ZERG is for idiots. It makes the whole instance a nonsense-based, lagfest.
All you need is one team to not use gems and blue/green and your instance loses - so easy fail mode there
Also in a zerg instance people don't know how to defend clerics because the orgonization is so poor so you can fail that way too.
In other words - zerg is for idiots.
SPLERG is also for idiots. Why? People insist starting at black/white. You should always start blue/green with two strong teams because if you miss a gem, everyone dies! Duh.
CLERG is best. This way there is good orgonization. The cleric phases go well because distribution is proper. No one misses a gem if the groups plan well.
I even changed my guild to "GREEN LEADER" so that people know where to go, who to follow, and how to run this instance.
Now i get that sometimes zerg can save you from an instance of idiots who can't communicate and organize, but in my opinion, if you can't communicate and organize into five groups of five in five minutes, you don't deserve to beat tiamat. Hell, you don't deserve to beat cloak tower. That's just stupid.
Can't heal stupid, can't save stupid, can't teach stupid, stupid is as stupid does. Now get me some of that Bubba Gump Shrimp.
I think CLERG works best overall, but it will all work itself out over time. In 2 months, there will be an established and distinct pattern that almost every group of 25 uses . . .
And, yes, I think ZERG is absolutely ridiculous, for so many reasons - wise-up Zerg people!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I think CLERG works best overall, but it will all work itself out over time. In 2 months, there will be an established and distinct pattern that almost every group of 25 uses . . .
And, yes, I think ZERG is absolutely ridiculous, for so many reasons - wise-up Zerg people!
We tried many time 5x 5 players group, DPS is far too low and it will not change by time that way we lose 90% fights.
We started group up, we started use tactics where all buffs/debuffs/DPS became stacked as ONE big Force, we started Win poorly programmed and heavily glitched encounter...
It is Ablsolute ridiculous that we cant choose teams and players we play with on this encounter, but it is not Ridiculous that we take tactic what gives us VICTORY what is our goal.
So claiming that winning is Ridiculous is really ridiculous.
ps. If I can play with "Premade" group we then can say who SOLO and what head then group carry own failures if SOLO fails.
We tried many time 5x 5 players group, DPS is far too low and it will not change by time that way we lose 90% fights.
Yep it always feels like a fourth cycle of clerics/heads would be needed to see the 5-group tactics work. I've seen white groups with CWs using dedicated Tiamat builds, knowing exactly when and where the adds spawn on the platform and repelling them half a second later.
It still fails, plus you know it right after the first series of heads and you know you're here for yet another two pointless cycles.
The problem is when the entire group cannot agree on a single strategy. So you have 10 people trying to zerg the black head while 3 or 4 people are struggling to kill the white or red heads. This strategy is doomed to fail.
I would urge people, in the preparation phase, to let people form color groups and try it that way, and if by the 2nd round you aren't seeing much progress, then switch to a zerg.
There will be less ZERG group IF dev can increase the gs requirement and give us a better queue system.
But will dev do it???:)
I seriously do not get this complaint. GS is simply not that important. Ok two different runs.
1. High GS, low skill:
I missed my regular time and land in a group. Go to blue get partied with 2 other DPS classes both 20Ks. then... nobody else. They are standing there PMing each other or stroking their EPeen whatever. So I start calling out in /say to get the party filled out and manage to grab one more. Everyone is wearing vorpals. soI slot in my GPF and call out '2nd' silence. So I try to get a gem order in /party to no avail and the door opens and we rush blue. First phase first breath weapon and nobody gems. Then I do (not wanting to die) and 2 others go off a second later. If you can count in a 4-man party this means doom. TL/DR instance wipes. Somewhere around phase 3 the 2 20Ks decide to actually use /party to complain that the problem was me and my (19K) 'low GS'.
2. High skill/ low GS
Get in on a Tactics and go blue (Yeah I usually go blue, habit. Also for some reason White tends to lag and it is an easy jump to assist them.) Hop to /party and we have 2 low GS and one newcomer. I call 2nd (also habit) and immediately start explaining the encounter cycle to the new guy. They getitand we go in and it is yet another nice, clean Tactics run because while we have a couple low GS they help and follow the plan making sure that our DPSers are up for the full cycle.
That's it. That's my 'GS requirement'. Can you follow a plan and work as a team? In. done.
I just make it easy and tell the whole instance what to do. Whether we win or lose, I still get reward. So, then I return to crafting many, many pairs of pants.
The GS requirement, and the low GS crowd, are being used as scapegoats. Nothing more.
It is sort of consistant throughout the game. The people who complain the most about GS are generally the worst at planning and communicating in my experience. Granted the toons I play themost are in the 18-20K range but that's just because of power creep it's nothing I target in the build. At one point GS indicated experience ie: you had to grind to get that gear so you learned to play the class under adverse conditions. But at this point I could easilly mail some enchants and 'buy' any of my alts into 20K builds in 5 minutes.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
point of zerg is so that undergeared, idiot **** players don't feel so bad about themselves. Any instance that wins with zerg could win with color gorups - more efficently - except it would "force" those "players" to realize they aren't very good.
Now if we do that repeatedly, maybe 11k players with no soulforge, no weapon enchant, and a crappy spec won't enter tiamat, THE WAY IT SHOULD BE.
An endgame raid should not be accessible after two weeks of playing! Please stay out of tiamat, noobs! All you are doing is making everyone fail!
We tried many time 5x 5 players group, DPS is far too low and it will not change by time that way we lose 90% fights.
We started group up, we started use tactics where all buffs/debuffs/DPS became stacked as ONE big Force, we started Win poorly programmed and heavily glitched encounter...
It is Ablsolute ridiculous that we cant choose teams and players we play with on this encounter, but it is not Ridiculous that we take tactic what gives us VICTORY what is our goal.
So claiming that winning is Ridiculous is really ridiculous.
ps. If I can play with "Premade" group we then can say who SOLO and what head then group carry own failures if SOLO fails.
If you are always losing on 5X5 encounters because YOUR team has low DPS, that mean it is time to gear up and get a better spec!
When you win in zerg and not 5x5 it means you are being carried!
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited December 2014
OK, guys... it's not universal.
Now granted if you have an experienced player playing a relatively poor geared too, but they have good spec, good teamwork, and dodge and listen, they can be very effective. THIS IS THE EXCEPTION.
Now, i don't want to revert to GS elitism for all instances. I am against that in general because:
a) the content was not all that hard and can be beaten with good coordination, even if you don't have gear
b) there is no time limit.
The fact there is a time limit and more people to coordinate means that in Tiamat, your gear ACTUALLY MATTERS. I think it's less important for DCs (mainly debuff) but for any more direct DPS classes, you need some gear!
So i would really like for undergeared people to simply NOT PLAY TIAMAT. Undergeared people do two things:
1) Weaken the whole isntance and take the slot of someone who could be actually useful
2) Increase the server load and cause the rest of us to lag.
Any time i am fortuante enough to have an instance of COMPITENT PLAYERS, we win easily. Sadly, most instances have too many people with no gear or zerging idiots.
BTW. I have always felt "geared" meant 15k. Now, you might think that sounds high, but i had a WHOLE GUILD OF PLAYERS WITH 15K IN MOD 1.
14k was undergeared in MOD 1. This is MOD 5. and it is EASIER TO GET GEAR NOW.
The only people who wouldn't like this are a) whiney noobs or b) zerging idiots.
I have no sympathy for whining or stupid, so complain all you like. Go run some T2 dungeons, run CN, learn to play, then come back. If you aren't ready, don't expect the rest of the instance to carry you.
If you are always losing on 5X5 encounters because YOUR team has low DPS, that mean it is time to gear up and get a better spec!
When you win in zerg and not 5x5 it means you are being carried!
Yeah, because 1 person determines a win or a loss in a 25 player raid, lol. You're so silly. I have 18.3k gear char and often rank in the top 5, yet I lost 16 battles out of 20 with color compositions and won 9 out of 10 in zergs. The numbers speak for themselves.
Yeah, because 1 person determines a win or a loss in a 25 player raid, lol. You're so silly. I have 18.3k gear char and often rank in the top 5, yet I lost 16 battles out of 20 with color compositions and won 9 out of 10 in zergs. The numbers speak for themselves.
Every Tiamat busted so far was a result of well-planned teams in my case, so the numbers that speak for themselves only whisper in your ears. In the end its the overall, collective potency of the players that determine success or failure, not whether you zerg or split stuff.
■ horde of low GS, low DPS people and/or classes = fail
■ horde of high GS, high DPS people and/or classes = success
In my case, every success I've had was with my own guildies whom I can trust as being able to put up stable DPS -- with methods to improve odds of being grouped together in a same instance. It means in every successful Tiamat raid I was in, at least 20% of the crowd were people I could trust that would put up stable DPS output.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited December 2014
Those who can, do. Those who can't, zerg.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
Every Tiamat busted so far was a result of well-planned teams in my case, so the numbers that speak for themselves only whisper in your ears. In the end its the overall, collective potency of the players that determine success or failure, not whether you zerg or split stuff.
■ horde of low GS, low DPS people and/or classes = fail
■ horde of high GS, high DPS people and/or classes = success
In my case, every success I've had was with my own guildies whom I can trust as being able to put up stable DPS -- with methods to improve odds of being grouped together in a same instance. It means in every successful Tiamat raid I was in, at least 20% of the crowd were people I could trust that would put up stable DPS output.
This is on point, but the difference is that a good team can lose in ways with zerg (poor ogonization) vs. winning with colors. The biggest advantage of colors is orgonizational.
Poor ogonization could be loss on cleric phase.
In addition many players have severe lag issues and hence it's harder to switch heads. While i know this shouldn't matter, it is a practical consideration.
zerg method will fail if nobody bother to coordinate which color gem to get.
Had a run yesterday where, people dont clear the mobs on the cleric and didnt get bother to get the blue soul gem. And result 20+ ppl keep wiping on the Blue AOE and promising run ended as a failure.
Some points to note as a zerg group
1) People must coordinate on which gem to take. Blue and Green, i'll say is the hardest hitting. Rest are pretty much dodgeable or tankable with DC buff etcc
2) Try to clear as much mobs on the Clerics,instead of leaving 3~5 alive, as you only need a few to 1 hit a glasscannon. And those are where your dps come.
3) If everyone dieing in the AOE, dont bother to ask for a rez, run back asap, remember to clear the injury
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
zerg method will fail if nobody bother to coordinate which color gem to get.
Had a run yesterday where, people dont clear the mobs on the cleric and didnt get bother to get the blue soul gem. And result 20+ ppl keep wiping on the Blue AOE and promising run ended as a failure.
Some points to note as a zerg group
1) People must coordinate on which gem to take. Blue and Green, i'll say is the hardest hitting. Rest are pretty much dodgeable or tankable with DC buff etcc
2) Try to clear as much mobs on the Clerics,instead of leaving 3~5 alive, as you only need a few to 1 hit a glasscannon. And those are where your dps come.
3) If everyone dieing in the AOE, dont bother to ask for a rez, run back asap, remember to clear the injury
If you are coordinating to this level - JUST SPLIT INTO COLO TEAMS, DON'T SPEND TIME RUNNING AROUND LIKE CHICKENS!
If you can pull this off you could do color teams and WIN FASTER with LESS CHANCES FOR ERROR.
This is on point, but the difference is that a good team can lose in ways with zerg (poor ogonization) vs. winning with colors. The biggest advantage of colors is orgonizational.
Poor ogonization could be loss on cleric phase.
In addition many players have severe lag issues and hence it's harder to switch heads. While i know this shouldn't matter, it is a practical consideration.
Zerg party doesn't always have poor organization. Many zerg parties did very well in the cleric phase that's why zerg party usually can end the tiamat :20. People will rotate to the Clerics who need help.
I agree your point that undergeared people should not play Tiamat and do not deserve to get the reward with their little effort to the fight. However, if you let people to choose "using a **** way to win" or "using the expected way but fail because of the undergeared/ low skill players", I think most of them will choose the first one.
I wish Cryptic can set some requirement like IWD so players will not be able to enter to WOD after less then 2 wks of reaching lv60. (I hope tiamat should require players finish all T1 and T2 dungeons once to unlock, otherwise I do not think the new players will not run dungeons anymore as the T1 and T2 gears are VERYVERY cheap in AH.)
If Cryptic does not improve the requirement setting, I think ZERG will dominate in Tiamat.
Sorry about my english:(
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Zerg party doesn't always have poor organization. Many zerg parties did very well in the cleric phase that's why zerg party usually can end the tiamat :20. People will rotate to the Clerics who need help.
I agree your point that undergeared people should not play Tiamat and do not deserve to get the reward with their little effort to the fight. However, if you let people to choose "using a **** way to win" or "using the expected way but fail because of the undergeared/ low skill players", I think most of them will choose the first one.
I wish Cryptic can set some requirement like IWD so players will not be able to enter to WOD after less then 2 wks of reaching lv60. (I hope tiamat should require players finish all T1 and T2 dungeons once to unlock, otherwise I do not think the new players will not run dungeons anymore as the T1 and T2 gears are VERYVERY cheap in AH.)
If Cryptic does not improve the requirement setting, I think ZERG will dominate in Tiamat.
Sorry about my english:(
You can 10k on first day of 60, 14k would be a better minimum
If you are coordinating to this level - JUST SPLIT INTO COLO TEAMS, DON'T SPEND TIME RUNNING AROUND LIKE CHICKENS!
If you can pull this off you could do color teams and WIN FASTER with LESS CHANCES FOR ERROR.
Actually the zerg strategy is more forgiving and less chance for error. The hardest part is the summoners. But I have seen people have learned to spread out more which is good, at last for the ones I've been into. Same for the cleric phase. If too many on one place, i normally say something in the /say chat that only 5 need to be at the sides and more effort needed on the center.
The reason zerg strategy is better is that it is less forgiving for when you have instances with lower gear/skill players. On a 5x5, heads do not have enough dps and usually not enough debuff/buffs. In a zerg, as long as a couple of people have the buffs/debuffs, it will go much faster. On a 5x5, losing a single char on a head is a much higher % dps loss than losing one person in a zerg.
The zerg strategy allows you to use this strategy with low gear/skill players and with high gear/skill players. While the 5x5 method may work with higher gear/skill players, it will not work effectively for lower dps players as you have to expect each group to have 1~2 debuffers to increase dps.
The important thing for me is to always get the green gem. That is the most dangerous dragon. The other ones can be easily dodge-able, although the blue one is dangerous if you miss dodge.
Every Tiamat busted so far was a result of well-planned teams in my case, so the numbers that speak for themselves only whisper in your ears. In the end its the overall, collective potency of the players that determine success or failure, not whether you zerg or split stuff.
■ horde of low GS, low DPS people and/or classes = fail
■ horde of high GS, high DPS people and/or classes = success
In my case, every success I've had was with my own guildies whom I can trust as being able to put up stable DPS -- with methods to improve odds of being grouped together in a same instance. It means in every successful Tiamat raid I was in, at least 20% of the crowd were people I could trust that would put up stable DPS output.
Not to mention nowadays standard:
horde of high GS, low DPS/no skill(...) people and/or classes = also fail
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
Actually the zerg strategy is more forgiving and less chance for error. The hardest part is the summoners. But I have seen people have learned to spread out more which is good, at last for the ones I've been into. Same for the cleric phase. If too many on one place, i normally say something in the /say chat that only 5 need to be at the sides and more effort needed on the center.
The reason zerg strategy is better is that it is less forgiving for when you have instances with lower gear/skill players. On a 5x5, heads do not have enough dps and usually not enough debuff/buffs. In a zerg, as long as a couple of people have the buffs/debuffs, it will go much faster. On a 5x5, losing a single char on a head is a much higher % dps loss than losing one person in a zerg.
The zerg strategy allows you to use this strategy with low gear/skill players and with high gear/skill players. While the 5x5 method may work with higher gear/skill players, it will not work effectively for lower dps players as you have to expect each group to have 1~2 debuffers to increase dps.
The important thing for me is to always get the green gem. That is the most dangerous dragon. The other ones can be easily dodge-able, although the blue one is dangerous if you miss dodge.
There are still many ways to fail. Cleric phase fail. Miss gem fail. and my favorite the "lag so much you can't move for a minute" fail.
Even a zerg strategy requires orgonization.
Yes maybe there aren't enough good players on each dragon but c'mon, it's an ENDGAME ENCOUNTER that is supposed to be THE MOST DIFFICULT THING OUT THERE. We should encourage those players without gear/skill/basic organizational ability to LOSE and IMPROVE.
I don't know what they were thinking about this design.
Zerg as it's name is idiotic tactic even if it works sometimes. the reasons are, first u losing time moving between heads, almost half time. second reason is u losing lot of dps on buffs. if two or more clerics put same buff on one head it will be just one buff. Everybody thinks that is good tactic cuz it looks like u killing it faster but u don't. with clerg i easily finished dragon with around 1.30s. same with splerg, but zerg actually i could hit dragon only once or twice and before i get to last head was time out. so if 25[ppl dps one head actually is just 10-15 ppl doing it with epic mounts others just run . problem is with clerg that to coordinate 25 ppl is not easy cuz some doesn't speak English some are firsts time and some are just freeloaders waiting for loot. and some are idiots who wants zerg and zerg. t
Splerg is most optimal cuz u split 3 to 2 and u have almost same dps like zerg but on 2 heads and lose less time running around and is easy to pull off.
Zerg works because it's simple. It's the strategy that needs the least orginization. Since it's a pug and will be a pug no matter what even with the new queue they have in the works, that means the zerg is the best strategy. If you could form a premade group for it all, color groups would be best, but since you can't make a 25 person premade raid color groups won't work well.
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dragoness10Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 780Arc User
edited December 2014
There was a success yesterday in Tiamat where people did do their color groups, no zerg, changed heads when one was not keeping up, and I died only 4-5 times when I forgot to get the dragon soul gem to use.
I consider this a win since everyone was helpful, and worked as a large team.
" I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Comments
+1 zerg is so stupid and only for noobs.
And, yes, I think ZERG is absolutely ridiculous, for so many reasons - wise-up Zerg people!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
even noobs can win by using zerg:)
We tried many time 5x 5 players group, DPS is far too low and it will not change by time that way we lose 90% fights.
We started group up, we started use tactics where all buffs/debuffs/DPS became stacked as ONE big Force, we started Win poorly programmed and heavily glitched encounter...
It is Ablsolute ridiculous that we cant choose teams and players we play with on this encounter, but it is not Ridiculous that we take tactic what gives us VICTORY what is our goal.
So claiming that winning is Ridiculous is really ridiculous.
ps. If I can play with "Premade" group we then can say who SOLO and what head then group carry own failures if SOLO fails.
Yep it always feels like a fourth cycle of clerics/heads would be needed to see the 5-group tactics work. I've seen white groups with CWs using dedicated Tiamat builds, knowing exactly when and where the adds spawn on the platform and repelling them half a second later.
It still fails, plus you know it right after the first series of heads and you know you're here for yet another two pointless cycles.
SPLERG: It would be still effective but good luck to explain it to 10k pugs...
I would urge people, in the preparation phase, to let people form color groups and try it that way, and if by the 2nd round you aren't seeing much progress, then switch to a zerg.
I seriously do not get this complaint. GS is simply not that important. Ok two different runs.
1. High GS, low skill:
I missed my regular time and land in a group. Go to blue get partied with 2 other DPS classes both 20Ks. then... nobody else. They are standing there PMing each other or stroking their EPeen whatever. So I start calling out in /say to get the party filled out and manage to grab one more. Everyone is wearing vorpals. soI slot in my GPF and call out '2nd' silence. So I try to get a gem order in /party to no avail and the door opens and we rush blue. First phase first breath weapon and nobody gems. Then I do (not wanting to die) and 2 others go off a second later. If you can count in a 4-man party this means doom. TL/DR instance wipes. Somewhere around phase 3 the 2 20Ks decide to actually use /party to complain that the problem was me and my (19K) 'low GS'.
2. High skill/ low GS
Get in on a Tactics and go blue (Yeah I usually go blue, habit. Also for some reason White tends to lag and it is an easy jump to assist them.) Hop to /party and we have 2 low GS and one newcomer. I call 2nd (also habit) and immediately start explaining the encounter cycle to the new guy. They getitand we go in and it is yet another nice, clean Tactics run because while we have a couple low GS they help and follow the plan making sure that our DPSers are up for the full cycle.
That's it. That's my 'GS requirement'. Can you follow a plan and work as a team? In. done.
The GS requirement, and the low GS crowd, are being used as scapegoats. Nothing more.
have to agree with this....
my group did this yesterday, worked very well
It is sort of consistant throughout the game. The people who complain the most about GS are generally the worst at planning and communicating in my experience. Granted the toons I play themost are in the 18-20K range but that's just because of power creep it's nothing I target in the build. At one point GS indicated experience ie: you had to grind to get that gear so you learned to play the class under adverse conditions. But at this point I could easilly mail some enchants and 'buy' any of my alts into 20K builds in 5 minutes.
point of zerg is so that undergeared, idiot **** players don't feel so bad about themselves. Any instance that wins with zerg could win with color gorups - more efficently - except it would "force" those "players" to realize they aren't very good.
Now if we do that repeatedly, maybe 11k players with no soulforge, no weapon enchant, and a crappy spec won't enter tiamat, THE WAY IT SHOULD BE.
An endgame raid should not be accessible after two weeks of playing! Please stay out of tiamat, noobs! All you are doing is making everyone fail!
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
If you are always losing on 5X5 encounters because YOUR team has low DPS, that mean it is time to gear up and get a better spec!
When you win in zerg and not 5x5 it means you are being carried!
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Now granted if you have an experienced player playing a relatively poor geared too, but they have good spec, good teamwork, and dodge and listen, they can be very effective. THIS IS THE EXCEPTION.
Now, i don't want to revert to GS elitism for all instances. I am against that in general because:
a) the content was not all that hard and can be beaten with good coordination, even if you don't have gear
b) there is no time limit.
The fact there is a time limit and more people to coordinate means that in Tiamat, your gear ACTUALLY MATTERS. I think it's less important for DCs (mainly debuff) but for any more direct DPS classes, you need some gear!
So i would really like for undergeared people to simply NOT PLAY TIAMAT. Undergeared people do two things:
1) Weaken the whole isntance and take the slot of someone who could be actually useful
2) Increase the server load and cause the rest of us to lag.
Any time i am fortuante enough to have an instance of COMPITENT PLAYERS, we win easily. Sadly, most instances have too many people with no gear or zerging idiots.
BTW. I have always felt "geared" meant 15k. Now, you might think that sounds high, but i had a WHOLE GUILD OF PLAYERS WITH 15K IN MOD 1.
14k was undergeared in MOD 1. This is MOD 5. and it is EASIER TO GET GEAR NOW.
The only people who wouldn't like this are a) whiney noobs or b) zerging idiots.
I have no sympathy for whining or stupid, so complain all you like. Go run some T2 dungeons, run CN, learn to play, then come back. If you aren't ready, don't expect the rest of the instance to carry you.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Yeah, because 1 person determines a win or a loss in a 25 player raid, lol. You're so silly. I have 18.3k gear char and often rank in the top 5, yet I lost 16 battles out of 20 with color compositions and won 9 out of 10 in zergs. The numbers speak for themselves.
Every Tiamat busted so far was a result of well-planned teams in my case, so the numbers that speak for themselves only whisper in your ears. In the end its the overall, collective potency of the players that determine success or failure, not whether you zerg or split stuff.
■ horde of low GS, low DPS people and/or classes = fail
■ horde of high GS, high DPS people and/or classes = success
In my case, every success I've had was with my own guildies whom I can trust as being able to put up stable DPS -- with methods to improve odds of being grouped together in a same instance. It means in every successful Tiamat raid I was in, at least 20% of the crowd were people I could trust that would put up stable DPS output.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
This is on point, but the difference is that a good team can lose in ways with zerg (poor ogonization) vs. winning with colors. The biggest advantage of colors is orgonizational.
Poor ogonization could be loss on cleric phase.
In addition many players have severe lag issues and hence it's harder to switch heads. While i know this shouldn't matter, it is a practical consideration.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Had a run yesterday where, people dont clear the mobs on the cleric and didnt get bother to get the blue soul gem. And result 20+ ppl keep wiping on the Blue AOE and promising run ended as a failure.
Some points to note as a zerg group
1) People must coordinate on which gem to take. Blue and Green, i'll say is the hardest hitting. Rest are pretty much dodgeable or tankable with DC buff etcc
2) Try to clear as much mobs on the Clerics,instead of leaving 3~5 alive, as you only need a few to 1 hit a glasscannon. And those are where your dps come.
3) If everyone dieing in the AOE, dont bother to ask for a rez, run back asap, remember to clear the injury
If you are coordinating to this level - JUST SPLIT INTO COLO TEAMS, DON'T SPEND TIME RUNNING AROUND LIKE CHICKENS!
If you can pull this off you could do color teams and WIN FASTER with LESS CHANCES FOR ERROR.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Zerg party doesn't always have poor organization. Many zerg parties did very well in the cleric phase that's why zerg party usually can end the tiamat :20. People will rotate to the Clerics who need help.
I agree your point that undergeared people should not play Tiamat and do not deserve to get the reward with their little effort to the fight. However, if you let people to choose "using a **** way to win" or "using the expected way but fail because of the undergeared/ low skill players", I think most of them will choose the first one.
I wish Cryptic can set some requirement like IWD so players will not be able to enter to WOD after less then 2 wks of reaching lv60. (I hope tiamat should require players finish all T1 and T2 dungeons once to unlock, otherwise I do not think the new players will not run dungeons anymore as the T1 and T2 gears are VERYVERY cheap in AH.)
If Cryptic does not improve the requirement setting, I think ZERG will dominate in Tiamat.
Sorry about my english:(
You can 10k on first day of 60, 14k would be a better minimum
True... basically the requirement of WOD is lv 60:)
After the 2x EXP weekend, there will be a tons of 10k (maybe with blue gears) in the Tiamat.
Actually the zerg strategy is more forgiving and less chance for error. The hardest part is the summoners. But I have seen people have learned to spread out more which is good, at last for the ones I've been into. Same for the cleric phase. If too many on one place, i normally say something in the /say chat that only 5 need to be at the sides and more effort needed on the center.
The reason zerg strategy is better is that it is less forgiving for when you have instances with lower gear/skill players. On a 5x5, heads do not have enough dps and usually not enough debuff/buffs. In a zerg, as long as a couple of people have the buffs/debuffs, it will go much faster. On a 5x5, losing a single char on a head is a much higher % dps loss than losing one person in a zerg.
The zerg strategy allows you to use this strategy with low gear/skill players and with high gear/skill players. While the 5x5 method may work with higher gear/skill players, it will not work effectively for lower dps players as you have to expect each group to have 1~2 debuffers to increase dps.
The important thing for me is to always get the green gem. That is the most dangerous dragon. The other ones can be easily dodge-able, although the blue one is dangerous if you miss dodge.
Not to mention nowadays standard:
horde of high GS, low DPS/no skill(...) people and/or classes = also fail
There are still many ways to fail. Cleric phase fail. Miss gem fail. and my favorite the "lag so much you can't move for a minute" fail.
Even a zerg strategy requires orgonization.
Yes maybe there aren't enough good players on each dragon but c'mon, it's an ENDGAME ENCOUNTER that is supposed to be THE MOST DIFFICULT THING OUT THERE. We should encourage those players without gear/skill/basic organizational ability to LOSE and IMPROVE.
I don't know what they were thinking about this design.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Splerg is most optimal cuz u split 3 to 2 and u have almost same dps like zerg but on 2 heads and lose less time running around and is easy to pull off.
I consider this a win since everyone was helpful, and worked as a large team.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon