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so when is the likeliehood of the Tiamat encounter having to become a skirmish ?
pelgrax
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 486 Arc User
So , how soon is the tiamat encounter likely to convert to becoming a skirmish ?
I'm just curious to see if any thought has been made for the future or are they just hoping for it to last until mod 6 comes out .
I know that the devs have said that they have no plans to change how it works but looking at the numbers of how many now run tiamat as per when it became available .
When it first started due to the number of players / toons being ran in order to get the linu's favours for the offhands / cloaks there were likely in excess of 80 instances ( propably much more - I just don't know for certain ) with 25 players in each instance per hour ran .
Now that the majority of these players have their offhands / cloaks for their toons , we see that now we only seem to get around 15 to 20 instances per hour .
A lot of these instances no longer have 25 players ( and maybe max out at around 23 ) .
As people can not enter as a group of 25 they resolved to going in at pre determined times to try to offset this queueing inability .
This in itself can lead to underpopulated instances as the system will start a group when it has " what it believes is enough " people rather than wait for the " requisite " 25 players for the raid .
My concern is that as the raids go on and less people run it then these instances will become even less populated which will lead to calls for the raids to become adjusted ( queue's , dumbed down etc ) as either due to the lower population base / lower amount of DPS achievable etc these instances will become even harder to complete .
I'm just curious to see if any thought has been made for the future or are they just hoping for it to last until mod 6 comes out .
I know that the devs have said that they have no plans to change how it works but looking at the numbers of how many now run tiamat as per when it became available .
When it first started due to the number of players / toons being ran in order to get the linu's favours for the offhands / cloaks there were likely in excess of 80 instances ( propably much more - I just don't know for certain ) with 25 players in each instance per hour ran .
Now that the majority of these players have their offhands / cloaks for their toons , we see that now we only seem to get around 15 to 20 instances per hour .
A lot of these instances no longer have 25 players ( and maybe max out at around 23 ) .
As people can not enter as a group of 25 they resolved to going in at pre determined times to try to offset this queueing inability .
This in itself can lead to underpopulated instances as the system will start a group when it has " what it believes is enough " people rather than wait for the " requisite " 25 players for the raid .
My concern is that as the raids go on and less people run it then these instances will become even less populated which will lead to calls for the raids to become adjusted ( queue's , dumbed down etc ) as either due to the lower population base / lower amount of DPS achievable etc these instances will become even harder to complete .
Post edited by pelgrax on
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I've also mentioned to people that it is going to be nigh impossible in a month or so to get 25 good people into it. The rewards just aren't there.
Yeah the content will be dead completely once mod 6 hits. I'm running as much as possible at the moment to try to get the 80 needed for boons now at this point. Tiamat has so many design flaws.
And I question the accuracy of your assertion that lots of instances are underpopulated. A few are, but not lots.
The number of Tiamat players will level off in time but there will always be enough to play.
You have a lot of optimism. The real question is will there be enough experienced players trying to play to have a chance of winning. Once mod 6 is here and there is something new to do. The answer to that is likely no.
Eventually, Tiamat will become almost impossible to defeat due to too many inexperienced players with poor gear or random gear.
Cryptic should increase requirement to enter Tiamat, otherwise, after module 6, Tiamat will become a waste of time since failure will be very likely. I am tired of having to play my buff/debuff dps DC (in High prophet) at certain times of the day (when groups are more likely to be weak), just to have a decent chance at beating Tiamat.
If we are talking about dying content, Tiamat shouldn't be mentioned first.
Just try to finish Icewind Dale PVP Campaign without friends
Not broke? We're talking about the same instance right? The real bummer is not effectively entering with those you want to. Kind of makes the game more antisocial where players blame pugs instead or cry elitism.
Lack of useful rewards
Lack of group mechanic to enter with friends
Instances can bug
Inconvenient entry point (though not the worst Ive ever seen and in line with the rest of the campaigns concept of having to walk for an hour to get where you need to go).
High amounts of Linus needed for boons. The items I can say are probably ok, but the boons are just way to high. Then add the books on top of it....
I gave up on grinding out 80 linu's favours ( per toon - I have 7 that are active with WoD ) for the boons .
Once I got my offhands I stopped . Will possibly grind maybe 1 or 2 more for the cloak , but that's pushing it .
The boons for this mod were poorly thought out compared to previous mods .
I know I can get the linus by trading the coins and chests in , but compared to the time it took to get the boons in the other areas it just isn't worth the grind / dailies to get them
Fixes: 1) allow premades to Q, add to Q setup so we can Q whenever.
2) drop linus required for boons to 20 for 6th and 25 for 7th, still more than the 15 per offhand/cloak, but not crazy like 30 and 50.
Then what is the proposed solution? I already got my cloak,offhand on 4 characters + all boons on 2. I only ran Tiamat twice in the last week and it is horrible now(as if it was great before, but it's all relative). Most of my friends that haven't even finished off the boons have stopped running it too. It's going to be a ghost town soon and probably impossible to complete soon.
There is no solution. It's going to get a whimpering death most likely.
I don't think that's what's been said during the AMA Reddit.
There already is a system that handles 20-char instances in GG, so it is easily possible, but the amount of work to restructure or add Tiamat as a Skirmish is probably not something they want to do right now.
The Tiamat queue however would have worked slightly different. They planned to make it only available in the WoD adventure zone every half hour and need to get a massive amount of people q'd up in five minutes to avoid long queue time QQs. I think that's where the technical limitations that prevented it kick in.
But yes, it will never come. When was the last time they tweaked older content? Ex-fuggin-actly!
There are solutions, why say that there aren't?
First off, fix the most game breaking bugs. (like heads getting stuck and some powers/feats causing silly amounts of lag)
Then fix the hoard contribution ratio so a higher tier can actually be accomplished.
And lastly, put some decent rewards there. I feel insulted when I receive a MINOR resonance stone for defeating the 5 headed dragon.
Remove the t2 gear rewards and put something else there. t2 gear market is dead as it is. Nothing in the chest is worth spending a key on. Make all 3 books available for the tiamat loot table. But not with as high drop rate as it is now. Maybe put in some artifacts and un-bound cloaks. But at the same time nerfing drop rates across the board. Dragons, shores etc.
I stopped running Tiamat. It wasnt because of the bugs although they certainly helped, but it was because of the lack of a reward.
Not gonna grind that buggy hellhole for 50 more favors to get 1.5% crit severity!
Oh, and raise the minimum GS requirement to 15k.
I don't see these things as unreasonable to get going.
All those runs, 40 of them, and not a single win. A few close calls, some bugged, some no where near, but all losses. I literally wasted over 30 hours working tiamat for nothing. Wanna know why the fight is going to die? Because success is based more on luck tha anything else. You can be a 20k DC with heavy dps and buff/debuff, out damaging most TR and CW, but you will still loose because luck was not on your side. No one wants to fight one of the biggest, laggiest, hardest fights in the game for success to be determined on luck and lag.
Then, top it off, there are people who literally come in and remove their armour. Literally people sitting next to clerics with 5k GS. People are purposely sabatoging others, and there is no way to remove or replace them with an actual participant.
Tiamat is done, its useless and a waste of time. At least you can get liru from horde reclamation.
wow 40 failures no success? That's insane.
From your description, the only common denominator is you. And you are a cleric? let me guess, you use astral seal? plus you also probably sunburst constantly during cleric phase, amirite?
Seriously if your post is for real then you are doing something wrong. I doubt it is though. 10k pugs are beating tiamat 7-8 times out of 10. any semblance of skilled, geared characters are winning 95/100 times. there is 0 luck involved in this fight. Even bads are beating it more often than failing.
If you are serious and you've got 0 - 40 record, this is the part where you get all defensive about your power selection saying things like "there's nothing wrong with using astral seal or sunburst in tiamat" like you aren't the problem.
There are possible solutions. But from the comments I've read on the forums and ama they aren't going to be implemented. The dev's don't have a solution for any of the problems and aren't looking for one because they're on to mod 6. I am cynical and pessimistic, and if I am wrong I will be surprised. Happily surprised, but very very surprised. The most we might see is some bug fixes.
I'd seriously look at what you're doing. Some cleric combinations of powers and boons can slow the whole raid down to a few fps. I'm pretty sure you've said that you're a cleric in the past. It is really likely that you are the failure point with those numbers.
I would use sunburst to knock adds off cliffs at heads, or away from clerics if they are overwhelemed. Otherwise, I usually sit at spawn and attack them.
My setup is Lance and Astral seal(I DO NOT USE SEAL during tiamat, I just leave it since I usually run a healers build for non raid stuff) and my encounters are switched to Divine Glow, Break the Spirit and Forgemasters for buff/debuff stacks. I use hallowed ground for daily, never use my other, so I dont even remember what it is.
14kGS buff/debuff DC with 40 losses. Dead even, I counted.
Does hallowed ground still have the possibility to be feated to grant a heal with it and if so do you have it? I haven't been on a dc in a long time since I got my dc artifact so....
Do you have burning guidance from dread ring?
Seriously something is up. You're failure rate is so far outside of normal. My failure rate is about 15% and that is from bugs usually.
I use burning guidance, it helps alot for everything else, and I know it doesnt help the raid hardly any, so I keep my distance to not proc it.
No you cant spec Ground to heal anymore. Sad face, that was great back in the day.
And I cant help that my fail rate is 100% after 40 runs, for me, Its like walking into a destruction zone. Maybe your numbers are off, because most of the time, even when sitting in WoD, after a Tiamat fight while famring coffers, all I hear is people complaing about how a loss is so and so fault.
Like, its all the time. So with my fail rate, and that being all I ever hear, it seems more like the overall fail rate is around 40-50%
No, thanks. I already farmed my 160 Linu's favors, if I was able to complete my goal then a lot of people can do it as well.
It's getting difficult to find a good group but that's mostly because the high geared people already farmed their boons/items and there's no reason to go in there again, a very simple solution is that they should give us a reason that makes it more desirable like real RP not the dumb minor ressonance stone x1 and much more valuable items from the treasure chest, like more RP items, the companion cultist, etc, things like these. There's no really reason to spend AD in keys anymore, whatever you get out of this chest isn't worth more than the key. Give us a better loot, we will spend our AD (AD Sink).
Well I average about 3 runs a night and maybe fail one every other night. (I rounded a bit for 15%) Where are you getting your timer numbers from? If it's zone, that's pretty much the same as random.
lately its been around 130 I think, but I havent done a Tiamat run in over a week, so I dont care.
Well depending on when you last ran it. Fail numbers were higher a while ago as people were getting used to the zerg and the run in general. If you want to try to figure out if it was just bad luck from back then or something else going on ......... Your experience seems very very far from normal to me. My best guess is that you were either running it when people were still learning or you have something going on that is contributing to others lagging. The reason I say that is that every time I see the pluses from cleric healing on me I see my fps start to decline. So there is something going on with DC's still.
I agree with everything you just said and it does need to be fixed. I think you're right about the server, I actually think the problem is the server getting overwhelmed as well. I think it has to do with cleric aoe heals in general and perhaps burning guidance. Burning guidance has caused problems before and I think it's likely happening again though in a different way. My evidence of this is circumstantial mostly from seeing the cleric pluses on my character then seeing the fps plummet. I don't think the dev's lied, but I do think they only got part of the problem and not everything. As far as turning things down, it does help in some cases, I've noticed that with shadows on my character will lag every time.
The ones that fail are the loudest. The ones that say, "good job" are:
1) Rarer
2) Would just say it in the instance
There's also many tiamat instances, so say there was 80% win rate, that'd be 50 players that could potentially rage from 10 instances...
However at first i was more open to groups, then started to get fed up and got in at specific times. Something I didn't use to bother since there's no guarantee to get in the same group.