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Impact of Gearscore removal (vs Average Item Level)
nekromaniak666
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 94
What is Gearscore (GS)? It is sum of character stats, not including bonus stats from your augment. That´s fine. It is also a gate for entering certain zones if your GS is high enough. In this way it is one of the most inaccurate indicator in whole NWO. Epic Lair of Lostmauth has min 13000 GS. What will happen if every member of the party will be close to 13k GS? This dungeon will take them a lot of time to finish IF they will be even capable of finishing it. Same goes for T1/2 dungeons and not even talking about 10k GS requirement for entering Tiamat. 25x 10k GS = Win? Keep dreaming. Well in most situations there is/are double GS requirement players, but then is any GS requirement pointless. If the new Average Item Level (AIL) will be more accurate, i am for it. BUT..User Interface
- Average Item Level displayed on your character sheet in place of Gearscore will be used to gate character’s from entering some Dungeons and Zones in the same way that Gearscore did. We are still in the process of finalizing exactly what will go into this number and it will be a sum of the item levels of your equipment, enchantments and artifacts.
- Gearscore has been replaced with "Average Item Level".
Personaly for me is GS very important for making quick decisions. Mostly when playing with randoms. By taking a quick look at my team GS, i can know if the party will be successful - imba party or just fine - or if it will be fail. For PvP or PvE, it doesnt matter, but that time for inspection is limited and i cant check every stat or piece of gear. So a quick look at party players GS can help me decide if i will stay and continue or if the party need advices or if i should rather quit. In this way is GS one of the most important indicator. And i have doubts if AIL will do the same job.
Also by inspecting another same class player and checking his GS, i can decide if his char has interesting numbers and will be worth for me to inspect him more deeply also talk to him and exchange same knowledge or just let him pass.
Will AIL do the same job?
There are many complaining topics about how unbalanced are forced random groups. In PvP if you queue - and doesnt matter if solo or premade from 2 to 5 players - you are getting low GS player in your team or playing against low team. I wont go deeply in this PvP problem, everyone know about it. Same goes for PvE, every low GS player in Tiamat fight is lowering your chances for victory. So one can think that existence of GS and their difference between players (and the gap is bigger and bigger) can cause making of these topics, bad mood between players, hate, etc...
What i want to say is that GS is good indicator showing where the problem is and then you (Cryptic) can work on any fix. And connecting 12k GS player with or VS 23k GS player is really big problem and changing GS for AIL can cover this problematic a bit, but it wont fix it for sure. It doesnt matter if we have GS or AIL, there will be still huge gap between players and with all respect your step of GS removal smells a bit with shady move how to cover, silence or just lower all these anti low GS mood instead of real fix.
For sure we need more info about AIL, but is it really big problem to keep both GS and AIL?
[SIGPIC]Hellsing[/SIGPIC]
Post edited by nekromaniak666 on
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not that gear is going to help in mod 6.
i can already see people with rank 1 performing as people with rank 12 given the new curves.
It doesn't for me at least since that's what I've been looking at all along when I get paired with complete strangers and wanted a quick (and relatively reliable) assessment of what's in store.
Well in PvE you can take your time to inspect whole team. During your deep inspection rest of the party will move forward and you can be kicked for being afk or not performing well because you are inspecting. Not fiction but reality.
In PvP you have only few seconds to check your team and enemy team.
It will change the dynamic much if AIL wont be same informative as GS is now.
Although I'm in the group that prefers GS rather than nothing, I think that AIL has a chance to do better. GS was very unfair to some classes and to some items/builds, maybe that can improve.
I think the big range of values of GS was not a good thing, it's better if a 0 or two is cut.
This exactly!
As long as I meet the requirements to enter the content, the rest of it should be none of your dang business
your seeing eye dog told u so ?
ppl dont even try to understand new curves but talk big
then i would just run dungeons with enough ppl i know so i can boot the t___h. gear score req is useless(outside of keeping some Donalds out of the content). the ppl who make the party decide what gear they need, not the one who joins, i dont mind taking low geared ppl through dungeons but only if i know that the other ppl can pull him through
some way to see other ppl gear level without having to examine each part is needed.
So true!
#stupid10charrequirement
I wish this forum had an agree button....because I'd be mashing the HAMSTER out of it.
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For a content doable easily at 12k.
That is why GS needs to go.
Elitism in pve is simply too high if someone attempts to pug.
So the new will just be nlol 90+ ilvl only
(making up the new ilvl)
So you say get rid of being able to see others ilvl.
I've seen games do that. When that happened, pugs disappeared from about 50 or so, to 5 at any one time looking for people. Going down to that few people willing to pug, is not something that we should want to see happen.
.....what? lol I think that would be the most unreasonable thing in general. Think about it this way your queing up with people you don't know. The closest information you can get from them is a gs or this new stuff if it works correctly. Granted neither reflects a persons skill. However being honest most people don't care how skilled you are if your not putting out the damage/heals. People would still vote kick before a boss if a persons damage or heals were low just as they always have.
Basically to sum it up. It save the people who are like that time. 1. from a person leaving a party or getting kicked from a party after players have invested time into it. 2. a good generalization of a persons ability. (again gs does not mean a person is god). At the end of the day as one person stated. Just like gs was abused so will ilvl be. People will never stop looking for a way to separate themselves from others.
Last but not least if you think que sucks now waiting.....LOL Let them go with your idea and see how many would que for a dungeon randomly. And trust me I played a game like that..... next to no one would que for harder dungeons because of randoms that they would get. The only way its no ones business about your gear is if your solo. Then i would have to agree. However if its a team run then you should be of use to that team. I have never had a problem doing runs with lower geared people. That's because I have a choice some days i feel like the extra work and helping out and sometimes not. If they ever were to put in a system such as that I would totally just form parties and que that way. I hate choices being taken away.
Oh it is way WAY more broken than that.
Not only does it NOT include stats from your augment pet (which arguably ought to be regarded as gear), but it also:
- Does not include armor/weapon enchants, so the player with a Perfect Vorpal and the player with a Perfect Bronzewood are, all else equal, regarded as equivalent.
- Does include SOME stat-boosting boons (not all!), which, last I checked, are not related to gear.
- Does not include the effect of a 4pc set bonus, which for most every class, is way more important than the gear stats themselves (i.e., High Vizier, High Prophet)
- Does not even include ALL of your stats, for example, control bonus or combat advantage bonus.
But here's the big reason why GS is stupid:
Because people use GS prejudicially and make decisions that affect the success or failure of the entire team. Are you telling me you are going to, say, pick a 20k CW wearing Purified BI, or Draconic Templar (a truly awful set for a CW), or worse, a 2/2 Set split, with a bunch of stat-boosting companions, over a 16k CW that is wearing a 4pc High Vizier set with companions that give non-GS-boosting bonuses such as control bonus or critical severity increase? If you do then you are a fool. But your prejudicial attitude towards GS - which is far from unique in this game - drives players to do stupid GS-boosting HAMSTER just so they will be accepted in to parties like your own, and therefore neglect the very important bonuses and benefits that you get from gear that are not counted in GS.
My hope is that Average Item Level will not be based on stats but will be based on the quality of the gear itself. So people will not be driven to artificially boost their AIL by just padding their gear with useless stats since even if they do, the overall quality of the gear doesn't change and so AIL won't change either. But that is just my hope. We shall see how it turns out. I am cautiously optimistic.
right and then the game would be just like Tera with its ilvl system. No one geared would que for the harder stuff lol. Or runes of magic where there is no que or gs system so people just inspect you and say ummm ...NO. People have not seen elitism until the though of "you should not know what im wearing because this game let me in the dungeon" We know that gs totally is accurate for dungeon entry in this game.....sarcasm 10k tiamat..... yea, 13k elol ....yea. That said inspecting people kinda is a good thing. Not just for the "oh that person gear is not so good" But for "hey I'm probably going to have to look to control more vs. kill so that way I can help keep these people alive. Everything is a double edge sword, and not all people take gs as a way to increase their epen....
But for every time you see one of those cases, I at least have seen 10 more where low geared people couldn't meet dps checks or were one shot by room wide unavoidable aoes (obviously talking about total mmo experience here not just one game). So yeah gs isn't everything, it however is not nothing either. Like everything moderation.
Then our lovely gear inquisitors will just say "give permission to be inspected or be kicked". Taking us back to square one but with more annoyance since we will have to give permission every time.
Imho it should be hidden entirely with no way to inspect. Not even with permission. If a friend wants to know he can always ask. And if you meet an inquisitor just lie.
Not really. I saw in PvP some talented people with 11-16K Gearscore trying to hurt me. I had over 21K GS and didn't get serious hurt. A few times if my team managed to decide the game in an early stage i got on Desktop for one minute. Another TR tried to kill me and i was like 50% Hitpoints.
I hit him with the strongest attack i had and he died in an instant. He was an 14K GS TR. So at some point you can say GS is important to meassure the characters level after level 60.
If you have room for one more player in your party and you get to choose between two strangers you haven't played with before: one with 11k and one with 21k (same class), who do you pick, seriously? I would pick the 21k guy in a heartbeat.
You realize the stats and curves are not working correctly currently in preview server right?
Problem is that in ten years of mmo's I've yet to see entry reqs that everyone thought were correct.
Pros:
The word gearscore isn't there.
???
Cons:
Other players can still see it, meaning that it is still effectively the same as GS.
iLvl tells even less then gs and is an even less accurate judge then GS, as it doesn't count player enchantments and a player can effortlessly inflate their iLvl while wearing utter trash gear. For example, in general, a CW using the blue, "piercing ring of smiting,"x2 is a new level 60 CW who knows exactly what he is doing and is building his char properly, in contrast, a char wearing hrimnir rings is likely just inflating his iLvl/gs.
Enchantments don't count towards iLvl, only gear does. This is a huge negative as it forces players out of old, good sets, for new , trash sets simply so they can get in. With gearscore, you could force your way in by getting that gs from somewhere else like enchants, the same is not true for iLvl. For example, say iLvl was implemented into the game as is and say t1 sets were iLvl 70. that means t2 sets would be iLvl 80 and t3 sets would be iLvl 90. The current best set for a dc is the high prophet set, which is a t1. With GS, a dc can merely bulk up on enchants and then force their way in, as their stats across their entire char are good enough, but with iLvl, a cleric would not be able to get into say elol with the high prophet set, because iLvl does not account for things like enchants. Furthermore, as iLvl is an average of what is essentially, the devs, "recommended" rating, you will always be forced to compromise your gear somewhere, unless your class is lucky enough to have its best gear be its newest gear. Consider this, the CW HV set has an iLvl of say 70, the DT set has an iLvl of say 90, however no self respecting CW would wear the DT set. iLvl is just the way the method the devs came up with to finally do away with the problem of having old sets of gear stick on players.
At the end of the day, iLvl is not the solution to gs we were hoping for, rather it is the devs method of veiling their attempt to forcibly out mode older and better gear.
PVP: The party you get is the party you get. Knowing their gear will help how?