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DC is fine in current PVP, no need to change
matthiasthehun76
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
Hi!
Now many of you won't like this and would now throw stones, but please read through carefully and then comment!
I also got 5 toons and know, how PVP is for other classes and my opinion is based on my own experiences.
Ok, what i am saying is, that the DC needs no change in PVP. Why?
1. While a TR can one shot anybody a DC is good to have on your team and on the opposite team a DC is only a menace, if you don't have one, but if you have more TRs or just one with a special build, a DC is no challenge at all. (Now a new Warlock build is also coming which can do the 1-2 shot as well!)
DC is very good now, enjoyable to play after long suffering for DC players, no need to nerf it, cause it would affect it's PVE performance too and i think everybody likes a DC in his team in a dungeon, no need to weaken her.
So my advise for PVP matchmaking would be to limit the DC to one in every team and also limit TR to one in team, this way neither would be to OP and of course if a DC queues, let the other team have one as well, same goes for the TR.
I know, this way q would become longer, but a match would be more fun, not so one sided as it is now.
2. Sorry to say, but there are many bad players or players, who don't care, only come for the AD and ruin others fun and there is also the very high GS vs low GS and the premade issue as well.
Here a DC is a good clutch to help a low GS team and believe me, i still lose many matches with my DC, she gets many under 7k or even under 3k players with no enchants or anything on them, many in green, so it doesn't matter how strong my DC is, she can't bring the entire team to victory, if they come half naked to a match.
Thank you!
Now many of you won't like this and would now throw stones, but please read through carefully and then comment!
I also got 5 toons and know, how PVP is for other classes and my opinion is based on my own experiences.
Ok, what i am saying is, that the DC needs no change in PVP. Why?
1. While a TR can one shot anybody a DC is good to have on your team and on the opposite team a DC is only a menace, if you don't have one, but if you have more TRs or just one with a special build, a DC is no challenge at all. (Now a new Warlock build is also coming which can do the 1-2 shot as well!)
DC is very good now, enjoyable to play after long suffering for DC players, no need to nerf it, cause it would affect it's PVE performance too and i think everybody likes a DC in his team in a dungeon, no need to weaken her.
So my advise for PVP matchmaking would be to limit the DC to one in every team and also limit TR to one in team, this way neither would be to OP and of course if a DC queues, let the other team have one as well, same goes for the TR.
I know, this way q would become longer, but a match would be more fun, not so one sided as it is now.
2. Sorry to say, but there are many bad players or players, who don't care, only come for the AD and ruin others fun and there is also the very high GS vs low GS and the premade issue as well.
Here a DC is a good clutch to help a low GS team and believe me, i still lose many matches with my DC, she gets many under 7k or even under 3k players with no enchants or anything on them, many in green, so it doesn't matter how strong my DC is, she can't bring the entire team to victory, if they come half naked to a match.
Thank you!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Post edited by matthiasthehun76 on
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Guardian Fighter main. I will never switch to Paladin even if we're a dying breed. GF for ever!
Main alts: Great Weapon Fighter, Control Wizard.
But more than one of them in the same team, and their mutual synergizing makes them much more difficult to counter with normal means, since they don't feel like "1+1=2", but rather "1 + 1 = 11".
We need heal debuff powers.
A special form of debuff which directly counters heals... put these debuff effects on some powers which are deemed useless, so the power gains both use AND balance -- if you want to neuter DCs, you fight with a specialized heal debuff power, which otherwise sucks as an attack power.
Or, conversely, can our wizards receive dispel magic?? I mean a huge part of "magical fights" in fantasy themes are spells and dispels. I think its thoroughly unfair when DCs themselves can put up persistent DoTs and effects upon the enemy, and then cleanse ill effects on themselves, while the CW cannot do the same. A DC puts up their damned AoE buffs and astral shield? Bring a wizard to dispel it.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Just like DPS specced CW or GF.
DC damage is fine.
but selfhealing will make unkillable OP class
i think dev should nerf selfhealing DC to half
so it's come to strategic matter it's clear to kill DC first and you need to protect DC in your team
limit 1 DC in a party is good thing
If in PVP and PVE we can limit 1 class every team it's would be wonderfull but i know it's too good to be true lol
Oh the damage is fine, but the way it is delivered, is not. Basically, DCs do it in the same way the current OP WK/Sab TRs do it:
DoTs. Persistent, unending, automatic.
Basically the same thing as being hit by Disheartening Strike from a WK.. damage which just goes on and on and on and on and on... until you're dead. The difference is, DCs shrug off any DoT on themselves.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
The only time I died is being focused by 2 oppressor 18k CWs and it took them like 1 min.
#balanced
This fixes would destroy it in PvE, no. You dont need the heal for PvE and the sunburst effect is funny, but hated by most dds.
You cant carry a -7k GS PuG team? Guess what, to do so you would have to be better than 5 ppl combined. You are not OP, bc you are not 5 times as strong, as the other classes? I got another definition af OP.
And more DPS than a fighter DPS.
The only thing that prevents from seeing the mod5 DC as way too OP in pvp is the über-OP mod5 TR.
First- DMG- DC is healing class, not killer and damage dealer. First or second person in kills in leaderboard is DC so this is just wrong
Second- This Healing abbility is to much, if you have 2 premades with similar classes and one of them have got DC than premade without dc is just lost. I would say, dc selfhealing is ok for now, he should be very difficult to kill or even almost immpossible to kill 1 vs 1, but healing should be half effective on rest of group, becouse even squishy CW focusing by 3 pople is almost immpossible to kill with good DC.
From where did you pull that answer of yourse? Just to alert you to youre blatant lying, DC has only ONE i repeat that especially for you, ONE control skill - chains of Blazing Light. Well there is another single target skill that leaves one player/mob prone: its a daily BTW. Majority of large damage dealing skills DC needs to target, it means half the time you can just plain and simple walk out. That said DCs will be toned down. Its a given.
P.s. to the guy who suggested to half DCs self heals, its already cut down to 70% penalty...There is no where lower to go, unless you want to cancel ALL self healing and that just ******ed...
CCs: chains, sunburst and I think there was one more, when I read the new tooltip (maybe empowered break the spirit?). I did not bother, bc. I play my DC in PvE, but I think, that there where 3 enc powers and flamestrike. That would sum up to 3 CCs+3 CCs from the empowered spell in a row. I could not say, that it is close to oppressors CC,bc. I did not test it.
PS. Either some spells dont respect healing depression and the DC penalty or he can heal for more than 200k now.
Yes my bad forgot to count in Sun burst. Divine Chains CC is virtually none existent, you need to have pretty good connection/ no lag spikes to execute a successful combo with them. In grand total its two CC encounter powers. Hardly counts as "more CC then a CW", even a none specked CW can provide loads of crowd control if they bother. And lets admit it Sun Burst provides wary minor CC , since it mostly leaves everything scattered around, and in PvP in less then a second you are back up and moving, for raged classes its not even worth to mention as a CC. How ever if Sun Burst is currently bugged or no i leave to discuss other players. I have noticed nothing amiss, but then again i do not pay that close attention. Yes, the healing i agree, is over the top and it will be dealt with. I would prefer for them just to fix empowered AS and leave everything else, since its the main issue in PvP in my option. But most likely we will end up at bottom of chain, like people were used to in Mod4 and once more demand.
P.S. and just to drive my point home, almost every daily in CWs tree, provides CC - be it prone, scatter, disable etc. I have hard time right now remembering what dailies do not give CC. Maybe storm spell wizards, their last daily in tree, may not give any control. I honestly do not remember. Almost every skills gives a CC effect. RoE is probably the only encounter that gives 0 control, even conduit of ice on Tab provides control. There is no where even NEAR a DC will be able to dish out so much control, not to mention: "The fact that the DPS DC has more CC than a CW saying everything really". That whats set me off, the blatant lying.
A full tank healer should do that much. You can't scratch the warlock, he should not be able to kill you.
The CWs probably didn't have much damage?
BTW, i agree with DPS being too high, tone down healing on team mates and if DPS clerics get too much control, it's ok to tone it down.
Survivability should be the way it is now or quite close to it. A tank DC is supposed to have 0 DPS but must have the ability to tank the enemies while supporting the party. In module 4, you felt like a helpless training dummy everyone could DPS down, more or less, at same gear level.
Now you really feel like a tank healer. Enemy party needs to focus you and CC you. If they do that, you go down fast. If they fail cause you are good at dodging and your team protects you focusing the controllers, then you can tank and support.
I would just tone down the heals to other players where they are too much. Astral shield must stay as it is. If you attack me inside a 3 stacks AS, then you are just dumb. You can CC and prevent the DC from collecting stacks or knock him out of AS exc...
And it's not like i don't meet them in PvP. My main is a GWF Instigator PvP build. In one match we lost cause out team didn't have enough CC and couldn't kill the enemy DC. Which is right cause in PvP nobody is a full DPS build, while tank DCs are 100% tanks. So they MUST be able to tank 3-4 enemies for a fair amount of time, and be unkillable in 1v1. Going down very slowly 2v1 and slowly 3v1. Unless they get CCed and are stopped from doing their stuff (collecting stacks, placing protections and healing.
I think the tank ability is fair. Nothing to change there or you get back to useless tank healers who go down easily. Expecially with current crazy amount of DPS with SW DPS, red glyphed CWs, red glyphed HRs, and the new god of the battlefield, TR.
I just checked, divine break the spirit has a 3 second stun. Furthermore I can confirm, that sunburst ignores CC immunity. I like, that DCs are viable in PvP, but the should not be build, that require no skill to be unkillable, if you have the right gear.
Mmm about divine break spirit - never proked for me, so i did not bother with this skill after first match, have to check it out closer. Sun Burst will be fixed then im sure. For me personally its a refreshing change, that no basically geared up shmug - with barely 3k power can face roll you now. Yes i agree - DC needs a tone down, lets just hope it will be a tone down, not a full fledged concussion, like the majority of people demand on forum.
Were you able to kill them? No? So you couldn't kill them and they couldn't kill you..... That must mean DCs need a nerf. Btw go against 1 TR who has bloodbath slotted, and knows what he's doing, and you can kiss your unkillable DC goodbye
I killed him due to red glyphs.
I am not saying DC is in great spot and dose not need any attention. In fact i am one of the few people who play DC and admit that at least empowered AS needs to be looked in to. Thou to be honest, the whole revamp of gaming mechanic was a fantastic idea, it should have been from the start like that. How ever divinity gain SHOULD be left alone, it is sourly needed - the way the class plays now, if they lower it, DCs will be officially gimped. As well as damage, sure it will great on some nerves in PvE, when you are out dpsed by a DC but in PvP - its difficult to land a solid combo. I honestly cannot say that a speced DPS DCs DoTs should for some reason deal less damage. The tankiness should be looked in to i agree, but i personally never seen a DPS cleric live remarkably long in a PvP fight, to be a bother. But what most people demand, even in this post - is absurd. "Cut their self heal by half", one says: "Cut their teammate healing by half" another, cut the DPS and tankines and so on and so forth, and every single one is convinced - its a good idea...
Waiting until Empowered A Shield runs out must be hard, it's obviously easier to Daily a CW who has his shield fully powered and can still dodge. Or to CC a GWF who can still sprint up to you and one shot you with Intimidation... In fact nothing is easier than to wait for a GFs Guard Meter is down before trying to attack him... But idk "Repelling" a DC out of A Shield is way to hard and therefore should be cut out of the game as well as waiting for it to end
Remember when Guardian Fighters were saying "Just wait until shield is down, it's not that hard" and CWs were saying "Just hit with little attacks first, it's not that hard" how about when HRs were saying "Just step out of thorn ward, it's not that hard" don't forget GWFs saying "Just wait until sprint is over and unstoppable has ended, it's not that hard"... I bet if I said "Just wait until Empowered A Shield is over, it's not that hard" then there would be a bunch of flaming.
Were you going against someone who had more than 25k HP? I'm not sure how sunburst, and Astral Seal (and whatever other encounter you were using), could kill someone with more than that amount of HP. Btw how long did it take before they realized that they shouldn't hit you when you're in A Shield?
I think, that DoF does not respect healing depression (otherwise the heal would be 200k+). It should have been caped at max HP, I think I read something like that in the prevew section. It would still heal for 10k+ on PvP DCs and 20k+ on teammates. They should fix that and take another look at the healing. GWFs admitted to buggy roar, asked for a fix, did not get it and got nerfed to oblivion. I hope, that wont happen to DC.
Why would 14k lock be a threat to your 16k faithful DC?
I'm 15k Righteous and if they won't basically one shot me, they won't hurt me on equal or lower gear.
I wrote long detailed answer and here it is
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Red glyphs are a whole other matter. I am against those enchants and think they should be nerfed, quite simply the give way too much DPS boost to DoT builds/ classes.
A full tank healer must do what i wrote. If damage is too much, nerf damage.
If a non-full tank build can still heal too much, adjust it so that only full tank healers can have that kind of survivability (like linking the survivability to capstones the same way they did for GWFs).
What i wanted to clarify is that a full tank healer not being killed by 1 enemy is perfectly WAI since it should not be able to kill the enemy either.
A tank-healer must be able to tank multiple damage incoming while supporting the team mates. Supporting means he increases their survivability but can't make them immortal. This way in a fight you have to actually come up with a strategy and the tank-healer is useful and acts as a bastion that empowers his team and is not easy to take down.
Back in module 4 the DC was very marginal as support and mediocre as tanking ability, which felt quite wrong to me.
Right now it's fine to see that a full tank-healer can actually make a difference, can either fight in group and be a force to deal with, or go 1v1 to stall a point waiting for support.
Just need to tone down the team support ability in PvP and the DPS of DPS builds which is insane (they hit harder than warlocks and CWs...lol).
Just want to dispell the myth that DPS classes must be able to take down any enemy 1v1. Not a full tank. A full tank can just, as the name says, be a hard rock your team must cooperate to take down. In return, he can't kill a fly.