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Balance Issues: Something has to be done, and before mod 6
katamaster81899
Member Posts: 1,157 Arc User
So, I was PVPing with a guildie, a 24k GWF, sentinel/intimidation specced. He's probably one of the best PVPers I know, has been hardcore PVPing since the leaderboard came out. Upon starting our first match, we both became frustrated with the inability for any class to be able to take on a TR 1v1. My friend, the 24k Sentinel GWF, was being oneshotted while unstoppable. By a 10k GS TR ****. This should not be possible. He is considering quitting the game because of his class's inability to take any damage, or do anything.
I can't believe I'm saying this as a CW, but Mod 3 PVP was so much better. The former GWF tyranny that had every other player in this game bawling their eyes out is childplay compared to the bull**** that the TRs can do now. Something needs to be done, and we can't wait six months for it.
In other words, there are two options the way I see it:
- Nerf TR big time
- Revamp tenacity and change the way it works for TR damage resistance, and balance it so TRs are only nerfed in PVP.
Discuss.
p.s. I play CW as a main, and GWF is my primary alt, I PVP on both, and PVE on both (respec when switching)
I can't believe I'm saying this as a CW, but Mod 3 PVP was so much better. The former GWF tyranny that had every other player in this game bawling their eyes out is childplay compared to the bull**** that the TRs can do now. Something needs to be done, and we can't wait six months for it.
In other words, there are two options the way I see it:
- Nerf TR big time
- Revamp tenacity and change the way it works for TR damage resistance, and balance it so TRs are only nerfed in PVP.
Discuss.
p.s. I play CW as a main, and GWF is my primary alt, I PVP on both, and PVE on both (respec when switching)
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Assumptions: your buddy has somewhere around 45k HP and 40% DR. Tell me if I'm wrong.
If he used unstoppable, this damage reduction becomes 40 + .6*30 (assuming that unstoppable is multiplicative, as I'm unsure) = 58% DR. He probably has enough tenacity for another 20% DR in PvP = .42 * 20 = 8.4 + 58 = ~66% DR.
Great. Now his effective HP:
45k + .2*45k + barkshield = 54k + 2430 = 56.4k HP.
Effective HP = 56.4 / .34 = 165k HP
The enemy TR would have needed to hit your friend for 165k HP with one shot. That's impossible. Stop lying. That doesn't happen at 24k GS, and it most certainly doesn't happen at 10k GS.
Us GWF's are helpless.
We deserve to be the best class in PVP like in module 2 (I'm serious), here's why:
- We are true warriors
- We RUSH towards the enemy without being afraid of anything
- We have honor
Sigh...
I'd say your estimation of my friends stats are right but you are most definitely wrong about the TR one-shotting because anyone who's been PVPing recently knows that it is happening to everyone.
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Like mrmauveforum above mentioned, its impossible unless your friend is one of those useless PvE builds with all the 24k GS dumped into power, and has something like only 28k HP or something.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
The old immortal GWF from module 2 would smack any current TR trees anyday.
Anyone who's been using forums since forever knows that people lie about stuff, remember things wrong, or are most usually poorly informed and has no idea about what actually happened.
I don't want to call you a liar. You probably think that's what happened. Except its PHYSICALLY impossible. A TR build that sacrifices everything for LB, puts all enchants for power, uses every type of damage buff he can get, and he still can't reach enough damage to even remotely come close to putting up required damage levels.
You saw something perfectly normal, and then proceeded to misinterpret of exaggerate it.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
So your friend (godlike GWF) was one shotted by a TR while unstoppable. So he was at full health, running around and magically had full unstoppable up and then bam, one shot.
seems legit...
GWF was used to falling asleep at keyboard and waking up with a 50-0 record. First rangers started to kill them, now TR. I still hear roar when I sleep
Yup that is true.
But when HR/TR started to rivalize with us we were nerfed.
If Module 2 GWF was put into module 5 people would easily forget about TR, mark my words. It was the most threatening thing in NeverWinter history.
I think even "Roar-GWF" (No unstoppable and determination nerf) would put up a great fight against the current TR.
I don't know about TR for sure, but I did a lot of testing on the PTR before the launch and I know for a fact that both CW and DC can get hits as large as this. So I think it is completely plausible that a TR could do it.
I'd do signifigantly less to your friend. A 10k tr built to 1 shot people can't do anywhere near that damage.
Anyhow the type or tr that does the big hits isnt even the one causing problems in pvp. Sadly most ofnthese tr reports give the impression the tr involved has all 3 capstones.
Another make - up story come on man 10k gs TR can 1 shot GWF 24kGS you are far from truth brother. I'm 18k gs when i do lashing blade with a gwf 20k+ GS its only 12k but most of the time 6k. Maybe that 10k GS TR has 10k power with 200% critical severity. to be able to do that damage....
LOOL this is soo true. I was wondering how his friend got unstoppable fully up when he was at full health too!! All these other nerds decided to do math to prove him wrong though. Eww math xD
This GWF smells some bull**** here..
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
From now on 2 things happen:
1) Everybody not playing the actual uberclass starts complaining, mostly in a mix between rage and whining, why this class should be nerved ASAP. Keywords like onehit, even weaker gear tops BiS equip and so on.
2) The other side, in this case the TR, starts their feedback by a) complaining that all other classes should l2p to handle the new situation b) complaining that nearly everthing said is simply wrong and c) arguing about uberclasses in previous mods, addon or whatever it is called.
So as a player who loves pvp without having any ambitions for uberness let me say this:
When by the day the changes went live in any bracket the new uberclass becomes more and more played, to a point over 50% play exactly this class is the point where there are no arguments by the class defenders anymore (TR players). When 90% of the top players are TR, then there IS a huge misbalance.
Its funny while leveling to see more and more TR players in the daily pvp matches. Because this class is now so freakin cool that everyone has to do it, or because its easy to farm others?
Dont get me wrong, everyone just playing TR all the time will love this uberness 1 perhaps 2 weeks. Then he/she will stop loving it, because there is no difference anymore between skilled and non skilled TRs anymore. Remember the days a gwf <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you the hell out of your jacket? - That wasnt funny? - Oh, but it is funny to do the same thing now?
Stop complaining why someone is better than any other and try to view it from a neutral side. This misbalance has to be reviewed by the developers fast. They have to change something. And they have to change it slowly. Because nerfing to the ground isnt a way either.
Personally i dont like TRs. Its not my mechanik to play, i would never start playing this class. Should i now stop with pvp because its no fun anymore in battlegrounds?
To be fair, GWFs do have a sure way to build Determination and it just so happens to be one of the main encounters for Sentinels at the moment. But yeah the opening post is not exactly well-grounded.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
With that said, I think people's opinions that TR is overpowered is well documented. Just hope that the devs get a clue
I don’t really want to comment on the state of TR’s, however the above quoted calculations show a much to high number due the fact you forgot to account some multipliers.
- Enemies armor penetration
- Enemies chance to ignore resistances (caused by some abilities and talents)
- Enemy weapon enchantments
- Stacked enemies damage multipliers (buffs and debuffs)
In short, we don’t have enough information to actually calculate the damage done by this TR oneshotting a geared GWF.
The number the rogue actually hit was less then the mentioned 150k for sure though, which might imply the oneshot did actually happen and might also imply the current TR might need some tweaking. However, I like a challenge and a TR is beatable for sure (or at least tankable for some classes)
//
I run around with a 25khp TR. I get walloped for a lot if my hit points in one hit, but have never been one shotted in the new module 5.
I HAVE one shotted people myself, but they are severely undergeared.
OP is spreading BS
Safe travels,
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PWE Community Moderator
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