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Tiamat + DC abllites
arcanaxe
Member Posts: 192 Arc User
This is just a quick cap as to what not to use in the Tiamat Raid.
With a lot of runs done from lots of different channels, the following at will and daily is causing mayor lag problems within tiamat
The at-will : Astral Seal
The daily : Hollowed ground
Now these power may not cause lag for you, but in most cases these powers cause mayor lag within the Raid for other people.
If you know of any other power that is causing lag from a DC perspective, please add to the list. If we can have the dev's read this maybe they can assist in a way to sort this out.
With a lot of runs done from lots of different channels, the following at will and daily is causing mayor lag problems within tiamat
The at-will : Astral Seal
The daily : Hollowed ground
Now these power may not cause lag for you, but in most cases these powers cause mayor lag within the Raid for other people.
If you know of any other power that is causing lag from a DC perspective, please add to the list. If we can have the dev's read this maybe they can assist in a way to sort this out.
Post edited by arcanaxe on
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If you are going to accuse clerics for causing all your problems, then proper proof is required, and by proper I mean you run 20 Tiamats with the same players doing roughly the same thing, then do it again but substituting some with some DCs.
Ive now done 60 runs on my DC, 30 on my CW and 28 on my GWF.. I have both used and seen HG dropped at least 50% of these runs and I HAVE never experienced any LAG, once with that ability.
Is there some ablilites that do seem to cause issues ? Yes, but HG isnt one of them. In fact divine DG seems to cause me more hiccups then HG does at all.
Your just plain wrong here. Either you do not have correct knowledge of this class or you want to somehow throw this out as a TROLL because you want to justify not using this skill on your DC (which again, if you dont want to use it, dont.. but for jimminy crickets DO not come on this forum and troll)
HG I honestly am not sure as it does not heal anymore.
AS and healing in general though, I will say this. Cleric heals as oppossed to lifesteal puts little plus marks that float around your character. Each and every time I've seen those marks start to float around my SW in tiamat has resulted in immediate lag. Everytime. When those pluses are not there I've only lagged maybe 1% of the time. To me that is very convincing and unless you can offer an alternative to that, the problem is clerics.
The problem could very well be that the raid was not designed for a "zerg" of 25 players standing in the same spot throwing everything they got at one head at a time.
If it was only that please explain my circumstances where I only lag 1% of the time when not receiving dc healing and 100% of the time when I do. If you can explain that, I will listen to arguments that dc powers are not the cause.
AS up on dragon: lag. As soon as I let AS expire, everything returns to normal.
I do believe there is a compounding factor to this though, and that is that the lag will likely only occur on the black and green heads.
I think this is due to the DoT quality of these attacks. When 25 people are simultaneously getting damaged and getting little ticks of healing with every bit of damage they deal, this really seems to clog things up. (I haven't done a whole lot of testing of this theory, though, as I really have to need to run it on my DC anymore.)
I'm quite certain, also, that hallowed ground does not contribute to lag.
It's sparklies may have lagged lower spec gpu's that didnt' turn down their settings is all I can think of. But that's fps lag not lag lag like what AS causes.
I have a relatively high end GPU and I run NW on really minimal graphic settings, so I am 99% certain the lag was not graphical.
This doesn't rule out that the problem is client-side though.
I just edited my post a little to make it clearer. I was mostly agreeing with you, and I think you thought I was refering to something else.
He doesn't have to explain why not.
The null hypothesis here is that Astral Seal does NOT cause lag.
Proponents of the "AS Lag" hypothesis must prove that it DOES.
Also, let's review the logic of your argument:
I noticed that when I hear astral seal being cast I lag.
Therefore, Astral Seal causes lag.
I noticed that there are more drowning deaths in the Summer than in the Winter.
Therefore... Summer weather causes people to drown.
Same logic.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Respectfully, yours is a statistical N value of one. Not statistically significant.
Also, your data collection is flawed.
How can you prove it was one specific DC encounter... rather than the hundreds of other encounter, item and boon combinations?
Did you document no other combinations were being used?
How did you quantify and correct for those?
Please show us controlled data/evidence that the DC powers in question are the SOLE cause of the lag.
Until you do, this is speculation.
TLDR: The cause of Tiamat lag is unproven.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Actually I think based on past evidence it's any dc healing combined with the known problems that burning guidance has. It's just that AS is a high source of lots of healing ticks. While correlation does not equal causation, all any of us can do without the source code is look for correlation. So unless you have another possible correlation that could explain it, it is something that needs the dev's attention and investigation. Trying to say that any of us could prove causation without the source code is just looking to go nuh uh it's not me while ruining the experience of others like most of the selfish dc's that infest that class.
Any DC that doesn't have the Shared Burdens feat should be just fine using Astral Seal, except for the fact that players who don't understand the full root causes will scream at them for allegedly causing lag.
Neverwinter Census 2017
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very frustrating when Legion Devils and Erinyes can continue to attack YOU while you stand still in a lag fest. Once the lag ends, you find yourself dead or very close to it.
I'd be happy if the DCs stopped using Sunburst (and the CWs stop using repel).
There are bad players on every class, using incorrect skills and/or badly geared, built for this instance, as long as there is enough competent people in every instance, it will succeed.
I figure a target of around 10 is usually enough to do that.
1 good debuffing DC is enough to carry a low dps instance to a win, but you still need 2-3 poeple at each cleric (4-5) at middle stage, to keep it going.
and yes.. SB is annoying, you shouldn't use that , unless YOU have to use it, which would be pretty rare.
(blowing things up with my SW this morning with TT, and BAM stupid , STUPID sb users. Do you not see me blowing them up? At least WAIT till TT is done, but so many people dont understand other classes at all, which is the basic problem here.)
Pay attention read other class guides, see what they complain about, or play through them all. You can get a fairly accurate knowledge base with them all by rolling and running them for a bit.
Other 2 options have been DG and HW / (PoD when I switched to DO)
If you're pure righteous with condemn feat, 3D-SB -> ESB ->1 more encounter means you put up a condemn debuff during head phase within 5secs for a 15% offensive buff for the frontline melees along with AoE HoT and DoT.
During cleric phase, any touch by a mob on the cleric keeps her down for 5-10secs which is valuable time lost.
Do you actually expect to dps down every single mob when they just keep respawning on keep them away with SB?
First I assume you mean "or keep" not "on keep". So going from there.
Yes, it's far easier to keep them away by burning them down. In fact if no one does any knockbacks I can keep a whole spawns worth tied up and dying by myself. However once someone hits some with a knockback, that plan goes out the window as suddenly I'm not hitting them all with my aoes.
Yes it's "or keep".
If playing by standard dungeon clear style and without knockback tactics, either a dpser tagger takes the role or an offtank on kiting duty.
Tiamat clearly doesn't have that luxury when half the raid are doing their own stuffs.
It's a very rare occurence for me to witness someone attempting.
The easiest and most direct method for me had been standing near the cleric and just D-SB and E-SB until someone realizes the need to get the mob away from the centre and get the mobs attention to chase them instead.
Black head(rare), green head, blue head(rare). Slide show rather than latency usually; fixed by lowering settings if it doesn't clear.
This is independent of whether anyone in instance is using Astral Seal. It's easy to tell if it's up or not, the icon is very distinct and unique. I'll be in instances with three Astral Seals up and nothing, and instances with none at all and boom slideshow/rubber.
I use Astral Seal. Every run I'm in with my DC. So do other DCs. Maybe one time in ten there's a twinge of lag when the second goes up. I'm willing to bet that, as BeckyLunatic pointed out, it's a Faithful with Shared Burdens and Burning Guidance, which is the combination that causes the lag.
Your standard Righteous using ASeal to keep the Burning Guidance procs going isn't doing it.
I'd say 'stop yelling at me', but oddly enough, during the runs I never see anyone complain about it when they complain about everything else possible...
...also add in Ice Storm, please.
I can understand objections against the use of non-divine Sunburst during the Cleric Phase.
I will never ever cease to use divine sunburst, as long as I keep using High Prophet in Tiamat...
...standing on the Devil respawn, fire off all three divines to debuff all (or 5) of them fully, then follow up with a non-divine Forgemaster's Flame to buff all nearby allies is what I do - and it makes the devils melt. If this is supplemented by somebody elses Icy Terrain or Chains, the rota just works gloriously, or if some other player steps in to take the aggro away. If I'm surrounded by less proficient players, though, sometimes the normal Sunburst will be used due to survival issues...
Also, during initial rush for the Souls and the heads phases, the non divine Sunburst has an immense utility value.
And regarding the lag: I get none from neither AS nor HG alone... ...the triple buffing described above, though, makes me lag often, especially e.g. in GG PvP, and especially often when there's more than one DC on the other team, adding even another ping-pong feedback loop. Some teams have started to abuse this exploit methodically, it seems...
This fits nicely with the positive feedback hypothesis I read above.
and I always use sunburst non-Divine version to knockback adds when they reach the cleric. (I position myself to make them fly a minimum distance) but i also sometimes like to empower sunburst x3 when ppl start whining, its effective when many melee players are around.