onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
edited December 2014
Yes zerg still requires organization, but it requires the least amount of organization out of the strategies I have seen which is very important when playing with strangers.
It would have been nice if they actually gave us a raid party interface. But I think everyone saw it coming when no new interface was introduce in the preview shard. This game only ever had one dungeon that actually required organization(VT last boss, until you had very high dps where you don't even care about caskets at that point).
When I first heard about Tiamat encounter, I actually thought it was going to be a real raid which brought me back to my WoW days. Sadly once it came out, I realize it was just another WoD map with a shorter dragon rotation. It would have been great if they were planning to pursue raid route to make guilds/parties/organization meaningful. However, based on what they have, it is aimed more towards casual gaming, so an actual raid would be out of the question.
They should have first started out with 10 man dungeons before going to 25, but that's a whole other topic.
Overall though, I was surprise how well people were willing to adapt to the strategies, from the initial 5x5 to the all on 1 target. It was quite surprising how well some instances people were willing to follow direction on a 5x5. Even now I am glad most people are willing to listen and follow instructions to spread out.
In each instance, you will have a few people that will screw the instance by just standing doing nothing, regardless of which strategy you use. This is the reason I prefer the zerg method as 1-3 people not doing anything is less impacting in this method than in a 5x5. I am actually scared if they ever let us have a 25man raid party queue. I think we can kill tiamat in the first round. Closest I've come to doing it is 2nd phase 1 minute with strangers, so I think if they ever give us a 25 raid party, it would be way too easy and might even be able to get multiple favors within one event.
I am actually scared if they ever let us have a 25man raid party queue. I think we can kill tiamat in the first round. Closest I've come to doing it is 2nd phase 1 minute with strangers, so I think if they ever give us a 25 raid party, it would be way too easy and might even be able to get multiple favors within one event.
Im sure a 25 high gs group can down tiamat in one round. I personally have been able to do down my head in 5 man group of high gs people (didnt down it coz u go help when its low on health but it would have gone down in time). Another thing is getting that beast group together with all the different time zones etc.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited December 2014
Had friends kill her in one round - but they said all the heads came back. They won't let you because... cryptic
Im sure a 25 high gs group can down tiamat in one round. I personally have been able to do down my head in 5 man group of high gs people (didnt down it coz u go help when its low on health but it would have gone down in time). Another thing is getting that beast group together with all the different time zones etc.
Dont need to be 25 k gs to do that - but a good group of only 5 can kill dragon head in the first round yes - been in one that was forced to find another head to fight with 20 seconds left of first round.
Yes zerg still requires organization, but it requires the least amount of organization out of the strategies I have seen which is very important when playing with strangers.
.
The thing is it takes the exact same amount organization as tactical - even more one might say. If no one or to few have those warding gems people die and clerics struggle to regain health, so basically those with the gems has to be on location as the first.. But zergers dont bother much about making parties or making sure there is a balanced gems division. Thus so many fails.
Zerg is for those that just want to to go zombie-style hack and slash through the game without optimizing their own personal dps proces or spend a few seconds on what is trivial basic teamwork. It works when there is enough zombie-smash-buttons dps present. But not when that is not the case and people actually need well co-ordinated gem activation to protect them. Dead people dont do dps.
To each his own - but please coordinate your zergs, so you enter tiamats temple when we others dont. Thank you.
Dont need to be 25 k gs to do that - but a good group of only 5 can kill dragon head in the first round yes - been in one that was forced to find another head to fight with 20 seconds left of first round.
I didnt mean 25k gs, i meant 25 people with high gs XD. I personally am a little over 20k.
The thing is it takes the exact same amount organization as tactical - even more one might say. If no one or to few have those warding gems people die and clerics struggle to regain health, so basically those with the gems has to be on location as the first.. But zergers dont bother much about making parties or making sure there is a balanced gems division. Thus so many fails.
Zerg is for those that just want to to go zombie-style hack and slash through the game without optimizing their own personal dps proces or spend a few seconds on what is trivial basic teamwork. It works when there is enough zombie-smash-buttons dps present. But not when that is not the case and people actually need well co-ordinated gem activation to protect them. Dead people dont do dps.
To each his own - but please coordinate your zergs, so you enter tiamats temple when we others dont. Thank you.
It's all about efficiency. As a raid leader, focus dps is the best method unless you have to dps things separately. If the other dragon head's breath actually posed a threat other than green or blue, then yes, gem division is required. However based on current game. Only ones you need is green and blue, green especially as that is the one that kills the most.
I just find it funny when people think that zerg is inferior because it requires less coordination. All raid leaders will pick the most efficient and easiest strategy to learn to reduce the amount of potential error that can occur. You'd be surprised how coordinated people are without any or little direction. I always prefer whatever is the most efficient, if 5x5 or split is more efficient, I would push to that. But based on theory crafting and experience, i find they are not. I really would have want to try split, but too many people are not familiar with it and would require more coordination than single target focus. But as you said, to each their own.
I find this Tiamat instance more of a social experiment.
It's all about efficiency. As a raid leader, focus dps is the best method unless you have to dps things separately. If the other dragon head's breath actually posed a threat other than green or blue, then yes, gem division is required. However based on current game. Only ones you need is green and blue, green especially as that is the one that kills the most.
I just find it funny when people think that zerg is inferior because it requires less coordination. All raid leaders will pick the most efficient and easiest strategy to learn to reduce the amount of potential error that can occur. You'd be surprised how coordinated people are without any or little direction. I always prefer whatever is the most efficient, if 5x5 or split is more efficient, I would push to that. But based on theory crafting and experience, i find they are not. I really would have want to try split, but too many people are not familiar with it and would require more coordination than single target focus. But as you said, to each their own.
I find this Tiamat instance more of a social experiment.
Well since zerg is becoming more popular I have done like 4 zergs today with only one success, and that is why I think its inferior. I did one tactical with one success.
Focused dps is only good when people stand buffed and slam en masse. But it has drawbacks:
Lag so bad that your keys dont respond and triggers the encounters you want to cast.
A general mode Laissez fair involving numbers protecting middle cleric and numbers of gems available and when to use them. People are dying as flies as a result around the middle cleric. And healer is getting spammed by mobs.
People spending half the time when dragonheads are up unable to mount because some mob is close - so spend half the time sprinting - teleporting - walking etc. And not killing any dragon - it has to be really good buffs to make up for that - but oh hey those who buff will still be buffing where they stand in 5 x 5 groups. And they will be doing it all the time without walking.
That is not about efficiency - that is a pure waste of time and the very reason why they often fail.
When some of us where able to make tactical coordinated Tiamat runs without it getting ****ed up by zerkers and im to lazy to grab a gem and find a party people. I had a streak of 15 successes - without one zerg involved.
I am happy to call zerg inferior because it is - even the best dps zergs I joined did not finish faster than some of the tactical ones I been in though a lot of them were with half strong dps and half weak dps that needed help by the strong teams.
The rate of success in tactical 5 x 5 is simply higher.
Less lag - less walking cause you cant mount - less dying because most people use their gems wisely and have them in the first place.
I just see less Linus coming my way now that zerk has become so popular. And sure I could compensate for that by using the offers of getting special 18 k+ zerg entry timers via pm.
But I see no reason for that cause I seen tactical work though half the crowd are not even 15 k - have two strong teams among the 5 x 5 in a tactical and its way enough. With less lag - fewer deaths - less wasted time.
I strongly suggest that the zerg crowd enter at any point in the first 2-3 minutes of tiamat entry and leave the last two minutes for the tactical people. Then we each can have it the way we like.
You get add aggro so you can't mount up and ride to the next head very fast.
You get people who don't use their gems, don't know how to use their gems, or don't even pick up their gems. This happens less frequently with a 5x5 tactical approach because everybody on the 5-person team KNOWS that they will HAVE to use the gem to protect themselves and their teammates, while in a zerg, there is no accountability or responsibility for having to use a gem to help others.
As opposed to doing it tactically, where if one particular team happens to be a bunch of screw-ups, it only affects at most 5 players, and not 20+ players.
I did two Tiamat raids today - one was a tactical 5x5 raid, one was a zerg.
The tactical raid went beautifully. My team was on red, and we managed to get the red head down to 50% or so in the first round, while the white and blue heads were barely only 10% down. So in the second round, our team switched over to the white head and helped to get that down to about 30% by the end of the second round, and other strong teams helped out on the blue head. We finished off Tiamat with about 3 minutes to spare in the third round.
The zerg raid was a disaster. People were not defending their clerics very well at all so it took a long time to even get to the first phase. Half of the raid got frozen when the white gem players misused their gems. And there was add aggro all over the place, I could not mount up to get anywhere during those precious 2 minutes of fighting Tiamat. And of course at the end when it was clear we weren't going to win, the "zerg leaders" were blaming 2 or 3 people who had gear scores below 12k. That was just mean to use these poor players as scapegoats. No, it was because the entire idea is stupid and this particular one was poorly organized to boot.
5/5 zerg runs today:) Two of them were finished in the 2 rounds. I feel like Tiamat is easier than eLOL now:)
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onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
edited December 2014
You guys must be getting bad instances that no matter what strategy you choose, it would have failed.
I have done 12 instances with zerg only in the last two days...all 12 succeeded. I guess I am just lucky.
You guys must be getting bad instances that no matter what strategy you choose, it would have failed.
I have done 12 instances with zerg only in the last two days...all 12 succeeded. I guess I am just lucky.
I don't see how this is even possible.
The add aggro alone makes it very difficult to travel from head to head in a short time frame.
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onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
edited December 2014
oh fyi, can kill in phase 1 and still get favor. can potential get 2 favors per tiamat.
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onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
The add aggro alone makes it very difficult to travel from head to head in a short time frame.
You can join the 2:35 group and give it a try. I have not had any problem with adds in any of the instances i've been in. the "zerg" strategy is just focus fire strategy that has been used in every single raid. If you ever played WoW and did MC, these dragon heads are like the core hounds except instead of 10 secs, you got 2 minutes, easy peasy.
1 person dying in a 5x5 is a 20% loss in dps for one head. 1 person dying in a 25 is 4% dps. Risk of too many people dying is in the transition to green, which it only takes a couple of players to light the path. Blue is dangerous as well, but as dangerous as the green one which is why i always grab it. In all my zerg instances there has still been a couple of people that do not do anything they are either at the priests or just standing somewhere staring that the ground(my habit of always checking the map/group).
Yet, been able to down it because we are less dependent on a couple of players. Of course if 5 or more were idle, then it would be a problem, but that would be the same for any strategy.
The add aggro alone makes it very difficult to travel from head to head in a short time frame.
There are certain instances where a lot of the fully geared PVP community forms up in so that there will be as little random people as possible. With that many 20k GS players who know how to maximize their skills, I have seen that it is possible. On regular random queues though, I tend to agree that fully zerging is not going to work (although every random queue is getting better and better).
Actually the zerg strategy is more forgiving and less chance for error. The hardest part is the summoners. But I have seen people have learned to spread out more which is good, at last for the ones I've been into. Same for the cleric phase. If too many on one place, i normally say something in the /say chat that only 5 need to be at the sides and more effort needed on the center.
The reason zerg strategy is better is that it is less forgiving for when you have instances with lower gear/skill players. On a 5x5, heads do not have enough dps and usually not enough debuff/buffs. In a zerg, as long as a couple of people have the buffs/debuffs, it will go much faster. On a 5x5, losing a single char on a head is a much higher % dps loss than losing one person in a zerg.
The zerg strategy allows you to use this strategy with low gear/skill players and with high gear/skill players. While the 5x5 method may work with higher gear/skill players, it will not work effectively for lower dps players as you have to expect each group to have 1~2 debuffers to increase dps.
The important thing for me is to always get the green gem. That is the most dangerous dragon. The other ones can be easily dodge-able, although the blue one is dangerous if you miss dodge.
This is not how tactical works. You do not simply attack your color until it is dead. Strong parties help weaker parties. Typicaly I go blue. If I have a strong party and we have our head around 50% in phase one I look at red and white (usually white for some reason, maybe the CC?). If White is low (ie weaker party) we break to that head first in second round. There are a few seconds between dragon one and cleric 2 to communicate this. Since Tactic players are all about coordination I am usually the second to suggest it in /party So blue will support white second round if they are lagging in DPS until it is fairly low then hop back to blue and get it 10-20%. 3rd round nuke blue and finish white which is usually fairly easy because all of the strong parties have already killed their heads and moved to mopping up those that fell behind.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2014
heh this thread is kind of funny.
After the first few hours the first day when every one figured out how to do Tiamat (people stopped zerging and started using tactics, ie 5x5 groups) pretty much every hardcore pve type has farmed tiamat like mad, and virtually every instance succeed when it had atleast 5 players with a clue in it. Personally I've gone 50/50 successes using tactics and now have OHs on all my characters.
Thing is, so has pretty much every other heavy pve player, and there's a bit of burnout and slow down of the "rush" to farm tiamat. The more hardcore PVE types have pretty much gotten their linu's knocked out and are taking a break, and when they are farming tiamat they've switched to zoning in at very particular times to ensure they are grouped with guild/friends/like minded players.
So now the not so hardcore players are finding themselves as the heavy hitters where before they were pretty much being carried, and they started to fail tiamat again. Within the last 2 days the "Zerg" has come back with a vengeance simply because the people capable of guaranteeing tiamat victory aren't running tiamat as much and the people who were being carried are now trying to lead.
Zerging is inferior to tactics especially in an unknown group, simply due to lag bugs. But it's also the only way certain groups can possibly win, if they happen to get lucky and a: not have lagbugs and b: also have enough skilled DPS to compensate for their lack of skill.
Zerg Pros: Increased buff/debuff potential (to a certain extent, not all buff/debuffs stack). Requires less people to use brain and use gems appropriately.
Zerg Cons: Lag bugs caused by certain abilities reduce entire instance DPS to 0. When half the zerg wipes due to not using gems it's equivalent to 2-3 heads all wiping, in terms of dps lost. DPS lost due to travel time between heads. more risk of attention diversion from dragging adds from center to next head/etc. Lack of coordination/communication causes cleric phase to last 5 minutes (instead of 60 seconds) resulting in only 3 rounds of tiamat heads, which is what forces zerglings in to the situation where they have to zerg in order to win.
The problem is not the head phase, it has never been head the phase. It's not even a problem of DPS. You can use whatever method you want to kill the heads, zerg, splerg, clerg, merg, HAMSTER, who cares.
The real problem, the only "challenge" to tiamat is herding cats, trying to get everyone to be where they need to be. That is most pronounced in the Cleric phase. 14 of your 20 minutes is being wasted in the "Defend the clerics" phase, which to the clueless zerg types, is spent standing on the clerics and watching their health deplete instead of killing demons on their spawn points.
This is why you only get 3 rounds of killing heads which is why your paltry dps must use the zerg method. If you weren't wasting time in the cleric phase you would easily have 5 or more rounds vs the heads. Then, and only then, it's a question of DPS. If you have good DPS then you can finish the heads in 2 or 3 rounds using whatever method you want. Or if you have HAMSTER DPS you finish in 4 or 5 rounds. But you always finish.
This is what you lost when us more hardcore's finished farming tiamat and left you in charge. The knowledge on how to do clerics and why it matters. Defending the Clerics is the only thing that matters, ie the only thing that determines success or failure in tiamat. Do it right and it only lasts 60-90 seconds and you get 5 shots at tiamat head, enough time for even 10k scrubs to finish her off.
Comments
It would have been nice if they actually gave us a raid party interface. But I think everyone saw it coming when no new interface was introduce in the preview shard. This game only ever had one dungeon that actually required organization(VT last boss, until you had very high dps where you don't even care about caskets at that point).
When I first heard about Tiamat encounter, I actually thought it was going to be a real raid which brought me back to my WoW days. Sadly once it came out, I realize it was just another WoD map with a shorter dragon rotation. It would have been great if they were planning to pursue raid route to make guilds/parties/organization meaningful. However, based on what they have, it is aimed more towards casual gaming, so an actual raid would be out of the question.
They should have first started out with 10 man dungeons before going to 25, but that's a whole other topic.
Overall though, I was surprise how well people were willing to adapt to the strategies, from the initial 5x5 to the all on 1 target. It was quite surprising how well some instances people were willing to follow direction on a 5x5. Even now I am glad most people are willing to listen and follow instructions to spread out.
In each instance, you will have a few people that will screw the instance by just standing doing nothing, regardless of which strategy you use. This is the reason I prefer the zerg method as 1-3 people not doing anything is less impacting in this method than in a 5x5. I am actually scared if they ever let us have a 25man raid party queue. I think we can kill tiamat in the first round. Closest I've come to doing it is 2nd phase 1 minute with strangers, so I think if they ever give us a 25 raid party, it would be way too easy and might even be able to get multiple favors within one event.
Im sure a 25 high gs group can down tiamat in one round. I personally have been able to do down my head in 5 man group of high gs people (didnt down it coz u go help when its low on health but it would have gone down in time). Another thing is getting that beast group together with all the different time zones etc.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Dont need to be 25 k gs to do that - but a good group of only 5 can kill dragon head in the first round yes - been in one that was forced to find another head to fight with 20 seconds left of first round.
The thing is it takes the exact same amount organization as tactical - even more one might say. If no one or to few have those warding gems people die and clerics struggle to regain health, so basically those with the gems has to be on location as the first.. But zergers dont bother much about making parties or making sure there is a balanced gems division. Thus so many fails.
Zerg is for those that just want to to go zombie-style hack and slash through the game without optimizing their own personal dps proces or spend a few seconds on what is trivial basic teamwork. It works when there is enough zombie-smash-buttons dps present. But not when that is not the case and people actually need well co-ordinated gem activation to protect them. Dead people dont do dps.
To each his own - but please coordinate your zergs, so you enter tiamats temple when we others dont. Thank you.
I didnt mean 25k gs, i meant 25 people with high gs XD. I personally am a little over 20k.
LOL. thats soooo too much b.S. even for cryptic.
So u cant get 2 runs in the timer then....
well, i prefer ZERG. it's simple yet so effective.
It's all about efficiency. As a raid leader, focus dps is the best method unless you have to dps things separately. If the other dragon head's breath actually posed a threat other than green or blue, then yes, gem division is required. However based on current game. Only ones you need is green and blue, green especially as that is the one that kills the most.
I just find it funny when people think that zerg is inferior because it requires less coordination. All raid leaders will pick the most efficient and easiest strategy to learn to reduce the amount of potential error that can occur. You'd be surprised how coordinated people are without any or little direction. I always prefer whatever is the most efficient, if 5x5 or split is more efficient, I would push to that. But based on theory crafting and experience, i find they are not. I really would have want to try split, but too many people are not familiar with it and would require more coordination than single target focus. But as you said, to each their own.
I find this Tiamat instance more of a social experiment.
Well since zerg is becoming more popular I have done like 4 zergs today with only one success, and that is why I think its inferior. I did one tactical with one success.
Focused dps is only good when people stand buffed and slam en masse. But it has drawbacks:
Lag so bad that your keys dont respond and triggers the encounters you want to cast.
A general mode Laissez fair involving numbers protecting middle cleric and numbers of gems available and when to use them. People are dying as flies as a result around the middle cleric. And healer is getting spammed by mobs.
People spending half the time when dragonheads are up unable to mount because some mob is close - so spend half the time sprinting - teleporting - walking etc. And not killing any dragon - it has to be really good buffs to make up for that - but oh hey those who buff will still be buffing where they stand in 5 x 5 groups. And they will be doing it all the time without walking.
That is not about efficiency - that is a pure waste of time and the very reason why they often fail.
When some of us where able to make tactical coordinated Tiamat runs without it getting ****ed up by zerkers and im to lazy to grab a gem and find a party people. I had a streak of 15 successes - without one zerg involved.
I am happy to call zerg inferior because it is - even the best dps zergs I joined did not finish faster than some of the tactical ones I been in though a lot of them were with half strong dps and half weak dps that needed help by the strong teams.
The rate of success in tactical 5 x 5 is simply higher.
Less lag - less walking cause you cant mount - less dying because most people use their gems wisely and have them in the first place.
I just see less Linus coming my way now that zerk has become so popular. And sure I could compensate for that by using the offers of getting special 18 k+ zerg entry timers via pm.
But I see no reason for that cause I seen tactical work though half the crowd are not even 15 k - have two strong teams among the 5 x 5 in a tactical and its way enough. With less lag - fewer deaths - less wasted time.
I strongly suggest that the zerg crowd enter at any point in the first 2-3 minutes of tiamat entry and leave the last two minutes for the tactical people. Then we each can have it the way we like.
You get add aggro so you can't mount up and ride to the next head very fast.
You get people who don't use their gems, don't know how to use their gems, or don't even pick up their gems. This happens less frequently with a 5x5 tactical approach because everybody on the 5-person team KNOWS that they will HAVE to use the gem to protect themselves and their teammates, while in a zerg, there is no accountability or responsibility for having to use a gem to help others.
As opposed to doing it tactically, where if one particular team happens to be a bunch of screw-ups, it only affects at most 5 players, and not 20+ players.
I did two Tiamat raids today - one was a tactical 5x5 raid, one was a zerg.
The tactical raid went beautifully. My team was on red, and we managed to get the red head down to 50% or so in the first round, while the white and blue heads were barely only 10% down. So in the second round, our team switched over to the white head and helped to get that down to about 30% by the end of the second round, and other strong teams helped out on the blue head. We finished off Tiamat with about 3 minutes to spare in the third round.
The zerg raid was a disaster. People were not defending their clerics very well at all so it took a long time to even get to the first phase. Half of the raid got frozen when the white gem players misused their gems. And there was add aggro all over the place, I could not mount up to get anywhere during those precious 2 minutes of fighting Tiamat. And of course at the end when it was clear we weren't going to win, the "zerg leaders" were blaming 2 or 3 people who had gear scores below 12k. That was just mean to use these poor players as scapegoats. No, it was because the entire idea is stupid and this particular one was poorly organized to boot.
I have done 12 instances with zerg only in the last two days...all 12 succeeded. I guess I am just lucky.
I don't see how this is even possible.
The add aggro alone makes it very difficult to travel from head to head in a short time frame.
You can join the 2:35 group and give it a try. I have not had any problem with adds in any of the instances i've been in. the "zerg" strategy is just focus fire strategy that has been used in every single raid. If you ever played WoW and did MC, these dragon heads are like the core hounds except instead of 10 secs, you got 2 minutes, easy peasy.
1 person dying in a 5x5 is a 20% loss in dps for one head. 1 person dying in a 25 is 4% dps. Risk of too many people dying is in the transition to green, which it only takes a couple of players to light the path. Blue is dangerous as well, but as dangerous as the green one which is why i always grab it. In all my zerg instances there has still been a couple of people that do not do anything they are either at the priests or just standing somewhere staring that the ground(my habit of always checking the map/group).
Yet, been able to down it because we are less dependent on a couple of players. Of course if 5 or more were idle, then it would be a problem, but that would be the same for any strategy.
It may just occur for you. Gwf and SW can sprint to the other head
There are certain instances where a lot of the fully geared PVP community forms up in so that there will be as little random people as possible. With that many 20k GS players who know how to maximize their skills, I have seen that it is possible. On regular random queues though, I tend to agree that fully zerging is not going to work (although every random queue is getting better and better).
This is not how tactical works. You do not simply attack your color until it is dead. Strong parties help weaker parties. Typicaly I go blue. If I have a strong party and we have our head around 50% in phase one I look at red and white (usually white for some reason, maybe the CC?). If White is low (ie weaker party) we break to that head first in second round. There are a few seconds between dragon one and cleric 2 to communicate this. Since Tactic players are all about coordination I am usually the second to suggest it in /party
After the first few hours the first day when every one figured out how to do Tiamat (people stopped zerging and started using tactics, ie 5x5 groups) pretty much every hardcore pve type has farmed tiamat like mad, and virtually every instance succeed when it had atleast 5 players with a clue in it. Personally I've gone 50/50 successes using tactics and now have OHs on all my characters.
Thing is, so has pretty much every other heavy pve player, and there's a bit of burnout and slow down of the "rush" to farm tiamat. The more hardcore PVE types have pretty much gotten their linu's knocked out and are taking a break, and when they are farming tiamat they've switched to zoning in at very particular times to ensure they are grouped with guild/friends/like minded players.
So now the not so hardcore players are finding themselves as the heavy hitters where before they were pretty much being carried, and they started to fail tiamat again. Within the last 2 days the "Zerg" has come back with a vengeance simply because the people capable of guaranteeing tiamat victory aren't running tiamat as much and the people who were being carried are now trying to lead.
Zerging is inferior to tactics especially in an unknown group, simply due to lag bugs. But it's also the only way certain groups can possibly win, if they happen to get lucky and a: not have lagbugs and b: also have enough skilled DPS to compensate for their lack of skill.
Zerg Pros: Increased buff/debuff potential (to a certain extent, not all buff/debuffs stack). Requires less people to use brain and use gems appropriately.
Zerg Cons: Lag bugs caused by certain abilities reduce entire instance DPS to 0. When half the zerg wipes due to not using gems it's equivalent to 2-3 heads all wiping, in terms of dps lost. DPS lost due to travel time between heads. more risk of attention diversion from dragging adds from center to next head/etc. Lack of coordination/communication causes cleric phase to last 5 minutes (instead of 60 seconds) resulting in only 3 rounds of tiamat heads, which is what forces zerglings in to the situation where they have to zerg in order to win.
The problem is not the head phase, it has never been head the phase. It's not even a problem of DPS. You can use whatever method you want to kill the heads, zerg, splerg, clerg, merg, HAMSTER, who cares.
The real problem, the only "challenge" to tiamat is herding cats, trying to get everyone to be where they need to be. That is most pronounced in the Cleric phase. 14 of your 20 minutes is being wasted in the "Defend the clerics" phase, which to the clueless zerg types, is spent standing on the clerics and watching their health deplete instead of killing demons on their spawn points.
This is why you only get 3 rounds of killing heads which is why your paltry dps must use the zerg method. If you weren't wasting time in the cleric phase you would easily have 5 or more rounds vs the heads. Then, and only then, it's a question of DPS. If you have good DPS then you can finish the heads in 2 or 3 rounds using whatever method you want. Or if you have HAMSTER DPS you finish in 4 or 5 rounds. But you always finish.
This is what you lost when us more hardcore's finished farming tiamat and left you in charge. The knowledge on how to do clerics and why it matters. Defending the Clerics is the only thing that matters, ie the only thing that determines success or failure in tiamat. Do it right and it only lasts 60-90 seconds and you get 5 shots at tiamat head, enough time for even 10k scrubs to finish her off.