Yeah man. And I'm just a GRIEFER too. That's what you call people who select useful boons to help out while playing the game. Clearly the problem here is all the jerkwad DCs who chose Burning Guidance just to grief you and those 23 other people.
What else would you call someone that knowingly uses something that is known to be causing other people massive issues and makes the game unplayable for them? Seriously if you have a better term that emcompasses that, let me know.
What else would you call someone that knowingly uses something that is known to be causing other people massive issues and makes the game unplayable for them? Seriously if you have a better term that emcompasses that, let me know.
I'm not purposely trying to ruin your day. I'm playing the game just like you. I need Linus just like you. You seem to think that anyone who has burning guidance selected did it just so they can ruin your day. This is ridiculous. Have you not slept in days?
You're probably right though. I know I was using Augmented Thayan Bastion. It's so useful for me when I'm standing behind everyone, taking no damage. It was my favorite boon ever. But then I heard that I could mess up your day if I chose Burning Guidance instead, so now I just follow you around and pop heals everywhere you go. Darn me! I'm such a griefer, tossing those heals around all the time. Stupid healer. You're supposed to punch things. Brb, gonna go buy a girdle of strength since it's so much cheaper than respecing my character.
I'm not purposely trying to ruin your day. I'm playing the game just like you. I need Linus just like you. You seem to think that anyone who has burning guidance selected did it just so they can ruin your day. This is ridiculous. Have you not slept in days?
You're probably right though. I know I was using Augmented Thayan Bastion. It's so useful for me when I'm standing behind everyone, taking no damage. It was my favorite boon ever. But then I heard that I could mess up your day if I chose Burning Guidance instead, so now I just follow you around and pop heals everywhere you go. Darn me! I'm such a griefer, tossing those heals around all the time. Stupid healer. You're supposed to punch things. Brb, gonna go buy a girdle of strength since it's so much cheaper than respecing my character.
You're deflecting man. If you know that an action will make the game unplayable for others and you do it anyway, I can think of no better term for that than griefing. The fact that the action has such negative effects is horrible, as it shouldn't. But it does. You may not like it, but that is the best term to describe those actions. Unless you can provide another term?
You're deflecting man. If you know that an action will make the game unplayable for others and you do it anyway, I can think of no better term for that than griefing. The fact that the action has such negative effects is horrible, as it shouldn't. But it does. You may not like it, but that is the best term to describe those actions. Unless you can provide another term?
And you're directing your anger at the wrong parties and making a bunch of ridiculous assumptions. Half the people you scream at in Tiamat probably don't even speak English. But no, let's just assume that everyone who picked Burning Guidance did it so they could ruin your day. It's more fun if we just assume the world is nothing but jerks.
Edit: forgot to mention the ridiculous demands you're making too. You're all kinds of ridiculous today.
And you're directing your anger at the wrong parties and making a bunch of ridiculous assumptions. Half the people you scream at in Tiamat probably don't even speak English. But no, let's just assume that everyone who picked Burning Guidance did it so they could ruin your day. It's more fun if we just assume the world is nothing but jerks.
Well considering I don't even tend to say anything in Tiamat, other than verbally yelling at my computer screen, I think you're the one making assumptions now.
Yeah the only thing I ever say in Tiamat is "ty" if someone saves me because I dodged too late, or "good job guys" after we win. "Better luck next time" if we don't. You know, livin' that griefer life.
Yeah the only thing I ever say in Tiamat is "ty" if someone saves me because I dodged too late, or "good job guys" after we win. "Better luck next time" if we don't. You know, livin' that griefer life.
What point am I proving exactly? How are you not getting that obvious sarcasm? And how are you still not getting how ridiculous it is to demand that every DC spend Ad to respec their character. How are you still directing your anger at DCs trying to play the game, just as frustrated as you are, instead of at the people who should be fixing the game?
What point am I proving exactly? How are you not getting that obvious sarcasm? And how are you still not getting how ridiculous it is to demand that every DC spend Ad to respec their character. How are you still directing your anger at DCs trying to play the game, just as frustrated as you are, instead of at the people who should be fixing the game?
My point is that DC's will not stop knowingly, using BG, even though it hurts them and everyone else in groups with them, and because a proper fix will take time, the best way to give some server stability until that fix can be done is to turn burning guidance off and completely disable it.
My point is that DC's will not stop knowingly, using BG, even though it hurts them and everyone else in groups with them, and because a proper fix will take time, the best way to give some server stability until that fix can be done is to turn burning guidance off and completely disable it.
How did I prove that point for you? I even said I would respec my character, just for you. You're gonna have to pony up the AD for it though. It's "not much" right?
So you want to hold the server for ransom unless people pay you now? Please stop so this doesn't get closed.
0
leftyy13Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited January 2015
This thread is laughable. I'm griefed when 6K GS with no enchants whatsoever enter pvp domination. I'm griefed when I get in Tiamat runs with people that don't have the GS capable of outputting enough damage to win the battle wasting 20 minutes of my life. Like burning guidance, these other examples are WAI. Until the developer changes that baseline its not griefing. I'll be waiting for my respec token in the mail from the OP.
So you want to hold the server for ransom unless people pay you now? Please stop so this doesn't get closed.
So now I'm a terrorist holding all of Neverwinter hostage for a ransom of 80k AD? That's dumb. If I were going to hold all of Neverwinter hostage, I'd ridiculously demand WAY more AD than that. All of your AD for starters.
Here's an idea. Lets ask the devs to implement a feature that grants 160k AD to every cleric upon entering Tiamat. They use the first 80k to turn off burning guidance, and then afterwards, they have another 80k leftover to turn it back on.
People seriously believe Burning Guidance still causes lags for them?
Newsflash: It doesn't (anymore)!
I tested it myself and was unable to reproduce it under any circumstances. OPs information is outdated. Stop insulting innocent DCs! We are the ones that carry you through Tiamat.
People seriously believe Burning Guidance still causes lags for them?
Newsflash: It doesn't (anymore)!
I tested it myself and was unable to reproduce it under any circumstances. OPs information is outdated. Stop insulting innocent DCs! We are the ones that carry you through Tiamat.
As stated earlier, the fix was to introduce a 0.5 sec icd on a feat. This made things better but did not eliminate the problems. It now simply takes more people being around and more healing to cause it. The fix in the past helped, but did not eliminate the problem.
You say "Since there are a large number of griefers in f2p games and they've now gravitated to clerics to do this."
My advice to you if you know they are Griefers why not report them with evidence, it's very important to have evidence or are you just guessing this is the case?
I for one don't think griefers would bother to level to 60 just to grief Tiamat, I just can't see it. Most griefers like to hang in zone chat, Pm's and here on the forum.
I would if I was in your shoes I would try a better graphics card in my system and lower my graphics settings starting with trying lower settings.
You say "Since there are a large number of griefers in f2p games and they've now gravitated to clerics to do this."
My advice to you if you know they are Griefers why not report them with evidence, it's very important to have evidence or are you just guessing this is the case?
I for one don't think griefers would bother to level to 60 just to grief Tiamat, I just can't see it. Most griefers like to hang in zone chat, Pm's and here on the forum.
I would if I was in your shoes I would try a better graphics card in my system and lower my graphics settings starting with trying lower settings.
i7 4700HQ @2.4Ghz
16 GB ram
running on an ssd
with an nVidia 860m
Settings are on low for everything with as much as possible turned off. It's not a graphics or computer issue, it's a server issue when you get tons of procs from BG flying and overwhelming the server.
0
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited January 2015
Finaly today i got my off-hand suprize no DC was in my instance = no laag no slide show
We finished it by the second phase .
Burning guidance is a big part of the tiamat lag and the lag from other he's when a large zerg comes to them. When you get AS or any aoe healing, going with enough people there the server starts to pewter out and you get massive lag spikes so that a whole tiamat raid will start to run in slideshow mode. Since there are a large number of griefers in f2p games and they've now gravitated to clerics to do this. Please for the love of god disable burning guidance completely until you can fix it properly. Turn it off, break it so it does nothing till a proper fix can be done.
This needs actual confirmation. Had plenty of lag free runs with DC's running with astral seal and burning guidance. Had plenty of lagging runs without DC's as well as without anyone running AS or BG as far as I could tell.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
0
onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
edited January 2015
Burning guidance does cause lag during zerg runs. So does the new SW paragon path. So does Tiamat itself.
A few people hear about DCs causing lag and suddenly all lag is thanks to DCs. Everyone jumps on the bandwagon.
The problem isn't DCs. Poor coding is the culprit.
That's why to bandaid things till a proper code fix. Not calling for it's permanent removal, just until it can be properly fixed. If you have any information about the Soulbinder paragon causing problems post that up as well. That should be disabled until a proper fix can be implemented as well.
Burning guidance does cause lag during zerg runs. So does the new SW paragon path. So does Tiamat itself.
A few people hear about DCs causing lag and suddenly all lag is thanks to DCs. Everyone jumps on the bandwagon.
The problem isn't DCs. Poor coding is the culprit.
"The engines cannae take much more!"
I concur. You said it better than I can. Once a complaint "rumor" gets out it grows on its own no matter what. There are a LOT of contributors to any lag, including and especially the Tiamat issue. Any cause by "over-time" effects is only a tiny fraction of the problem. In my experience the biggest problem is all the moving mesh that's going on (player and NPC avatars) and all the ridiculous bling thrown in. It's killing CPUs and GPUs left and right.
Then on top of all that is the server ability to track all that stuff, causing the server side to drop to its knees. Then with all that data being tracked and processed and flung about back and forth through everyone's pipe the latency spikes like a hurricane.
It's the perfect storm of lag. Are DCs contributing? Sure. So are HRs, TRs, CWs, SWs, and GWFs.
But not GFs. Because they're the cool ones.
zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
edited January 2015
Yeah, many lags is in tiamat, but one specific is caused by faithfull dc's, its the one when evry1 r idle for liek 2 sec, do at-will/encounter and goes idle for next 2 sec and head hp is jumping by 5-10% evry 5 sec, thats the server lag dcs r causing,a nd its the most problematic one. Since it affects whole raid. I can understand its not dc's fault, well its not the first time they get the info that, they build is wiping out zerg dps. When they continue to use Astral Seal or whatever after they got info they r lagging whole raid, then its they fault. Its liek kicking from pvp, we have tool to do it, its not WAi, but it is, ppl r using it intentionaly, so ppl r using AS intentionaly after they find out they r causing lag. After all, bad actions again community r just bad, especilay when those r INTENTIONAL.
CRYPTIC's bad programing is the other side, but we players can prevent this annoying lag, if we r not stubborn or just trolls. Simle anology, u didnt stab that man, but u can pevent him to bleed out, if u dont u r almost as guilty as the one who stab him (cryptic in this case is a cutler ), at least thats the law in my country.
Yeah, many lags is in tiamat, but one specific is caused by faithfull dc's, its the one when evry1 r idle for liek 2 sec, do at-will/encounter and goes idle for next 2 sec and head hp is jumping by 5-10% evry 5 sec, thats the server lag dcs r causing,a nd its the most problematic one. Since it affects whole raid. I can understand its not dc's fault, well its not the first time they get the info that, they build is wiping out zerg dps. When they continue to use Astral Seal or whatever after they got info they r lagging whole raid, then its they fault. Its liek kicking from pvp, we have tool to do it, its not WAi, but it is, ppl r using it intentionaly, so ppl r using AS intentionaly after they find out they r causing lag. After all, bad actions again community r just bad, especilay when those r INTENTIONAL.
CRYPTIC's bad programing is the other side, but we players can prevent this annoying lag, if we r not stubborn or just trolls. Simle anology, u didnt stab that man, but u can pevent him to bleed out, if u dont u r almost as guilty as the one who stab him (cryptic in this case is a cutler ), at least thats the law in my country.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Please don't assume it's intentional just because it caused problems. A lot of us have DC's that are alts and aren't paying close attention to issues that don't revolve around our mains. I for one didn't know about this issue until today, and if I hadn't read the entire thread the problem still wouldn't be clear. It's not AS or BG, but *the combination of the two*. This is theoretically possible with any pair of effects where one triggers another: even a companion's active bonus could theoretically case this sort of lag if it triggered something that affected everyone.
The real issue is inadequate server-side filtering. We really don't need to know every little heal of every other player due to AS proccing: we only need overall health updates, and those should be throttled and/or consolidated over multiple ticks if necessary to manage bandwidth and server load. The same is true of damage dealt to and by other players, and potentially lots of other things. That's the real problem.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
You guys do realize that we cant blame DCs from proccing it right?
Asking them not to proc burning guidance is the same as telling them not to use their encounters, or telling to respect and not pick it up next time. and no I do not agree with you when you say they should just remove it as for now, it wont be fair to almost all the DC that using it.
You guys do realize that we cant blame DCs from proccing it right?
Asking them not to proc burning guidance is the same as telling them not to use their encounters, or telling to respect and not pick it up next time. and no I do not agree with you when you say they should just remove it as for now, it wont be fair to almost all the DC that using it.
Is it fair to those not playing the DC to make the game go unplayable? By the numbers more are hurt by burning guidance than would be hurt by removing it temporarily. Thus the right thing to do is to temporarily remove it.
Is it fair to those not playing the DC to make the game go unplayable? By the numbers more are hurt by burning guidance than would be hurt by removing it temporarily. Thus the right thing to do is to temporarily remove it.
That is assuming the power is the cause. You have yet to offer any shred of proof of this. You cant even get people in this topic to agree on the cause. Until you can prove it, or at the very least, get majority agreement on it. Its not fair to ask anyone to change their build to satisfy an angry, misinformed, minority.
Is it fair to those not playing the DC to make the game go unplayable? By the numbers more are hurt by burning guidance than would be hurt by removing it temporarily. Thus the right thing to do is to temporarily remove it.
Im talking from the DC perspective, a lot of players including yourself complain that DC wont stop using burning guidance, but you all fail to assess the situation from a DC perspective, Burning guidance isn't one of those powers you can slot/unslot if you choose to do.
This is out of hands for DCs so please let not make them to be the bad guys, a lot of their skills proc this boon, the only way for any DC to stop using it is to completely respect, that might not be as big a deal to you but it is to other players.
0
rickcase276Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,404Arc User
edited January 2015
If they should disable burning guidance then to me they need to do the same to icy terrain. It lags me worse than any other powers, even in an instance with just 2 people in it. And my main is a cleric, and for me burning guidance never procs in Tiamat battle, even using astral seal or sacred flame. Lately it only seems to proc in the Foundry, since they fixed it.
Is it fair to those not playing the DC to make the game go unplayable? By the numbers more are hurt by burning guidance than would be hurt by removing it temporarily. Thus the right thing to do is to temporarily remove it.
Sorry mate, but you haven't shown that it is a problem in any sense. Just had two silky smooth Tiamat runs with my DC - using astral seal and proccing burning guidance all the time. No lag for anyone (or at least, no complaints about it) and she went down int he 2nd round each time.
My poor GF seems to keep ending up in bugged runs, maybe the problem is GF's!
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Comments
What else would you call someone that knowingly uses something that is known to be causing other people massive issues and makes the game unplayable for them? Seriously if you have a better term that emcompasses that, let me know.
I'm not purposely trying to ruin your day. I'm playing the game just like you. I need Linus just like you. You seem to think that anyone who has burning guidance selected did it just so they can ruin your day. This is ridiculous. Have you not slept in days?
You're probably right though. I know I was using Augmented Thayan Bastion. It's so useful for me when I'm standing behind everyone, taking no damage. It was my favorite boon ever. But then I heard that I could mess up your day if I chose Burning Guidance instead, so now I just follow you around and pop heals everywhere you go. Darn me! I'm such a griefer, tossing those heals around all the time. Stupid healer. You're supposed to punch things. Brb, gonna go buy a girdle of strength since it's so much cheaper than respecing my character.
You're deflecting man. If you know that an action will make the game unplayable for others and you do it anyway, I can think of no better term for that than griefing. The fact that the action has such negative effects is horrible, as it shouldn't. But it does. You may not like it, but that is the best term to describe those actions. Unless you can provide another term?
And you're directing your anger at the wrong parties and making a bunch of ridiculous assumptions. Half the people you scream at in Tiamat probably don't even speak English. But no, let's just assume that everyone who picked Burning Guidance did it so they could ruin your day. It's more fun if we just assume the world is nothing but jerks.
Edit: forgot to mention the ridiculous demands you're making too. You're all kinds of ridiculous today.
Well considering I don't even tend to say anything in Tiamat, other than verbally yelling at my computer screen, I think you're the one making assumptions now.
I'm sorry you're proving my point for me.
What point am I proving exactly? How are you not getting that obvious sarcasm? And how are you still not getting how ridiculous it is to demand that every DC spend Ad to respec their character. How are you still directing your anger at DCs trying to play the game, just as frustrated as you are, instead of at the people who should be fixing the game?
My point is that DC's will not stop knowingly, using BG, even though it hurts them and everyone else in groups with them, and because a proper fix will take time, the best way to give some server stability until that fix can be done is to turn burning guidance off and completely disable it.
How did I prove that point for you? I even said I would respec my character, just for you. You're gonna have to pony up the AD for it though. It's "not much" right?
So now I'm a terrorist holding all of Neverwinter hostage for a ransom of 80k AD? That's dumb. If I were going to hold all of Neverwinter hostage, I'd ridiculously demand WAY more AD than that. All of your AD for starters.
Here's an idea. Lets ask the devs to implement a feature that grants 160k AD to every cleric upon entering Tiamat. They use the first 80k to turn off burning guidance, and then afterwards, they have another 80k leftover to turn it back on.
Newsflash: It doesn't (anymore)!
I tested it myself and was unable to reproduce it under any circumstances. OPs information is outdated. Stop insulting innocent DCs! We are the ones that carry you through Tiamat.
Heroes of Darkness
Retired since 02/15
My opinions are my own. Please do not judge my friends nor guild for my statements.
As stated earlier, the fix was to introduce a 0.5 sec icd on a feat. This made things better but did not eliminate the problems. It now simply takes more people being around and more healing to cause it. The fix in the past helped, but did not eliminate the problem.
My advice to you if you know they are Griefers why not report them with evidence, it's very important to have evidence or are you just guessing this is the case?
I for one don't think griefers would bother to level to 60 just to grief Tiamat, I just can't see it. Most griefers like to hang in zone chat, Pm's and here on the forum.
I would if I was in your shoes I would try a better graphics card in my system and lower my graphics settings starting with trying lower settings.
i7 4700HQ @2.4Ghz
16 GB ram
running on an ssd
with an nVidia 860m
Settings are on low for everything with as much as possible turned off. It's not a graphics or computer issue, it's a server issue when you get tons of procs from BG flying and overwhelming the server.
We finished it by the second phase .
This needs actual confirmation. Had plenty of lag free runs with DC's running with astral seal and burning guidance. Had plenty of lagging runs without DC's as well as without anyone running AS or BG as far as I could tell.
A few people hear about DCs causing lag and suddenly all lag is thanks to DCs. Everyone jumps on the bandwagon.
The problem isn't DCs. Poor coding is the culprit.
"The engines cannae take much more!"
That's why to bandaid things till a proper code fix. Not calling for it's permanent removal, just until it can be properly fixed. If you have any information about the Soulbinder paragon causing problems post that up as well. That should be disabled until a proper fix can be implemented as well.
I concur. You said it better than I can. Once a complaint "rumor" gets out it grows on its own no matter what. There are a LOT of contributors to any lag, including and especially the Tiamat issue. Any cause by "over-time" effects is only a tiny fraction of the problem. In my experience the biggest problem is all the moving mesh that's going on (player and NPC avatars) and all the ridiculous bling thrown in. It's killing CPUs and GPUs left and right.
Then on top of all that is the server ability to track all that stuff, causing the server side to drop to its knees. Then with all that data being tracked and processed and flung about back and forth through everyone's pipe the latency spikes like a hurricane.
It's the perfect storm of lag. Are DCs contributing? Sure. So are HRs, TRs, CWs, SWs, and GWFs.
But not GFs. Because they're the cool ones.
CRYPTIC's bad programing is the other side, but we players can prevent this annoying lag, if we r not stubborn or just trolls. Simle anology, u didnt stab that man, but u can pevent him to bleed out, if u dont u r almost as guilty as the one who stab him (cryptic in this case is a cutler
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Please don't assume it's intentional just because it caused problems. A lot of us have DC's that are alts and aren't paying close attention to issues that don't revolve around our mains. I for one didn't know about this issue until today, and if I hadn't read the entire thread the problem still wouldn't be clear. It's not AS or BG, but *the combination of the two*. This is theoretically possible with any pair of effects where one triggers another: even a companion's active bonus could theoretically case this sort of lag if it triggered something that affected everyone.
The real issue is inadequate server-side filtering. We really don't need to know every little heal of every other player due to AS proccing: we only need overall health updates, and those should be throttled and/or consolidated over multiple ticks if necessary to manage bandwidth and server load. The same is true of damage dealt to and by other players, and potentially lots of other things. That's the real problem.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Asking them not to proc burning guidance is the same as telling them not to use their encounters, or telling to respect and not pick it up next time. and no I do not agree with you when you say they should just remove it as for now, it wont be fair to almost all the DC that using it.
Is it fair to those not playing the DC to make the game go unplayable? By the numbers more are hurt by burning guidance than would be hurt by removing it temporarily. Thus the right thing to do is to temporarily remove it.
That is assuming the power is the cause. You have yet to offer any shred of proof of this. You cant even get people in this topic to agree on the cause. Until you can prove it, or at the very least, get majority agreement on it. Its not fair to ask anyone to change their build to satisfy an angry, misinformed, minority.
Im talking from the DC perspective, a lot of players including yourself complain that DC wont stop using burning guidance, but you all fail to assess the situation from a DC perspective, Burning guidance isn't one of those powers you can slot/unslot if you choose to do.
This is out of hands for DCs so please let not make them to be the bad guys, a lot of their skills proc this boon, the only way for any DC to stop using it is to completely respect, that might not be as big a deal to you but it is to other players.
Sorry mate, but you haven't shown that it is a problem in any sense. Just had two silky smooth Tiamat runs with my DC - using astral seal and proccing burning guidance all the time. No lag for anyone (or at least, no complaints about it) and she went down int he 2nd round each time.
My poor GF seems to keep ending up in bugged runs, maybe the problem is GF's!