You dont happend to play Tr do ya ... enough said.
I play a tr,gwf,gf,dc and lately im really font of my cw.
with everyone i have to adapt every mod that comes by (except for my cw that i dont really play that long)
all I stated above was actuall feeback to the opinion stated before me.
All u did is mock me.Please dont let it happen again
But IF you really think its that easy to play a tr in this mod, level a tr and bet your enchants in 1v1, with some of the esteemed cw's around and then lets see what you ll say about tr's in mod5 you troll
ps: if you really thinking to go to another game, please do!! dont just threaten to do it...
I play a tr,gwf,gf,dc and lately im really font of my cw.
with everyone i have to adapt every mod that comes by (except for my cw that i dont really play that long)
all I stated above was actuall feeback to the opinion stated before me.
All u did is mock me.Please dont happen again
But IF you really think its that easy to play a tr in this mod, plz level a tr and bet your enchants in 1v1, with some of the esteemed cw's around and then lets see what you ll say about tr's in mod5 you troll
ps: if you really thinking to go to another game, please do!! dont just threaten to do it..
You cant read can ya another *elitist* trying to sound good and mighty and failing bad..
Think its easy to play Tr lol you bet ya sweet little butt it is if you cant figure that out for yourself why its 4+ Tr in every single domination these days from out of 7 !! classes to pick from then you should seek help.
If you dont think its easy to play Tr this mod you should really seek some help as everybody else has a cake walk with it, seriously troll off we laughed enough at ya now.
Adapt your a joke but not a funny one. Played 15 matches today ..
13 4 Tr
1 3 Tr
1 5!!! Tr
Your all over the place those that play pvp change to Tr because you cant play anything else.
You hardly ever get to use abilitys because of daze cc <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that never ends followed by dubble proc BB or Lashing+exe.
The Tr are totally out of control and any defending them are either down right crazy or need something to compensate real life with.
Playing Tr today is like setting a pc game to immortal and run around killing stuff is redicules.
Not far away the only ones that will enter pvp is Tr and maby some immortal Dcs so you can fight it out yourself.
Myself i came to my limit today am doing some pve dailys and will move to another game if devs dont wake up from the coma they are in.
I have seen alot of abuse of classes in many games but cant say I seen it worse then this and that they havent done something about it is a dissgrace with all feedback they got.
If you play a Tr in pvp and dont think they are totally OP you are either cluess or downright lieing...
Exept for seeing a very good GF and 2 bis made cw that are good at working together against really bad Trs I dont see much.
If cant post any useful clips dont bother mkay i can post quite alot showing what a good Tr can do to a party and as a matter ofc it has been done several times so i save me the trubble.
Exept for seeing a very good GF and 2 bis made cw that are good at working together against really bad Trs I dont see much.
If cant post any useful clips dont bother mkay i can post quite alot showing what a good Tr can do to a party and as a matter ofc it has been done several times so i save me the trubble.
So u dont have a problem with the class, just with competent players!!!
Thank god we cleared this out
I'm fine with smoke bombe now, if you are skilled you can dodge it, but I think it would be fair to apply the same parameters to all CC type:
_If, after freeze, I can't re-freeze you for 6 seconds, daze should do the same. Now you can fall under a daze area (expecially in 20vs20) and die without beeing able to do something for ten seconds or so.
maybe i should have specified. 2 things one ive never been permafroze. and two the part i was talking about was how the devs dont want to fix op classes cause it makes them money. im hoping gf will be the next op class or scourge warlock. cause if there gonna keep doing it at least be creative. i mean its in no way a accident.
So u dont have a problem with the class, just with competent players!!!
Thank god we cleared this out
if you read what i write i clearly have issues with Tr class so does every non tr + alot of trs that dont need a game to compensate rl issues.
But with your logic being Tr class is nice and dandy I guess you can come to any conclution what so ever as reality does not applay to ya...
So why would 2 separate aoe powers from 2 separate classes behave the same way? People walk out of or dodge smoke bomb all the time which pretty much makes for a wasted encounter slot.
You can just walk out of Smoke Bomb without being daze but the time your being daze may varies from 2 to 5 seconds depending the time it took you to get out of it.
Because it's a total unbalance and unfair advantage for TR between 2 attacks that are supposed to control enemy.
So why TR should have overpower effective AOE control power while CW have a useless one?
You can just walk out of Smoke Bomb without being daze but the time your being daze may varies from 2 to 5 seconds depending the time it took you to get out of it.
Because it's a total unbalance and unfair advantage for TR between 2 attacks that are supposed to control enemy.
So why TR should have overpower effective AOE control power while CW have a useless one?
for the same reason icy rays is ranged and undodgable while lashing blade is dodgable and melee.
Different classes different powers different behaviours
Smoke bomb as a bigger area of effect and nearly immediate daze for 4 seconds (even if you just touching it with your toe) while CW Icy Terrain as a smaller area of effect and takes a lot of time before it freezes making it totally un useful in PVP.
Why there is this huge control advantage over CW is there a new class call Control Rogue?
Nerf Smoke Bomb area of effect and make it takes at least 4 seconds to take effect or enlarge Icy Terrain area of effect and make it freeze right away for 4 seconds and will see some balance between 2 similar attacks that is completely unbalance and unfaire.
No.
Please no more nerf threads.
I'd say something like "I'm sorry that a TR shredded you in PvP," but I'm not going to lie. I don't really care that your CW, a class that can be specced to excel in controlling either single enemies or managing large groups of them, was taken down by a TR, a class whose sole purpose is to deal maximum damage to a single target. Smoke bomb is one of the very few control tools that lets a TR pick out and focus on one enemy who isn't moving out of the cloud while the other enemies in the cloud take a small amount of damage (new thing, cool!) and aren't able to attack the TR in melee.
You really have several options as a CW, and I use them interchangably. The first is to remember that PvP is a team sport and you should only be soloing the TR if you're specced for it. If you're not, you have teammates to help you. The second is to (if you obviously didn't see the TR first and act accordingly) move out of the cloud (which means you did invest in both high defense and HP right? I mean, you must have since you're in PvP) to use a teleport away, lock down the TR with entangling force, hit them with whatever other encounters you have like those lovely rays, and then drop an ice knife on their head.
If you haven't really specced for PvP (come on, that's like 30 seconds at a campfire - tops) and are running with a solid PvE config, then drop the IT, hit them with CoI, blast them with chilling cloud, and poof! They're a roguesicle. That's really far from optimum in just about every respect and any halfway decent TR is going to kill you while you're doing it, but maybe you're faced with one of the less than halfway decent TR's.
But seriously, don't ask for nerfs to other classes.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
As a mainly CW player, i do not get this thread,
Smoke bomb CC time need a nerf is cc time on pvp but not because he have to be compared with icy terrain. ICy terrain is mainly no use in 90 % case in pvp since you require to maintain player on it and with all mechanism of all the class, it can be only effective against GF. (+ it require storm spell which actually is not the best suit to do as passive for pvp purpose).
Smoke bomb is too long, it simply kill reactivity in the fight. Whatever the class concerned when in pvp any control power should not have a time that permit more than one shot after control. when ever you win or loose, it not funny to be unable to move for too much time.
Same goes for long anim power where yo uare blocked and need to wait till anim finish.
Same goes for casting time.
When you speak about TR's matter. the real big problem and unfair vs other class is with the TR'S mechanism you don't need to have specific build or equipment to be fairly competitive. You have 3 paragon path and each of them is really competitive when it come to pvp, unless the whole other class you don't need to goes high in PV to make it. 25 K PV (every build) TR'S fighting any 40 + PV build with pvp spec on a fair ground is not what i call fairly. That why some TR'S player says TR have low survivability.
In any class, there is some kind of god player that have build and pvp lvl clearly above mine (not TR's but all class), and get many loose from them is frustating but understandable. What can be less understandable is to have a high rate of loose against a player that don't know how to play but using the OP class. By seeing a couple of fight (the way PV drop, the player move etc.. you can easely get a fairly idea of his lvl and just need to check is equipment to get his character's lvl)
As a mainly CW player, i do not get this thread,
Smoke bomb CC time need a nerf is cc time on pvp but not because he have to be compared with icy terrain. ICy terrain is mainly no use in 90 % case in pvp since you require to maintain player on it and with all mechanism of all the class, it can be only effective against GF. (+ it require storm spell which actually is not the best suit to do as passive for pvp purpose)....
That's wath the thread is about: Why there is this huge control advantage over CW is there a new class call Control Rogue? Why TR class has such insane control???
PS. GF combo- bull charge-> crescendo-> flourish-> bull charge. Full prone- stun combo. You are no even able to make single dodge, and probably as a CW you are dead or neraly dead after this combo.
gfs definitely have the advantage in a 1v1 against a cw because our shift ability is stronger. That's all. Calling out that combo means nothing when if a cw gets me, entangling force > repel > iceknife > icyrays and i am dead. Only a conqueror can one rotate a cw and a cw can one rotate a conqueror with alot of choices in their encounter slots to do it. But again it is harder for them to get the gf because gf are superior because our shift ability is stronger.
So why would 2 separate aoe powers from 2 separate classes behave the same way? People walk out of or dodge smoke bomb all the time which pretty much makes for a wasted encounter slot.
bull**** because say a gf out or gwf wouldn't be able to get to that tr for the duration of it. It basically grants them a huge breathing time and further giving them more advantage in pvp. I have use frontline surge a lot of times but it just gets deflected. I am not asking for a nerf to it but i think you aren't taking into effect all the utilities of this skill.
That's wath the thread is about: Why there is this huge control advantage over CW is there a new class call Control Rogue? Why TR class has such insane control???
Man this is where we have different view, I don't care that there is an other class or build that have good control. It's not written somewhere that it should be exclusive of CW. But when it come to PVP, actual smoke bomb is too far stronger than any other class control power. all control power from other class do not last more than 2 second, except smoke bomb which is also an aoe power. So i agree that smoke bomb should be much lower time control when it come to PVP not because it is stronger than ICY terrain but because is simply way too strong and allow to much possibility in pvp (allow 3 consecutive strike). Just making compare of two power like that goes nowhere since they both have other things behind.
I remember when people complained about CW over the top DPS and they CWs replied "CWs secondary role is damage dealer" so it's okay if their dps is higher that even TRs who's first role is damage dealer.
now we have the exact opposite, I don't see why CWs are complaining, when they basically got the same issue.
TRs secondary role is control, so there you have it.
gfs definitely have the advantage in a 1v1 against a cw because our shift ability is stronger. That's all. Calling out that combo means nothing when if a cw gets me, entangling force > repel > iceknife > icyrays and i am dead. Only a conqueror can one rotate a cw and a cw can one rotate a conqueror with alot of choices in their encounter slots to do it. But again it is harder for them to get the gf because gf are superior because our shift ability is stronger.
A good Conqueror GF will always beat a good CW 1v1
A good Conqueror GF will always beat a good CW 1v1
lol.
Not true.If it was true then there were more than 11 Gfs in first 50 pages and less than 48 CWs.
As gs grows up CW>GF.Whoever plays and sees these two clases clash sees that CW can make many mistakes yet it is not doomed.A Gf single mistake and he is controlled to death.
In any case it is a rare event cause there are extremely few Gfs.And one has to ask:Why if they are so op and they win the current N2 PVP class in 1vs1? Shouldn't be more?
At lower gs 12-16-17 yes GF>CW.But as gs goes up,PVp CWs get more tanky and reaching GF defence.While Gf defence stays the same and his dps never ever reaches the 50% of a good CW.
That is why above 20k -22k gs CW>GF.
Issuck2 don't play the game of the CWs.They always complain about their place in pvp while they were always were a strong class both pve and in pvp.Their shield on tab is op and their spell storm is bugged.They just whine asking indirectly for buffs and to hide their broken mechanics under the floor.Don't fall to their trap.
I had a friend a good Gf who was posting regularly in the forums .BiS at his time.i complained about CWs.He told me ."Use bull charge!! l2p!".We went together in pvp against a team with 2 Bis for the time CWs.He could not even reach at bull charge dinstance.After that i think he changed his view about how "weak" pvp CWs are.Just an example of how much CW propaganda has distorted reality.
PS:And because all the experts will start calling me nuub ,L2P,etc...Just show me a video where a GF defeats a BiS CW in one vs one...No?I guess so.Cause there is none!!! lol.Cws and their pitifull treacherous evil sneaky loathfull propaganda!
Edit:
Just forgot to mention...CWs SHOULD NO LONGER IGNORE 66% of TENACITY for CC purposes.Thanks!
lol.
Not true.If it was true then there were more than 11 Gfs in first 50 pages and less than 48 CWs.
Meh, I think you missed the point there.
Well there are a couple of reasons. There are just more CW players than GFs plain and simple. A whole year of the GF being ignored the past few modules have killed most of its population.
Furthermore, I was strictly talking in a 1v1 setting wherein the GF would spam shift until he catches the CW and chain prones him to death. As you can see on the leaderboard, a lot of the CWs there run with their own PVP guilds. If you didn't have your knowledge based on pugging, you'd know how CWs benefit A LOT from good teams...much more than a conqueror GF I would imagine.
A good Conqueror GF will always beat a good CW 1v1
If he hits Crescendo perhaps.
If he misses Crescendo or misses an encounter, leaving an open for a split second, he's dead or badly wounded, then the CW can just spam and proc Storm Spell and finish him off, even if he's blocking.
Beta player
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
I don't know why there's surprise here, we are NOT the class with the most CC:
Scoundrel has more CC
HR can pin people down for longer due to trapper roots being bugged.
DPS DC has more CC with the triple stun
It's funny perma-freezing was fixed a few days later, but the three above have been running around since module 5 started.
Probably because it takes Scoundrel longer to finish off oponnent than it took CW. That fact is still pretty true, Chilling Pres + Storm Spell + Perfect Vorpal + Chilling Advantage is pretty lethal in the right hands and the control can be disastrous. My not maxed CW is hitting for 50k with Ice Knife only with GPF.
But back on topic, Scoundrel prob takes most skill to master and has the most sense (Wouldn't you be in a daze is you were hit in the back of the skull with a knife, if not dead) the stuns are pretty long but it's on par considering the amount of damage that some classes can do (HRs, CWs, and DPS DCs are becoming just as lethal)
Edit: Forgot to add that It takes the most skill to master out of the TR paths (In general that statement is complete nonsense)
A good Conqueror GF will always beat a good CW 1v1
But sometimes that's not true. There's a CW on YouTube who missed 3 Ice Knifes in a row and still was able to beat a GF. CWs (crazy max char renegade ones of course) would actually be the best class (Tied with trapper Hr) once the DC/TR shinnanigans are over.
I remember when people complained about CW over the top DPS and they CWs replied "CWs secondary role is damage dealer" so it's okay if their dps is higher that even TRs who's first role is damage dealer.
now we have the exact opposite, I don't see why CWs are complaining, when they basically got the same issue.
TRs secondary role is control, so there you have it.
Well scoundrel TRs in particular are way too ridiculous. Smoke bomb is fine though.
In pvp, CWs to me feel like they lack in control compared to other classes though. We do have icy rays, but apart form that, a lot of classes have quicker control skills whereas CWs have more of a delay. Though it beats the poor SWs.
Comments
I play a tr,gwf,gf,dc and lately im really font of my cw.
with everyone i have to adapt every mod that comes by (except for my cw that i dont really play that long)
all I stated above was actuall feeback to the opinion stated before me.
All u did is mock me.Please dont let it happen again
But IF you really think its that easy to play a tr in this mod, level a tr and bet your enchants in 1v1, with some of the esteemed cw's around and then lets see what you ll say about tr's in mod5 you troll
ps: if you really thinking to go to another game, please do!! dont just threaten to do it...
You cant read can ya another *elitist* trying to sound good and mighty and failing bad..
Think its easy to play Tr lol you bet ya sweet little butt it is if you cant figure that out for yourself why its 4+ Tr in every single domination these days from out of 7 !! classes to pick from then you should seek help.
If you dont think its easy to play Tr this mod you should really seek some help as everybody else has a cake walk with it, seriously troll off we laughed enough at ya now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck3Bc-SEDbI&list=UUVjUUAyS6GgT42RvVQYb3AQ&index=8
NUFF SAID . DONT POST BEFORE YOU WATCH IT
Exept for seeing a very good GF and 2 bis made cw that are good at working together against really bad Trs I dont see much.
If cant post any useful clips dont bother mkay i can post quite alot showing what a good Tr can do to a party and as a matter ofc it has been done several times so i save me the trubble.
So u dont have a problem with the class, just with competent players!!!
Thank god we cleared this out
i second this all the way
perma freezing was fixed?
when lol
_If, after freeze, I can't re-freeze you for 6 seconds, daze should do the same. Now you can fall under a daze area (expecially in 20vs20) and die without beeing able to do something for ten seconds or so.
maybe i should have specified. 2 things one ive never been permafroze. and two the part i was talking about was how the devs dont want to fix op classes cause it makes them money. im hoping gf will be the next op class or scourge warlock. cause if there gonna keep doing it at least be creative. i mean its in no way a accident.
if you read what i write i clearly have issues with Tr class so does every non tr + alot of trs that dont need a game to compensate rl issues.
But with your logic being Tr class is nice and dandy I guess you can come to any conclution what so ever as reality does not applay to ya...
You can just walk out of Smoke Bomb without being daze but the time your being daze may varies from 2 to 5 seconds depending the time it took you to get out of it.
Because it's a total unbalance and unfair advantage for TR between 2 attacks that are supposed to control enemy.
So why TR should have overpower effective AOE control power while CW have a useless one?
Different classes different powers different behaviours
No.
Please no more nerf threads.
I'd say something like "I'm sorry that a TR shredded you in PvP," but I'm not going to lie. I don't really care that your CW, a class that can be specced to excel in controlling either single enemies or managing large groups of them, was taken down by a TR, a class whose sole purpose is to deal maximum damage to a single target. Smoke bomb is one of the very few control tools that lets a TR pick out and focus on one enemy who isn't moving out of the cloud while the other enemies in the cloud take a small amount of damage (new thing, cool!) and aren't able to attack the TR in melee.
You really have several options as a CW, and I use them interchangably. The first is to remember that PvP is a team sport and you should only be soloing the TR if you're specced for it. If you're not, you have teammates to help you. The second is to (if you obviously didn't see the TR first and act accordingly) move out of the cloud (which means you did invest in both high defense and HP right? I mean, you must have since you're in PvP) to use a teleport away, lock down the TR with entangling force, hit them with whatever other encounters you have like those lovely rays, and then drop an ice knife on their head.
If you haven't really specced for PvP (come on, that's like 30 seconds at a campfire - tops) and are running with a solid PvE config, then drop the IT, hit them with CoI, blast them with chilling cloud, and poof! They're a roguesicle. That's really far from optimum in just about every respect and any halfway decent TR is going to kill you while you're doing it, but maybe you're faced with one of the less than halfway decent TR's.
But seriously, don't ask for nerfs to other classes.
Smoke bomb CC time need a nerf is cc time on pvp but not because he have to be compared with icy terrain. ICy terrain is mainly no use in 90 % case in pvp since you require to maintain player on it and with all mechanism of all the class, it can be only effective against GF. (+ it require storm spell which actually is not the best suit to do as passive for pvp purpose).
Smoke bomb is too long, it simply kill reactivity in the fight. Whatever the class concerned when in pvp any control power should not have a time that permit more than one shot after control. when ever you win or loose, it not funny to be unable to move for too much time.
Same goes for long anim power where yo uare blocked and need to wait till anim finish.
Same goes for casting time.
When you speak about TR's matter. the real big problem and unfair vs other class is with the TR'S mechanism you don't need to have specific build or equipment to be fairly competitive. You have 3 paragon path and each of them is really competitive when it come to pvp, unless the whole other class you don't need to goes high in PV to make it. 25 K PV (every build) TR'S fighting any 40 + PV build with pvp spec on a fair ground is not what i call fairly. That why some TR'S player says TR have low survivability.
In any class, there is some kind of god player that have build and pvp lvl clearly above mine (not TR's but all class), and get many loose from them is frustating but understandable. What can be less understandable is to have a high rate of loose against a player that don't know how to play but using the OP class. By seeing a couple of fight (the way PV drop, the player move etc.. you can easely get a fairly idea of his lvl and just need to check is equipment to get his character's lvl)
now we have the exact opposite, I don't see why CWs are complaining, when they basically got the same issue.
TRs secondary role is control, so there you have it.
A good Conqueror GF will always beat a good CW 1v1
lol.
Not true.If it was true then there were more than 11 Gfs in first 50 pages and less than 48 CWs.
As gs grows up CW>GF.Whoever plays and sees these two clases clash sees that CW can make many mistakes yet it is not doomed.A Gf single mistake and he is controlled to death.
In any case it is a rare event cause there are extremely few Gfs.And one has to ask:Why if they are so op and they win the current N2 PVP class in 1vs1? Shouldn't be more?
At lower gs 12-16-17 yes GF>CW.But as gs goes up,PVp CWs get more tanky and reaching GF defence.While Gf defence stays the same and his dps never ever reaches the 50% of a good CW.
That is why above 20k -22k gs CW>GF.
Issuck2 don't play the game of the CWs.They always complain about their place in pvp while they were always were a strong class both pve and in pvp.Their shield on tab is op and their spell storm is bugged.They just whine asking indirectly for buffs and to hide their broken mechanics under the floor.Don't fall to their trap.
I had a friend a good Gf who was posting regularly in the forums .BiS at his time.i complained about CWs.He told me ."Use bull charge!! l2p!".We went together in pvp against a team with 2 Bis for the time CWs.He could not even reach at bull charge dinstance.After that i think he changed his view about how "weak" pvp CWs are.Just an example of how much CW propaganda has distorted reality.
PS:And because all the experts will start calling me nuub ,L2P,etc...Just show me a video where a GF defeats a BiS CW in one vs one...No?I guess so.Cause there is none!!! lol.Cws and their pitifull treacherous evil sneaky loathfull propaganda!
Edit:
Just forgot to mention...CWs SHOULD NO LONGER IGNORE 66% of TENACITY for CC purposes.Thanks!
Meh, I think you missed the point there.
Well there are a couple of reasons. There are just more CW players than GFs plain and simple. A whole year of the GF being ignored the past few modules have killed most of its population.
Furthermore, I was strictly talking in a 1v1 setting wherein the GF would spam shift until he catches the CW and chain prones him to death. As you can see on the leaderboard, a lot of the CWs there run with their own PVP guilds. If you didn't have your knowledge based on pugging, you'd know how CWs benefit A LOT from good teams...much more than a conqueror GF I would imagine.
If he hits Crescendo perhaps.
If he misses Crescendo or misses an encounter, leaving an open for a split second, he's dead or badly wounded, then the CW can just spam and proc Storm Spell and finish him off, even if he's blocking.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
I like the hats
Icy Terrain - not so bad.
This complaint has been supplied by a TR.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Probably because it takes Scoundrel longer to finish off oponnent than it took CW. That fact is still pretty true, Chilling Pres + Storm Spell + Perfect Vorpal + Chilling Advantage is pretty lethal in the right hands and the control can be disastrous. My not maxed CW is hitting for 50k with Ice Knife only with GPF.
But back on topic, Scoundrel prob takes most skill to master and has the most sense (Wouldn't you be in a daze is you were hit in the back of the skull with a knife, if not dead) the stuns are pretty long but it's on par considering the amount of damage that some classes can do (HRs, CWs, and DPS DCs are becoming just as lethal)
Edit: Forgot to add that It takes the most skill to master out of the TR paths (In general that statement is complete nonsense)
But sometimes that's not true. There's a CW on YouTube who missed 3 Ice Knifes in a row and still was able to beat a GF. CWs (crazy max char renegade ones of course) would actually be the best class (Tied with trapper Hr) once the DC/TR shinnanigans are over.
Well scoundrel TRs in particular are way too ridiculous. Smoke bomb is fine though.
In pvp, CWs to me feel like they lack in control compared to other classes though. We do have icy rays, but apart form that, a lot of classes have quicker control skills whereas CWs have more of a delay. Though it beats the poor SWs.