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Should PvP be fair?
darkballad
Member Posts: 1 Arc User
Should PvP be fair in order to appease the egos of the downtrodden and meek? Maybe to instill a sense of fairness and cooperation in the D&D community? At what costs?
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PvP needs to be fair enough that those who have climbed the ladder can readily defeat those who haven't.
Equal Team v. Team? Yes.
Rock < Paper < Scissors < Rock ...
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Not fair but competitive. If it is not competitive it merely serves to appease the egos of those who have paid the most to have their egos appeased. Don't ask me what that is all about from a psychological perspective, but I guess there is a market for it lol.
No thanks.
I agree. The same way a character worth $250 should be better than one worth $0 but not as good as one worth $2000. It should never be the case that only those who have access to competitive pvp are the ones who pay the most for their characters.
SWTOR did a great job in my opinion. The lower geared people get adjusted, not with the exact stats as the BiS crowd but kind of "enhanced". No clue if they changed said scaling system, since i have not played TOR for several years. And dang, pvp there was a lot of fun. However, Neverwinter is far more expensive than a $13/month sub based game and giving people who have no intention to either - farm or pay money an equal chance as someone who spent hundreds if not thousands of $ would be a little "unfair".
Gearscore is not a good measurement.
If someone with a 10,000GS regularly tramples someone with a 15,000GS how is that balanced?
ELO rates actual experiential evidence of a players aptitude level -- just because there aren't enough people at any given time to make "fair" 5 vs 5 teams doesn't mean it's wrong. ELO rating is far, far more accurate than gearscore.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Also there are players who use sets cus it gives more gearscore, but actually worse stats in the end.
Wonder if there were an enchant named "gearscore", which gives 2x more gs than a normal enchant but no real stat, how many would use it haha.
See this is where we fall into that trap again. Gearscore isn't perfect, but I'm coming to realize it is the best form of balance we have available. ELO clearly is not working for this case
Competitive? Yes, absolutely!
Currently, it's neither.
Gearscore is a weightclass, you don't put a featherweight against a heavy weight in sports - you don't put them together in pvp.
My perspective of fair:
1. You should not be punished too hard for playing certain class.
Classes are in general different therefore ideal equality is not possible. However if a class is totally neglected it will not be played and that leads to loss of dynamics in game. Game with no dynamics is boring. A boring game is a dead game.
Therefore every class should have their strengths and their weakness. These attributes should impact the fight but not instantly determine an outcome.
2. You should always be able to fight back.
By this i mean mechanics like one shooting, total fight control, immortality, should not be allowed to exist in game, and once found should be fixed asap.
3. More people of the similar skill level should always be stronger then one.
If more people cant beat up one then:
1 - They should not be fighting him to begin with - power gap to big.(brackets)
2 - There is something very wrong mechanics.(exploits, bugs, bad power implementation)
4. Time investment ~ money investment.
If either one is too big the game will lose its player base.
No it is not common sense. A game is about playing, the experience. To buy your way out and annihilate the rest is the opposite of what a game should be like. It's legalised cheating.
Now there are different ways to do this, but things should be more balanced and the gap shouldn't be so big. They can remove progression or have it less of a decider. Neither will happen. When you can't realistically farm your way to that level legit, it's just stupid.
Exactly. I mean, to say gearscore is the perfect stat to measure a player's worth isn't smart but to say gearscore is meaningless and 10k players always beat 15k GS players is equally stupid.
Gearscore means A LOT in PVP and PVE. There are certain exceptions and small stat differences that could be argued the other way, but it is still a big factor in potential player effectiveness
cc, dps, burst, stealth, speed, defence. those variables should balance across most classes. if one class is op in all of them and one sucks in all of them, then that is bad game design.
Teams should be balanced as much as possible, but I understand the limitations.
I find gear and stat choices to be valid but there are issues I have. It should not always be best to be a halfling and it should not always be best to emphasize con the way it is now. It should not be a completely different game in how one gears for PvE vs PvP (and both of these need addressed, with PvE being allowed to gear all offensive now and PvP being pretty much the opposite -- but not that you get away with it in PvP).
I don't like the influence of pots/food and such in PvP but I figure that is just my playstyle as I refuse to use them. I really do dislike the hard target and other macro abuse in PvP, though, as I feel that detracts from skill or skillful response. I also dislike the chain jumping in PvP (can always tell a PvP player in PvE without looking at their gear as they chain jump no matter what they are doing) with some having it on a repeat macro as they stand still and chain jump and for fear of being called a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> again I will repeat that that I think jumping should drain some stamina.
To summarize I would love PvP to be a challenge, but the only challenge I see in it now is being frustrated from being on a mismatched team and not having a chance from the minute you hit the 'join' button to being bored to death on a mismatched team and having a guaranteed win from the moment you pressed the 'join' button.
Oh I agree. and swtor pvp IS a lot of fun but it is not the action-combat crack that neverwinter is. What I am saying is it is no better for $250 characters to be no better than $0 characters than it is for $2000 characters to be no better than $0 dollar characters. So how should this be scaled? Note the great demand for brackets in pvp.
Is it so? Imho, OP has a twisted concept of "balance" in a mmorpg. I'd rather not have that.
It's not a primarily pvp game. The poll just reflects that. Perfect balance if it was created is great for pvp but boring in pve as everything is the same. I don't want perfect balance here, but it could be better than it is.
They could remove pve progression affecting pvp. I'm not saying they should, but the two can be completely different.
It is having an identity crisis. I think that in the effort to balance PvP they have made PvE so ridiculously easy that they removed any sense of challenge/achievement from it. In that same effort that have made PvP equally unfun. Personally I prefer challenging play from solo to 'raid' and PvP as well and there isn't any of that here. I have my friends, though, and so I remain. The foundry could be so much more than it is and it is shame to let it waste away as I have seen a lot of talent displayed within it.
This is regarding the pve portion of your post.
That follows the highly erroneous logic that each class accomplishes things the same way.
The DPS a DC does is very different than a CW.
A Combat HR tanks differently than a GF.
But each can end up with success if appropriate applied, but different methods. This is what keeps the game fresh and why I support having class balance.
Basically this. But with two maps, 1 game mode, this is not a pvp game. With the way gear works, this is not a pvp game. Pvp is a sideshow in this game and shouldn't be treated as anything else.
You don't need group anymore, the content of the game is just self-playable. You don't need guild effort or group effort.
You don't need to run instances to get the best gear, just run the wheel as a mouse alone in your cage.
By now, the only time I need a group is during Dominion. Funny thing. You only get social during PVP.
PVE is selfish in Neverwinter. I enter the game, say hallo to my guildmates and do my stuff. Not even enter Teamspeak anymore. No need to cooperate with others. NW today is more like a non-online game. You can get everything alone by doing everyday the same stuff over and over. Boring. PVP is the only time I enjoy.
The best online game PVP wise I've played is Aion, very well balanced class, Tons of cooperation needed, total war. I miss the cooperation with my guild, I miss the laugh during instances and the joy when me or some guild matesdrop some epic. This must be the spirit of a MMorpg. Neverwinetr WAS like that but with the latest 2 modules they have ruined everything.