It should be a loop that looks at how many Tenebroughs you have in offensive slotts atm.
Then to avoid them all procing at same time, which according to crush message was the intended change, they do something like -
if x = 1 then proc "set value 10 sec" if x= 5 the proc "set value 5 sec" simplified for non programmers.
That means no matter how many you have they are spread out evenly during a 20 sec period. This was the intended change but cryptic being cryptic they manage to simplify it down to if tena then proc "set value 20 sec" making one or 7 proc at the same rate-- go figure :-).
This actually isn't a nerf to the overall throughput of the Tenebrous. The cooldown and value of any number from one to seven Tenebrous enchantments remains 100% unchanged.
What did change however is their burst potential.
Originally they could all fire simultaneously, providing an incredible burst of damage before going on cooldown. Now multiple tenebrous will fire sequentially while still maintaining their unique cooldowns. This reduces their burst threat while making them a fairly flat DPS boost. This puts them roughly in line with Radiants in *most cases* (read: Tanks will probably still find them to be a better dps boost overall).
you get 1 procc every 20 seconds.
there is no difference having 7 tenebrous or 1 , cause it will be same, do you even test this changes? you always do bad changes.
this is how you can fix this:
you have 7 tenebrous, each tenebrous have its own cooldown of 60 seconds.
so tenebrous1 procc and it goes in cooldown for 60 seconds, the time you wait for the tenebrous2 to procc it should be 8.5 seconds.
because what you want to do is to make all 7 tenebrous procc in 1 min.
60 seconds / 7 tenebrous = 8.5seconds, this will be the gap of seconds between them.
so you have tenebrous1 that proccs and goes in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have another tenebrous2 that will procc and it will go in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have tenebrous3 that proccs and goes in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have tenebrous4, and it goes in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have tenebrous5 , that procc and goes in cooldown, after 8.5s you have tenebrous6 and goes in cooldown, after 8.5 seconds you have tenebrous 7 that procc and goes in cooldown, and it will start from the beginin, so you wont have the BURST that it have, but its far better than what you've done.
As you have done it, there is no reason of having 7 tenebrous, cause only 1 can do the work of all 7.
there is no difference having 7 tenebrous or 1 , cause it will be same, do you even test this changes? you always do bad changes.
this is how you can fix this:
you have 7 tenebrous, each tenebrous have its own cooldown of 60 seconds.
so tenebrous1 procc and it goes in cooldown for 60 seconds, the time you wait for the tenebrous2 to procc it should be 8.5 seconds.
because what you want to do is to make all 7 tenebrous procc in 1 min.
60 seconds / 7 tenebrous = 8.5seconds, this will be the gap of seconds between them.
so you have tenebrous1 that proccs and goes in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have another tenebrous2 that will procc and it will go in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have tenebrous3 that proccs and goes in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have tenebrous4, and it goes in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have tenebrous5 , that procc and goes in cooldown, after 8.5s you have tenebrous6 and goes in cooldown, after 8.5 seconds you have tenebrous 7 that procc and goes in cooldown, and it will start from the beginin, so you wont have the BURST that it have, but its far better than what you've done.
As you have done it, there is no reason of having 7 tenebrous, cause only 1 can do the work of all 7.
As "This actually isn't a nerf to the overall throughput of the Tenebrous. The cooldown and value of any number from one to seven Tenebrous enchantments remains 100% unchanged." was the intended change they all should proc during a 20 sec period.
Your suggestion is a serious nerf by 2/3 of total damage, even though its alot better with once every 8.5 sec then once every 20 sec.
As "This actually isn't a nerf to the overall throughput of the Tenebrous. The cooldown and value of any number from one to seven Tenebrous enchantments remains 100% unchanged." was the intended change they all should proc during a 20 sec period.
Your suggestion is a serious nerf by 2/3 of total damage, even though its alot better with once every 8.5 sec then once every 20 sec.
how is my suggestion a nerf
when i make all 7 tenes procc in 1 min, instead of 1 tenebrous that procc 3 times in 1 min, do you even do math?
i know that you want all the 7 tenebrous procc in 20 seconds, somethling like
20 / 7 with a 2.5seconds cooldown between them, but this is no different of makin them procc at the same time.
so you have 7 tenebrous of 5% = 35% out of max hp deal as damage, so lets say you have 100.000 hp, meaing that 35000 of that is damage and half of it is miticated = 17.5 damage. so in 1 minute you will deal 60000 DAMAGE.
and this is really to much, my suggestion is 17.5 damage/1minute. instead of 60000 damage.
how is my suggestion a nerf
when i make all 7 tenes procc in 1 min, instead of 1 tenebrous that procc 3 times in 1 min, do you even do math?
i know that you want all the 7 tenebrous procc in 20 seconds, somethling like
20 / 7 with a 2.5seconds cooldown between them, but this is no different of makin them procc at the same time.
Its a huge differance if you spread the damage over 20 seconds time from 7 tenes compared to them all fire at same time.
Lets say you do 40k damage as a burst damage or you do 40 k damage over 20 seconds time and add ccs healing life procs etc etc that will happen during a 20 sec period.
Now your suggestion will do the same damage over a 60 second period instead of a 20 sec period hence your suggestion is a nerf by 2/3 of what the messege "This actually isn't a nerf to the overall throughput of the Tenebrous. The cooldown and value of any number from one to seven Tenebrous enchantments remains 100% unchanged." from Crush says.
If all 7 proc every 20 sec and they want to avoid the burst damage by spreading the procs out evenly WITHOUT doing overall less damage its hardly going to be 8.5 sec between the procs, now in my book my maths just fine how is yours ).
Its a huge differance if you spread the damage over 20 seconds time from 7 tenes compared to them all fire at same time.
Lets say you do 40k damage as a burst damage or you do 40 k damage over 20 seconds time and add ccs healing life procs etc etc that will happen during a 20 sec period.
Now your suggestion will do the same damage over a 60 second period instead of a 20 sec period hence your suggestion is a nerf by 2/3 of what the messege "This actually isn't a nerf to the overall throughput of the Tenebrous. The cooldown and value of any number from one to seven Tenebrous enchantments remains 100% unchanged." from Crush says.
If all 7 proc every 20 sec and they want to avoid the burst damage by spreading the procs out evenly WITHOUT doing overall less damage its hardly going to be 8.5 sec between the procs, now in my book my maths just fine how is yours ).
so you have 7 tenebrous of 5% = 35% out of max hp deal as damage, so lets say you have 100.000 hp, meaing that 35000 of that is damage and half of it is miticated = 17.5 damage. so in 1 minute you will deal 60000 DAMAGE.
and this is really to much, my suggestion is 17.5 damage/1minute. instead of 60000 damage.
the difference of makin them all procc like a burst is that it helps you clear a faithfull DC for example, but spreading the damage over time will be a nerf indeed, but that doesn't mean they will be useless. remember that you dont have any regen in combat, think about this how powerfull they are if its 20s/7 with a gap of 2.5 sec between them, for me is no difference than before.
so you have 7 tenebrous of 5% = 35% out of max hp deal as damage, so lets say you have 100.000 hp, meaing that 35000 of that is damage and half of it is miticated = 17.5 damage. so in 1 minute you will deal 60000 DAMAGE.
and this is really to much, my suggestion is 17.5 damage/1minute. instead of 60000 damage.
You might be right on that account but my guess is that if you look at removing crit or power or arpen from offensive slotts using tene enchants will be for those classes that lacks high spike damage.
If you look at the ability to deliver aoe and dott damage that can crit my guess is that azure would do much overall more damage. If you look at spells and dailys that have very high damage like ice knife or dissintergrate (like 60k+ every 5-6 sec) they also will do alot more damage with other enchantments in offensive slotts.
The strongest objection as I see it against tene is that its a passive damage proc ( which in itself is a very bad thing when you spread the procs out during a 20 sec period as its likely you will get attacked from different characters effectivly spreading your damage thin wihout your contol over it), but then again we have glyphs and and array of passive damage floating around atm.
All in all after facing some lvl 70 cws, trs and hrs on preivew I cant say 30-40k damage over 20 seconds of time makes me very worried :-).
You might be right on that account but my guess is that if you look at removing crit or power or arpen from offensive slotts using tene enchants will be for those classes that lacks high spike damage.
If you look at the ability to deliver aoe and dott damage that can crit my guess is that azure would do much overall more damage. If you look at spells and dailys that have very high damage like ice knife or dissintergrate (like 60k+ every 5-6 sec) they also will do alot more damage with other enchantments in offensive slotts.
The strongest objection as I see it against tene is that its a passive damage proc ( which in itself is a very bad thing when you spread the procs out during a 20 sec period as its likely you will get attacked from different characters effectivly spreading your damage thin wihout your contol over it), but then again we have glyphs and and array of passive damage floating around atm.
All in all after facing some lvl 70 cws, trs and hrs on preivew I cant say 60k damage over 20 seconds of time makes me very worried :-).
darks will be great in PVE.
radiants it will give at max 8% dmg bonus.
azure? gwf,cw,tr,hr atleat will handle without that.
but the spike damage you will have from the boons mostly : elven ferocity, avalanche, shadowtouch, feythistle so idk man,
like i said 17.5k damage over 1 min is better than 60k damage over 1 min.
The question I have is. Why the hell put in a enchantment that can be abused in such a way, and yet not make the classes themselves able to do damage?
A blue geared Paladin should not be invincible to a legendary geared rank 9 using scourge Warlock
A Rogue should not be able to do unresistable 25 foot area effect stuns to unlimited combatants every 6 second
A Hunter Ranger should not be able to do unresistanble roots, at will, to anyone they hit.
I honestly dont understand the things I am seeing on the test server. How do you expect your MMO to survive in this market with you making these changes?
like i said 17.5k damage over 1 min is better than 60k damage over 1 min.
No 17.5 k damage over 1 min is alot worse then 60k damage over 1 min :-) JK couldent resist....
7rank 15 radiant is 7x700/400 = 12,25 more damage now take into account that with only dissintergrate you can do over 60kdamage every 5-6 sec that is 600k damage over 1 min and 12.25% x600k = 73.7 k extra damage from one encounter ALONE not counting at wills and other enounters.
So even if dissintergrate does alot less damage then that together with procs from glyphs(do they still benefit from power mmm) at wills and other encounters 17.5 k from tenes is not exactly something game breaking imho.
Am pretty sure increasing your crit chanse by 10% will make ALOT more damage during a 60 sec period of time then 17.5 k from tenebrous as I see it.
But if they dont change tenes from the pittyful state they are in now we newer will find out will we :-).
I think marnival is totally right , tenebrous will not be worth slotting atm
i take them as a class that can´t do lots of cc atm, its passive damage, beeing chain cc´d all time it works, but beeing chain cc´d in mod 6, it won´t help a lot agianst any class in dealing 17,5k damage in 60 seconds, since u will be dead meat in six seconds
even 60k damage in 60 seconds is not much
"so dying in 6 seconds you allways carry 90% of the damage u could have dealt in your dead body" bad deal
there is no difference having 7 tenebrous or 1 , cause it will be same, do you even test this changes? you always do bad changes.
this is how you can fix this:
you have 7 tenebrous, each tenebrous have its own cooldown of 60 seconds.
so tenebrous1 procc and it goes in cooldown for 60 seconds, the time you wait for the tenebrous2 to procc it should be 8.5 seconds.
because what you want to do is to make all 7 tenebrous procc in 1 min.
60 seconds / 7 tenebrous = 8.5seconds, this will be the gap of seconds between them.
so you have tenebrous1 that proccs and goes in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have another tenebrous2 that will procc and it will go in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have tenebrous3 that proccs and goes in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have tenebrous4, and it goes in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have tenebrous5 , that procc and goes in cooldown, after 8.5s you have tenebrous6 and goes in cooldown, after 8.5 seconds you have tenebrous 7 that procc and goes in cooldown, and it will start from the beginin, so you wont have the BURST that it have, but its far better than what you've done.
As you have done it, there is no reason of having 7 tenebrous, cause only 1 can do the work of all 7.
Not sure I like this because it makes it a worthless enchant for PVE.
I agree its not WAI and does need to be fixed. I just think its needs to be treated more like Tranquil but for offensive Purposes.
Tranquil currently is: "When you are struck you have a chance to deal <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage" this scales based on level of enchant.
Tenebrous needs to be EXACTLY the same as Tranquil but for offensive.
"Each time you strike a target you have a chance to deal <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage" this scales also based on level of enchant.
Use the SAME "CD" rules and "Stacking" Rules that apply. Problem solved.
JUST like we have offensive and defensive boons. These would be "offensive/defensive" of the same type of enchant. You can even use the SAME numbers you use for tranquil on each rank as the damage or heal. Problem Solved.
its great as it works like now on ptr we have enough of passive no skill required procs already.
Am sure cc and burst heavy classes agree with you however am not so sure those with low burst and those getting cced more or less constantly agree so much.
The number of things that can contribute to passive damage in this game from glyphs, boons, items is so long that we will probably never see the end of that type of damage.
There are 3 offensive stats arpen, crit and power (lets leave utility out of this) that will increase base damage meaning the higher base damage you have the more the stats enhance that damage.
So if you have very high burst damage crit is a good stat to enhance if you have very high dott damage that can crit a combination between power and crit can be of more use and if you have a steady high base damage arpen or power might be the way to go.
So for tr, cw, sw and some extent hr, dps dc and destro gwf using any of these 3 will result in a much higher damage overall compared to tene even in its old form.
I agree that all fire at the same time with hp being over 110k was not a good thing unless you where a dc or pal but spreading out the damage over 20 sec would only benifit low damage classes like gf pal and sent gwf and I have to say imho all of these need some serious love.
As I see it using crit power *see my example above** would give alot higher total output + the ability to direct that damage where you think it do the most harm.
Tenebroughs would very much be the poor mans (poor being little damage) shoise and would be used for 2 reason 1 being the damage they do is so low that neither crit or power would have a very good effect and 2 being they are easy to cc and spend alot of time being cced.
Conclution:
I agree that passive damage is dulling down the skill factor but as the game is so riddle of it its more a natural part of the system then something that can be abused and therefore using tenebroughs that are inferior overall wont make or break the game at all.
Moreover the only classes that will suffer from tenebroughs current form is imho pal gf and sent gwf that need it the most.
We are talking about bis rank 12 tenebroughs used by bis tanks that can come up with some 40-50 k damage in a 20 sec period of time whish pales compared to what rank 12 crit or power enchants will add in damge when used by hr sw cw tr or destro gwfs.
Comments
So is it balanced as it is now or not according to you mr Ayroux ?
?
If that is taken out of the context its seams likea clear and solid statement to me, or ? (maby am just tired who knows)
Then to avoid them all procing at same time, which according to crush message was the intended change, they do something like -
if x = 1 then proc "set value 10 sec" if x= 5 the proc "set value 5 sec" simplified for non programmers.
That means no matter how many you have they are spread out evenly during a 20 sec period. This was the intended change but cryptic being cryptic they manage to simplify it down to if tena then proc "set value 20 sec" making one or 7 proc at the same rate-- go figure :-).
you get 1 procc every 20 seconds.
there is no difference having 7 tenebrous or 1 , cause it will be same, do you even test this changes? you always do bad changes.
this is how you can fix this:
you have 7 tenebrous, each tenebrous have its own cooldown of 60 seconds.
so tenebrous1 procc and it goes in cooldown for 60 seconds, the time you wait for the tenebrous2 to procc it should be 8.5 seconds.
because what you want to do is to make all 7 tenebrous procc in 1 min.
60 seconds / 7 tenebrous = 8.5seconds, this will be the gap of seconds between them.
so you have tenebrous1 that proccs and goes in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have another tenebrous2 that will procc and it will go in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have tenebrous3 that proccs and goes in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have tenebrous4, and it goes in cooldown, after 8.5seconds you have tenebrous5 , that procc and goes in cooldown, after 8.5s you have tenebrous6 and goes in cooldown, after 8.5 seconds you have tenebrous 7 that procc and goes in cooldown, and it will start from the beginin, so you wont have the BURST that it have, but its far better than what you've done.
As you have done it, there is no reason of having 7 tenebrous, cause only 1 can do the work of all 7.
As "This actually isn't a nerf to the overall throughput of the Tenebrous. The cooldown and value of any number from one to seven Tenebrous enchantments remains 100% unchanged." was the intended change they all should proc during a 20 sec period.
Your suggestion is a serious nerf by 2/3 of total damage, even though its alot better with once every 8.5 sec then once every 20 sec.
how is my suggestion a nerf
when i make all 7 tenes procc in 1 min, instead of 1 tenebrous that procc 3 times in 1 min, do you even do math?
i know that you want all the 7 tenebrous procc in 20 seconds, somethling like
20 / 7 with a 2.5seconds cooldown between them, but this is no different of makin them procc at the same time.
so you have 7 tenebrous of 5% = 35% out of max hp deal as damage, so lets say you have 100.000 hp, meaing that 35000 of that is damage and half of it is miticated = 17.5 damage. so in 1 minute you will deal 60000 DAMAGE.
and this is really to much, my suggestion is 17.5 damage/1minute. instead of 60000 damage.
Its a huge differance if you spread the damage over 20 seconds time from 7 tenes compared to them all fire at same time.
Lets say you do 40k damage as a burst damage or you do 40 k damage over 20 seconds time and add ccs healing life procs etc etc that will happen during a 20 sec period.
Now your suggestion will do the same damage over a 60 second period instead of a 20 sec period hence your suggestion is a nerf by 2/3 of what the messege "This actually isn't a nerf to the overall throughput of the Tenebrous. The cooldown and value of any number from one to seven Tenebrous enchantments remains 100% unchanged." from Crush says.
If all 7 proc every 20 sec and they want to avoid the burst damage by spreading the procs out evenly WITHOUT doing overall less damage its hardly going to be 8.5 sec between the procs, now in my book my maths just fine how is yours ).
so you have 7 tenebrous of 5% = 35% out of max hp deal as damage, so lets say you have 100.000 hp, meaing that 35000 of that is damage and half of it is miticated = 17.5 damage. so in 1 minute you will deal 60000 DAMAGE.
and this is really to much, my suggestion is 17.5 damage/1minute. instead of 60000 damage.
the difference of makin them all procc like a burst is that it helps you clear a faithfull DC for example, but spreading the damage over time will be a nerf indeed, but that doesn't mean they will be useless. remember that you dont have any regen in combat, think about this how powerfull they are if its 20s/7 with a gap of 2.5 sec between them, for me is no difference than before.
You might be right on that account but my guess is that if you look at removing crit or power or arpen from offensive slotts using tene enchants will be for those classes that lacks high spike damage.
If you look at the ability to deliver aoe and dott damage that can crit my guess is that azure would do much overall more damage. If you look at spells and dailys that have very high damage like ice knife or dissintergrate (like 60k+ every 5-6 sec) they also will do alot more damage with other enchantments in offensive slotts.
The strongest objection as I see it against tene is that its a passive damage proc ( which in itself is a very bad thing when you spread the procs out during a 20 sec period as its likely you will get attacked from different characters effectivly spreading your damage thin wihout your contol over it), but then again we have glyphs and and array of passive damage floating around atm.
All in all after facing some lvl 70 cws, trs and hrs on preivew I cant say 30-40k damage over 20 seconds of time makes me very worried :-).
darks will be great in PVE.
radiants it will give at max 8% dmg bonus.
azure? gwf,cw,tr,hr atleat will handle without that.
but the spike damage you will have from the boons mostly : elven ferocity, avalanche, shadowtouch, feythistle so idk man,
like i said 17.5k damage over 1 min is better than 60k damage over 1 min.
A blue geared Paladin should not be invincible to a legendary geared rank 9 using scourge Warlock
A Rogue should not be able to do unresistable 25 foot area effect stuns to unlimited combatants every 6 second
A Hunter Ranger should not be able to do unresistanble roots, at will, to anyone they hit.
I honestly dont understand the things I am seeing on the test server. How do you expect your MMO to survive in this market with you making these changes?
No 17.5 k damage over 1 min is alot worse then 60k damage over 1 min :-) JK couldent resist....
7rank 15 radiant is 7x700/400 = 12,25 more damage now take into account that with only dissintergrate you can do over 60kdamage every 5-6 sec that is 600k damage over 1 min and 12.25% x600k = 73.7 k extra damage from one encounter ALONE not counting at wills and other enounters.
So even if dissintergrate does alot less damage then that together with procs from glyphs(do they still benefit from power mmm) at wills and other encounters 17.5 k from tenes is not exactly something game breaking imho.
Am pretty sure increasing your crit chanse by 10% will make ALOT more damage during a 60 sec period of time then 17.5 k from tenebrous as I see it.
But if they dont change tenes from the pittyful state they are in now we newer will find out will we :-).
Best
i am not familiar with dissintegrate, but it seem to be powerfull.
Best
i take them as a class that can´t do lots of cc atm, its passive damage, beeing chain cc´d all time it works, but beeing chain cc´d in mod 6, it won´t help a lot agianst any class in dealing 17,5k damage in 60 seconds, since u will be dead meat in six seconds
even 60k damage in 60 seconds is not much
"so dying in 6 seconds you allways carry 90% of the damage u could have dealt in your dead body" bad deal
Not sure I like this because it makes it a worthless enchant for PVE.
I agree its not WAI and does need to be fixed. I just think its needs to be treated more like Tranquil but for offensive Purposes.
Tranquil currently is: "When you are struck you have a chance to deal <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage" this scales based on level of enchant.
Tenebrous needs to be EXACTLY the same as Tranquil but for offensive.
"Each time you strike a target you have a chance to deal <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage" this scales also based on level of enchant.
Use the SAME "CD" rules and "Stacking" Rules that apply. Problem solved.
JUST like we have offensive and defensive boons. These would be "offensive/defensive" of the same type of enchant. You can even use the SAME numbers you use for tranquil on each rank as the damage or heal. Problem Solved.
Am sure cc and burst heavy classes agree with you however am not so sure those with low burst and those getting cced more or less constantly agree so much.
The number of things that can contribute to passive damage in this game from glyphs, boons, items is so long that we will probably never see the end of that type of damage.
There are 3 offensive stats arpen, crit and power (lets leave utility out of this) that will increase base damage meaning the higher base damage you have the more the stats enhance that damage.
So if you have very high burst damage crit is a good stat to enhance if you have very high dott damage that can crit a combination between power and crit can be of more use and if you have a steady high base damage arpen or power might be the way to go.
So for tr, cw, sw and some extent hr, dps dc and destro gwf using any of these 3 will result in a much higher damage overall compared to tene even in its old form.
I agree that all fire at the same time with hp being over 110k was not a good thing unless you where a dc or pal but spreading out the damage over 20 sec would only benifit low damage classes like gf pal and sent gwf and I have to say imho all of these need some serious love.
As I see it using crit power *see my example above** would give alot higher total output + the ability to direct that damage where you think it do the most harm.
Tenebroughs would very much be the poor mans (poor being little damage) shoise and would be used for 2 reason 1 being the damage they do is so low that neither crit or power would have a very good effect and 2 being they are easy to cc and spend alot of time being cced.
Conclution:
I agree that passive damage is dulling down the skill factor but as the game is so riddle of it its more a natural part of the system then something that can be abused and therefore using tenebroughs that are inferior overall wont make or break the game at all.
Moreover the only classes that will suffer from tenebroughs current form is imho pal gf and sent gwf that need it the most.
We are talking about bis rank 12 tenebroughs used by bis tanks that can come up with some 40-50 k damage in a 20 sec period of time whish pales compared to what rank 12 crit or power enchants will add in damge when used by hr sw cw tr or destro gwfs.
Best