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Shifting doesn't work for pvp in mmos
shhbacon
Member Posts: 100 Arc User
I always thought that the shifting(pressing shift while in pvp) was something different, which i enjoyed at first, but after playing for so long my opinion has changed. Shifting is great for a lan party, everyone is on equal ground.
But, in a mmo people will have a advantage/disadvantage depending what their ping is. Have you ever been in a 1 v 1 and you use a encounter, it hits them, and a half/full second later they shift and your encounter misses. That all has to do with your ping Lowest pings will always have a advantage...
Though adding a dodge stat/enchant would make building characters more difficult, i think back to my old WoW days, it was a pain in the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> trying to manage so many stats...
But, in a mmo people will have a advantage/disadvantage depending what their ping is. Have you ever been in a 1 v 1 and you use a encounter, it hits them, and a half/full second later they shift and your encounter misses. That all has to do with your ping Lowest pings will always have a advantage...
Though adding a dodge stat/enchant would make building characters more difficult, i think back to my old WoW days, it was a pain in the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> trying to manage so many stats...
Post edited by shhbacon on
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This is an Action Combat MMO that happens to have some PvP. This is a PvE game with PvP as an option.
And the thing about an Action Combat System is that where you stand has to make a difference. If you dodged just because some stat said you did then it might as well be a standstill game like the Original NWN.
My advice, as always, is that the best PvP comes from games which are designed for PvP only. NW is not designed for PvP but it has what I consider an enjoyable PvP option. However as a long time fan of D&D you will always find a large community of people in any game with a D&D stamp on it who are going to tell you the following line:
This is a D&D game and is therefore a PvE game; PvP should have no effect on game decisions or PvE in any way.
Saying something as pivotal as dodging and shifting should be removed for the sake of PvP is not really going to gain any traction because this is not a PvP MMO.
Most of your "Wha... I've been hit?" moments are simply a result of bad timing. Certain powers with particularly fast activation/hit calculation that happens faster than the actual power animation can especially cause such confusion. The GWF Takedown comes to mind,
For example, this power "hits' a lot faster than GWF players claim it does. The 'hit' happens before the actual "bash down with hilt". It happens some time around the "raise hilt" motion. You engage dodge right as you see the "raise hilt" motion, then you're going to be hit. The infamous "rubberband back to the place to be hit" happens during these sort of hits. By this time, most people with experience in fighting against GWFs have learned to basically dodge one 'rythm' faster to GWF attacks.
...now, when the ping starts crawling over 250ms... or the server hass hiccups... that's a different story.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Unless you are playing a turn-based game, or a round-based game, having high ping will *always* impair you against low latency opponents. Some games have tried to shift the hit detection on the client side (namely Planetside), but this causes a whole new array of problems (if you have an average ping, and you duck for cover, the guy playing with a 56k modem with 2 seconds ping will hit you when you are by large out of harm's way).
There's not much you can do about it, except significantly slow down the whole gameplay or use stat-based deflection/dodge (that would set us back 10 years of MMO evolution).
The title was suppose to be "Shifting doesn't work for mmos with pvp" my tablet doesn't seem to like forums for some odd reason.
Can we get a edit for title too? or is there a reason why editing topic title is disabled?
You have hundreds of ms to dodge any non–insta, casted or incantated skill. How many ping you could have not to be able to dodge on time?
The system that makes it playable is stamina (as in many mmos) and it is an important stat in nwo too.
There are even boons, feats and potions that increases guard/stamina gain stat.
I can`t get what has ping to dodge.
Do you have 500ms ping?!
Also, not only dodges can make encounter to miss.
I can`t also get why did you posted this in NWO forum as its the engine basics mechanism, not a game–specific.
Least, but not last, appraisement if encounter will hit or not is a BASIC; not only for PvP nor PvE.
If you can feel any miss–hit difference it means, you do not make appraisements or have too hight ping to play smoothly (like over 120ms or 240–280 for casual non–pvp players who depends on visuals only or plays without sound or self–decreases their chance to win effectively in other way).
Ping plays a huge roll when pvping, i could have a ping of 50ms and my opponent could have a ping of 150ms and i will have a slight advantage, because when i use a skill my opponent doesn't see it the second i use it, as there is a delay of time depending on how much higher his ping is... which is why shifting isnt suited for mmos that have pvp. Ping works the same way in fps, you won't be as accurate facing someone with a much lower ping then you.
Um yes it is effected... For example if im a cw and im facing someone that has a higher ping then me and i hit shift to tele through my opponent, on my opponents screen i haven't tele'd yet so when he uses a encounter itll hit but itll say "dodged". All the people playing aren't in sync so they all don't see the same thing... unless their pings/grahpics are similar.
Ahh, right. That's why balance changes are not heavily weighted towards PvP and do not hamper PvE at the same time. Oh, wait...
This
/10char
The same thing happens if you both press a control power on each other at the same time or do anything else at the same time. It's just something we have to live with unless we want boring turn based combat in every game.
Ping/latency hurts but there's nothing you can do about it except adapt to the situation. Also shhbacon your example with the teleporting is grossly exaggerated unless one person has like 400-500 ping. It's not quite THAT bad when trying to land skills; it's more dodging things that's an issue.
I think people without a clue are funnier.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
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