Many had 'complained' that the game is too easy; there's too much power-creep. Now the Devs have found a solution to make the game more challenging; curb the "power-creep". One cannot have their cake and expect to eat it, too. "Be careful what you wish for" comes to mind.
Perhaps it is a different crowd wanting a more challenging game from those who dislike the additional challenge the LS and Stats changes will bring. I don't know. What I do know is that these changes *will* make the game more challenging at end-levels. And I suspect these changes are a precursor to new, more dynamic, more variety of content to come.
I expect you're correct in terms of the two groups being different. It's usually only the people with complaints that you hear from. 'Fixing' one groups problem may create a problem for another group. Interestingly even in single player RPGs there's a disparity between those that want an all powerful character and those that want more equality with enemies.
I only just reached 61 on preview before it went down. I'm looking forward to trying some content with my GF and Acolyte of Kelemvor to see how life steal plays out now. Personally I'm happy LS was changed although not sure on current implementation, I did want to see it decoupled from dps.
Honestly I think a large part of the lifesteal problem was just the massive power creep.
Back pre any module classes couldnt really rely much on lifesteal. Even if they could it was at the loss of something else.
Fast forward 5 modules, with "re-inforcement kits", new rings, artifact equipment, artifacts, players are able to get 1200+ lifesteal without even trying.
Also combined with every other stat increased as well, its not even much of a tradeoff.
NOW we are in a position with the new stat curves where I think the old system of lifesteal will actually work. Based on my lvl 70 character testing (correction, a guild members lvl 70 character on the PTR testing) you will need about 700 lifesteal to just get 1%.
This means even just to get back 10% youll need 7000 lifesteal.
Since they have also removed softcapping, this also FURTHER reduces the need to nerf lifesteal since DPS oriented players will do better in groups to max their DPS without giving up 7000 points for decent lifesteal.
With all these new massive massive changes, I would ALMOST be willing to say we can remove healing depression as well. The only exception would be things like:
Lathandars set bonus which would be too strong
However with the removal of in combat regen, who knows...Maybe it wont be?
So, I was doing Tiamat, when I thought... How am I going to do this in Mod 6 while pugging (no guaranteed Healz/Tank, and even if you get one they probably suck) without lifesteal
So, I was doing Tiamat, when I thought... How am I going to do this in Mod 6 while pugging (no guaranteed Healz/Tank, and even if you get one they probably suck) without lifesteal
And then I realized the answer.... I'm not
Just putting it out there.
Yeah tiamat is going to be an issue, as is some previous content, unless they do a rebalance of mob attacks.
I guess my problem is, a lot of SW healing is based off of life steal. What I life steal is then sent to other players as their healing, or I buff their life steal. A totally random chance means that there is a chance that no matter what I do as a Tempest SW, I'll never get a heal off, if the God of Luck is against me.
So I vote for leaving at is is, but reducing the effectiveness. Right now, random as a Tempest SW is bad... very very bad.
new patch changed stat curves for life steal, more than doubling the chance
i guess they just want to buff CW and leave GWF for dead as always. CW, SW, Pala will get a lot from this moronic idea of the new life steal, while for GWF its close to useless, gj, as if the class wasnt <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up enough already
new patch changed stat curves for life steal, more than doubling the chance
i guess they just want to buff CW and leave GWF for dead as always. CW, SW, Pala will get a lot from this moronic idea of the new life steal, while for GWF its close to useless, gj, as if the class wasnt <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up enough already
Don't forget TR and GF. Well, GF was hosed anyway on LS, but now TR can't sustain themselves at all.
Nothing is as 'Screw this'-feeling as dying to a crab because you couldn't chug potions fast enough. A crab. Chugging potions.
All they needed to do was leave LS alone but not let it proc more than once off the same attack, i.e. you only get one LS proc out of your Oppressive Force, Mr. CW, better stop standing in red.
But no, CW is still fine, but of course TR takes it up the rear. Again.
It's a horrible, short-sighted, foolish change that doesn't at all address the issues.
Largely inactive, playing Skyforge as Nai Calus.
0
aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited February 2015
If CWs stay out of the red, you will have very little control.
All this QQ and they haven't even scaled gear to proper levels yet. Stop whining and jumping the gun. Have patience and see how it evens out when they implement the gear change.
Personally I like the change. Makes healers and tanks far more necessary. I doubt they will change it back so either adapt or GTFO. Seriously. Facerolling content because your are too uber is broken plain and simple. This fixes it and I'm happy no more easy street for every one. Learn how to make a group.
I have suggested that Life Steal should be an hybrid from Mod5 and Mod6 : a fix amount + random part.
With this solution, it give a reliable source of *tiny* heal and a random way to heal back for a *big* amount.
All this QQ and they haven't even scaled gear to proper levels yet. Stop whining and jumping the gun. Have patience and see how it evens out when they implement the gear change.
Personally I like the change. Makes healers and tanks far more necessary. I doubt they will change it back so either adapt or GTFO. Seriously. Facerolling content because your are too uber is broken plain and simple. This fixes it and I'm happy no more easy street for every one. Learn how to make a group.
only gwf and tr will need healers, cw, sw, paladins wont
it wont even out its fail by design, if you cant read the topic before vomiting all over it then you should gtfo
Paladin Master Race
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
All this QQ and they haven't even scaled gear to proper levels yet. Stop whining and jumping the gun. Have patience and see how it evens out when they implement the gear change.
Personally I like the change. Makes healers and tanks far more necessary. I doubt they will change it back so either adapt or GTFO. Seriously. Facerolling content because your are too uber is broken plain and simple. This fixes it and I'm happy no more easy street for every one. Learn how to make a group.
I think you're the one who needs to gtfo. You know how much problems people will have while doing dailies? "Learn how to make a group." You know how much dailies there are? It'd be crazy stupid to make groups for all of them. And you also know how long it takes to make a group aswell? Not everyone always makes groups for dailies, cause not everyone always wants to or replies, and think about how there might not be a DC or OP to heal you in the first place. So your whole point of "Learn how to make a group." Is complete BS.
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
I think you're the one who needs to gtfo. You know how much problems people will have while doing dailies? "Learn how to make a group." You know how much dailies there are? It'd be crazy stupid to make groups for all of them. And you also know how long it takes to make a group aswell? Not everyone always makes groups for dailies, cause not everyone always wants to or replies, and think about how there might not be a DC or OP to heal you in the first place. So your whole point of "Learn how to make a group." Is complete BS.
If you juggle around all the classes doing several dailies like me, you have absolutely no time to put up with this kind of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
The fact is that life steal is indeed somewhat overpowered but that's the point. Many classes who can't heal need it, REALLY need it. Prime examples are Control Wizards and Guardian Fighters. Scourge Warlocks have life steal as their basic stat especially if they are Temptation warlocks. Now you're going to say that's why Devoted Clerics are around, which brings me to my next point.
Come on guys, we all know that this change in life steal and regeneration is because Paladin is introduced as a class. I mean, after all this time having life steal as it is, it's going to change when? By the time Paladins come into the picture? Coincidence? I think not. If everyone can heal themselves AND have clerics as backup, who is going to be healed by paladins? They could only be tanks and not as effective as GFs.
So it all comes down to this. CWs, GFs, SWs (not soulbinders), are all going to be ruined because paladins are coming. Oh, and let's not forget about DCs. Well, DCs will not be affected that much because they ARE the prime healing class but you get the picture. Personally, I didn't want paladin as a class but it was the most popular so what can you do.
I don't need a random life-steal that will give me 90.000 HP at once. This is ridiculous. I just returned from MOD6 content and I've found myself healing 90k at once. But only once.
I need a lot of small healing that will work based on life-steal, not a chance to "steal life". I don't know any other mmo that ever did that. In fact I don't know any RPG that takes Life-Steal as a "chance to proc" kind of a thing. Who asked for this? Who benefits from this? Mobs already insta-kill most of players.
I'm a CW so I can handle, but I dare not to think what will happen to the melee characters. And with the way renegeration works now fawn of shaila is useless
This also means that I can't influence which particular strike would I use to heal myself as I got used to in previous modules. Since it's a random proc, it's pretty much useless to do it with particular intention and will in fact prolong the already long daily routine.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
I think you're the one who needs to gtfo. You know how much problems people will have while doing dailies? "Learn how to make a group." You know how much dailies there are? It'd be crazy stupid to make groups for all of them. And you also know how long it takes to make a group aswell? Not everyone always makes groups for dailies, cause not everyone always wants to or replies, and think about how there might not be a DC or OP to heal you in the first place. So your whole point of "Learn how to make a group." Is complete BS.
You're being too kind.
NO ONE groups for dailes.
NO ONE...unless they absolutely HAVE to.
Do we all remember the endless pleas in /zone chat by DC's requesting help for Gnarlroot Caves, Witch Fen, or Celadaine's Tower before the Righteous build and overall DC rework? Now picture that x10 where we ALL have to sit around gathering a group together.
Now imagine this...you'll need a group for EVERY SINGLE DAILY in IWD and in WoD, because you're at a three level disadvantage AND will be outnumbered (just imagine dealing with a green, white, and three black dragonwings who are all level 73). It will be an infuriatingly frustrating chore. It will be the opposite of fun in every sense of the word.
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My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Forced grouping to kill all content is just ludicrous.
For example, with the small player base in IWD nowadays, it is sometimes impossible to fight epic heroic encounters due to a lack of people. I could see this happening in other areas of the world in the Mod 6 era. In its worst case scenario, it will drive players away from the game, meaning fewer people to group up with, leading to a cycle of a dwindling player base. Not a smart move IMO.
Lifesteal is way to OP right now as it stands unless I get CC'd or one shotted I am basically immortal as long as I am swinging my sword I can solo things that shoudnt be solo-able from what I played on test before I got borked on the black hole armor bug Lifesteal was fine kinda like a random big heal every so often and seemed to proc ok not all the time but still pretty regular
as for the temptation warlocks their lifesteal woks different than other classes due to the capstone so thats not really an issue
I leveled to 70 without a healer on a GWF yea I died from time to time but it was by no means too difficult I just had to be a tad more strategic instead of going raaaaaaahhhhh and throwing myself headlong at 20 mobs so yea mod 6 lifesteal is fine. I think that it will help with CW's being DPS beasts since they will actually have to move around and not rely on "oh if I cast this I can get all my health back" and move more toward "hey I need to get away for a sec so i can pot when it comes off cooldown"
when you have reliable lifesteal then you start to rely on it too much. LS shoud be a supplemental stat not one of the best defensive stats in the game I should not outheal cleric in a dungeon just from my lifesteal
as for the temptation warlocks their lifesteal woks different than other classes due to the capstone so thats not really an issue
Yeah, no, they changed the capstone's mechanics to something that is also ******ed - basically deriving it from the toon's damage rather than yours, so CWs and the like get healed the most and tanks get a piddly amount.
Overall, this change is just terrible for SWs, because we rely on replenishing HP as our main survival method. And you know, while SB are a bit better off, it still hoses them even more for PvP because, good luck getting enough sparks when they dissipate after three seconds or so out of combat.
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited March 2015
I left feedback before, it seems a little too harsh of a chance to proc.
Yeah, no, they changed the capstone's mechanics to something that is also ******ed - basically deriving it from the toon's damage rather than yours, so CWs and the like get healed the most and tanks get a piddly amount.
Overall, this change is just terrible for SWs, because we rely on replenishing HP as our main survival method. And you know, while SB are a bit better off, it still hoses them even more for PvP because, good luck getting enough sparks when they dissipate after three seconds or so out of combat.
like i said if you rely on lifesteal as your main survival method then you are doing it wrong liifesteal is a supplemental stat not a main def stat
I just took what other SW told me on the capstone thing I dont play a SW so I was hasty on the non issue comment and I apologize
but still like i said if you rely on LS for you def then you need more def and deflect and stay out of the red at all cost
like i said if you rely on lifesteal as your main survival method then you are doing it wrong liifesteal is a supplemental stat not a main def stat
I just took what other SW told me on the capstone thing I dont play a SW so I was hasty on the non issue comment and I apologize
but still like i said if you rely on LS for you def then you need more def and deflect and stay out of the red at all cost
as for the SW capstone I dont really know
you just need to shut up and enjoy the no healer alive situation. SW got no defense. SW got no defense. SW got no defense. SW got loads of HP that will evaporate in an instant despite any number of deflection SW can toss out of the rear end.
I get that lifesteal earlier was OP.
But still why should nerf it to such an extent? At least decrease the amount of points required for a % of lifesteal. I suggest 300:1% instead of 400:1%
(my main is a SW lvl60, lifesteal was awesome but if the change was to rely less of it, please reduce by 100 points to make it a not so harsh nerf) (this account is the only 1 i have access to the forums)
Comments
I expect you're correct in terms of the two groups being different. It's usually only the people with complaints that you hear from. 'Fixing' one groups problem may create a problem for another group. Interestingly even in single player RPGs there's a disparity between those that want an all powerful character and those that want more equality with enemies.
I only just reached 61 on preview before it went down. I'm looking forward to trying some content with my GF and Acolyte of Kelemvor to see how life steal plays out now. Personally I'm happy LS was changed although not sure on current implementation, I did want to see it decoupled from dps.
Back pre any module classes couldnt really rely much on lifesteal. Even if they could it was at the loss of something else.
Fast forward 5 modules, with "re-inforcement kits", new rings, artifact equipment, artifacts, players are able to get 1200+ lifesteal without even trying.
Also combined with every other stat increased as well, its not even much of a tradeoff.
NOW we are in a position with the new stat curves where I think the old system of lifesteal will actually work. Based on my lvl 70 character testing (correction, a guild members lvl 70 character on the PTR testing) you will need about 700 lifesteal to just get 1%.
This means even just to get back 10% youll need 7000 lifesteal.
Since they have also removed softcapping, this also FURTHER reduces the need to nerf lifesteal since DPS oriented players will do better in groups to max their DPS without giving up 7000 points for decent lifesteal.
With all these new massive massive changes, I would ALMOST be willing to say we can remove healing depression as well. The only exception would be things like:
Lathandars set bonus which would be too strong
However with the removal of in combat regen, who knows...Maybe it wont be?
And then I realized the answer.... I'm not
Just putting it out there.
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Yeah tiamat is going to be an issue, as is some previous content, unless they do a rebalance of mob attacks.
level 70 - 1939 LS = 2%
Yeah, no way in this world Tiamat is happening.
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That's probably why the content is blocked.
So I vote for leaving at is is, but reducing the effectiveness. Right now, random as a Tempest SW is bad... very very bad.
i guess they just want to buff CW and leave GWF for dead as always. CW, SW, Pala will get a lot from this moronic idea of the new life steal, while for GWF its close to useless, gj, as if the class wasnt <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up enough already
Don't forget TR and GF. Well, GF was hosed anyway on LS, but now TR can't sustain themselves at all.
Nothing is as 'Screw this'-feeling as dying to a crab because you couldn't chug potions fast enough. A crab. Chugging potions.
All they needed to do was leave LS alone but not let it proc more than once off the same attack, i.e. you only get one LS proc out of your Oppressive Force, Mr. CW, better stop standing in red.
But no, CW is still fine, but of course TR takes it up the rear. Again.
It's a horrible, short-sighted, foolish change that doesn't at all address the issues.
Personally I like the change. Makes healers and tanks far more necessary. I doubt they will change it back so either adapt or GTFO. Seriously. Facerolling content because your are too uber is broken plain and simple. This fixes it and I'm happy no more easy street for every one. Learn how to make a group.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
With this solution, it give a reliable source of *tiny* heal and a random way to heal back for a *big* amount.
only gwf and tr will need healers, cw, sw, paladins wont
it wont even out its fail by design, if you cant read the topic before vomiting all over it then you should gtfo
Forgot about GFs. Going to be forced to only use fighters recovery and abandon the other dallies.
I better start getting all my linus now then...
I think you're the one who needs to gtfo. You know how much problems people will have while doing dailies? "Learn how to make a group." You know how much dailies there are? It'd be crazy stupid to make groups for all of them. And you also know how long it takes to make a group aswell? Not everyone always makes groups for dailies, cause not everyone always wants to or replies, and think about how there might not be a DC or OP to heal you in the first place. So your whole point of "Learn how to make a group." Is complete BS.
If you juggle around all the classes doing several dailies like me, you have absolutely no time to put up with this kind of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Come on guys, we all know that this change in life steal and regeneration is because Paladin is introduced as a class. I mean, after all this time having life steal as it is, it's going to change when? By the time Paladins come into the picture? Coincidence? I think not. If everyone can heal themselves AND have clerics as backup, who is going to be healed by paladins? They could only be tanks and not as effective as GFs.
So it all comes down to this. CWs, GFs, SWs (not soulbinders), are all going to be ruined because paladins are coming. Oh, and let's not forget about DCs. Well, DCs will not be affected that much because they ARE the prime healing class but you get the picture. Personally, I didn't want paladin as a class but it was the most popular so what can you do.
I need a lot of small healing that will work based on life-steal, not a chance to "steal life". I don't know any other mmo that ever did that. In fact I don't know any RPG that takes Life-Steal as a "chance to proc" kind of a thing. Who asked for this? Who benefits from this? Mobs already insta-kill most of players.
I'm a CW so I can handle, but I dare not to think what will happen to the melee characters. And with the way renegeration works now fawn of shaila is useless
This also means that I can't influence which particular strike would I use to heal myself as I got used to in previous modules. Since it's a random proc, it's pretty much useless to do it with particular intention and will in fact prolong the already long daily routine.
You're being too kind.
NO ONE groups for dailes.
NO ONE...unless they absolutely HAVE to.
Do we all remember the endless pleas in /zone chat by DC's requesting help for Gnarlroot Caves, Witch Fen, or Celadaine's Tower before the Righteous build and overall DC rework? Now picture that x10 where we ALL have to sit around gathering a group together.
Now imagine this...you'll need a group for EVERY SINGLE DAILY in IWD and in WoD, because you're at a three level disadvantage AND will be outnumbered (just imagine dealing with a green, white, and three black dragonwings who are all level 73). It will be an infuriatingly frustrating chore. It will be the opposite of fun in every sense of the word.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
For example, with the small player base in IWD nowadays, it is sometimes impossible to fight epic heroic encounters due to a lack of people. I could see this happening in other areas of the world in the Mod 6 era. In its worst case scenario, it will drive players away from the game, meaning fewer people to group up with, leading to a cycle of a dwindling player base. Not a smart move IMO.
as for the temptation warlocks their lifesteal woks different than other classes due to the capstone so thats not really an issue
I leveled to 70 without a healer on a GWF yea I died from time to time but it was by no means too difficult I just had to be a tad more strategic instead of going raaaaaaahhhhh and throwing myself headlong at 20 mobs so yea mod 6 lifesteal is fine. I think that it will help with CW's being DPS beasts since they will actually have to move around and not rely on "oh if I cast this I can get all my health back" and move more toward "hey I need to get away for a sec so i can pot when it comes off cooldown"
when you have reliable lifesteal then you start to rely on it too much. LS shoud be a supplemental stat not one of the best defensive stats in the game I should not outheal cleric in a dungeon just from my lifesteal
Yeah, no, they changed the capstone's mechanics to something that is also ******ed - basically deriving it from the toon's damage rather than yours, so CWs and the like get healed the most and tanks get a piddly amount.
Overall, this change is just terrible for SWs, because we rely on replenishing HP as our main survival method. And you know, while SB are a bit better off, it still hoses them even more for PvP because, good luck getting enough sparks when they dissipate after three seconds or so out of combat.
They need to adjust slightly .
like i said if you rely on lifesteal as your main survival method then you are doing it wrong liifesteal is a supplemental stat not a main def stat
I just took what other SW told me on the capstone thing I dont play a SW so I was hasty on the non issue comment and I apologize
but still like i said if you rely on LS for you def then you need more def and deflect and stay out of the red at all cost
as for the SW capstone I dont really know
you just need to shut up and enjoy the no healer alive situation. SW got no defense. SW got no defense. SW got no defense. SW got loads of HP that will evaporate in an instant despite any number of deflection SW can toss out of the rear end.
But still why should nerf it to such an extent? At least decrease the amount of points required for a % of lifesteal. I suggest 300:1% instead of 400:1%
(my main is a SW lvl60, lifesteal was awesome but if the change was to rely less of it, please reduce by 100 points to make it a not so harsh nerf) (this account is the only 1 i have access to the forums)