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A better "fix" to permastealth... (be polite)
wyndrarch
Member Posts: 147
...if permastealth is really the problem that needs fixing. But this topic isn't to discuss what fixes the TR does or doesn't need in order to balance PvP. Let's assume for this topic that permastealth is the horrible end-all jagged shard of glass that is disrupting PvP.
Based off this assumption, I'm interested to hear what tweaks could be made to help combat permastealth without nerfing regular stealth (remembering that the devs themselves have stated that they have no desire to remove permastealth, only to make it more difficult).
I have a suggestion, although I have no idea if it's possible within the limits of the Neverwinter Engine:
Have a stealth bar's total capacity diminish over time, in addition to regular stealth depletion.
You could even call it PvP stealth depression. I can think of two ways to implement this, either:
a) Each full refill to a stealth bar (after the first refill) while in stealth gives diminished returns. First refill is 100%, then 85%, then 70%, then 55%, finally capping at 40%.
Obviously these numbers aren't set in stone, it could just as easily be 100%, 80%, 60%, 40%.
b) Have the total capacity of the stealth bar diminish over time, similar to how stealth does already, but at a much slower rate. Again, this should be only to a certain capping point, perhaps 40% as I suggested above.
In either case, the stealth bar should return to normal upon exiting stealth, for any reason. This way permastealth is still technically possible, but very difficult to achieve without specific builds, powers, and stats (basically how it used to be). "A" is my preferred option, just because it's easier for the TR to keep track of.
Alternatively, the other day rayrdan suggested going with the changes currently proposed by the devs (dealing damage reveals you) but having the effects not take place until a TR has been in stealth for at least 10 seconds. I like this idea too, but as a non-perma user I have a bias to like anything that doesn't affect me.
Do any of you have alternate ideas?
Based off this assumption, I'm interested to hear what tweaks could be made to help combat permastealth without nerfing regular stealth (remembering that the devs themselves have stated that they have no desire to remove permastealth, only to make it more difficult).
I have a suggestion, although I have no idea if it's possible within the limits of the Neverwinter Engine:
Have a stealth bar's total capacity diminish over time, in addition to regular stealth depletion.
You could even call it PvP stealth depression. I can think of two ways to implement this, either:
a) Each full refill to a stealth bar (after the first refill) while in stealth gives diminished returns. First refill is 100%, then 85%, then 70%, then 55%, finally capping at 40%.
Obviously these numbers aren't set in stone, it could just as easily be 100%, 80%, 60%, 40%.
b) Have the total capacity of the stealth bar diminish over time, similar to how stealth does already, but at a much slower rate. Again, this should be only to a certain capping point, perhaps 40% as I suggested above.
In either case, the stealth bar should return to normal upon exiting stealth, for any reason. This way permastealth is still technically possible, but very difficult to achieve without specific builds, powers, and stats (basically how it used to be). "A" is my preferred option, just because it's easier for the TR to keep track of.
Alternatively, the other day rayrdan suggested going with the changes currently proposed by the devs (dealing damage reveals you) but having the effects not take place until a TR has been in stealth for at least 10 seconds. I like this idea too, but as a non-perma user I have a bias to like anything that doesn't affect me.
Do any of you have alternate ideas?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Man, these suggestions get better every day.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
You could just simply get rid of BNS or SS - that would make any perma harder regardless of tree
I'm not a fan of stealth being nerfed with nothing in return either, but if it absolutely must happen, I'd rather suggest alternatives that are less devastating than the current proposed change. I'm sure you're not happy with the proposed fix. Neither am I, but I'm not about to just do nothing while it happens.
Hello Matt.
That's a good point, although I wonder if that might cripple permastealth too much as those powers are undoubtedly the foundation of it (or at least were). Also, I don't know if the devs would want to go in the direction of completely removing 1 or 2 powers - not that I'm saying they couldn't either.
I haven't been playing as long as others though; is this something that has happened in previous modules? The removal or total change to the nature of a power?
So, when we're revealed in stealth we essentially gain Unstoppable? I agree that it wouldn't make us anymore OP since we already have 100% crit strike from stealth, but I'm worried that might spur on complaints about "super fast invulnerable rouges".
So you want a certain class's entire defense system to rely on random chance?
Woohoo, good stuff.
I suggest we deploy the same principles to ALL classes, instead of this bigoted dounle standard that would leash only the TRs.
Unstoppable will 'check' against the attacker's WIS? INT? whatever stat, and if it fails, will fail to protect from CC
Any abilities CW/SW/DCs use, since they are spells, will 'check' for concentration when under attack. If fails, the spell/ability fails. This is an actual mechanic that exists in real D&D!
The HR will 'check' EVERY ability that requires to fire with a bow, against the target's DEX stat. If fails, attacks miss
The GF block is now no longer manual, it's auto, and it 'checks' to see if blocks succeed or fail
Such lovely biases and double standards. :rolleyes:
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
And, by the way; I play my TR everyday. Don't be so quick to assume bias
I see your point but the problem with that is if you don't focus on stealth then the whole mechanic will become totally useless which doesn't seem very fair compared to the other class mechanics.
I started a thread on this here, if anyone's into that sorta thing:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?811601-Difficulty-Checks-(Warning-wall-of-text)&p=9690481#post9690481
That's kind of the point.
Why do you think TRs have been in such a bad state before? Because the forums were full of nothing but complaining beforehand. In the old days, it was a problem of "omg this invisible guy deft strike'd behind me and dazed me and killed me".
Several dozen nerfs later, not only were TRs, for the most part, reduced to node campers and completely disregarded in most PvE, they were also one of the most scarce classes. Which made the most impact, a 15k TR or a 15k CW? The CW not only cleared nodes faster but held his own without the need for a 20 minute 1v1.
Now, TRs get a damage boost and one tree is focused to maintaining stealth. What's everyone's problem? The damage TRs can do. What solution do they come up with? Nerf stealth.
I can promise you this, 2 second sight or not, the dedicated TRs who actually know how to use the class are still going to wreck everything because our damage was ****ing untouched.
Nerfing stealth is nothing more than a cheap cop-out to the current problem. Anyone who doesn't understand that invalidates their own claims. Seriously, go post in GD.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
That was completely unnecessary and uncalled for.
Perhaps you didn't read:
I'm quite aware that damage is the issue.
Permastealth, while being its own issue, is not the cause of this new storm of lethality that has arisen from mod5, or the cacophonous uproar of complaints. It's the ludicrous damage. It was quite obvious in fact, because despite changing very little of my equipment I was suddenly almost one-hitting anyone in my GS range with an LB (and I'm on a lesser vorpal no less).
Where we differ is as follows:
1. I make no assumptions about your intelligence or experience based on statements you make that aren't 100% synergistic with mine.
2. When an OP asks me not to debate a specific issue or to work on the basis of particular assumptions, I oblige them instead of exacerbating the situation.
3. When I hear about a raging forest fire, I do my best to prepare in order to lessen the collateral. I don't just yell at it.
You wanna debate about TR damage being too high? That's perfectly fine as I don't disagree with you. But not here, in this topic, which has nothing to do with TR damage.
Go ahead.
That's the difference between us: I'm fighting the ****ty "fix", you're making threads about what-ifs.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Again with the assumptions, because this is obviously the only topic I've ever posted in and the only topic I've ever talked about, ever. >.<
1. There are countless topics devoted to TR damage being too high; go post in one of those instead of harassing this one for not being about your chosen point of interest.
2. You're fighting the wrong person.
Ok .
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
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