Suggestion/Request regarding updated Artifact Equipment

blackyluke · February 2015

Hello everybody,

as you can see on the preview server, there is new updated Artifact Equipment.
The Tyranny of Dragons store offers the complete set of cloaks as "Greater" versions.
Our old cloaks are moved to the first tab and are aviable for other currencies.
Now the greater versions require lvl 70 and logically higher stats.
The set bonus also lists belts that have the "Greater" prefix.
I assume that these are belts that require lvl 70 and reflect a updated version of the
current belts.

Now here is my question:
Current Epic Gear (T1/T2 and others) have been updated and have higher stats on preview.
Artifacts have been updated give stats fitting for lvl 70 and the new curves.
Boons have been updated to fit the new gear curves.
Artifact gear - Nope.
Why there has to be "Greater" Artifact gear. It's practically the old gear just with higher stats
to fit the new curves and the requirements at lvl 70.
The effect of fully upgraded Artifact Gear on lvl 60 and fully upgraded "Greater" Artifact Gear
at lvl 70 should be roughly the same.
Why did the current Artifact Gear not get a stat update just like the gear listed above did?

Suggestion:
Artifact Gear is fairly new and especially the cloaks were just introduced with the recent module 5.
Artifact Gear is by far the best choice for their item slot and they also require the biggest investment
among Gear choices.
When Module 6 arrives our Artifacts/Normal Gear and Boons will magically increase their stats.
Please add Artifact Gear to that list. Please turn our Artifact Gear into "Greater" Artifact Gear.
It is by no means healthy for the game when Greater Artifact Gear renders current Artifact Gear
that inferior.

Yes new modules have to bring in new and better gear, but this change is economically crushing.
Also comparing to Artifacts. Artifacts are something unique its an ancient object that is
empowered by "feeding" with stones and enchantments. One can not have more than one
of these magic objects... However how is Artifact Gear special and unique or even existant when
"Greater" Artifact Gear is introduced?
The new module brings 3 new Artifact/Artifact Belt/Artifact Cloak-Sets. So many players will try to
aquire new artifact gear anyway, but upgrading all Mainhand, Offhand, Belt and Cloak at once is
quite overkill.
Artifact Gear itself has been introduced in 2 steps. First Mainhands and Belts then Offhands and Cloaks.
Now one module after their introduction facing 5 new options is mindboggling.

THIS THREAD IS NOT MEANT FOR FEEDBACK REGARDING THE NEW GEAR. THE DISCUSSION SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON THE SUGGESTION ABOVE AND YOUR PERSONAL OPINION TOWARDS IT. IF YOU SUPPORT THIS REQUEST MAYBE WE CAN MAKE THIS CHANGE HAPPEN AS COMMUNITY. FEEL FREE TO SPREAD AND INFORM OTHERS ABOUT THIS THREAD.

Thanks for reading
Your BlackyLuke

Update 1: Plenty of votes and comments so far. Keep it up guys. Tell your friends, tell your guild. If we want to have an influence we have to get active now!

supraa1 · February 2015

I totally agree with luke's request !

dr132 · February 2015

Agreed 100%

blamecharles · February 2015

As someone that does spend money occasionally(mainly for Enchanted keys) i may pull my financial support over this, it is getting ridiculous, if nothing else make it so that instead of taking RP make our weapons level up from killing enemies, give bonus exp for tough bosses(because there is no reason right now to go to any dungeon). This has been done in many games(Secret of Mana anyone?) and i still love those particular games and those were on SNES.

fecya · February 2015

Well I would clearly spend money into this game when the current Artefact gear stays BiS. Otherwise I will not. If more people would agree on this poll and on spending money on top of it, the Devs and Staff of Cryptic may change their mind. This game had a good concept until the artefact gear come into play. Do not let this choice destroy this beautiful game, it would be a shame.

blackyluke · February 2015

blamecharles wrote: »

As someone that does spend money occasionally(mainly for Enchanted keys) i may pull my financial support over this, it is getting ridiculous, if nothing else make it so that instead of taking RP make our weapons level up from killing enemies, give bonus exp for tough bosses(because there is no reason right now to go to any dungeon). This has been done in many games(Secret of Mana anyone?) and i still love those particular games and those were on SNES.

I appreciat this concept, however its important to keep this thread related on the suggestion I made. If you have improvements I'll gladly add them.
Please keep the posts on topic, I'm sure this will increase sucess.

leondawnbringer · February 2015

blackyluke wrote: »

Hello everybody,

as you can see on the preview server, there is new updated Artifact Equipment.
The Tyranny of Dragons store offers the complete set of cloaks as "Greater" versions.
Our old cloaks are moved to the first tab and are aviable for other currencies.
Now the greater versions require lvl 70 and logically higher stats.
The set bonus also lists belts that have the "Greater" prefix.
I assume that these are belts that require lvl 70 and reflect a updated version of the
current belts.

Now here is my question:
Current Epic Gear (T1/T2 and others) have been updated and have higher stats on preview.
Artifacts have been updated give stats fitting for lvl 70 and the new curves.
Boons have been updated to fit the new gear curves.
Artifact gear - Nope.
Why there has to be "Greater" Artifact gear. It's practically the old gear just with higher stats
to fit the new curves and the requirements at lvl 70.
The effect of fully upgraded Artifact Gear on lvl 60 and fully upgraded "Greater" Artifact Gear
at lvl 70 should be roughly the same.
Why did the current Artifact Gear not get a stat update just like the gear listed above did?

Suggestion:
Artifact Gear is fairly new and especially the cloaks were just introduced with the recent module 5.
Artifact Gear is by far the best choice for their item slot and they also require the biggest investment
among Gear choices.
When Module 7 arrives our Artifacts/Normal Gear and Boons will magically increase their stats.
Please add Artifact Gear to that list. Please turn our Artifact Gear into "Greater" Artifact Gear.
It is by no means healthy for the game when Greater Artifact Gear renders current Artifact Gear
that inferior.

Yes new modules have to bring in new and better gear, but this change is economically crushing.
Also comparing to Artifacts. Artifacts are something unique its an ancient object that is
empowered by "feeding" with stones and enchantments. One can not have more than one
of these magic objects... However how is Artifact Gear special and unique or even existant when
"Greater" Artifact Gear is introduced?
The new module brings 3 new Artifact/Artifact Belt/Artifact Cloak-Sets. So many players will try to
aquire new artifact gear anyway, but upgrading all Mainhand, Offhand, Belt and Cloak at once is
quite overkill.
Artifact Gear itself has been introduced in 2 steps. First Mainhands and Belts then Offhands and Cloaks.
Now one module after their introduction facing 5 new options is mindboggling.

THIS THREAD IS NOT MEANT FOR FEEDBACK REGARDING THE NEW GEAR. THE DISCUSSION SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON THE SUGGESTION ABOVE AND YOUR PERSONAL OPINION TOWARDS IT. IF YOU SUPPORT THIS REQUEST MAYBE WE CAN MAKE THIS CHANGE HAPPEN AS COMMUNITY. FEEL FREE TO SPREAD AND INFORM OTHERS ABOUT THIS THREAD.

Thanks for reading
Your BlackyLuke

I agree, we will be in need of a lot of RP already in terms of upgrading weapon/armor enchantments, and all others to R12, last thing we need is our already maxed out artifact gear to get destroyed -_-

zebular · February 2015

We must keep in mind that the current artifacts are obtainable in the Campaign Vendors for campaign Currency and AD/Black Ice in Module 6. This means refining Greater ones will be easier by buying the ones off the vendors and using them to feed their Greater counterparts once a player has gotten their Greaters, or they''ll just skip the normals all-together. As well for those who already have them, getting the 40% return (80% during 2xRP) on ones that have been ranked up during game-play will make refining Greater versions easier too.

With this in mind, I partially agree with the OP, so I voted "Other."

My opinion is that if they are meant to make one more viable however, then I would just suggest instead to make the original ones become Greater green quality upon refining the originals to Epic quality, and you then refine them back up to Legendary.

rotatorkuf · February 2015

zebular wrote: »

We must keep in mind that the current artifacts are obtainable in the Campaign Vendors for campaign Currency and AD/Black Ice in Module 6, something you left out. This means refining Greater ones will be easier by buying the ones off the vendors and using them to feed their Greater counterparts.

With this in mind, I partially agree with the OP:

If they are meant to make one more viable however, then I would just suggest instead to make the original ones Greater Green upon refining them Epic, and you then refine them back up to Legendary.

i don't completely agree with your "easier" assessment, but yeah, trivially faster probably

as a raw feed, they're worth 3000 rp, something you can easily get by killing mobs, and not wasting campaign currency, or farming campaign currency

max is level 4 feed into a new arti equip

i get what you're trying to do, glass half full

but come on man lol

also, i like that someone actually voted against this lol

loboguild · February 2015

zebular wrote: »

We must keep in mind that the current artifacts are obtainable in the Campaign Vendors for campaign Currency and AD/Black Ice in Module 6. This means refining Greater ones will be easier by buying the ones off the vendors and using them to feed their Greater counterparts.

They give 3k RP. It's not worth it.

blackyluke · February 2015

zebular wrote: »

We must keep in mind that the current artifacts are obtainable in the Campaign Vendors for campaign Currency and AD/Black Ice in Module 6.

I did keep that in mind the problem is that items with the investment caliber like artifact gear, do not seem worth when they are outdated once you level up to 70. Also the timespan of leveling from 60 to 70 is fairly quick.

zebular wrote: »

This means refining Greater ones will be easier by buying the ones off the vendors and using them to feed their Greater counterparts once a player has gotten their Greaters,

The amount of RP feeding one artifact gear equipment into another (even if its the same type) is very low.
Actual numbers can be found here http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Artifact_belt
It has a 2x multiplicator while Artifacts have a 5x multiplicator.

zebular wrote: »

then I would just suggest instead to make the original ones become Greater green quality upon refining the originals to Epic quality, and you then refine them back up to Legendary.

While it's a smart idea that wouldn't really fit the nomenclature. Epics to Uncommons - just underline how obsolete current Artifact Equipment is rendered.

Thanks for reading and posting here, Zebular.

zebular · February 2015

blackyluke wrote: »

zebular wrote: »

We must keep in mind that the current artifacts are obtainable in the Campaign Vendors for campaign Currency and AD/Black Ice in Module 6.

I did keep that in mind the problem is that items with the investment caliber like artifact gear, do not seem worth when they are outdated once you level up to 70. Also the timespan of leveling from 60 to 70 is fairly quick.

zebular wrote: »

This means refining Greater ones will be easier by buying the ones off the vendors and using them to feed their Greater counterparts once a player has gotten their Greaters,

The amount of RP feeding one artifact gear equipment into another (even if its the same type) is very low.
Actual numbers can be found here http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Artifact_belt
It has a 2x multiplicator while Artifacts have a 5x multiplicator.

zebular wrote: »

then I would just suggest instead to make the original ones become Greater green quality upon refining the originals to Epic quality, and you then refine them back up to Legendary.

While it's a smart idea that wouldn't really fit the nomenclature. Epics to Uncommons - just underline how obsolete current Artifact Equipment is rendered.

Thanks for reading and posting here, Zebular.

Yeah, the feeding of the artis into other artis does need to be upped in my opinion, greatly! My point was though not to use that as that sole purpose but to show that not all is lost, as there is still a 40% return on the RP invested in them already when used as a refining item.

So, what I meant was people will be able to get the normals as they progress through the campaigns and then when they get their greaters, they can at least get some of that RP back they put in them to help them out while they were trying to obtain the Greater. To me, it looks like these changes are geared more towards new players who haven't already invested in these artifacts.

So, again on that note, I do feel that the 40% return should be upped to at least 75% return (maxed at 100% during 2xRP, else that'd open the door for exploiting).

rinat114 · February 2015

zebular wrote: »

.As well for those who already have them, getting the 40% return (80% during 2xRP) on ones that have been ranked up during game-play will make refining Greater versions easier too.

Excuse me, just a question here. Feeding my Legendary offhand to a green, new offhand, grants me 960k rp. That's around 22 - 23% investment returned, not 40%. With 2x refinement, it'll barely be 50%. What am I missing here? How is that ok?

iamannoyingdevil · February 2015

rinat114 wrote: »

Excuse me, just a question here. Feeding my Legendary offhand to a green, new offhand, grants me 960k rp. That's around 22 - 23% investment returned, not 40%. With 2x refinement, it'll barely be 50%. What am I missing here? How is that ok?

Feeding a piece of artifact gear into another of the same type ( feeding a offhand into another offhand for example) gives you double RP .

totallynotfrish · February 2015

I disagree because for them to even consider this they should face the consequences.

blackyluke · February 2015

iamannoyingdevil wrote: »

Feeding a piece of artifact gear into another of the same type ( feeding a offhand into another offhand for example) gives you double RP .

http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Artifact_belt
As you can see the RP an artifact is "worth" is about 1/5 of what you put into it. So even when doubled 2/5 or 40% is not much honestly.
To upgrade an artifact equipment piece to legendary you need 4,645,200 RP and using it to refine another in the same slot grants you 1,858,864 RP. However with the current numbers thats at least a lvl 48 Artifact Gear.

I agree with Zeb, when buffing this multiplicator or the return ratio introducing higher level Artifact Gear is not such a huge deal anymore.

ironzerg79 · February 2015

zebular wrote: »

So, again on that note, I do feel that the 40% return should be upped to at least 75% return (maxed at 100% during 2xRP, else that'd open the door for exploiting).[/COLOR]

I believe that if you increased the amount of RP given by Artifact Equipment by 25%, you'd create a situation where on a 2X RP weekend, you'd get a 1:1 return on your Artifact Equipment, which I think is fair.

It would at least give people who invested anything into their Artifact Equipment (whether it's green/blue/purple/orange) an opportunity to "get back to even" on the new gear.

I figure that's a pretty simple change, and a nice middle ground for everyone in this debate.

rotatorkuf · February 2015

what gets me is...

why do we EVEN HAVE TO MAKE THESE SUGGESTIONS!?!?

how is it not common sense for the designers lol

blows my mind (oh wait, capitalism?)

rinat114 · February 2015

ironzerg79 wrote: »

I believe that if you increased the amount of RP given by Artifact Equipment by 25%, you'd create a situation where on a 2X RP weekend, you'd get a 1:1 return on your Artifact Equipment, which I think is fair.

It would at least give people who invested anything into their Artifact Equipment (whether it's green/blue/purple/orange) an opportunity to "get back to even" on the new gear.

I figure that's a pretty simple change, and a nice middle ground for everyone in this debate.

I can only agree with this. 2x RP 2 weeks into Mod 6 with 1:1 ratio on RP return will be fair. I just can't accept the idea of me putting so much time, effort and some money into my BIS artis only to get slapped in the face with new artis and having to start from scratch. And yes, 1/5 return IS scratch with the current economy and RP gaining methods.

denvald · February 2015

zebular wrote: »

So, again on that note, I do feel that the 40% return should be upped to at least 75% return (maxed at 100% during 2xRP, else that'd open the door for exploiting).

Then they should probably change it for normal artifacts too, I get a same type artifact to rank 59 blue then drop it in a new artifact in 2x RP and end up with a higher levelartifact then what I started with (much higher so). And I totally did that yesterday so..

totallynotfrish · February 2015

ironzerg79 wrote: »

I believe that if you increased the amount of RP given by Artifact Equipment by 25%, you'd create a situation where on a 2X RP weekend, you'd get a 1:1 return on your Artifact Equipment, which I think is fair.

It would at least give people who invested anything into their Artifact Equipment (whether it's green/blue/purple/orange) an opportunity to "get back to even" on the new gear.

I figure that's a pretty simple change, and a nice middle ground for everyone in this debate.

If they wanted to do that they wouldn't have separate gear. I seems quite intentional what they're doing...

denvald wrote: »

Then they should probably change it for normal artifacts too, I get a same type artifact to rank 59 blue then drop it in a new artifact in 2x RP and end up with a higher levelartifact then what I started with (much higher so). And I totally did that yesterday so..

Yep, 8x return rate on regular artifacts and some how when it comes to the equipment people argue about it being too much (though not necessarily an 8x return rate...)

cryolysis9 · February 2015

I believe Cryptic should simply raise the level cap of artifact gear just like they did with the artifacts and enchantments. Why do we need new gear to reflect current stats at level 70? This is somewhat absurd as the cost of raising artifact gear to legendary is insane. Instead of creating new gear just raise the level cap. It's a win/win scenario in my opinion.

pashgan · February 2015

For me it will be cheaper to switch to other games rather than spend (again) millions of AD on new artifact equipment for my 4 toons.

So yes, upgrading existing equipment to level 70 is better variant.

edit: I see equipment on test server. "Greater" cloacks and offhands (and apparently belts are somewhere). I'm not happy with idea to re-grind a hundred of Linu's favors - especially considering fact people will be undergeared for weeks and tiamat will fail like 100% of time.

So I'll have to re-purchase level 70 off-hand and then pay ~500k AD to unlock its abilities after I've paid to unlock abilities on my present off-hand? What a good deal!

karakla1 · February 2015

I think it is okay like it will come in module 6.

Gearscore increase or the now called AIL is a normal behaviour of MMORPGs.
Besides that fact we get 1,8 Million RP out of an Legendary Artifact seems not much you can use an double refining weekend to get 3,7 Millionen. The remaining RP are not really much and farm able. I got Dragon Hoard Enchantments myself and only by playing Neverwinter i got around 2 Million without serious farming on a double RP weekend it is 4 million enough for Weapon-Set+Belt+Necklace and i am not a jobless guy sitting in a basement and playing 14 hour per day Neverwinter. I play 1-3 hours per day and a bit more on weekends.

I can understand some players that they hate to wait for an refining weekend. I mean we must wait for the mercy of cryptic/PWE to grant us such an event but it is still a free-to-play game. If you want your new shiny BIS-Gear now you must pay for it and the old stuff from the last module is not really bad, there is only better stuff.

But what bugs me the most is the AD loss of the unlocked bonus of the weapons. Maybe a new system like some kind of soulstone which inherits these kind of bonus could be transplanted to a new weapon for a smaller amount of AD of instead reinvest 500.000K AD to unlock the bonuses randomly.

And i would demant a small push of the stats of the old artifact gear. A bit more damage for the old weapons (the gap is actually 17% and i think it shouldn't bigger than 10%) and a bit more stats for Belt and Neck Artifacts. Currently the greater versions hold 80% more stat-points and i personally think it shouldn't bigger than 50%.

healary · March 2015

This RP system simply does not and will not work because of the AD needed is totally out of reach to a regular player who comes to this game and expects to play it normally.

Delaying the introduction of Greater cloaks and belts will not save the economy. It will only put more burden on the economy later and probably costs it to totally collapse.

So the vote should be Other: no more RP or an balanced RP system achievable by Average Joes but not bots and leadership freaks.

totallynotfrish · March 2015

healary wrote: »

This RP system simply does not and will not work because of the AD needed is totally out of reach to a regular player who comes to this game and expects to play it normally.

Delaying the introduction of Greater cloaks and belts will not save the economy. It will only put more burden on the economy later and probably costs it to totally collapse.

So the vote should be Other: no more RP or an balanced RP system achievable by Average Joes but not bots and leadership freaks.

^True. It is too soon to outclass the equipment but it's the system itself that is the big problem. The fact that each module makes it harder and harder to play catch up has gone to insane lengths.

tuncdragomir · March 2015

Agreed %100 no need for cheap profit moves give us chance to upgrade our current cloaks to greater without refinin them to a whole new cloak

Suggestion/Request regarding updated Artifact Equipment

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