 140% (not including etc etc)
So its not even THAT much of a nerf AT ALL. Basically just compensates for rank 4 AND if you want to slot something like First Strike or Tactics its much more of a trade off now than before when you could slot ONE movement feat and STILL outrun targets in stealth.
2) Stealth Crit Chance - This is very problematic because TRs can just ignore Crit Chance and Stack Power/Recovery which is part of the issue with balance right now. If they were forced to stack more Crit, it would be at the loss of power as well. So this is a proper balance IMO. Still getting near 100% crit wont be unattainable but it will be more of a tradeoff - which it SHOULD be just like it is for ANY other class.
3) Lashing Blade - this combined with stealth crit combined with First Srike AND SoD is just rather silly to me. Basically Lashing Blade USED to have 100% crit in stealth but since they gave that TO stealth they now gave this a 50% severity bonus?! I mean thats a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> Perfect Vorpal! This ability is next to useless in PVE because the long CD and in PVP its too much burst, giving it shorter CD in stealth makes it MORE viable for PVE and still VERY good for PVP. (Imagine if this was like a 10-12 sec CD now... It would STILL be very good just require some tactics to use a second time for the kill)
4) Knife's Edge - this is just stupid it hasnt been fixed (to my knowledge) yet on PTR.
So I think overall you are missing the point, looking at movement speed, the nerf is basically just a module 6 adjustment to prevent them from being STUPID OP. I just want it to be fair TBH, I am not looking to over nerf or over buff anything. We have had plenty of modules with over nerf and over buff and its not fun. Its great for 2 weeks them just boring as heck because noone wants to play.
I think the above changes fix some of the broken mechanics and what I am actually proposing is not much of a nerf in any catagory. Even the run speed nerf, you have feats that EASILY make up for it. Even on the PTR the TR is the tankiest class. Its rather silly.
Notice I never said nerf deflect, nerf severity nerf DR, nerf CC or w.e I am MERELY trying to build a balanced PVP.
Facts are that None of the TOP TRs are even playing Execs are Scoundrels anyways. Most are playing SABO and relying on Shadowy Opportunity to do most of their damage COMBINED with 100% crit COMBINED with Knife's edge to reset CDs making them unkillable.
I dont mind SABOs being perma stealth but should they also be perma stealth AND EASILY outrun every other class? NO.
I also dont mind Execs doing VERY good damage, but should they be able to 1 shot other classes with LB+SoD? I dont think thats fair either.
TR should have multiple build options but right now are the king of everything. They have all the tools to handle nearly any encounter. The Leaderboard stats are just facts. Nothing is materially changing in any way from LIVE to Mod 6 that does not also affect other classes (like Regen), thus I see no REAL improvement for the PVP situation here... Its currently going to be exactly like LIVE just with a new "flavor" since no regen and now we have 3v3s - which I wont even get started at how OP TR will be there TOO.....
This feat is bugged on LIVE as well, Knife's Edge is proccing off ALL hits on Blood Bath literally instantly resetting ALL cooldowns.
This allows TRs to never die using ITC pre-BB then using BB in which we cant target them or deal damage, and then they can ITC after and re-stealth with encounters.
Isnt this supposed to just work on activating the daily? Not on each hit? But its activating on EACH hit of blood bath......