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Helping the PVP community improve.
ltgamesttv
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
Everyone has most likely experienced it at one time or other. You solo or duo Q into PVP. You look around at your teammates and you don't recognize any handles or guilds. You run to mid to contest at the beginning and your entire team is at home base. After you are quickly destroyed at mid your team starts running around the map, fighting between nodes you don't own, or running across the bridge, or throwing daggers from pillars. Thus is PUG PVP.
I've often wondered to myself how to improve this scenario so that solo Qing would be less frustrating. I thought "well I could write a synopsis of PVP game play and basic strategy", however, if instructions are too wordy people with short attention spans (like myself) may not take the time to read it. So here's what I think may be a better solution.
When you hit level 60 you get a quest that sends you to the trade of blades back to the domination battle master. He gives you a domination quest that is mandatory before Qing into PVP. This quest is a very basic run through similar to the run through you get at the beginning of the game introducing you to your encounters, at wills, dailies... etc. You do this at level 60 so that people who are going to be doing their dailies for the AD are made to understand what to do when they get into a round of PVP.
This introductory quest would go through different scenarios with NPC's capping nodes and how best to win a game, most importantly showing that contesting nodes is essential for a PVP win. It would describe the capping/contesting system, points system, and maybe, if the devs were feeling frisky, could describe rotations and how to try and rotate on your "team" to counter as well.
The point of all of this would be to improve the basic understanding of the game for new players so that it may decrease, at least to some degree the frustration in trying to explain to people to fight on the node.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
I've often wondered to myself how to improve this scenario so that solo Qing would be less frustrating. I thought "well I could write a synopsis of PVP game play and basic strategy", however, if instructions are too wordy people with short attention spans (like myself) may not take the time to read it. So here's what I think may be a better solution.
When you hit level 60 you get a quest that sends you to the trade of blades back to the domination battle master. He gives you a domination quest that is mandatory before Qing into PVP. This quest is a very basic run through similar to the run through you get at the beginning of the game introducing you to your encounters, at wills, dailies... etc. You do this at level 60 so that people who are going to be doing their dailies for the AD are made to understand what to do when they get into a round of PVP.
This introductory quest would go through different scenarios with NPC's capping nodes and how best to win a game, most importantly showing that contesting nodes is essential for a PVP win. It would describe the capping/contesting system, points system, and maybe, if the devs were feeling frisky, could describe rotations and how to try and rotate on your "team" to counter as well.
The point of all of this would be to improve the basic understanding of the game for new players so that it may decrease, at least to some degree the frustration in trying to explain to people to fight on the node.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
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You basically just have to add one point per second contesting nodes, maybe even adjust for the numbers of own/opposing players on given node. Pugs will always capture and try to kill first, tutorial or not.
And you know what would also help PVP? If you would kick all the exploiting ****heads out of your guild... but wait, your leader is one as well you say? That's a pity!
I'm not saying this is a fix, to be a complete fix it needs to be in combination with other factors. I'm saying some people don't even understand the concept, I know this to be fact because I've been told so by new players on my teams before.
I also will not be deterred by your constant barrage of inflammatory speech on my every post, this is about helping PVP, if you'd prefer not to try and better PVP then perhaps my posts aren't the place for you.
True, and I like that idea for sure, but how many times do people pay attention to what's on the loading screen tbh? I think this would work well in conjunction, however, as another reminder of what best works in PVP matches.
Thanks for your reply.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?657791-Domination-Suggestion
But i promise you man, there is no point suggestion **** for pvp. It has all been suggested before but we are still stuck with the same 2 pvp maps, the same mode and everything. i pretty much gave up.
Yeah, whatever. I'm not really confident but there's still hope Cryptic/PWE will deal with you people sooner or later. Until then, you deserve the crappy balance and every PUG you can get. Have fun!
I hope you have a wonderful day sir, filled with lots of fun PVP, good loot and generally anything else that can improve your salty demeanor.
Thanks for your reply.
Call me a dreamer, but I try to post anything I think may be helpful. Many of the ideas are a combination of what I've talked with others about. I don't typically post solutions I think would be overly demanding, I try to post possible solutions or at least work arounds that may enhance the gaming environment. I just would like to see the game continue to grow and I like to be part of trying to come up with creative answers to problems that become evident in the game.
Thanks for your reply.
This. I cant count the times I told ppl to cap/ defend bases, while I fought 1v2 or 3 on the enemy base and the answer was basicly 'shut up, I got more points. I am better, I know better'.
As long as you can ride to a node in the last second and get the points for capping it, there will be PuGs ignoring two bases capped by the enemy, to get their 300 pts.
I agree that there should be changes to the point awarding system. I may post to that effect later, however for the purpose of this post I'm trying to help new players actually grasp the idea of how to win. There will always be "point grabbers" but I'm specifically addressing those players who don't even understand the basics of the game. This would help those players by introducing them in a non threatening voiced over environment which easily explains the fundamentals of domination PVP.
Thanks for your reply.
Of course, and let me add rightfully so. If you invest two hours of your time digging into the system you sure figure it out, but I bet the vast majority of players entering Domination are there for the occasional daily and don't really care.
And that's where the devs have to do a better job guiding them through. Alongside a solo queue for the leaderboard the adjustment in the score system is another obvious change that would make PVP so much better. Although I can't really estimate how much work would have to be put into it, they basically said PVP population is too low overall and it would seem that this is the real reason little has happened over months.
I wouldn't hold my breath. But in the end Mod 3 came with a whole bunch of PVP stuff, maybe Mod 6 as well?
I get your idea, but what you are suggesting has the problem of instant gratification.
If you educate ppl how to play, they could win the match and get more glory in the end. If you play like a selfcentered ****, you get points for every kill/ cap, instant gratification.
There has been a test, where children have been given a chocolate. They have been told, that they will get a second one, if they dont eat the first one for half an hour. Guess who ate the chocolate? The same mechanic will be seen in PvP, if they dont change the reward system, even if you tell them how it is done right.
I think you guys are reading a bit too much into this. This is meant to be a tutorial for new players. The few players I've taken the time to explain this simple information to are usually grateful and try to capture nodes and contest the other nodes by at least fighting on them. If you explain the game to them they can do as they like however it is not a fix as I stated before. It is meant to aid, not fix. Let me reiterate.. I don't think this simple idea will "fix" pug PVP.
That aside I think that trying to explain this during a match is difficult at the least or nigh impossible at the worst. A tutorial would help by explaining the basics. It's cost in terms of time is very little and it can't hurt anything and may save some time in trying to tell your pugs "please just stand on the node".
Thanks for your reply.
Ofc the ppl you educated became better players. Thing is, they were willing to listen. I played a lot of PuG, once I asked 'dont you know how to play PvP? Should I tell you?' and one of my teammates answered 'no, plz tell me, I am new to this game'. I ended up telling him basic strategy and the strategy for his class for 1/2 hour. He even asked for tips for his mate, playing another class. The ones asking/ listening to advice are interested, sadly most ppl are not.
You mean win, or gaining points?
because people reading forums are already ten steps ahead.
Eh not really.
I think the forums are the first place a lot of confused players would go to in order to get help and advice.
If there were a training video stickied at the top of the PVP forum saying "READ THIS BEFORE ASKING QUESTIONS", I think it would ameliorate a lot of problems.
Besides, this isn't the first time this idea has been suggested. Cryptic hasn't yet acted on it, and IMO probably never will. So if Cryptic won't do it, it's up to the players to do it.
for me solo Q should be solo Q, not even duo-Q should be allowed
yes
1.A tutorial area. where you get to practice but don't actually affect your rating.
2. an easy to find manual,with an easy to find symbol. IN champions the help manual is esc> help> game manual.
2b. write it up as a proper point by point guide and see if you can get it stickied at the top of the forum.Advertise it, ingame.
3. worst case, remove pts for taking part. all it does is encourage lack of team work and afks. except that penalises the people who are trying.
3b. start keeping track of those kicking teammates to avoid a leaver penalty. The amount of complaints in zone recently about that is ridiculous. It gives the rest a bad name.
4. get your own chat channel. Champions has one for PvP. They aren't hard to create. You can give people instructions direct about
4b. Make sure moderators stomp hard on any whiners, bad losers and worse winners. The whiners in Icewind dale are not helping the view of Pvp people. Anyone who goes into an open world Pvp area and then complains about getting mass attacked needs a quick smack around the head. It's OPEN world, not a duel.
5. yes I know they are all out of order. The any level gear is stupid. it needs to be at least sorted into 2k bands. except how do you stop people queuing in one set of gear then swapping.
Thanks for the feedback!