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What is wrong with GF's? All they do is walk in circles?
doriangreigh
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 707 Arc User
WHY on earth are there so many GF that do nothing but walk around in a circle stabbing dragons? They have a shield up so they can or should be able to tank dragon breath, usually they aren't really being flanked by much since DPS typically kills adds that show up before I can even target them. So why are there GF that treat this game like a FPS and circle strafe? That is really all they are doing ... walk stab walk stab walk stab enforced threat walk stab ...
In my opinion this is intentional to literally kill people (aka griefing) and in NO way supporting or helping other than tail slapping as many people as possible for kicks.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that concept of tanking, you stand your ground hold the boss or enemies in on spot for DPS to deal damage/kill things.
IF a GF would just stand there and take damage with teh shield up they will get Great Success every time just from taking/absorbing damage so there is no reason to try to stop DPS players form dealing damage by killing them.
TR do the same thing, end up stealing aggro and then they run all over the place ... which is to be somewhat expected but for the love of god can we get an AGRO dump skill for these players that like to run in unload and find themselve with agro they don't want?
HR are the worst ... they don't even want to wait for melee to jump in they want to split or aim shot everything before anyone else and then get all scared running all over the map trying to run away when all they have to do is wait 3 seconds or 2 even to let someone get a couple of hits in to make it less likely the HR needs to run away.
I know GF are not like traditional tanks and everyone in this game has not time for anything other than nuking (because using actual tactics takes too long apparently). I have found that between enforced threat, iron warrior and into the fray, my stamina meter never empties and so far I can keep threat ... I am not very skilled in using knights valor but am learning so I can probably swap out into the fray or even iron warrior but I am very spoiled on keeping my shield up, I can walk from one end of the map to the other with my shield up using those powers, obviously the only time my shild is down is activation powers ... which I kinda wish you could activate powers without dropping your shield.
In my opinion this is intentional to literally kill people (aka griefing) and in NO way supporting or helping other than tail slapping as many people as possible for kicks.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that concept of tanking, you stand your ground hold the boss or enemies in on spot for DPS to deal damage/kill things.
IF a GF would just stand there and take damage with teh shield up they will get Great Success every time just from taking/absorbing damage so there is no reason to try to stop DPS players form dealing damage by killing them.
TR do the same thing, end up stealing aggro and then they run all over the place ... which is to be somewhat expected but for the love of god can we get an AGRO dump skill for these players that like to run in unload and find themselve with agro they don't want?
HR are the worst ... they don't even want to wait for melee to jump in they want to split or aim shot everything before anyone else and then get all scared running all over the map trying to run away when all they have to do is wait 3 seconds or 2 even to let someone get a couple of hits in to make it less likely the HR needs to run away.
I know GF are not like traditional tanks and everyone in this game has not time for anything other than nuking (because using actual tactics takes too long apparently). I have found that between enforced threat, iron warrior and into the fray, my stamina meter never empties and so far I can keep threat ... I am not very skilled in using knights valor but am learning so I can probably swap out into the fray or even iron warrior but I am very spoiled on keeping my shield up, I can walk from one end of the map to the other with my shield up using those powers, obviously the only time my shild is down is activation powers ... which I kinda wish you could activate powers without dropping your shield.
Post edited by doriangreigh on
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The ones attacking from the sides are most likely trying to get that 500K plus damage screenshot which is best from the sides. :rolleyes:
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if i run KV i make lag they say? iam a bot-buffer its the last nice name, so or i run kv ITF or i better not go on dungeons, more than a class/game problem its a social/personality/ego problem, i want to be the best, i want just 20K GS ppl, i want just dps, theres no need for GF in game 90% the player say that.
is your problem, having the aggro on u in a dragon fight? u have a slide skill making u avoid and immune to dmg for a 2 sec, u have high dmg + life steal u dont die. if u do its gf fault, but why if ppl dont need GF?
now for your answer - stab generates aggro so stab, not every gf have a permanent shield build, and even with shield up u get dmg + if u have kv on u take dmg from other 5 stupid ppl thta dont avoid reds + if u want a good drop, taking dmg doesn't seem to give it to u on dragons (only decent drops in dragons on my gf was full dps skilled).
+ u hit 60 WoD there a go 10-11kGS GF hummm i dont see them surviving that good just buy block dragon attacks.
lol. well said
imagine this shield up u can only use 2 at-wills stab and shield slam both have like 1k base dmg. its like asking any other class just to use at-wills.
and yes dps mentality, why theres tones of DC's now when a few weeks ago if u saw 1 as like a alts farmer for leadership?
p.s to all gf hater out there i say make 1, and them talk about it. i am tired of GF should do this or that or that, but 90% of those so called GF experts never did a dungeon playing as 1. (not talking directly to u mrvincent1959).
There is a reason there is a "class role" you play a certain way, sure you have powers and feats that change things up ... but if you are a GF you tell me why on earth you walk in circles ...
In fact why does anyone walking in cirlces stabbing or the like ...
CW SW tend to stand and dps as they should ... they move when they HAVE too ... GF doesn't HAVE to move ... GWF their mechanic is to move but for some reason they like to move in the biggest arcs or the largest degrees possible and its UNECCESSARY.
You move to avoid something ...
I can tell you with 100% certainty that I have every class except a TR and as a GWF (non sentinel) I can stand and dps without running from one end of hte boss to the other ... i have to move a little but I don't have run in freaking circles ...
I will not complain if someone can actually give a reason to move in such dramatic ways for a GF.
THIS IS NOT A FPS circles strafing is NOT a plausible tactic in this game ... AT ALL.
Now for the GF that says they are DPS .... NO GF can achieve the DPS of a DPS class unless the players of the DPS class just suck. If you are playing a GF you are playing a "guardian fighter" that tells you right there you are NOT out nuking mobs doing AoE damage, you are out there taking threat AWAY from DPS classes so they can do their job which is DEALING damage.
SO what part of "role" do you or anyone else NOT understand? DC = debuff/heal = leader, TR/CW = control/dps = striker, GWF = dps (with some tanking ability if specced) = striker/maybe off tank, SW = nuke (w/ tryrannical threat) = striker, HR = dps = striker.
There are clear variations of how those classes are played but their "ROLES" are still what they are intended for. So if you are a GF and you are saying you are DPS then you CHOSE the wrong class to play. Even with their ability enhanced to do more damage they still can't hold a candle to CW/SW/GWF as long as they are competitant. Even my 15k SW was dealing out more damage than some 17k+ groups I was with (as long as I diddn't get overzealous and end up doing damage that gave me aggro causeing me to stop dealing damage).
The point of the GF class is to allow other classes to do their jobs, DC heal debuff and others to deal damage quickly and efficiently.
Now some builds are better for this role than others but all the basic skills are there and with a shield there is NO reason for a GF to not stand his ground unless for a short bit when they can't keep it up because they chose to "attempt" to deal damage instead of picking feats and powers that help keep the shield up.
So, my challenge is this ... what legitimate reason is there for a GF to constantly walk in a circle ... I don't wanna hear anything about dodge because that is what the shield is for and frankly most have their shield up when doing. With a shield up you take virtually NO damage from melee attacks from dragons and not that much from dragon breath unless its a blob on the ground that can hit you from behind, but then again you only need to move to get out of it you don't keep walking around in circles!!!!!!!!
TO BE CLEAR, the issue is why are GF walking in circles ... they don't stop they just walk in a circle, how is that helpful to anyone including the GF, he can't deal damage with at wills to keep up with TRUE dps classes ... walking in circles gets other players killed because DPS especially ranged ones need to stand still to activate powers or build up stacks of whatever to increase damage.
So I say yet again ... what possible reason is there for circle strafing?
*edit*
I have seen GWF that sprint out of damage areas and then either sprint or charge or whatever right back without moving in 90 - 180 degree arcs.
On a side note ... i'll point out also that there are A LOT of players that say "there is only one way" to play a class. How many players say if you aren't in x type of gear you are stupid and gimp. If you don't use these powers in this class build you are stupid and gimp. How many people don't group with people based on these factors especially teh type of gear they have?
So don't tell me about players dictating play style ... its passively done on a regular basis EVERYDAY.
make a GF and then comment about GFs.
passionate GF here and this statement you say reminds me of CW who use knock back at the most innopurtune time and say "i can use this ability- just because i can"
yes you are in the dps race if you are constantly circling just to get your encounters off... btw i use my tanking and aggro encounters just fine while tanking with out having to circle around at all.
this statement resembles the DC's who spec for dps- they are not fit to heal a grp and the will tell you too.I mean DC who purchase and evolve dps encounters over heal ones and spec themselves out for their damage to do more rather than their heal do more. I dont mean stacking power which is good for heals, I mean stacking dps encounters with dps paragon powers and skill trees powers. The point is GF who want to sacrifice their defense for dps is fine but shouldn't try to tank in such a fashion that it messes with everyone else game... if you are a gf that is specced for damage then you belong under the wing along side the gwf's and TR's and you can spam your encounters to your hearts content.
When you role a guardian fighter and place yourself at the face of the target people expect you to be the tank or shed aggro to someone who can be the tank in a bigger picture, not just your selfish little world where you are a tank but are unique because you can do high dps as well in a grp setting- in front of a bunch of other people.
Also my GF I created a year ago topped dps in pve settings by using ae encounters and attacking grped up mobs with at wills and can still be done that way to this day without sacrificing any tanking atrtributes and shedding your responsibilities. Yes there will be a few times that other teammates might have a red circle cast on them regardless of what you do but it is your job to control those red spots as much as possible and moving in circles is just plain.... not smart.
And if you have lifesteal the damage done with guarded assault gets back your lost health when blocking.(In Pve)
At present my DC is specced for DPS and he also is an amazing healer. My GF is also a superb tank who can dish out pretty respectable damage (a severe drop from mod 2 where GF's were utter monsters). Both are possible once you're specced for it, have the ridiculous gear needed to excel at multiple roles, and have enough experience to pull it off.
Very often I do move my GF around a dragon. Not because he can't take the hits, but because there seem to be a significant number of players who don't position their own selves very well. So I'll move (and keep the dragon spinning) to pull his breath weapon away or to keep away from other spawn points. Nothing quite like the genius squishies who stand right on a cultist group spawn point and then start spamming help after they're frozen, rooted, and killed. With other solid people around, my GF will stand in place and take the hits with guarded assault.
But you can try kradazuur(or whatever) and the one in rotfhé valley, their breath is not blockable.
The breath is blockable if you have very low latency and excellent reflexes. As has been the case (and regularly reported) since day one, the time between the red area appearing and the actual attack is shorter than anything else in the game. So if you have high latency or are lagging, you may not see the red or it will appear at the same time as the attack.
read my first sentence again.... here ill re-write it for you right here...
"I can almost tank the whole dragon breath but if my guard meter survives the process there isn't anything left for what he happens to do next"
notice the guard meter part? and i do it without dragon pots. the point i was making is i dont have any problems tanking the dragon and directing him away from the masses without having to constantly circle the dragon so i can get my encounters off
I play a GF.
Here is what I do. If I need to side step a breath attack, I dodge left. If I need to dodge another one, and here is the big secret, I dodge in the other direction.
With this subtle trick, you too can tank like a pro, with any class. :rolleyes:
Uhhhh, you do realize that "damage taken" contributes to your success level in Heroic Encounters, right? Hold your shield up and face the dragon's breath attack, and you'll easily obtain Great Success. I've done this since Mod 4 rolled out, and my GF has been swimming in draconic and dragon bone gear drops.
Let all the DPSers race each other for top damage; the GF cannot possibly compete on that front so don't even try.
Addendum: It is also possible to block the blue dragon roar attacks (the one with dots of red on individual players). Just walk backwards a little bit until the center of the red dot is in front of your shield, not behind.
STOP RUNNING THROUGH ALL THE MOBS AFTER EACH DRAGON (especially GWF sprinting straight through them) leaving a nasty trail of roots and frozen balls, as GF don't any of have your dodges/teleports/sprints/slides, etc and we get hit and cannot mount and end up last to the next dragon.
It is a lot harder for us to get great success than your super dps classes, and even when we do it is based on damage taken, which it looks like doesn't count to gettting a decent drop because my GF never gets any belts despite getting great success and my CW gets them all the time. Even in Tiamat she keeps getting useless draconic templer gear but all my GF (who actaully wants it) gets pouches/enchantments.
One or two GFs surrounded by 25+ DPSers and a handful of companions that generate aggro, it isn't always easy to keep that dragon in place. My stupid healing companion can steal aggro from me.
And sometimes you have two GFs on either side of the dragon, the result being the dragon turns between the two.
I personally try and stand next to other GFs, but often they move away. A reason being, GFs stand a better chance of getting decent loot if they take damage. So, the GFs are trying to monopolise the damage, taking hits where it is safe to do so. I know I don't block most of the breath attacks if I know I can survive them, but I at least don't work against other GFs.
On my GWF. in GG, the last boss for the quick runs.
All party dead, cept me. Boss still 50%... all those thousands of mobs that spawn... yah they still there, ALL COMING FOR ME. (this was back before GWF was upgraded).
Okay so I did some jousting, hit boss, sprint, drink potion from the 50 things beating on me PLUS the boss who has that aoe HAMSTER that can 1 shot.
At first my dead group was going "man give it up...." My hands were too busy to reply... but I am Warlord Greebo. I aint going down without a fight.
First 5 mins group sayin "man lets start over" (mind you we couldnt as this was halfway thru the last run, and this group wasnt all that).
10 mins in I got boss down to 25% he now has like 100 little bad guys trying to get me. Im still rockin the joust/sprint/pot method... oh and you know i had my Unstoppable whenever I could get it.
15 mins in, he down to like 1% I got my group who went from "you are stupid if you think you can," the very same people are going "OMG you are a legend!" I kill the boss the door drops so they can come in and help with the adds. I drop dead after.... cus you know that was ALOT of work on my fingers.
Next day, Im with a guild group, and we were newb heavy (we had 1 vet CW and he died of embarrassment).. THE SAME THING HAPPENED. Well, wouldnt you know it? I DID IT ALL OVER AGAIN! GREEBLE GROBBLE!!!
your first sentence says "i chose to be a poopy tank because im jealous of dps classes"
I am a half orc tank with starting stats of 18 dex/str with full defense/deflection build(thats why i chose dex, not for attack but deflect) and i spam into the fray like a freak, i have up taunt and stamina rebuilding encounters. I do my duty and control the red spots and absorb all the damage so my team members can burn target down hard and fast so we can move on.
There isnt a thin line between being a team player and someone who only cares about their image.
A good strategy in WoD is to arrive at the dragon early and spin him around before the zerg comes so that they run into his tail. However, if you think that the dragon's gonna breathe in a bit, then keep him facing the oncoming players. Also watch for CW dodges and rotate the dragon so that they dodge into the tail.
A good way to do this efficiently is with a friend GF, you can alternate hard marking the dragon so he keeps spinning between you two.
First of all, GF is one of the best DPS classes in an even, 1v1 scenario.
Second, the GF is NOT A TANK, however tanking is one of its specialties. I like to play tactician, but I did a respec to balance my tanking ability.
Third, holding guard, and strafing or running to a better spot as you poke does 2 major things:
-Gradually increases threat,
-Prevents a massive loss in guard, which dragons breath is capable of doing.
Yes there are skills that can compensate for stamina loss, such as enforced threat, iron warrior, tide of iron, etc.
However, strafing is sometimes the best alternative during cool downs to prevent a dump in stamina, and therefor cycle back in to continue tanking.
Now when I play GF in dungeons, I used to stand still and duck-tank. This was back around launch, and I had Indom Warrior and Champ hybrid, and I had a ton of stamina. Now, long story short, I could out aggro ANYONE.. period. However, when you're in a group with CW or DC (CLERICS ARE NOT ONLY HEALERS), and they're not taking care of Ads, it's easy to be surrounded with combat advantage, and become overwhelmed. Also, if you want to tell people their roles, technically GF are to focus on larger, more powerful mobs, as CC classes are meant to handle small ads.
Anyway, during Epic Encounters, I mix tanking with DPS because, back to my point earlier, a GF is one of the top DPS classes in a 1v1 scenario. Here is my typical rotation for dps on Epic Encounters:
Mark, Knights Challenge, Tide of Iron, Lunging Strike, Griffons Wrath x3, Crescendo
Then with the gained aggro and cool downs coming in, I guard, stab (keep/gain aggro while marked and recover AP) and move as needed if I'm low on stamina, as well as throwing in Tide of Iron as often as I can in order to stand in the red as long as possible.
With stacked damage resistance and 200% damage, I can see my damage making a huge difference on the meter. And, at the same time I'm highly likely taking most of the damage when compared to other players, especially when using a 'cool down' period to stand in the red to 'tank' until ready to deal damage again.
Anyway, there's no single way to play a GF or any class. The same thing can be said about people playing TR, DC, SW, etc. GF tend to get the most abuse because, people like yourself, assume it's just a tank yet or believe that there's only one way to play the class.