And that's how it should be. Legendary dungeons= legendary loot. Make dungeons so difficult only the most skilled, most epically geared parties can clear them. Elite players need elite content and lesser geared players need something to strive for. Anything less is mediocrity. Why bother aiming for that?
Insultingly easy content with RNG gated rewards is NOT a solution.
That's the point. MMO progression in PvE has two prongs.. gear progression and content progression. The whole point of the better gear is to let you get through harder dungeons.. Neverwinter has cheerfully spammed us with gear inflation, but has failed to deliver any content to actually require that gear.
At the time of writing, dungeons are laughably easy, and also more or less pointless for many people- so spamming Tiamat is the main upgrade path. It's not very interesting, nor challenging.
There needs to be something for PvErs to do, some progression. So what if new/bad players wouldn't be able to do them at first? That's their progression, becoming competent, improving their gear, calibrating their chops against harder fights. It's the case in other MMOs, and has been proven that the "everyone's a winner" lowest common denominator approach means that the game becomes stale much quicker, if the only chance of failure is due to bugs.
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clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
edited December 2014
The cleric phase in Tiamat should be something they should look to as an inspiration to make truly hard dungeons. In gaming, escort missions are usually hard (and yes I know sometimes annoying), so instead of just adding harder hitting monsters add challenges that require true teamwork, where good healing, crowd control, threat generation and high dps are all required to succeed. A timer can also make it harder because this will also require higher dps. Finally, I don't think Cryptic can achieve this, but having random dungeons generated with instant death traps also would make them legendary, so instead of sprinting through everything you will have to cautious and afraid of what lies ahead.
The cleric phase in Tiamat should be something they should look to as an inspiration to make truly hard dungeons. In gaming, escort missions are usually hard (and yes I know sometimes annoying), so instead of just adding harder hitting monsters add challenges that require true teamwork, where good healing, crowd control, threat generation and high dps are all required to succeed. A timer can also make it harder because this will also require higher dps. Finally, I don't think Cryptic can achieve this, but having random dungeons generated with instant death traps also would make them legendary, so instead of sprinting through everything you will have to cautious and afraid of what lies ahead.
Oh god no. Protect the stupid, (my name for escort missions) are some of the worst parts of any video game ever made. There is no fate too gruesome for the person that first invented the mechanic.
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onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
edited December 2014
escort missions are lame, but Tiamat's Protect the Clerics isn't an escort mission.
Tiamat is way too easy, and PUGS + RNG gated rewards are used to compensate, but the fight mechanics are excellent. It's an amazing encounter with a lot going on. I simply wish it were MUCH, MUCH harder. Only the best of the best should successfully defeat a goddess.
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urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
Right now PvE requirements to enter instances like Tiamat are too low so I'm all in for some challenge. Drake Pens is a nice example of some more difficult content.
Average gearscore of players is higher in every mod so we should get sth to do with that gearscore in PvE.
mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
edited December 2014
If they make it cheezy like the "one-hit-wonders" in ESOT and ELOL then im not for it. I prefer tankier mobs as you progress thru some of these older awesome dungeons. The drops should include many Refinement Point Stones that can be picked up individually.
I would just love to go thru a tougher version of Idris or Tower etc.
Not with those items for drops. All that does is HAMSTER off the people that have paid and farmed for those items. Turn around and they are free drops now? Absolutely not. The gear score is too low for most dungeons/skirmishes already IMO. Either players have REALLY bad stats, or they can't play their toons - like 90% of the time. I agree there should be more dungeons and skirmishes to present more of a challenge for higher end game level toons though.
I like the idea of harder versions of dungeons that we already have, but I feel some people are missing the point as to why they should exist. It's not to gear up or make AD (only). It's to get away from the fact that right now, with tiamat, 90% of the content of this game has become obsolete. Those of us who enjoy the t1, t2, t2.5 dungeons can't as easily find parties anymore, and also they are becoming too easy, so people just sprint through them, which isn't enjoyable at all.
Comments
That's the point. MMO progression in PvE has two prongs.. gear progression and content progression. The whole point of the better gear is to let you get through harder dungeons.. Neverwinter has cheerfully spammed us with gear inflation, but has failed to deliver any content to actually require that gear.
At the time of writing, dungeons are laughably easy, and also more or less pointless for many people- so spamming Tiamat is the main upgrade path. It's not very interesting, nor challenging.
There needs to be something for PvErs to do, some progression. So what if new/bad players wouldn't be able to do them at first? That's their progression, becoming competent, improving their gear, calibrating their chops against harder fights. It's the case in other MMOs, and has been proven that the "everyone's a winner" lowest common denominator approach means that the game becomes stale much quicker, if the only chance of failure is due to bugs.
Oh god no. Protect the stupid, (my name for escort missions) are some of the worst parts of any video game ever made. There is no fate too gruesome for the person that first invented the mechanic.
Tiamat is way too easy, and PUGS + RNG gated rewards are used to compensate, but the fight mechanics are excellent. It's an amazing encounter with a lot going on. I simply wish it were MUCH, MUCH harder. Only the best of the best should successfully defeat a goddess.
Indeed. I have run all the epic dungeons at least 50 times each. I have little interest in doing another xxxxxxhundred runs in the exact same places.
New legendary dungeons are ok, though.
Average gearscore of players is higher in every mod so we should get sth to do with that gearscore in PvE.
I would just love to go thru a tougher version of Idris or Tower etc.
ńèЪùŁâ 70 acDC
Nubula, Scrubula, Nutella, Ebola
^ so much this.