I would like to request a moderator to close this thread. No constructive points being made here whatsoever.
Just remove the trolls and a decent discussion can be made.
Just before the troll showed up and fekked up the thread, information was being passed out in terms of stamina and dodges... and then bam, the troll with his trolly shi*. Down goes the thread in the gutter.
Braindead trolls with L2P issues tend to do that.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Yes its true every tree can dodge now 4 times but with the old semi perma build i played since mod2 you had also a t2 feat in the sab path called nimble dodge which reduces the cost of your doges about 10% and this reduction was doubled in stealth. so with the sharandar boon/artifact you could easily get another 20% reduction so where is your problem? So we could "perma dodge" before mod 5 but now it is more vaiuble for a combat tr. if you guys dont believe me here is link to an old feat calculator http://ricardo.ishibashi.com.br/neverwinter/trickster_rogue_feat.html
Ironically, every TR is reduced to a Combat role, if not a half-assed stealth role.
I also have these feats and while it's easy to dodge all untimed attacks, it's hard to dodge that one timed CW CC. As I said, TR doesn't seem to be a class that's easily counterable by casuals who have no knowledge of mechanics and this seems to be a big problem. In Mod 5, I've only played TR and DC in PvP (Not including low level PvP) and even without abusing Empowered Astral Shield, TRs aren't a problem is you know how to dodge them. They miss LB and Daze and dodge away in fear.
I have yet to find another TR in a pug that plays as I do - fully ranged. However, I do know that we pose the most threat to every non GF/DC in the match. GF's last too long and it most DCs abuse Empowered Astral Shield. GFs seem to be the only class that I end up blowing all possible dodges on until I'm no longer visible.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
Another factor which makes life easy for us TRs is that most people are totally predictable.
Usually, right at the first given chance, it's a CC. It's really so friggin' easy to predict, especially the fighter-class players, that any TR trained and hardend since mod2 days where the fighters classes were at that prime, could probably survive the first 3~4 seconds of the fight against a fighter class unscathed with their eys closed. I understand things are difficult for the GFs since their mode of travel is limited and usually haven't got much else but to rely on lunge-type powers, but GWF... lol..
It actually kinda proves most of them players are just simply not up to snuff, as we used to kid around in mod2, where we'd say "they nothing but chumps who rely on raw power and invincible damage resistance -- all brute force, zero skill" and whaddayaknow. EXACTLY as foreseen. Take away a bit of that bullshi* damage resistance and determination gain... and they're just as chumpy as they were - except they can be killed this time. That, and probably every GWF player just blindly following the two-shot intimidation builds ... in terms of skill level they've actually devolved over time. Nowadays, all they do is just spring in, breathe in, breathe out, and hope for a two-shot kill. Nothing else they do.
In terms of difficulty facing GWFs, the "old school" method of using both FSL and TD, and Threatening Rush... these types were much more difficult to fight against, and not just because they were OP in mod2. They've generally had better timing in skill use. GWFs nowadays? Too much reliance on an AoE burping.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Find tr ın stealth and chase hım tıll they dıe lıke naab <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> hr was be able to fLlow us forever!!!! <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gwf was take down even wıthout see us (pro ones like steamroller or sobek) u guyz all have 0 clue information or skill to talk about trs.
They have already <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> nerf us like a boss now u are able to see us 2 sec.its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> enough if u have enough skill ofc
İts all about your skill base stop complain.
There is gwf who can kill me
There is hr who can kill me
There is cw who can kill me
There is dps dc who can kill me
Sooooo it means its possible yeaaaa not as easy as <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> mod 4 .
Show me your skill if u know what undoing ive respect
But u guyz die like ****ball and come here and complain like ****** all time <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> forum noobs
Yea im maddddd )) here boys love to talk like a girl hero on forum instead of come game and face in pvp...... <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> small boysss
İm in vacation when i come back i will record all my games and 1v1 and shıw u all how to beat tr as cw.hr.gwf. Or any other. İ hope u guyz can learn some
Yea im maddddd )) here boys love to talk like a girl hero on forum instead of come game and face in pvp...... <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> small boysss
İm in vacation when i come back i will record all my games and 1v1 and shıw u all how to beat tr as cw.hr.gwf. Or any other. İ hope u guyz can learn some
Open your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fx volume and listen game sound and try to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> dodge in a PRO time (if u pro) and dont get Daze
İf u are gwf. U have to know when u use your shift. İts not that easy now open your shift random and attack like crazy dog to ppl.
İ see tonsssss of gwf who think they know game but they open their unstoppable after eat my all cc dps when i go defansive they pop their unstobbale its real fun ))
Like this low quality dante or any other. ıTS NOT THAt Easy boysss
Open your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fx volume and listen game sound and try to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> dodge in a PRO time (if u pro) and dont get Daze
İf u are gwf. U have to know when u use your shift. İts not that easy now open your shift random and attack like crazy dog to ppl.
İ see tonsssss of gwf who think they know game but they open their unstoppable after eat my all cc dps when i go defansive they pop their unstobbale its real fun ))
It is rly hard for someone like you to understand that this game is heavily influenced by ping. There is a reason why all important esport competitions are LAN. What some can do for the vast majority is impossible due tech limitations, but they can be solved by making the game work at a slower pace and give enough time for 150-200+ to react.
They have already <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> nerf us like a boss now u are able to see us 2 sec.its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> enough if u have enough skill ofc
İts all about your skill base stop complain.
There is gwf who can kill me
There is hr who can kill me
There is cw who can kill me
There is dps dc who can kill me
Sooooo it means its possible yeaaaa not as easy as <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> mod 4 .
Show me your skill if u know what undoing ive respect
But u guyz die like ****ball and come here and complain like ****** all time <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> forum noobs
^^^
You think cause you are page 1 that you have the right to rage and swear at people?
Lol. Pvp elite my ***.
Open your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fx volume and listen game sound and try to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> dodge in a PRO time (if u pro) and dont get Daze
İf u are gwf. U have to know when u use your shift. İts not that easy now open your shift random and attack like crazy dog to ppl.
İ see tonsssss of gwf who think they know game but they open their unstoppable after eat my all cc dps when i go defansive they pop their unstobbale its real fun ))
Like this low quality dante or any other. ıTS NOT THAt Easy boysss
The OLDSCHOOL GWF players sure knew their timing well.
The sort of guys that made you wonder if they were using hacks or something because even if you fade away in stealth they would anticipate your position with such amazing accuracy and endlessly track you down. In many cases TRs would have to use up both their dodges even while in stealth just to throw off their estimation of your position.
Nowadays? Just sprint in, breathe in, breathe out. All they do. And they wonder why it's so difficult fighting TRs.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
The OLDSCHOOL GWF players sure knew their timing well.
The sort of guys that made you wonder if they were using hacks or something because even if you fade away in stealth they would anticipate your position with such amazing accuracy and endlessly track you down. In many cases TRs would have to use up both their dodges even while in stealth just to throw off their estimation of your position.
Nowadays? Just sprint in, breathe in, breathe out. All they do. And they wonder why it's so difficult fighting TRs.
I'll say first that now that TRs have the 2s visibility upon attacking, dodges are needed imho.
So i'm fine with TRs now.
About your post:
Old school TRs got 3 shorter dodges too. Not 4 long dodges. It makes a HUGE difference.
I've fought as you describe for 4 straight modules. Was difficult against good TRs cause as you described, they could double roll to make you lose track of them.
Then comes the other factor you TRs always fail to understand, and Orthzy described: PING.
Now, a TR doing his usual stealth rotation in old modules couldn't care less about ping cause it's all on your side. You do not need to really anticipate a move in a milliseconds-wide window of time. You do your rotation to reduce your vulnerability to almost nothing.
It's the enemy who must "time like a pro" to hit in those milliseconds or dodge in those milliseconds.
TOO BAD Lord Ping is there and for some of us living out of the US, it's not a minor thing to take into account.
What TRs have been saying till the latest 2s visibility change was:
Ok, i can hit you from stealth, hit quite hard (module 5) or hit from stealth (old modules), dodge long and dodge more (module 5) or combine stealth/dodge/immunity (old modules), decide when and where to attack and time my rotation client-side since i'm not reacting to what you do but rather doing a precise sequence of actions before going back to stealth (and only at that point i need to "react" to what you do, but i do that from a safe position/ distance), repeating it till you die.
But hey, it's fair cause you can fight back. If you listen to sounds, learn to predict and anticipate where and how an invisible target will move, and are lucky enough to do not have latency <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> your timing when you try to nail a 0.2s chance to hit said target.
That's "balance" from your point of view so far. A quite safe and lag-friendly gameplay vs a 99% skill-requiring gameplay where the enemy is trained and experienced enough to "predict" flawlessly what an invisible target will do. In old modules it was more balanced cause the less dodges and shorter dodges allowed a trained fighter to actually catch you if he could anticipate your move ( i got a TR one time asking me if i was using some power to see him through stealth cause i was tracking him perfectly, but he was not a BiS TR). Still, as PapaBiGN vs nanners video shows, a TR got the tools to kite a lot and slowly kill the enemy.
With module 5 the dodge buffs made it absurd. Now with stealth limitations it's fair.
I remember in the previous Mods receiving curses from other players for performing poorly in dominion, telling rogues cant kill and we are JUST TRASH OF THE GAME for being so weak in pvp and pve, but now that we got buffed and given the role striker/cc by the devs this hypocrites now whines about nerfs. Let me brand you all HYPOCRITES and TRASH.
Remember every time you ask for nerfs your head will swell and this word will come to your mind "HYPOCRITE" because this is what you are.
I remember in the previous Mods receiving curses from other players for performing poorly in dominion, telling rogues cant kill and we are JUST TRASH OF THE GAME for being so weak in pvp and pve, but now that we got buffed and given the role striker/cc by the devs this hypocrites now whines about nerfs. Let me brand you all HYPOCRITES and TRASH.
Remember every time you ask for nerfs your head will swell and this word will come to your mind "HYPOCRITE" because this is what you are.
I remember in the previous Mods receiving curses from other players for performing poorly in dominion, telling rogues cant kill and we are JUST TRASH OF THE GAME for being so weak in pvp and pve, but now that we got buffed and given the role striker/cc by the devs this hypocrites now whines about nerfs. Let me brand you all HYPOCRITES and TRASH.
Remember every time you ask for nerfs your head will swell and this word will come to your mind "HYPOCRITE" because this is what you are.
Right now TRs are almost in the right place they are supposed to be, imho. You guys now strike quite hard. Just need to get rid of one-shot moves or tenacity-ignoring stuff.
The stealth rework was NEEDED and you know it.
DPS needed a buff.
Survivability DIDN'T. Cause it was top-notch.
TRs were used in premades as node holders cause even when their DPS were not good, they could perform well thanks to their stealth. And you know it, and there are videos of nannersOG proving it, and other strong TRs as well.
I also can turn your reasoning right back at you: TRs cried so loud in the past about GWFs Roar, cried few weeks ago about target-lock, cried in the past about threatening rush and FLS. And ASKED FOR NERFS.
Before that, they were laughing at pre-module 1 GWF saying it was cute to see GWFs trying to kill thingys (cit.).
TRs have their fair share of cries and nerf requests.
The point is, such as in the case of Roar, some nerf requests are just right. Some others are not. TRs are not victims here and are currently in a good spot, better than many other classes.
This said, what i wrote above is just right. To your convenience you tried for quite long to make the situation seem normal, while it was not. If i have full control over the fight while the enemy must "predict" and nail fraction-of-a-second opportunities to just land a rotation, it's still not balance. It's skill overcoming the lack of balance.
Current situation is almost balanced. Just need to fix one-shotting moves and tenacity-ignoring stuff in PvP. Which is quite logical.
Right now TRs are almost in the right place they are supposed to be, imho.
The validity of this statement has come into question.
While I agree a few select Artifacts and Artifact Equips need to be changed, the nerf that TR received was misplaced.
You can argue our survivability was just fine in the past, however, it was the damage that was the problem. TRs never wanted to be able to 1v5 an entire team with a single Daily and come out unscathed, we just wanted to be ****ing useful.
So now we have a few boosts to survivability and oh, wait, this new nerf that technically defies the point of stealth. Meanwhile we're still seeing ridiculous amounts of crying on the forums and in game. The vast majority of this crying isn't "This invisible guy who was visible dodges 700 times and got away from me", it's more like "This invisible guy one-shotted me in stealth".
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the problem is the damage. The Disheartening Strike nerf was needed, the stealth nerf wasn't.
Then again, the devs themselves said they have no intention of changing TR damage so we'll just wait until TR becomes a nuclear warhead with no damage application.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
Right now TRs are almost in the right place they are supposed to be, imho. You guys now strike quite hard. Just need to get rid of one-shot moves or tenacity-ignoring stuff.
The stealth rework was NEEDED and you know it.
DPS needed a buff.
Survivability DIDN'T. Cause it was top-notch.
TRs were used in premades as node holders cause even when their DPS were not good, they could perform well thanks to their stealth. And you know it, and there are videos of nannersOG proving it, and other strong TRs as well.
I also can turn your reasoning right back at you: TRs cried so loud in the past about GWFs Roar, cried few weeks ago about target-lock, cried in the past about threatening rush and FLS. And ASKED FOR NERFS.
Before that, they were laughing at pre-module 1 GWF saying it was cute to see GWFs trying to kill thingys (cit.).
TRs have their fair share of cries and nerf requests.
The point is, such as in the case of Roar, some nerf requests are just right. Some others are not. TRs are not victims here and are currently in a good spot, better than many other classes.
This said, what i wrote above is just right. To your convenience you tried for quite long to make the situation seem normal, while it was not. If i have full control over the fight while the enemy must "predict" and nail fraction-of-a-second opportunities to just land a rotation, it's still not balance. It's skill overcoming the lack of balance.
Current situation is almost balanced. Just need to fix one-shotting moves and tenacity-ignoring stuff in PvP. Which is quite logical.
Everyone is whining about so many things about TR they blame it to dodge, deflect severity, to high damage, to stealth, to daze, to piercing damage (did I forget something?). But in GWF case all I can say is it needs some love its the worst class now.
The validity of this statement has come into question.
While I agree a few select Artifacts and Artifact Equips need to be changed, the nerf that TR received was misplaced.
You can argue our survivability was just fine in the past, however, it was the damage that was the problem. TRs never wanted to be able to 1v5 an entire team with a single Daily and come out unscathed, we just wanted to be ****ing useful.
So now we have a few boosts to survivability and oh, wait, this new nerf that technically defies the point of stealth. Meanwhile we're still seeing ridiculous amounts of crying on the forums and in game. The vast majority of this crying isn't "This invisible guy who was visible dodges 700 times and got away from me", it's more like "This invisible guy one-shotted me in stealth".
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the problem is the damage. The Disheartening Strike nerf was needed, the stealth nerf wasn't.
Then again, the devs themselves said they have no intention of changing TR damage so we'll just wait until TR becomes a nuclear warhead with no damage application.
Everyone is whining about so many things about TR they blame it to dodge, deflect severity, to high damage, to stealth, to daze, to piercing damage (did I forget something?). But in GWF case all I can say is it needs some love its the worst class now.
Module 4 TR got top-notch survivability. We know that cause they were in premades exactly for that reason: go cap enemy node. Permastealth/ semi-permastealth specifically, was the PvP build.
Damage was quite low, but mix of tools overall made them strong point-holders. It's a fact. Other classes needed lots of skills to catch a good TR.
Current TR got the DPS and the tools to proactively survive the 2s out of stealth. It's just like for any other class: you attack, then you are exposed and need to dodge or tank some damage.
The concept is just right. Devs already stated if something will require more balance, things will be changed.
Only things to still fix are 1-shot moves/ tenacity-ignoring stuff. DPS is one thing, 1shots are another thing. And tenacity must be there always in PvP.
Comments
Just remove the trolls and a decent discussion can be made.
Just before the troll showed up and fekked up the thread, information was being passed out in terms of stamina and dodges... and then bam, the troll with his trolly shi*. Down goes the thread in the gutter.
Braindead trolls with L2P issues tend to do that.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Ironically, every TR is reduced to a Combat role, if not a half-assed stealth role.
I also have these feats and while it's easy to dodge all untimed attacks, it's hard to dodge that one timed CW CC. As I said, TR doesn't seem to be a class that's easily counterable by casuals who have no knowledge of mechanics and this seems to be a big problem. In Mod 5, I've only played TR and DC in PvP (Not including low level PvP) and even without abusing Empowered Astral Shield, TRs aren't a problem is you know how to dodge them. They miss LB and Daze and dodge away in fear.
I have yet to find another TR in a pug that plays as I do - fully ranged. However, I do know that we pose the most threat to every non GF/DC in the match. GF's last too long and it most DCs abuse Empowered Astral Shield. GFs seem to be the only class that I end up blowing all possible dodges on until I'm no longer visible.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Usually, right at the first given chance, it's a CC. It's really so friggin' easy to predict, especially the fighter-class players, that any TR trained and hardend since mod2 days where the fighters classes were at that prime, could probably survive the first 3~4 seconds of the fight against a fighter class unscathed with their eys closed. I understand things are difficult for the GFs since their mode of travel is limited and usually haven't got much else but to rely on lunge-type powers, but GWF... lol..
It actually kinda proves most of them players are just simply not up to snuff, as we used to kid around in mod2, where we'd say "they nothing but chumps who rely on raw power and invincible damage resistance -- all brute force, zero skill" and whaddayaknow. EXACTLY as foreseen. Take away a bit of that bullshi* damage resistance and determination gain... and they're just as chumpy as they were - except they can be killed this time. That, and probably every GWF player just blindly following the two-shot intimidation builds ... in terms of skill level they've actually devolved over time. Nowadays, all they do is just spring in, breathe in, breathe out, and hope for a two-shot kill. Nothing else they do.
In terms of difficulty facing GWFs, the "old school" method of using both FSL and TD, and Threatening Rush... these types were much more difficult to fight against, and not just because they were OP in mod2. They've generally had better timing in skill use. GWFs nowadays? Too much reliance on an AoE burping.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
İve hit 1900 sta regen waste 15m to test it and u cant do it?!!!!
U guyz are 0 skill with 0 brain. And ad .
U should go back your cave u low skill gwf u were sux and u still sux
Find tr ın stealth and chase hım tıll they dıe lıke naab <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> hr was be able to fLlow us forever!!!! <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gwf was take down even wıthout see us (pro ones like steamroller or sobek) u guyz all have 0 clue information or skill to talk about trs.
U ppl make me sick and u guyz are very easy. Stop complaın u <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ******s
İts all about your skill base stop complain.
There is gwf who can kill me
There is hr who can kill me
There is cw who can kill me
There is dps dc who can kill me
Sooooo it means its possible yeaaaa not as easy as <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> mod 4 .
Show me your skill if u know what undoing ive respect
But u guyz die like ****ball and come here and complain like ****** all time <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> forum noobs
Yea im maddddd
İm in vacation when i come back i will record all my games and 1v1 and shıw u all how to beat tr as cw.hr.gwf. Or any other. İ hope u guyz can learn some
Can't wait. Hope you can show more than CC and SE
Lol i never use daily on 1v1
Open your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fx volume and listen game sound and try to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> dodge in a PRO time (if u pro) and dont get Daze
İf u are gwf. U have to know when u use your shift. İts not that easy now open your shift random and attack like crazy dog to ppl.
İ see tonsssss of gwf who think they know game but they open their unstoppable after eat my all cc dps when i go defansive they pop their unstobbale its real fun
Like this low quality dante or any other. ıTS NOT THAt Easy boysss
If you can read, just look on my signature....
It is rly hard for someone like you to understand that this game is heavily influenced by ping. There is a reason why all important esport competitions are LAN. What some can do for the vast majority is impossible due tech limitations, but they can be solved by making the game work at a slower pace and give enough time for 150-200+ to react.
Rage less and use your brain more pls.
And if in my signature will be link to photo of Sasha Gray- that makes me a Pornstar?:)
Your thinking is simple as daze and SE my dear
İ dont care who the *** u are.
İ was be able to *** u all in m3. M4 also when there wasnt any tr in game so dont talk to me dirty stupid pug.
Like u pugs dont need se or any ****
+ if u think its easy open one tr and offer me 1v1 let me show u how imfukmlike u pugs
Stupid nerds
^^^
You think cause you are page 1 that you have the right to rage and swear at people?
Lol. Pvp elite my ***.
The OLDSCHOOL GWF players sure knew their timing well.
The sort of guys that made you wonder if they were using hacks or something because even if you fade away in stealth they would anticipate your position with such amazing accuracy and endlessly track you down. In many cases TRs would have to use up both their dodges even while in stealth just to throw off their estimation of your position.
Nowadays? Just sprint in, breathe in, breathe out. All they do. And they wonder why it's so difficult fighting TRs.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
İm the best bro
I'll say first that now that TRs have the 2s visibility upon attacking, dodges are needed imho.
So i'm fine with TRs now.
About your post:
Old school TRs got 3 shorter dodges too. Not 4 long dodges. It makes a HUGE difference.
I've fought as you describe for 4 straight modules. Was difficult against good TRs cause as you described, they could double roll to make you lose track of them.
Then comes the other factor you TRs always fail to understand, and Orthzy described: PING.
Now, a TR doing his usual stealth rotation in old modules couldn't care less about ping cause it's all on your side. You do not need to really anticipate a move in a milliseconds-wide window of time. You do your rotation to reduce your vulnerability to almost nothing.
It's the enemy who must "time like a pro" to hit in those milliseconds or dodge in those milliseconds.
TOO BAD Lord Ping is there and for some of us living out of the US, it's not a minor thing to take into account.
What TRs have been saying till the latest 2s visibility change was:
Ok, i can hit you from stealth, hit quite hard (module 5) or hit from stealth (old modules), dodge long and dodge more (module 5) or combine stealth/dodge/immunity (old modules), decide when and where to attack and time my rotation client-side since i'm not reacting to what you do but rather doing a precise sequence of actions before going back to stealth (and only at that point i need to "react" to what you do, but i do that from a safe position/ distance), repeating it till you die.
But hey, it's fair cause you can fight back. If you listen to sounds, learn to predict and anticipate where and how an invisible target will move, and are lucky enough to do not have latency <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> your timing when you try to nail a 0.2s chance to hit said target.
That's "balance" from your point of view so far. A quite safe and lag-friendly gameplay vs a 99% skill-requiring gameplay where the enemy is trained and experienced enough to "predict" flawlessly what an invisible target will do. In old modules it was more balanced cause the less dodges and shorter dodges allowed a trained fighter to actually catch you if he could anticipate your move ( i got a TR one time asking me if i was using some power to see him through stealth cause i was tracking him perfectly, but he was not a BiS TR). Still, as PapaBiGN vs nanners video shows, a TR got the tools to kite a lot and slowly kill the enemy.
With module 5 the dodge buffs made it absurd. Now with stealth limitations it's fair.
Remember every time you ask for nerfs your head will swell and this word will come to your mind "HYPOCRITE" because this is what you are.
./clap clap clap clap clap
Right now TRs are almost in the right place they are supposed to be, imho. You guys now strike quite hard. Just need to get rid of one-shot moves or tenacity-ignoring stuff.
The stealth rework was NEEDED and you know it.
DPS needed a buff.
Survivability DIDN'T. Cause it was top-notch.
TRs were used in premades as node holders cause even when their DPS were not good, they could perform well thanks to their stealth. And you know it, and there are videos of nannersOG proving it, and other strong TRs as well.
I also can turn your reasoning right back at you: TRs cried so loud in the past about GWFs Roar, cried few weeks ago about target-lock, cried in the past about threatening rush and FLS. And ASKED FOR NERFS.
Before that, they were laughing at pre-module 1 GWF saying it was cute to see GWFs trying to kill thingys (cit.).
TRs have their fair share of cries and nerf requests.
The point is, such as in the case of Roar, some nerf requests are just right. Some others are not. TRs are not victims here and are currently in a good spot, better than many other classes.
This said, what i wrote above is just right. To your convenience you tried for quite long to make the situation seem normal, while it was not. If i have full control over the fight while the enemy must "predict" and nail fraction-of-a-second opportunities to just land a rotation, it's still not balance. It's skill overcoming the lack of balance.
Current situation is almost balanced. Just need to fix one-shotting moves and tenacity-ignoring stuff in PvP. Which is quite logical.
The validity of this statement has come into question.
While I agree a few select Artifacts and Artifact Equips need to be changed, the nerf that TR received was misplaced.
You can argue our survivability was just fine in the past, however, it was the damage that was the problem. TRs never wanted to be able to 1v5 an entire team with a single Daily and come out unscathed, we just wanted to be ****ing useful.
So now we have a few boosts to survivability and oh, wait, this new nerf that technically defies the point of stealth. Meanwhile we're still seeing ridiculous amounts of crying on the forums and in game. The vast majority of this crying isn't "This invisible guy who was visible dodges 700 times and got away from me", it's more like "This invisible guy one-shotted me in stealth".
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the problem is the damage. The Disheartening Strike nerf was needed, the stealth nerf wasn't.
Then again, the devs themselves said they have no intention of changing TR damage so we'll just wait until TR becomes a nuclear warhead with no damage application.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Everyone is whining about so many things about TR they blame it to dodge, deflect severity, to high damage, to stealth, to daze, to piercing damage (did I forget something?). But in GWF case all I can say is it needs some love its the worst class now.
Wow. When I log in you are off my friends list again. Your comments in this thread are awkward and elitist as hell.
You type like a 9 year old kid who dropped his ice cream on the ground.
And we both know that you aren't very good so I have no idea where this elitism is coming from.
Module 4 TR got top-notch survivability. We know that cause they were in premades exactly for that reason: go cap enemy node. Permastealth/ semi-permastealth specifically, was the PvP build.
Damage was quite low, but mix of tools overall made them strong point-holders. It's a fact. Other classes needed lots of skills to catch a good TR.
Current TR got the DPS and the tools to proactively survive the 2s out of stealth. It's just like for any other class: you attack, then you are exposed and need to dodge or tank some damage.
The concept is just right. Devs already stated if something will require more balance, things will be changed.
Only things to still fix are 1-shot moves/ tenacity-ignoring stuff. DPS is one thing, 1shots are another thing. And tenacity must be there always in PvP.