Bots are also found in PVE. Should we remove all rewards for PVE too?
Of course no, but sadly PVP is heavily infected and in PVE a bot doesn't take away the chest loot from you, where as a bot in PVP being either on your team or on enemy will kinda take it away, you earn no glory, can't advance in quests and if you care your position on the board will be worse too.
Sure best option would be to combat those bots, which isn't done.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Same here, the pve content is poor dnd content at best. Cracks me up to see people going on about how there is no lore to back up the existence of pvp in a dnd game. As if Neverwinter could even in its greatest potential even be in the same multiverse as "good high fantasy", let alone dnd.
This is an action combat game with a flimsy thin dnd label slapped on it. I LOVE tolkein but if someone slapped together some pulpy tripe "tolkein" mmo, I would hardly defend it as a bastion of Tolkein lore and instead (as I do here with the action combat) advocate the actual strengths of the game.
Same here, the pve content is poor dnd content at best. Cracks me up to see people going on about how there is no lore to back up the existence of pvp in a dnd game. As if Neverwinter could even in its greatest potential even be in the same multiverse as "good high fantasy", let alone dnd.
This is an action combat game with a flimsy thin dnd label slapped on it. I LOVE tolkein but if someone slapped together some pulpy tripe "tolkein" mmo, I would hardly defend it as a bastion of Tolkein lore and instead (as I do here with the action combat) advocate the actual strengths of the game.
I started Neverwinter in beta, but never got hooked, I came back in Mod 3 and The PVP is what got me addicted to the game... Without the PVP all I'd have is stale PVE content that I hold left-click through while eating dinner.
Same here, the pve content is poor dnd content at best. Cracks me up to see people going on about how there is no lore to back up the existence of pvp in a dnd game. As if Neverwinter could even in its greatest potential even be in the same multiverse as "good high fantasy", let alone dnd.
This is an action combat game with a flimsy thin dnd label slapped on it. I LOVE tolkein but if someone slapped together some pulpy tripe "tolkein" mmo, I would hardly defend it as a bastion of Tolkein lore and instead (as I do here with the action combat) advocate the actual strengths of the game.
This.
The storyline in NW is very weak. Take the example of the daily in WoD to scout the five herald spots. That should be done only ONCE and never again. Why the hell are we being sent to scout the same spots every few days when we already know where they will appear FFS? Same old dailies over and over and over with no continuing storyline. Most storylines also just seem to fall off a cliff after a Mod ends. The argument that pvp provides no storyline or lore holds no water I'm afraid.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
That's good, because I tend to snub my nose at PvE content too. It's too simplistic, easy, unrewarding and repetitive -- and it's sad that they force you to run so much repetitive PvE content to get the best gear. But I'm happy that PvE players enjoy all the dailies and grindy stuff.
And that is what makes pvp so much more dynamic than pve. The latter is the same BS over and over and over again, fights are the same, tactics are the same whereas the former is different every single time. No 2 pvp matches are ever the same barring the games where quitters give up at the start while the opposing team camps your spawn point until the timer expires. That is why I love pvp because, when conditions are right, it is never boring and repetitive. PvE is just that though.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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imaginaerum1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 378Arc User
The storyline in NW is very weak. Take the example of the daily in WoD to scout the five herald spots. That should be done only ONCE and never again. Why the hell are we being sent to scout the same spots every few days when we already know where they will appear FFS? Same old dailies over and over and over with no continuing storyline. Most storylines also just seem to fall off a cliff after a Mod ends. The argument that pvp provides no storyline or lore holds no water I'm afraid.
I was one who made that argument that pvp provides no storyline to hold my interest. In the very same post I said I dislike grindy dailies for the exact same reason. Why, then, do you use a daily grind as an example of why Neverwinter has bad story? We know the dailies are bad. Most of the story is tucked away in the 1-59 zones that everyone speeds through to get to the 60 grind.
There are some decent stories in the non-end game. The quests tend to be repetitive and unimaginative (the quests in DDO, on the whole, are much better written D&D quests), but the stories aren't bad. They're at least enough to hold my interest, unlike PvP and daily grinds.
There are some amazing stories in Foundry. Good, solid, D&D-lore-heavy stories. That's where the focus should be. Unfortunately, Foundry gets ignored even more than PvP does.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Many will now throw rocks at me, but take all my words as it comes from an avid PVP lover, from one who is here since nearly game's beginning and who has all classes.
I write this in sadness, cause the combat system of the game is one of the best on market and a true and properly managed PVP would rule, but in current state it is scaring off more players, than attracting them and i tell this as a GM.
I think in current state PVP in this game is more of a shame to this game and the genre DnD.
Sadly DEVs show no support for this game type since nearly 2 years, nothing has been done, zero, not to improve, but at least make this an enjoyable part of the game.
Just put your hand to your heart and look in a mirror, do YOU, my fellow decent player do you enjoy this?
I know many types of people are going to read this and everything i say goes out to the legit and decent players, ofc not those, who use PVP in it's utterly broken current state to build a huge ego for themselves or their guilds.
Just a few examples for my opinion:
- exploiters, i could write a longer book, than Tolkien about the exploits i all have heard from fellow PVP players, guildies and on other sites. I have seen so much, recent things today, that my stomach feels sometimes, like in a roller coaster
- AD and Glory farmers, these can be either humans or mostly bots, they give nothing about team play, your fun, ranking, trolling, cheating as long as they get that AD or Glory to AD
- no separated PUG vs Premade queue option
- PUGs mostly in 7-8k or under GS, rest assured changing GS to item lvl won't make a difference, just other name of the child
- too many trolling behavior
Done PVP today in 3 tries, every time i had to jump out and deal with the 30 min cause i felt so sick seeing this HAMSTER over and over. No don't tell me to stop or quit PVP, it should be fixed. I work for one of the world's largest industrial companies and we don't tell the customers from Mercedes Benz not to use their brakes or use their feet like the Flintstones do. Heck if something would be broken in the manufacturing process since 2 years heads would roll.
Example coming up, queued for PVP, "wonderful" matchmaking put me together with a "decent" looking party, ofc 8k wasn't absent lol and all they done was standing at campfire, they didn't even started to try to at least do something. Not that usual HAMSTER, that they capture only base and then go camp fire warming, NO, they didn't even start. I asked them, what the heck is this? I was told Tea party...
Do i need to comment on that, i think no, what is this all about, should this be called a part of a game?
- the population of decent PVP players is so low, that we had to ask more time people in zone to join
- people only come for AD, not for enjoyment of a good fight
- utterly broken and non-existent balance between classes
This alone isn't a huge problem in PVE, but here it is!
- TR phenomenon. No i won't bash now on you TR players, got one too, but hey c'mon first that disgusting perma thing, now nearly permas and 1 shot 10 year old kiddies roaming the battlefield for easy prey, pffff....
But i have to be objective as much as i can, DEVs make a huge mistake from Mod to Mod by favoring only 2 classes and the rest can go and either suffer or the toon can be down graded to AD slave. I know this has marketing issues too, build a new toon and spend on it again. Not very gentleman like, but i could live with it, my least problem, i am an alt maniac.
- no brackets
- no solo leader board
Cool, than throw that HAMSTER and uberly exploited leader board to a huge bin. First dozen pages are based on simple exploits and PUG matches are a disaster, with above mentioned problems. Anyway it doesn't show or represent anything, except a huge ego of those exploiters.
- PVP campaign is not tailored to individual classes
- only two maps and one game mode
No comment here either...
Currently this is on my mind, but if i would think sharp i could come up with more easily.
Since there isn't any hope that Devs will show any real love towards this game type, i think it would be better to hand out that daily 4k-8k or weekly 16k somwhere else in the game and put PVP on stand by until it will get fixed.
Current state of PVP is not worthy of the name Dungeons & Dragons!
Thank you all for your time!
I agree its not funny to enter to Dpvp any more if you are not TR/CW/HR/DC.
I dont want to belive they think this is rigth oneshooting 70k hp GF/50k hp GWF with 1 lashing or shoking .
Each time i enter dpvp or Gpvp i always meet this LB-Shoking-Steath-LB-BB-Steath-LB-shoking etc-etc....
I am mostly dead by the first try cuz i can get 50-60 k LB and the x2 shadow demise deal the rest work .
BY the way i have base 65% dr on my GF and 62% DR on my GWF+ Tena resist.
I was one who made that argument that pvp provides no storyline to hold my interest. In the very same post I said I dislike grindy dailies for the exact same reason. Why, then, do you use a daily grind as an example of why Neverwinter has bad story? We know the dailies are bad. Most of the story is tucked away in the 1-59 zones that everyone speeds through to get to the 60 grind.
There are some decent stories in the non-end game. The quests tend to be repetitive and unimaginative (the quests in DDO, on the whole, are much better written D&D quests), but the stories aren't bad. They're at least enough to hold my interest, unlike PvP and daily grinds.
There are some amazing stories in Foundry. Good, solid, D&D-lore-heavy stories. That's where the focus should be. Unfortunately, Foundry gets ignored even more than PvP does.
In comparison, play swtor from start to finish. Some of the most engrossing storyline you will ever find in an mmo. I wasn't even a SW fan before playing that but after was pretty much a star wars geek. THAT is solid representation of a brand.
Neverwinter is action combat in a dnd setting. The action combat is its strength which is why pvp is so important here. If this was an swtor level of brand representation, I could see throwing the pvp off to the side. But it is not. Its brand representation, its existence as a dnd entity, is weak at best. From the voice acting to the stories. It is to dnd mmo's what the dungeons and dragons movie was to dnd movies. General fail. But what Neverwinter has that the movie lacked is superb action.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
In comparison, play swtor from start to finish. Some of the most engrossing storyline you will ever find in an mmo. I wasn't even a SW fan before playing that but after was pretty much a star wars geek. THAT is solid representation of a brand.
Neverwinter is action combat in a dnd setting. The action combat is its strength which is why pvp is so important here. If this was an swtor level of brand representation, I could see throwing the pvp off to the side. But it is not. Its brand representation, its existence as a dnd entity, is weak at best. From the voice acting to the stories. It is to dnd mmo's what the dungeons and dragons movie was to dnd movies. General fail. But what Neverwinter has that the movie lacked is superb action.
Oh gods I remember paying good money to watch that abortion of a movie at the cinemas. Some of the worst casting and acting I have seen in my entire life. EPIC fail is more accurate.
I can understand why so many people are against pvp in this setting because there is no real reason for the races to be fighting one another like Dwarf vs Dwarf and Moon Elf vs Moon Elf. The only ones that make any sense are the Drow because it's in their nature to constantly backstab and wage war amongst each other. In a game like WoW where you had two clear factions and split races it made total sense that they would be feuding. Here not so much.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
All MMO's are influenced by Dungeons and Dragons. There's no reason to bash pvpers in this game or try to make pvp obsolete because pve'ers don't like it. That happens alot around these forums. Why do PVE'ers always seem to act as though if pvpers get anything new (which we have to actually wait for) that it's detracting from PVE content?
This game has the D&D logo attached but it's also a creative MMO and action packed like someone else mentioned. When running a business model which this is what it is, it's never a good idea to treat the cash cow aspect of the game as though it's not worthy of consideration. The reason why so many pvpers come to this forum is because this aspect of the game has always taken a big backseat to PVE. Ever notice how little pvpers complain that when new content comes out they must also do the PVE stuff to get anywhere? It's set up by design so that PVE'ers don't have to have the best gear to run dungeons but you must have the best to compete in pvp. Can you blame them? It's no different than complaining about loopholes found in dungeons and wanting that to be fixed.
Not all of us pvpers are bad people. It's called going with the flow and creativity. PVP is more of a challenge and having great gear is a must. I feel like sometimes pve'ers are a little selfish in their approach and think this game belongs to just them and what they want. Learn to share.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
edited March 2015
What would go a long way to curing the bad elements in pvp is to somehow disable the ability for opponents to communicate with one another. Have communication via party chat. But trolling, insulting and name calling the opposition is vile and should not be allowed. That is one of my major pet peeves about NW pvp.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
0
imaginaerum1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 378Arc User
...
Ever notice how little pvpers complain that when new content comes out they must also do the PVE stuff to get anywhere?
...
Actually, I complain on a semi-regular basis in the Foundry forums that we have to do the PvE stuff to get anywhere, because I despise boring, repetitive grinds, and that's what their "content" has been for the last few expansions.
Meanwhile, we have a source of endless content, with the potential to enhance both PvE and PvP if they'd code it right, over there in Foundry, and it gets ignored even more than PvP does. And what do we PvE'ers get instead? Another daily go-here-click quest or go-kill-5-X quest or go-run-the-same-boring-instance quest. No real story, just something that you have to do over and over again if you want to get any of the rewards.
Oh gods I remember paying good money to watch that abortion of a movie at the cinemas. Some of the worst casting and acting I have seen in my entire life. EPIC fail is more accurate.
I can understand why so many people are against pvp in this setting because there is no real reason for the races to be fighting one another like Dwarf vs Dwarf and Moon Elf vs Moon Elf. The only ones that make any sense are the Drow because it's in their nature to constantly backstab and wage war amongst each other. In a game like WoW where you had two clear factions and split races it made total sense that they would be feuding. Here not so much.
The main thing that I always have loved about dnd is the fact that a dm or a game dev (or whomever) can use a very broad creative brush without ever disrupting the integrity or internal consistency of the game its self. What turns me off about some dnd products is how strictly people seem to demand the product adhere to some kind of canon. It becomes dogmatic and to me that ruins dnd altogether.
In that light, there is no reason why any class or race would not fight in an arena/pit fight setting. There is some possibly brilliant storytelling. The TR that is in it for lust of gold or blood, the GWF who seeks glory, the paladin who must win x amount of matches to free some slaves....endless possibilities.
PvP and pve should be a happy marriage, can make for ultimate excellent mmo gameplay and storyline, but that creative brilliance has to be there, unhindered by any strict dogmatic adherence to a fairly narrow canon.
Actually, I complain on a semi-regular basis in the Foundry forums that we have to do the PvE stuff to get anywhere, because I despise boring, repetitive grinds, and that's what their "content" has been for the last few expansions.
Meanwhile, we have a source of endless content, with the potential to enhance both PvE and PvP if they'd code it right, over there in Foundry, and it gets ignored even more than PvP does. And what do we PvE'ers get instead? Another daily go-here-click quest or go-kill-5-X quest or go-run-the-same-boring-instance quest. No real story, just something that you have to do over and over again if you want to get any of the rewards.
What originally brought me to neverwinter, along with the possibility of a good dnd mmo, was the foundry. The hope that the foundry would be equal to the Aurora toolset of Neverwinter Nights, from which perhaps the most legendary digital dnd content to date, has been generated. Really I hoped for this to be a really souped up and current version of Neverwinter Nights, with a stronger action combat element. But it is not even close. Not even in the same dimension. I stayed because of the action combat and went to pvp, where the best action is and where the game is strongest.
If the foundry had the power and balls of the aurora toolset, Neverwinter would be about a million times more popular than it is now and would likely rival wow. Imagine user-created persistent worlds limited only by the game engine its self. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Many will now throw rocks at me, but take all my words as it comes from an avid PVP lover, from one who is here since nearly game's beginning and who has all classes.
I write this in sadness, cause the combat system of the game is one of the best on market and a true and properly managed PVP would rule, but in current state it is scaring off more players, than attracting them and i tell this as a GM.
I think in current state PVP in this game is more of a shame to this game and the genre DnD.
Sadly DEVs show no support for this game type since nearly 2 years, nothing has been done, zero, not to improve, but at least make this an enjoyable part of the game.
Just put your hand to your heart and look in a mirror, do YOU, my fellow decent player do you enjoy this?
I know many types of people are going to read this and everything i say goes out to the legit and decent players, ofc not those, who use PVP in it's utterly broken current state to build a huge ego for themselves or their guilds.
Just a few examples for my opinion:
- exploiters, i could write a longer book, than Tolkien about the exploits i all have heard from fellow PVP players, guildies and on other sites. I have seen so much, recent things today, that my stomach feels sometimes, like in a roller coaster
- AD and Glory farmers, these can be either humans or mostly bots, they give nothing about team play, your fun, ranking, trolling, cheating as long as they get that AD or Glory to AD
- no separated PUG vs Premade queue option
- PUGs mostly in 7-8k or under GS, rest assured changing GS to item lvl won't make a difference, just other name of the child
- too many trolling behavior
Done PVP today in 3 tries, every time i had to jump out and deal with the 30 min cause i felt so sick seeing this HAMSTER over and over. No don't tell me to stop or quit PVP, it should be fixed. I work for one of the world's largest industrial companies and we don't tell the customers from Mercedes Benz not to use their brakes or use their feet like the Flintstones do. Heck if something would be broken in the manufacturing process since 2 years heads would roll.
Example coming up, queued for PVP, "wonderful" matchmaking put me together with a "decent" looking party, ofc 8k wasn't absent lol and all they done was standing at campfire, they didn't even started to try to at least do something. Not that usual HAMSTER, that they capture only base and then go camp fire warming, NO, they didn't even start. I asked them, what the heck is this? I was told Tea party...
Do i need to comment on that, i think no, what is this all about, should this be called a part of a game?
- the population of decent PVP players is so low, that we had to ask more time people in zone to join
- people only come for AD, not for enjoyment of a good fight
- utterly broken and non-existent balance between classes
This alone isn't a huge problem in PVE, but here it is!
- TR phenomenon. No i won't bash now on you TR players, got one too, but hey c'mon first that disgusting perma thing, now nearly permas and 1 shot 10 year old kiddies roaming the battlefield for easy prey, pffff....
But i have to be objective as much as i can, DEVs make a huge mistake from Mod to Mod by favoring only 2 classes and the rest can go and either suffer or the toon can be down graded to AD slave. I know this has marketing issues too, build a new toon and spend on it again. Not very gentleman like, but i could live with it, my least problem, i am an alt maniac.
- no brackets
- no solo leader board
Cool, than throw that HAMSTER and uberly exploited leader board to a huge bin. First dozen pages are based on simple exploits and PUG matches are a disaster, with above mentioned problems. Anyway it doesn't show or represent anything, except a huge ego of those exploiters.
- PVP campaign is not tailored to individual classes
- only two maps and one game mode
No comment here either...
Currently this is on my mind, but if i would think sharp i could come up with more easily.
Since there isn't any hope that Devs will show any real love towards this game type, i think it would be better to hand out that daily 4k-8k or weekly 16k somwhere else in the game and put PVP on stand by until it will get fixed.
Current state of PVP is not worthy of the name Dungeons & Dragons!
Thank you all for your time!
I use to try at PvP even moaned and complained at the botters and AFKers, after the developers did what they did with nerfing on classes and buffs on TR (getting spammed dazed), constantly getting hit by Rogues for 42k damage (did I mention I only had 38k as a CW), I AFK along with the rest of non TR players. Suffice to say, I ended up with a full Profound set and less headache by doing this.
I figure, at some point when they figure out how to make PvP enjoyable and squash the obvious bugs/ exploits, we all can enjoy this aspect of the game.
I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.
-Kymos
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
The main thing that I always have loved about dnd is the fact that a dm or a game dev (or whomever) can use a very broad creative brush without ever disrupting the integrity or internal consistency of the game its self. What turns me off about some dnd products is how strictly people seem to demand the product adhere to some kind of canon. It becomes dogmatic and to me that ruins dnd altogether.
In that light, there is no reason why any class or race would not fight in an arena/pit fight setting. There is some possibly brilliant storytelling. The TR that is in it for lust of gold or blood, the GWF who seeks glory, the paladin who must win x amount of matches to free some slaves....endless possibilities.
PvP and pve should be a happy marriage, can make for ultimate excellent mmo gameplay and storyline, but that creative brilliance has to be there, unhindered by any strict dogmatic adherence to a fairly narrow canon.
Too right. I agree with you. I was just commenting on the lore aspect of Forgotten Realms. I have read roughly 50 FR novels so I consider myself well-versed in the lore. I didn't really consider that domination could be seen as pit fights. It very much reminds me of 5v5 arena in WoW. What I liked about the battlegrounds in WoW was that each one had a story behind the zone whereas the two domination maps in NW have no lore whatsoever that I know of.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
b) Never played WoW - subscribtion? Oh no. So I might attach that to the wrong game: Weren't there two gran factions to one of which you'd belong per race? So, if yes, then it's fairly obvious that PvP can easily integrated into the game lore. I must say when this is basically hard-scripted into the game, it's also to some degree easier to maintain the balance between the factions, not like can be seen intermittently in GG, where the PvP-oriented guilds and their chars make the the whole game (bnot only the current match) tilt one way or the other.
Every time i've tried PvP as a CW and more recently as a TR,i got my ....... kicked,and i mean almost every time.I don't know if i suck,the queue/matching system is broken or PvP is unbalanced in general to the point of unplayability,but what i do know is that it's not fun being killed all the time and it's enough to stop many people,myself included, from playing PvP. So i leave PvP to the premades/Elites,while i exclusively PvE . However if casual players,who are the majority i think, avoid PvP for the afore mentioned reasons,then is it any wonder that the PvP population is so low? PvP is not fun for casual players and every game that tried to introduce unlimited open world PvP,ended up empty because noone wants to get constantly killed.
It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
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imaginaerum1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 378Arc User
Fix the queue system... Nothing else is needed, other things could be enjoyable but fixing the queue system is the only thing needed to make pvp playable. It wouldn't be hard just group players to play vs ppl of similar rank on the leaderboard. Something like only group ppl within 10 pages then expand to 20 if no game after half a minute then 30 ect. GS won't matter ppl with higher gs will either meet ppl of same gs or ppl with higher skill to make up for lower gs. = games will be even and fun anyway. If you are grouping just add the pages and divide to get a page. Yes this system is still abusable and not an ideal solution but considering how little support pvp got I think it is a quick and viable one to implement. I am a pvp junkie and I love the pvp of this game but I can't stand the queue system so i am going on forums every few months hoping it will be fixed someday so I can play again )=
Assuming that gear score is gonna be raised to 30k, here is what they need to do, bracket 1 will be for 10k to 14k, bracket 2 15k to 19k, bracket 3 20k to 24k, and bracket 4 26k to 30k. Yes I know people will twink in the lower brackets and this and that and what ever else I mite be overlooking, but that is not hard for everyone to do and I will do it also, (lol). MAKE A MINIMUM GEAR SCORE FOR PVP and that is obvious that it is 10k, this will eliminate the ad campers and others who really don't belong in pvp. The game has more potential, why they cant they see that is baffling. This is not a BASHING Cryptic Post, please respond with any better ideas if anyone has any. The problem is mainly the q system, put better matches together. I will be glad to wait a few extra minutes.
"There are two factions, choose one and fight for it" is not a storyline.
It is not but at least there is some literal story behind each faction and what they are trying to accomplish. Unlike domination which is just a minigame with no story at all.
Assuming that gear score is gonna be raised to 30k, here is what they need to do, bracket 1 will be for 10k to 14k, bracket 2 15k to 19k, bracket 3 20k to 24k, and bracket 4 26k to 30k. Yes I know people will twink in the lower brackets and this and that and what ever else I mite be overlooking, but that is not hard for everyone to do and I will do it also, (lol). MAKE A MINIMUM GEAR SCORE FOR PVP and that is obvious that it is 10k, this will eliminate the ad campers and others who really don't belong in pvp. The game has more potential, why they cant they see that is baffling. This is not a BASHING Cryptic Post, please respond with any better ideas if anyone has any. The problem is mainly the q system, put better matches together. I will be glad to wait a few extra minutes.
Execute, Guild Leader of The Order Of Assassins
There are a few steps that need to be taken to solve the problem. In no particular order:
1. Two ques, one for ranked matches one for unranked. Ranked = serious, Unranked = casual.
2. Brackets within each que. The bracket would use whatever metric the game is using for character power.
3. Leaderboard exploit fixes (yes obviously, but needs said anyways).
4. Ranked que would have a minimum gs requirement.
5. A PVE version of domination that functions also as a tutorial, the opposing team and the friendly team would all be npcs with the single player as the only player. He would have to win three of these matches (proving a basic understanding of pvp of domination) to be allowed to enter ranked domination pvp.
6. Class parity. Not balance. That is a kind of unattainable perfection. Just parity.
7. Team tournaments. This would be for the ultra serious pvp players. With tourneys and ranked ques, there would be so much intense pvp action that a serious pvp player would have no interest in unranked matches wth/against casual players, and casual players would have no interest in getting constantly pwned in serious matches, so the two would never meet.
matchmaking really is a big part of all these problems but...
also player that only come to get the daily done again and again, not having any clue or interest what to do, thinking they don´t have to invest in any gear you can buy for peanuts in AH --> one day farming, there you go purple T1 gear or blue stuff with tons of tenacity and HP if you only want...
I don´t like the matchmaking and i don´t like the fact you can go there in underwear if u like, coming half naked no tenacity, no concept, there are ways to prepare go gauntlegry loot stuff or buy it in the AH
since lots of people post threads about stop whining, or stop playing, or enjoy the game
i do so, I enjoy the game, won´t rage anymore and leave these trash partys every time, consequently for the rest of my time in neverwinter until at least the matchmaking is fixed and the "trashy boys" can pug in the bracket " i don´t care about PVP and i don´t invest a dime, but gimme the AD"
^^^^ see the post I made a few back with the steps. Cures all that. If those steps were taken instead of iwd open pvp, domination pvp would be a win instead of the double dom/iwd pvp fails
EVERYONE makes mistakes, and any reasonable user/customer forgives mistakes or sees past them. What is unforgivable and impossible to reasonably look past is when MISTAKES ARE NOT LEARNED FROM AND INSTEAD REPEATED.
That is what many of us have been seeing for awhile and so we sometimes rage.
no sry i don´t know at all what some dudes are searching in PVP
first time i went there i prepared for it in advance :bought stuff in the AH, spend time in tactics, read about wich encounter to use or not, stats etc., run GG PVE tried to make some points
sure there is not much to learn, but at least you should understand that it is not beneficial to run the stairs up and down all time, avoid the nodes and hide, or stand with 3 mates at node 1 waiting to get blue, instead of helping at node 2 where one sad player faces again and again 3ppl, later on when leaving u get PM´s by ppl who insults you, but you can´t answer and teach them something, cause you are ignored
so this is a vicious circle some mates are captured, never learn, never will understand why ppl run in this or that direction
Comments
Of course no, but sadly PVP is heavily infected and in PVE a bot doesn't take away the chest loot from you, where as a bot in PVP being either on your team or on enemy will kinda take it away, you earn no glory, can't advance in quests and if you care your position on the board will be worse too.
Sure best option would be to combat those bots, which isn't done.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Same here, the pve content is poor dnd content at best. Cracks me up to see people going on about how there is no lore to back up the existence of pvp in a dnd game. As if Neverwinter could even in its greatest potential even be in the same multiverse as "good high fantasy", let alone dnd.
This is an action combat game with a flimsy thin dnd label slapped on it. I LOVE tolkein but if someone slapped together some pulpy tripe "tolkein" mmo, I would hardly defend it as a bastion of Tolkein lore and instead (as I do here with the action combat) advocate the actual strengths of the game.
I started Neverwinter in beta, but never got hooked, I came back in Mod 3 and The PVP is what got me addicted to the game... Without the PVP all I'd have is stale PVE content that I hold left-click through while eating dinner.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
This.
The storyline in NW is very weak. Take the example of the daily in WoD to scout the five herald spots. That should be done only ONCE and never again. Why the hell are we being sent to scout the same spots every few days when we already know where they will appear FFS? Same old dailies over and over and over with no continuing storyline. Most storylines also just seem to fall off a cliff after a Mod ends. The argument that pvp provides no storyline or lore holds no water I'm afraid.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
And that is what makes pvp so much more dynamic than pve. The latter is the same BS over and over and over again, fights are the same, tactics are the same whereas the former is different every single time. No 2 pvp matches are ever the same barring the games where quitters give up at the start while the opposing team camps your spawn point until the timer expires. That is why I love pvp because, when conditions are right, it is never boring and repetitive. PvE is just that though.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I was one who made that argument that pvp provides no storyline to hold my interest. In the very same post I said I dislike grindy dailies for the exact same reason. Why, then, do you use a daily grind as an example of why Neverwinter has bad story? We know the dailies are bad. Most of the story is tucked away in the 1-59 zones that everyone speeds through to get to the 60 grind.
There are some decent stories in the non-end game. The quests tend to be repetitive and unimaginative (the quests in DDO, on the whole, are much better written D&D quests), but the stories aren't bad. They're at least enough to hold my interest, unlike PvP and daily grinds.
There are some amazing stories in Foundry. Good, solid, D&D-lore-heavy stories. That's where the focus should be. Unfortunately, Foundry gets ignored even more than PvP does.
I agree its not funny to enter to Dpvp any more if you are not TR/CW/HR/DC.
I dont want to belive they think this is rigth oneshooting 70k hp GF/50k hp GWF with 1 lashing or shoking .
Each time i enter dpvp or Gpvp i always meet this LB-Shoking-Steath-LB-BB-Steath-LB-shoking etc-etc....
I am mostly dead by the first try cuz i can get 50-60 k LB and the x2 shadow demise deal the rest work .
BY the way i have base 65% dr on my GF and 62% DR on my GWF+ Tena resist.
In comparison, play swtor from start to finish. Some of the most engrossing storyline you will ever find in an mmo. I wasn't even a SW fan before playing that but after was pretty much a star wars geek. THAT is solid representation of a brand.
Neverwinter is action combat in a dnd setting. The action combat is its strength which is why pvp is so important here. If this was an swtor level of brand representation, I could see throwing the pvp off to the side. But it is not. Its brand representation, its existence as a dnd entity, is weak at best. From the voice acting to the stories. It is to dnd mmo's what the dungeons and dragons movie was to dnd movies. General fail. But what Neverwinter has that the movie lacked is superb action.
Oh gods I remember paying good money to watch that abortion of a movie at the cinemas. Some of the worst casting and acting I have seen in my entire life. EPIC fail is more accurate.
I can understand why so many people are against pvp in this setting because there is no real reason for the races to be fighting one another like Dwarf vs Dwarf and Moon Elf vs Moon Elf. The only ones that make any sense are the Drow because it's in their nature to constantly backstab and wage war amongst each other. In a game like WoW where you had two clear factions and split races it made total sense that they would be feuding. Here not so much.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
This game has the D&D logo attached but it's also a creative MMO and action packed like someone else mentioned. When running a business model which this is what it is, it's never a good idea to treat the cash cow aspect of the game as though it's not worthy of consideration. The reason why so many pvpers come to this forum is because this aspect of the game has always taken a big backseat to PVE. Ever notice how little pvpers complain that when new content comes out they must also do the PVE stuff to get anywhere? It's set up by design so that PVE'ers don't have to have the best gear to run dungeons but you must have the best to compete in pvp. Can you blame them? It's no different than complaining about loopholes found in dungeons and wanting that to be fixed.
Not all of us pvpers are bad people. It's called going with the flow and creativity. PVP is more of a challenge and having great gear is a must. I feel like sometimes pve'ers are a little selfish in their approach and think this game belongs to just them and what they want. Learn to share.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Actually, I complain on a semi-regular basis in the Foundry forums that we have to do the PvE stuff to get anywhere, because I despise boring, repetitive grinds, and that's what their "content" has been for the last few expansions.
Meanwhile, we have a source of endless content, with the potential to enhance both PvE and PvP if they'd code it right, over there in Foundry, and it gets ignored even more than PvP does. And what do we PvE'ers get instead? Another daily go-here-click quest or go-kill-5-X quest or go-run-the-same-boring-instance quest. No real story, just something that you have to do over and over again if you want to get any of the rewards.
The main thing that I always have loved about dnd is the fact that a dm or a game dev (or whomever) can use a very broad creative brush without ever disrupting the integrity or internal consistency of the game its self. What turns me off about some dnd products is how strictly people seem to demand the product adhere to some kind of canon. It becomes dogmatic and to me that ruins dnd altogether.
In that light, there is no reason why any class or race would not fight in an arena/pit fight setting. There is some possibly brilliant storytelling. The TR that is in it for lust of gold or blood, the GWF who seeks glory, the paladin who must win x amount of matches to free some slaves....endless possibilities.
PvP and pve should be a happy marriage, can make for ultimate excellent mmo gameplay and storyline, but that creative brilliance has to be there, unhindered by any strict dogmatic adherence to a fairly narrow canon.
What originally brought me to neverwinter, along with the possibility of a good dnd mmo, was the foundry. The hope that the foundry would be equal to the Aurora toolset of Neverwinter Nights, from which perhaps the most legendary digital dnd content to date, has been generated. Really I hoped for this to be a really souped up and current version of Neverwinter Nights, with a stronger action combat element. But it is not even close. Not even in the same dimension. I stayed because of the action combat and went to pvp, where the best action is and where the game is strongest.
If the foundry had the power and balls of the aurora toolset, Neverwinter would be about a million times more popular than it is now and would likely rival wow. Imagine user-created persistent worlds limited only by the game engine its self. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I use to try at PvP even moaned and complained at the botters and AFKers, after the developers did what they did with nerfing on classes and buffs on TR (getting spammed dazed), constantly getting hit by Rogues for 42k damage (did I mention I only had 38k as a CW), I AFK along with the rest of non TR players. Suffice to say, I ended up with a full Profound set and less headache by doing this.
I figure, at some point when they figure out how to make PvP enjoyable and squash the obvious bugs/ exploits, we all can enjoy this aspect of the game.
-Kymos
Too right. I agree with you. I was just commenting on the lore aspect of Forgotten Realms. I have read roughly 50 FR novels so I consider myself well-versed in the lore. I didn't really consider that domination could be seen as pit fights. It very much reminds me of 5v5 arena in WoW. What I liked about the battlegrounds in WoW was that each one had a story behind the zone whereas the two domination maps in NW have no lore whatsoever that I know of.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
b) Never played WoW - subscribtion? Oh no. So I might attach that to the wrong game: Weren't there two gran factions to one of which you'd belong per race? So, if yes, then it's fairly obvious that PvP can easily integrated into the game lore. I must say when this is basically hard-scripted into the game, it's also to some degree easier to maintain the balance between the factions, not like can be seen intermittently in GG, where the PvP-oriented guilds and their chars make the the whole game (bnot only the current match) tilt one way or the other.
"There are two factions, choose one and fight for it" is not a storyline.
Execute, Guild Leader of The Order Of Assassins
It is not but at least there is some literal story behind each faction and what they are trying to accomplish. Unlike domination which is just a minigame with no story at all.
There are a few steps that need to be taken to solve the problem. In no particular order:
1. Two ques, one for ranked matches one for unranked. Ranked = serious, Unranked = casual.
2. Brackets within each que. The bracket would use whatever metric the game is using for character power.
3. Leaderboard exploit fixes (yes obviously, but needs said anyways).
4. Ranked que would have a minimum gs requirement.
5. A PVE version of domination that functions also as a tutorial, the opposing team and the friendly team would all be npcs with the single player as the only player. He would have to win three of these matches (proving a basic understanding of pvp of domination) to be allowed to enter ranked domination pvp.
6. Class parity. Not balance. That is a kind of unattainable perfection. Just parity.
7. Team tournaments. This would be for the ultra serious pvp players. With tourneys and ranked ques, there would be so much intense pvp action that a serious pvp player would have no interest in unranked matches wth/against casual players, and casual players would have no interest in getting constantly pwned in serious matches, so the two would never meet.
Mission accomplished. Do it, Cryptic.
also player that only come to get the daily done again and again, not having any clue or interest what to do, thinking they don´t have to invest in any gear you can buy for peanuts in AH --> one day farming, there you go purple T1 gear or blue stuff with tons of tenacity and HP if you only want...
I don´t like the matchmaking and i don´t like the fact you can go there in underwear if u like, coming half naked no tenacity, no concept, there are ways to prepare go gauntlegry loot stuff or buy it in the AH
since lots of people post threads about stop whining, or stop playing, or enjoy the game
i do so, I enjoy the game, won´t rage anymore and leave these trash partys every time, consequently for the rest of my time in neverwinter until at least the matchmaking is fixed and the "trashy boys" can pug in the bracket " i don´t care about PVP and i don´t invest a dime, but gimme the AD"
EVERYONE makes mistakes, and any reasonable user/customer forgives mistakes or sees past them. What is unforgivable and impossible to reasonably look past is when MISTAKES ARE NOT LEARNED FROM AND INSTEAD REPEATED.
That is what many of us have been seeing for awhile and so we sometimes rage.
first time i went there i prepared for it in advance :bought stuff in the AH, spend time in tactics, read about wich encounter to use or not, stats etc., run GG PVE tried to make some points
sure there is not much to learn, but at least you should understand that it is not beneficial to run the stairs up and down all time, avoid the nodes and hide, or stand with 3 mates at node 1 waiting to get blue, instead of helping at node 2 where one sad player faces again and again 3ppl, later on when leaving u get PM´s by ppl who insults you, but you can´t answer and teach them something, cause you are ignored
so this is a vicious circle some mates are captured, never learn, never will understand why ppl run in this or that direction