The OP is correct, GF are in serious need of love, far more so in PVP than PVE. THe corrections in PVP would help tremendously in PVE though.
GF need more baseline Deflect, Crit, Armor Pen.
10-20% more deflect
5-10% more crit
10-15% more armor pen.
After that increase at will dmg by at least 100% and Increase top end wpn dmg by about 20-30. We already have the slowest run speed slowest attack speed and outside of lunging strike and bulls rush very limited mobility.
Frankly the Profound 4p bonus 12.5% increase runspeed should be added to all existing 4p bonuses.
I have 50k life 49% Damage resistance and 29% deflect and less than an hour ago I had a CW almost one shot me, left me with less than 3k life, I died to the next attack. I have had the exact same thing happen at the hands of TR, GWF. I have had HR hit me twice almost instantly and take 70% of my life and even if that were not the case I do not have the dps to kill one 1v1 if they use their disengages right and simply regen. DC currently are now also an Impossible fight, more dmg than me more healing and just as tanky.
GF is currently bottom of the barrel and Is so by a significant margin.
Enough with increasing damage. At this rate of buffs n' HAMSTER classes will be 1-shotting things with at-wills in PVE and turn PVP into a SUDDEN DEATH mode.
News flash it already is, and no it is not ok that 4 classes can do it with regularity and GF can not do it at all ever.
Also, lets keep this real before someone trys to pull the Knights challenge Anvil card. We can only do that if they are already under 40% with a crit and it takes two Encounters and can be easily avoided or even kill you for trying it. It also is impossible in end game gear on an opponent also in end game gear.
Oh and for reference I am ok with not increasing dmg if you bring everyone else down about 30% If you think that is going to happen though you are out of your mind.
I agree with vaulwyn.DPS increase of other classes,specially ranged ones and many dots,have turned pvp in one shot contest.i do not pvp anymore caus of this.
Gf has to play with wise gamepley to hit somebody.Yet the ranged classes just pew pew with at wills.
Another,a SW ate my half Hp pool while i was blocking him head on.he was the new paragon i think.cause i saw some strange pet in pvp,different than the previous ones.
Generally tenacity need to be increased in every set,existant and future ,by 25-30%.
And GF tenacity more.otherwise with all these ranges dps and dots,we do not stand a chance.We are getting slaugheterd by inferior players by inferior gear.Just our class in current NW meta (dots,long ranges ,glyphs) sucks.
I agree with vaulwyn.DPS increase of other classes,specially ranged ones and many dots,have turned pvp in one shot contest.i do not pvp anymore caus of this.
Gf has to play with wise gamepley to hit somebody.Yet the ranged classes just pew pew with at wills.
Another,a SW ate my half Hp pool while i was blocking him head on.he was the new paragon i think.cause i saw some strange pet in pvp,different than the previous ones.
Generally tenacity need to be increased in every set,existant and future ,by 25-30%.
And GF tenacity more.otherwise with all these ranges dps and dots,we do not stand a chance.We are getting slaugheterd by inferior players by inferior gear.Just our class in current NW meta (dots,long ranges ,glyphs) sucks.
It's far worse for GWF. At least you still have your shield block.
0
damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
It's far worse for GWF. At least you still have your shield block.
"Shield block" eh? You mean our Guard that is bugged so that it randomly lowers so you take unblocked damage? The Guard that also has a 'delay' after it is raised where it doesn't block damage? The Guard that allows some abilities and Powers to by-pass it? The Guard where some types of damage that are blocked actually deal more damage than if it wasn't Blocked at all? The Guard that 'blocks' damage but in fact only mitigates it by 80%?
Yes. We have a shield that is supposed to function to 'block' out damage but instead is subjected to numerous bugs and mechanics that actually make the entire system often unexpectedly unwieldy.
"Shield block" eh? You mean our Guard that is bugged so that it randomly lowers so you take unblocked damage? The Guard that also has a 'delay' after it is raised where it doesn't block damage? The Guard that allows some abilities and Powers to by-pass it? The Guard where some types of damage that are blocked actually deal more damage than if it wasn't Blocked at all? The Guard that 'blocks' damage but in fact only mitigates it by 80%?
Yes. We have a shield that is supposed to function to 'block' out damage but instead is subjected to numerous bugs and mechanics that actually make the entire system often unexpectedly unwieldy.
Both Unstoppable and Sprint have delays and activate a short time after you have told them to activate, for now we live with it. Somewhere above me a poster said the GF needs more base Crit, more Deflect and more ArmPen.. well, you people are really getting pathetic. Is this where we end up now, asking for class buffs because our builds lack a certain STAT ? If you want to play a class at the highest level then either grind your way to bis gear or whip out your credit card. GFs already are in a super good spot in PVP. My Conq easily sits at 53K HP and crits for 8-10K with an At-Will. With 20% crit from gear and the capstone I crit very often and my single target damage is much better than the single target of my GWF. My Conq also has almost 50% DR and currently 37% Deflect. SWs commit suicide when they attack me, perma rogues have zero chance to drive me off node, even hunter rangers fail to kill me with auto proc dots cause I regen like crazy.. Anything else ? Oh yea, my GF is not even at bis lvl yet. I have just 1 legendary item (my belt), I still use CN weapon set. If I decide to get Arti weapon set, 3 orange artifacts and a cloak I'll be freakin' indestructible as a Conqueror who can 1rotation squishies.
In contrast my almost bis GWF who has better gear ( currently 4 legendaries and the rest are on the way) than my GF is nowhere near as tough and has less single target damage. If my toons were to fight the GF would win every time.
You cant just come and ask for class buffs to cover for your poor builds.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Both Unstoppable and Sprint have delays and activate a short time after you have told them to activate, for now we live with it. Somewhere above me a poster said the GF needs more base Crit, more Deflect and more ArmPen.. well, you people are really getting pathetic. Is this where we end up now, asking for class buffs because our builds lack a certain STAT ? If you want to play a class at the highest level then either grind your way to bis gear or whip out your credit card. GFs already are in a super good spot in PVP. My Conq easily sits at 53K HP and crits for 8-10K with an At-Will. With 20% crit from gear and the capstone I crit very often and my single target damage is much better than the single target of my GWF. My Conq also has almost 50% DR and currently 37% Deflect. SWs commit suicide when they attack me, perma rogues have zero chance to drive me off node, even hunter rangers fail to kill me with auto proc dots cause I regen like crazy.. Anything else ? Oh yea, my GF is not even at bis lvl yet. I have just 1 legendary item (my belt), I still use CN weapon set. If I decide to get Arti weapon set, 3 orange artifacts and a cloak I'll be freakin' indestructible as a Conqueror who can 1rotation squishies.
In contrast my almost bis GWF who has better gear ( currently 4 legendaries and the rest are on the way) than my GF is nowhere near as tough and has less single target damage. If my toons were to fight the GF would win every time.
You cant just come and ask for class buffs to cover for your poor builds.
^^^
emilemo,as you see none GF wants confrontation with GWFs,but you keep attacking us and say lies and HAMSTER during your attacks.
if your Gf is so super play your **** GF then.But since you are pro GWF and attack GF ,the logical thing is that you exagerate.
Last night i played a match.My team 2 TRs(1 choco) 2 GFs(1 me) 1 12k SW.Enemy team:2 Trs,1 DPS DC,i CW,1 GWF.
We lost 1000-960. I ended up 17-27 and the other Gf(19.8k gs) 7-21.Do you know the score of the enemy GWF?37-11.
That's **** right.
24+4k Savage Advance(4k the Knock).25 k Intimidation all the time.It critted the whole f...ing game.And what the hell,stuns that lasted for an atternity.
Come and get it BYPASSING 2 in 3 TIMES BLOCK.Come and get it pulling me me and the other GF ,except if we were exactly face to face with the GWF.
After we got stunned,block is non active for additional 0.3-.0.6 secs.
This is the GWf now.Master of bugs and easy build.Stop attacking GFs ,you have sceletons in your closet.(Come and get it).
And from judging from the GWf that faced yesterday,seeing him evading me all the time and not facetanking as the 99.99999999999% GWFs do(since mod2 the only thing they know) i would say to the rest of the GWFs .LEARN TO PLAY YOUR STILL OP CLASS.
I am referinng to Sentinels and not to destros.
Sentinels are pretty fine.
So you crit with your anvil eh?Great.cause the common GWFs crit THE WHOLE ****IIN TIME AND NOT ONCE IN 5 MINUTES AS GFS do.
So you have 30% crit chance with the capstone hah?GWFS HAVE 35-45% crit chance already availble every time.AND NOT WAITING 456576474 stacks to come in effect.
You have 37% deflect hah?GWFS Sents HAVE WITH BRAVERY AND MASTER AT ARMS SLOTTED 14%(!) deflect for free.
i could go on....But what's the point?The class that was abusing pvp in mod2,then we had the bugged t1 pvp set,then we had roar,then we had intimidation.
GWF the most glitched bugged exploit master of pvp ever.And the guy comes here in a thread about GFS and attack GFs.
Ok continue.And you ll see how many threads i will make about your come and get it bypassing block(it shouldn't) and your OP Savage advance and your op IBS and the crazy amount of AP you take.
Wall of text was blocked by my bugged, glitched Unstoppable so I didnt read. What I did do is give you a straight exposition on my two main toons and their capabilities. Nothing more I can do for you. You cant teach blind people to see cause sometimes they are not really blind, they just dont want to see. All thats left is to write you off as a person who cant play (or just trolls) and continue to own your toon everytime I meet you in PVP with my exploiter GWF.. But I'll also own you with my GF just fyi
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Cool, i think you dont play at bis lvl. Im 57k hp near bis (8-12 page). So i think you didnt notice 25k dots from tr going thrue shield (dont mentionig his other tools) or sun burst which is openner for oder clases to cc burst gfs (dont mentioning immortality). fighting GWFs is preaty even 1 mistake and u have big problem. Glifs of sw riping us for 1,3k 5 times in 1 sec or so. Hrs are titans in 1 vs 1, but with team play with cws our cc rotation can help cw to kill him.
We have more problems, but still we do better than in 2 mods back. Sill we do worse than 1 mod back due to buged mechanics.
Cool, i think you dont play at bis lvl. Im 57k hp near bis (8-12 page). So i think you didnt notice 25k dots from tr going thrue shield (dont mentionig his other tools) or sun burst which is openner for oder clases to cc burst gfs (dont mentioning immortality). fighting GWFs is preaty even 1 mistake and u have big problem. Glifs of sw riping us for 1,3k 5 times in 1 sec or so. Hrs are titans in 1 vs 1, but with team play with cws our cc rotation can help cw to kill him.
We have more problems, but still we do better than in 2 mods back. Sill we do worse than 1 mod back due to buged mechanics.
With the exception of the bugged shield ( same bug unstoppable and sprint have btw ) the issues you outline are not GF issues. They are broken mechanics that those other classes have. TRs are indeed insane lately, DCs indeed knock away anyone with total disregard of cc immunity. Those are boken mechanics that the devs need to address. A buff to a certain class is not the answer.
People need to understad we cant fight fire with fire. We all end up burned
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
So maybe look at first page and check which class has bigger representation. GF isnt easy kill and usualy waste of time (i have senti to). Fight is preaty even but i would bet on gwf.
So maybe look at first page and check which class has bigger representation. GF isnt easy kill and usualy waste of time (i have senti to). Fight is preaty even but i would on gwf.
Yep ive met steamroller on my gf...
wrong gwf man but it made me chuckle
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Well it's more than a bugged shield. The buggs I notice daily is:
Guard not activating right away(usually gets me CC'd -.-)
Guard just dropping for no reason
guard staying up perminantly BUT not blocking any dmg
CC going right through guard
Lunging strike and bull charge going into double animation and making me not able to block
Knights valor sometimes not activating right away
knights valor dropping even when i take no dmg
Griffons wrath losing charges for no reason
anvil of doom just completly not even regestering as a hit
Steel defence still dont work properly
Knights challenge not targeting people sometimes
Crescendo not hitting people but still going on cooldown
And I'm usre there is many more, there are just the ones I notice. And the one that really affects me the most up to the point of it causing me to lose fights is lunging strike and bull charge going on double animation and then not being able to block. I really am sick of that.
Well it's more than a bugged shield. The buggs I notice daily is:
Guard not activating right away(usually gets me CC'd -.-)
Guard just dropping for no reason
guard staying up perminantly BUT not blocking any dmg
CC going right through guard
Lunging strike and bull charge going into double animation and making me not able to block
Knights valor sometimes not activating right away
knights valor dropping even when i take no dmg
Griffons wrath losing charges for no reason
anvil of doom just completly not even regestering as a hit
Steel defence still dont work properly
Knights challenge not targeting people sometimes
Crescendo not hitting people but still going on cooldown
And I'm usre there is many more, there are just the ones I notice. And the one that really affects me the most up to the point of it causing me to lose fights is lunging strike and bull charge going on double animation and then not being able to block. I really am sick of that.
Sadly, all of the above is true. And similar lists can probably be made for every class. I know both fighters share alot of the listed issues
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Sadly, all of the above is true. And similar lists can probably be made for every class. I know both fighters share alot of the listed issues
Well that is my main issue bro, I know all classes have bugs but the one I mentioned that I hate most actually affects me in almost every fight and since I use them 2 powers 99% of the time I find it really annoying
I also made a bug post a while ago with a much bigger list but cant seem to find it or remember them all lol. Oh well, I really hope the main ones get fixed because some of them are much worse than an avarage occaisonal bug.
Well it's more than a bugged shield. The buggs I notice daily is:
Guard not activating right away(usually gets me CC'd -.-)
Guard just dropping for no reason
guard staying up perminantly BUT not blocking any dmg
CC going right through guard
Lunging strike and bull charge going into double animation and making me not able to block
Knights valor sometimes not activating right away
knights valor dropping even when i take no dmg
Griffons wrath losing charges for no reason
anvil of doom just completly not even regestering as a hit
Steel defence still dont work properly
Knights challenge not targeting people sometimes
Crescendo not hitting people but still going on cooldown
And I'm usre there is many more, there are just the ones I notice. And the one that really affects me the most up to the point of it causing me to lose fights is lunging strike and bull charge going on double animation and then not being able to block. I really am sick of that.
I have experienced every single one of these issues, and they are very anyoing specially number 1 and 2.
Both Unstoppable and Sprint have delays and activate a short time after you have told them to activate, for now we live with it. Somewhere above me a poster said the GF needs more base Crit, more Deflect and more ArmPen.. well, you people are really getting pathetic. Is this where we end up now, asking for class buffs because our builds lack a certain STAT ? If you want to play a class at the highest level then either grind your way to bis gear or whip out your credit card. GFs already are in a super good spot in PVP. My Conq easily sits at 53K HP and crits for 8-10K with an At-Will. With 20% crit from gear and the capstone I crit very often and my single target damage is much better than the single target of my GWF. My Conq also has almost 50% DR and currently 37% Deflect. SWs commit suicide when they attack me, perma rogues have zero chance to drive me off node, even hunter rangers fail to kill me with auto proc dots cause I regen like crazy.. Anything else ? Oh yea, my GF is not even at bis lvl yet. I have just 1 legendary item (my belt), I still use CN weapon set. If I decide to get Arti weapon set, 3 orange artifacts and a cloak I'll be freakin' indestructible as a Conqueror who can 1rotation squishies.
In contrast my almost bis GWF who has better gear ( currently 4 legendaries and the rest are on the way) than my GF is nowhere near as tough and has less single target damage. If my toons were to fight the GF would win every time.
You cant just come and ask for class buffs to cover for your poor builds.
Either your very bad on your GWF or your lying outright. I run conq build and while it can have decent burst "IF" you chain crits very unlikely btw. Outside of that its dmg is abysmal. At will dmg is terrible. To claim that you can out dmg a superior gear score GWF is laughable.
I am running 18k+ on my GF a equally geared GWF can sprint to me use intimidation from 15ft away never even touching me and take 80% of my life with one attack. I am at 51k life if you think a GF can get anywhere close to that with anywhere near the consistency of a GWF your a fool, or a liar trying to prevent the buffs that GF desperately needs.
GF - Sigh
0
wowowowowoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited November 2014
So you're saying the guy above is lying while also saying that a GWF can deal 40k dmg, no mark, no debuffs, on the class with the heavy armor and the most defense ...?
With 18k GS? Are you built full move speed or something?
Either your very bad on your GWF or your lying outright. I run conq build and while it can have decent burst "IF" you chain crits very unlikely btw. Outside of that its dmg is abysmal. At will dmg is terrible. To claim that you can out dmg a superior gear score GWF is laughable.
I am running 18k+ on my GF a equally geared GWF can sprint to me use intimidation from 15ft away never even touching me and take 80% of my life with one attack. I am at 51k life if you think a GF can get anywhere close to that with anywhere near the consistency of a GWF your a fool, or a liar trying to prevent the buffs that GF desperately needs.
Single Target damage on my Conq is higher than Single Target damage on my GWF who is a Sentinel. Do you need your hand held with comprehending sth else ?
I can even explain why.
1 - Conqs get good crit rate now
2 - GFs have stronger single target encounters and a stronger single target At-Will
3 - GFs have low cooldowns on those encounters ( 2 LS for the time of 1 IBS / 3-4 LS for the time of 1 DS )
4 - With proper offensive build ( 5-7k Power , 2500 ArmPen , PVorpal ) and buffs like ITF or KC my Conq's Single Target damage is superior to my GWF's. As a result my GF Conq is better for PVP than my Sentinel who is better for PVE dps but still cant tank as good as the GF.
Simple enough to understand yes?
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Look at his signature fellow GFs .before answering to the troll...he is a SW......not a GF...
Yes look at my sig - notice the 16k GF in there? Is she my main? No, but that doesnt mean I do not play her. As I said GFs do not need buffs in pve or pvp, owing to the fact GF's ( there is that better than you? ) just got a huge bunch of buff with mod 4. Bug fixes certainly, but overall gfs are in a good place as it is. Also - not a he
May the RNG Gods smile on you today!
Adorable Temptress - 23.4k Temptation SW
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
Single Target damage on my Conq is higher than Single Target damage on my GWF who is a Sentinel. Do you need your hand held with comprehending sth else ?
I can even explain why.
1 - Conqs get good crit rate now
2 - GFs have stronger single target encounters and a stronger single target At-Will
3 - GFs have low cooldowns on those encounters ( 2 LS for the time of 1 IBS / 3-4 LS for the time of 1 DS )
4 - With proper offensive build ( 5-7k Power , 2500 ArmPen , PVorpal ) and buffs like ITF or KC my Conq's Single Target damage is superior to my GWF's. As a result my GF Conq is better for PVP than my Sentinel who is better for PVE dps but still cant tank as good as the GF.
Simple enough to understand yes?
To pull of those stats you would be insanely squishy, a single daze from a rogue and you would melt before it was gone, I am much tankier and on only 51k and in 2 daze I am dead before I can do anything but get 1-2 at will of of more often then not whiff a encounter "bullscharge" praying for it to connect "it is dodged most the time".
That aside at best you running what 30% crit?, switch the build on you gwf to a pvp build and your dmg is not only better all of a sudden but a lot more consistent as well with a much higher crit rate. You would also have a much better deflect and be much tankier than a conq pushing such crit and also still avoid a lot more CC with unstoppable. It is like playing a CW with horrible crit and less regen, that has to be in the mix eating aoe to do any dmg at all.
Single Target damage on my Conq is higher than Single Target damage on my GWF who is a Sentinel. Do you need your hand held with comprehending sth else ?
I can even explain why.
1 - Conqs get good crit rate now
2 - GFs have stronger single target encounters and a stronger single target At-Will
3 - GFs have low cooldowns on those encounters ( 2 LS for the time of 1 IBS / 3-4 LS for the time of 1 DS )
4 - With proper offensive build ( 5-7k Power , 2500 ArmPen , PVorpal ) and buffs like ITF or KC my Conq's Single Target damage is superior to my GWF's. As a result my GF Conq is better for PVP than my Sentinel who is better for PVE dps but still cant tank as good as the GF.
Simple enough to understand yes?
Okay, I think I will chime back in. I run a protector. In Bis gear, can't get anymore tanky, can't do anymore reflect, gets around 50% deflection in pvp, 62k hp, 6 greater tene's, 7 after offhand, he is not easy to kill. But - he is a buff bot. I spam into the fray, and I bull charge the DC after a GWF does come and get it to proc capstone, he then does intimidating shout (can hit for up 50k on full tenacity with ITF), he then dailies them after they soul forge. Stuff like that. I reduce all incoming damage to my party around me by 62.5% before their DR kicks in to take the rest.. and I give them over a 120% damage buff. Yeah it's fun but no it is not THAT fun.
1. Conq's do not get a good crit rate. Show me a conq with over 35% crit who hasn't sacrificed so much that he dies in 1 shot? Show me a conq with over a 35% crit who is not actually getting less damage because his power is not that high. You won't.
2. GF's at-wills are stronger, but it is a dumb comparison because GWF's in unstoppable do more at-will damage, and since they are faster are able to apply things like plague fire indefinitely AS WELL as use red glyphs so..... actually, a GWF with red glyphs will do more single target at will damage when you include unstoppable, otherwise it is just a bad comparison. Single target encounter powers? EVERY gwf who has a clue is running sent with intimidation. He can 30-50k AOE with two different encounters and hit for 30-40k with indomitable STR lol... He doesn't NEED single target. My glass cannon PTR GF with 8k power can do more single target than an instigator with 12-14k power, but the odds that it would ever be reached by someone on live, and have any use are small to none. So that point is just completely wrong lol unless you only look at it from one side.
3. GF's do have low cooldowns, BUT they are all single target, GWF's can come and get it and daring shout and it's GG. Throw a GF in there marking, ITF'ing, tide of iron, it's definitely GG. So we have around a 30% crit range MAX usually with capstone, lunging strike on someone in full tenacity will crit for like 10-15k because most GF's sacrifice way too much power for crit because it sucks. But, you usually won't crit, and deal like 5-7k. Which with the amount of self healing and what not from every class besides a GWF basically, that number won't matter. The reason a GWF instigator is BETTER than a conq is it can BURST, an intimidation can burst, GF's damage isn't burst anymore. Everyone has 40-50k hp not including GF's, our little hits don't really matter. Oh but GF's have KC, you know what, do a premade and run KC for a while lol, you will get blown up. I've never had a GF successfully land a KC on me in pvp because it is so easily dodged.
4. Your 5-7k power GF with that armor pen will not get his crit up. Sure he may be able to 1v1 a GWF. But lets say your team has a GWF + GF and your gf is conq. Then the other team has a GF + GWF and that GWF is sentinel with intimidation. The conq will lose EVERY time. In fact, the protector can just stand off the node, mitigate all damage, run SOS and let the GWF and GF kill themselves while the other GWF waits to come and get it and daring shout both of them for their entire HP bars.
- In closing. I get it. GF's want to play conq. I have as much gear and as well put together protector GF as anyone on the server, because you can't get anymore gear/enchants/better build than I have for a protector lol. And I will tell you it is a ***** to kill. I can take a beating. I also realize that I can tank certain situations better than a DC just because I have a shield, but in the end, the DC side will win because GF's get little to no life back through regen, and our feats to gain hp are just garbage. Conq's are great to pug stomp. Before I stopped playing my GF I was on page one, had like 78 wins, 4 losses. Every loss was against a Bis premade, and none of them had a conq. And I promise any conq that my team went up against was made to look like a fool because he didn't cut it in DPS, he couldn't cut it in tanking, and I made everyone on my team deal 120% more damage and mitigated 60%+ of your damage before their DR kicked in.
Right now, there is literally no comparison between a protector and conq. And there isn't a comparison between a sentinel running intimidating and any GF or GWF (instigator). Those are the facts. If you guys don't like them I'm sorry. But I have done every GF build and 1v1'd the best of the best in every class and a conq just doesn't cut it. My protector on the other hand does a MUCH better job 1v1, especially when most 1v1's as a GF involve you staying alive until help can arrive. The difference, I make my help clear QUICK and stay alive for a long long time.
- But that is just my opinion. Take it or leave it. If I hadn't spent 20 mil AD on my GF this mod that I'd been saving up for God knows how long, I might have went Conq and enjoyed the pug stomping. But it is my curse to want to play with the best, and for now, the conq/instigator don't fit the part. If you are a conq/instigator rather than protector/sentinel(intimidation) - then you are hurting your team and will lose against a team of equal skill/gear and even slightly less.
Feels kinda like mod 3 all over again, except we can be a really annoying meat shield now a lot more than we used to be lol.
But it is my curse to want to play with the best, and for now, the conq/instigator don't fit the part. If you are a conq/instigator rather than protector/sentinel(intimidation) - then you are hurting your team and will lose against a team of equal skill/gear and even slightly less.
And if you are specifically choosing your build/class every mod 'cause you have a medical need to win vs the "the best" then you are not playing this game - the game is playing you. And this is my opinion. Also for the record I dont view premades as "the best", far from it. A premade creates a situation with as close to 'perfect conditions' as possible in this game. Every member contributes but every member is also being assisted thruout the match and while it certainly wins matches its far away from fun far as im concerned. A premade simply exploits all the current, out-of-balance, classes/abilities/gear. Lower level PVP right now is a perfect example. You see 4 lowbie rogues with epic gear grouped with a DC reaping anything they come in contact with. Fun? Bull**** more likely.
On topic, I stated that a Conq GF is actually stronger than Int Sent in single target damage and will win a scuffle vs a GWF 8 times out of 10. This still stands. I draw this conclusion from my own experience with my own two fighters and at the end of the day it is all that matters.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Single Target damage on my Conq is higher than Single Target damage on my GWF who is a Sentinel. Do you need your hand held with comprehending sth else ?
...
2 - GFs have stronger single target encounters and a stronger single target At-Will
GF at wills are most crapiest in game atm (DC have left fail class league) and any weapon including artefact ones are hit as hard as blue gear for lvl 55-60 GWF. Cleave does very low damage, Crashing Surge gives better damage but its full potential visible rather on dummies with marks/KC/debufs than in reality. In many situations GF relies on encounter damage, GF rarely has a chance to do more than 3-4 hits with CS in row, it is very slow at-will.
I never surprised by my regular 30-60k with timed Anvil on debuffed pve target, but GF doesn't have much anything else, Flourish GF version and maybe KC/KB combo but it is very specific. Rest of encounters even if does some damage their main purpose is utility (cc, movement).
It is nothing compared to what i can do on my GWF - 13k destroyer with R5. I can have same 40k with timed IBS, its sword is Thyan one, while my main 17k GF has its useless artefact wep.
And if you are specifically choosing your build/class every mod 'cause you have a medical need to win vs the "the best" then you are not playing this game - the game is playing you. And this is my opinion. Also for the record I dont view premades as "the best", far from it. A premade creates a situation with as close to 'perfect conditions' as possible in this game. Every member contributes but every member is also being assisted thruout the match and while it certainly wins matches its far away from fun far as im concerned. A premade simply exploits all the current, out-of-balance, classes/abilities/gear. Lower level PVP right now is a perfect example. You see 4 lowbie rogues with epic gear grouped with a DC reaping anything they come in contact with. Fun? Bull**** more likely.
On topic, I stated that a Conq GF is actually stronger than Int Sent in single target damage and will win a scuffle vs a GWF 8 times out of 10. This still stands. I draw this conclusion from my own experience with my own two fighters and at the end of the day it is all that matters.
You do realize a premade usually means a rainbow right? To avoid the imbalances of the game? Have you ever thought about not fighting pugs and organizing a game? I don't know what 10 sentinels you have been fighting but that is not the norm.
Regardless. GF's were left out this mod. We even had our advocate leave because of it. If you want to have the most fun, a conq is the way to go. Stack power, use the corrupt set so you can slot a little more crit and you'll get by in damage, but your team will never be as good as it could have been since you doing a little more damage will never be as good as them doing 120% more damage lol.
- I do not let the game play me, but to be the best you have to beat the best. Show me a conq run a 5v5 Bis premade and do well, and I'll say I apologize. But as far as I know Godmode is the best conq out there, and he even admits his character does no good in premades. Think your conq is better, 1v1 him lol, you will lose.
Comments
Enough with increasing damage. At this rate of buffs n' HAMSTER classes will be 1-shotting things with at-wills in PVE and turn PVP into a SUDDEN DEATH mode.
Also, lets keep this real before someone trys to pull the Knights challenge Anvil card. We can only do that if they are already under 40% with a crit and it takes two Encounters and can be easily avoided or even kill you for trying it. It also is impossible in end game gear on an opponent also in end game gear.
Gf has to play with wise gamepley to hit somebody.Yet the ranged classes just pew pew with at wills.
Another,a SW ate my half Hp pool while i was blocking him head on.he was the new paragon i think.cause i saw some strange pet in pvp,different than the previous ones.
Generally tenacity need to be increased in every set,existant and future ,by 25-30%.
And GF tenacity more.otherwise with all these ranges dps and dots,we do not stand a chance.We are getting slaugheterd by inferior players by inferior gear.Just our class in current NW meta (dots,long ranges ,glyphs) sucks.
One CW build got a mini mini nerf, the other specs got entire overhauls.
Almost every CW skill had its already-fast cast times further shortened.
You're crying about what, exactly?
What nerfs?
Not still assailant, I hope.
It's far worse for GWF. At least you still have your shield block.
"Shield block" eh? You mean our Guard that is bugged so that it randomly lowers so you take unblocked damage? The Guard that also has a 'delay' after it is raised where it doesn't block damage? The Guard that allows some abilities and Powers to by-pass it? The Guard where some types of damage that are blocked actually deal more damage than if it wasn't Blocked at all? The Guard that 'blocks' damage but in fact only mitigates it by 80%?
Yes. We have a shield that is supposed to function to 'block' out damage but instead is subjected to numerous bugs and mechanics that actually make the entire system often unexpectedly unwieldy.
Both Unstoppable and Sprint have delays and activate a short time after you have told them to activate, for now we live with it. Somewhere above me a poster said the GF needs more base Crit, more Deflect and more ArmPen.. well, you people are really getting pathetic. Is this where we end up now, asking for class buffs because our builds lack a certain STAT ? If you want to play a class at the highest level then either grind your way to bis gear or whip out your credit card. GFs already are in a super good spot in PVP. My Conq easily sits at 53K HP and crits for 8-10K with an At-Will. With 20% crit from gear and the capstone I crit very often and my single target damage is much better than the single target of my GWF. My Conq also has almost 50% DR and currently 37% Deflect. SWs commit suicide when they attack me, perma rogues have zero chance to drive me off node, even hunter rangers fail to kill me with auto proc dots cause I regen like crazy.. Anything else ? Oh yea, my GF is not even at bis lvl yet. I have just 1 legendary item (my belt), I still use CN weapon set. If I decide to get Arti weapon set, 3 orange artifacts and a cloak I'll be freakin' indestructible as a Conqueror who can 1rotation squishies.
In contrast my almost bis GWF who has better gear ( currently 4 legendaries and the rest are on the way) than my GF is nowhere near as tough and has less single target damage. If my toons were to fight the GF would win every time.
You cant just come and ask for class buffs to cover for your poor builds.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
^^^
emilemo,as you see none GF wants confrontation with GWFs,but you keep attacking us and say lies and HAMSTER during your attacks.
if your Gf is so super play your **** GF then.But since you are pro GWF and attack GF ,the logical thing is that you exagerate.
Last night i played a match.My team 2 TRs(1 choco) 2 GFs(1 me) 1 12k SW.Enemy team:2 Trs,1 DPS DC,i CW,1 GWF.
We lost 1000-960. I ended up 17-27 and the other Gf(19.8k gs) 7-21.Do you know the score of the enemy GWF?37-11.
That's **** right.
24+4k Savage Advance(4k the Knock).25 k Intimidation all the time.It critted the whole f...ing game.And what the hell,stuns that lasted for an atternity.
Come and get it BYPASSING 2 in 3 TIMES BLOCK.Come and get it pulling me me and the other GF ,except if we were exactly face to face with the GWF.
After we got stunned,block is non active for additional 0.3-.0.6 secs.
This is the GWf now.Master of bugs and easy build.Stop attacking GFs ,you have sceletons in your closet.(Come and get it).
And from judging from the GWf that faced yesterday,seeing him evading me all the time and not facetanking as the 99.99999999999% GWFs do(since mod2 the only thing they know) i would say to the rest of the GWFs .LEARN TO PLAY YOUR STILL OP CLASS.
I am referinng to Sentinels and not to destros.
Sentinels are pretty fine.
So you crit with your anvil eh?Great.cause the common GWFs crit THE WHOLE ****IIN TIME AND NOT ONCE IN 5 MINUTES AS GFS do.
So you have 30% crit chance with the capstone hah?GWFS HAVE 35-45% crit chance already availble every time.AND NOT WAITING 456576474 stacks to come in effect.
You have 37% deflect hah?GWFS Sents HAVE WITH BRAVERY AND MASTER AT ARMS SLOTTED 14%(!) deflect for free.
i could go on....But what's the point?The class that was abusing pvp in mod2,then we had the bugged t1 pvp set,then we had roar,then we had intimidation.
GWF the most glitched bugged exploit master of pvp ever.And the guy comes here in a thread about GFS and attack GFs.
Ok continue.And you ll see how many threads i will make about your come and get it bypassing block(it shouldn't) and your OP Savage advance and your op IBS and the crazy amount of AP you take.
Wall of text was blocked by my bugged, glitched Unstoppable so I didnt read. What I did do is give you a straight exposition on my two main toons and their capabilities. Nothing more I can do for you. You cant teach blind people to see cause sometimes they are not really blind, they just dont want to see. All thats left is to write you off as a person who cant play (or just trolls) and continue to own your toon everytime I meet you in PVP with my exploiter GWF.. But I'll also own you with my GF just fyi
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
We have more problems, but still we do better than in 2 mods back. Sill we do worse than 1 mod back due to buged mechanics.
Steel and Magic
With the exception of the bugged shield ( same bug unstoppable and sprint have btw ) the issues you outline are not GF issues. They are broken mechanics that those other classes have. TRs are indeed insane lately, DCs indeed knock away anyone with total disregard of cc immunity. Those are boken mechanics that the devs need to address. A buff to a certain class is not the answer.
People need to understad we cant fight fire with fire. We all end up burned
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Steel and Magic
And I have a page 5 Sentinel in guild who tells me just the opposite. So yeah, opinions, they say are like a$$h@les everyone has one
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Yep ive met steamroller on my gf...
Steel and Magic
wrong gwf man but it made me chuckle
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Guard not activating right away(usually gets me CC'd -.-)
Guard just dropping for no reason
guard staying up perminantly BUT not blocking any dmg
CC going right through guard
Lunging strike and bull charge going into double animation and making me not able to block
Knights valor sometimes not activating right away
knights valor dropping even when i take no dmg
Griffons wrath losing charges for no reason
anvil of doom just completly not even regestering as a hit
Steel defence still dont work properly
Knights challenge not targeting people sometimes
Crescendo not hitting people but still going on cooldown
And I'm usre there is many more, there are just the ones I notice. And the one that really affects me the most up to the point of it causing me to lose fights is lunging strike and bull charge going on double animation and then not being able to block. I really am sick of that.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sadly, all of the above is true. And similar lists can probably be made for every class. I know both fighters share alot of the listed issues
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Well that is my main issue bro, I know all classes have bugs but the one I mentioned that I hate most actually affects me in almost every fight and since I use them 2 powers 99% of the time I find it really annoying
I also made a bug post a while ago with a much bigger list but cant seem to find it or remember them all lol. Oh well, I really hope the main ones get fixed because some of them are much worse than an avarage occaisonal bug.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have experienced every single one of these issues, and they are very anyoing specially number 1 and 2.
Either your very bad on your GWF or your lying outright. I run conq build and while it can have decent burst "IF" you chain crits very unlikely btw. Outside of that its dmg is abysmal. At will dmg is terrible. To claim that you can out dmg a superior gear score GWF is laughable.
I am running 18k+ on my GF a equally geared GWF can sprint to me use intimidation from 15ft away never even touching me and take 80% of my life with one attack. I am at 51k life if you think a GF can get anywhere close to that with anywhere near the consistency of a GWF your a fool, or a liar trying to prevent the buffs that GF desperately needs.
With 18k GS? Are you built full move speed or something?
Single Target damage on my Conq is higher than Single Target damage on my GWF who is a Sentinel. Do you need your hand held with comprehending sth else ?
I can even explain why.
1 - Conqs get good crit rate now
2 - GFs have stronger single target encounters and a stronger single target At-Will
3 - GFs have low cooldowns on those encounters ( 2 LS for the time of 1 IBS / 3-4 LS for the time of 1 DS )
4 - With proper offensive build ( 5-7k Power , 2500 ArmPen , PVorpal ) and buffs like ITF or KC my Conq's Single Target damage is superior to my GWF's. As a result my GF Conq is better for PVP than my Sentinel who is better for PVE dps but still cant tank as good as the GF.
Simple enough to understand yes?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Yes look at my sig - notice the 16k GF in there? Is she my main? No, but that doesnt mean I do not play her. As I said GFs do not need buffs in pve or pvp, owing to the fact GF's ( there is that better than you? ) just got a huge bunch of buff with mod 4. Bug fixes certainly, but overall gfs are in a good place as it is. Also - not a he
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
To pull of those stats you would be insanely squishy, a single daze from a rogue and you would melt before it was gone, I am much tankier and on only 51k and in 2 daze I am dead before I can do anything but get 1-2 at will of of more often then not whiff a encounter "bullscharge" praying for it to connect "it is dodged most the time".
That aside at best you running what 30% crit?, switch the build on you gwf to a pvp build and your dmg is not only better all of a sudden but a lot more consistent as well with a much higher crit rate. You would also have a much better deflect and be much tankier than a conq pushing such crit and also still avoid a lot more CC with unstoppable. It is like playing a CW with horrible crit and less regen, that has to be in the mix eating aoe to do any dmg at all.
Okay, I think I will chime back in. I run a protector. In Bis gear, can't get anymore tanky, can't do anymore reflect, gets around 50% deflection in pvp, 62k hp, 6 greater tene's, 7 after offhand, he is not easy to kill. But - he is a buff bot. I spam into the fray, and I bull charge the DC after a GWF does come and get it to proc capstone, he then does intimidating shout (can hit for up 50k on full tenacity with ITF), he then dailies them after they soul forge. Stuff like that. I reduce all incoming damage to my party around me by 62.5% before their DR kicks in to take the rest.. and I give them over a 120% damage buff. Yeah it's fun but no it is not THAT fun.
1. Conq's do not get a good crit rate. Show me a conq with over 35% crit who hasn't sacrificed so much that he dies in 1 shot? Show me a conq with over a 35% crit who is not actually getting less damage because his power is not that high. You won't.
2. GF's at-wills are stronger, but it is a dumb comparison because GWF's in unstoppable do more at-will damage, and since they are faster are able to apply things like plague fire indefinitely AS WELL as use red glyphs so..... actually, a GWF with red glyphs will do more single target at will damage when you include unstoppable, otherwise it is just a bad comparison. Single target encounter powers? EVERY gwf who has a clue is running sent with intimidation. He can 30-50k AOE with two different encounters and hit for 30-40k with indomitable STR lol... He doesn't NEED single target. My glass cannon PTR GF with 8k power can do more single target than an instigator with 12-14k power, but the odds that it would ever be reached by someone on live, and have any use are small to none. So that point is just completely wrong lol unless you only look at it from one side.
3. GF's do have low cooldowns, BUT they are all single target, GWF's can come and get it and daring shout and it's GG. Throw a GF in there marking, ITF'ing, tide of iron, it's definitely GG. So we have around a 30% crit range MAX usually with capstone, lunging strike on someone in full tenacity will crit for like 10-15k because most GF's sacrifice way too much power for crit because it sucks. But, you usually won't crit, and deal like 5-7k. Which with the amount of self healing and what not from every class besides a GWF basically, that number won't matter. The reason a GWF instigator is BETTER than a conq is it can BURST, an intimidation can burst, GF's damage isn't burst anymore. Everyone has 40-50k hp not including GF's, our little hits don't really matter. Oh but GF's have KC, you know what, do a premade and run KC for a while lol, you will get blown up. I've never had a GF successfully land a KC on me in pvp because it is so easily dodged.
4. Your 5-7k power GF with that armor pen will not get his crit up. Sure he may be able to 1v1 a GWF. But lets say your team has a GWF + GF and your gf is conq. Then the other team has a GF + GWF and that GWF is sentinel with intimidation. The conq will lose EVERY time. In fact, the protector can just stand off the node, mitigate all damage, run SOS and let the GWF and GF kill themselves while the other GWF waits to come and get it and daring shout both of them for their entire HP bars.
- In closing. I get it. GF's want to play conq. I have as much gear and as well put together protector GF as anyone on the server, because you can't get anymore gear/enchants/better build than I have for a protector lol. And I will tell you it is a ***** to kill. I can take a beating. I also realize that I can tank certain situations better than a DC just because I have a shield, but in the end, the DC side will win because GF's get little to no life back through regen, and our feats to gain hp are just garbage. Conq's are great to pug stomp. Before I stopped playing my GF I was on page one, had like 78 wins, 4 losses. Every loss was against a Bis premade, and none of them had a conq. And I promise any conq that my team went up against was made to look like a fool because he didn't cut it in DPS, he couldn't cut it in tanking, and I made everyone on my team deal 120% more damage and mitigated 60%+ of your damage before their DR kicked in.
Right now, there is literally no comparison between a protector and conq. And there isn't a comparison between a sentinel running intimidating and any GF or GWF (instigator). Those are the facts. If you guys don't like them I'm sorry. But I have done every GF build and 1v1'd the best of the best in every class and a conq just doesn't cut it. My protector on the other hand does a MUCH better job 1v1, especially when most 1v1's as a GF involve you staying alive until help can arrive. The difference, I make my help clear QUICK and stay alive for a long long time.
- But that is just my opinion. Take it or leave it. If I hadn't spent 20 mil AD on my GF this mod that I'd been saving up for God knows how long, I might have went Conq and enjoyed the pug stomping. But it is my curse to want to play with the best, and for now, the conq/instigator don't fit the part. If you are a conq/instigator rather than protector/sentinel(intimidation) - then you are hurting your team and will lose against a team of equal skill/gear and even slightly less.
Feels kinda like mod 3 all over again, except we can be a really annoying meat shield now a lot more than we used to be lol.
And if you are specifically choosing your build/class every mod 'cause you have a medical need to win vs the "the best" then you are not playing this game - the game is playing you. And this is my opinion. Also for the record I dont view premades as "the best", far from it. A premade creates a situation with as close to 'perfect conditions' as possible in this game. Every member contributes but every member is also being assisted thruout the match and while it certainly wins matches its far away from fun far as im concerned. A premade simply exploits all the current, out-of-balance, classes/abilities/gear. Lower level PVP right now is a perfect example. You see 4 lowbie rogues with epic gear grouped with a DC reaping anything they come in contact with. Fun? Bull**** more likely.
On topic, I stated that a Conq GF is actually stronger than Int Sent in single target damage and will win a scuffle vs a GWF 8 times out of 10. This still stands. I draw this conclusion from my own experience with my own two fighters and at the end of the day it is all that matters.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I never surprised by my regular 30-60k with timed Anvil on debuffed pve target, but GF doesn't have much anything else, Flourish GF version and maybe KC/KB combo but it is very specific. Rest of encounters even if does some damage their main purpose is utility (cc, movement).
It is nothing compared to what i can do on my GWF - 13k destroyer with R5. I can have same 40k with timed IBS, its sword is Thyan one, while my main 17k GF has its useless artefact wep.
— (The unwritten rule)
You do realize a premade usually means a rainbow right? To avoid the imbalances of the game? Have you ever thought about not fighting pugs and organizing a game? I don't know what 10 sentinels you have been fighting but that is not the norm.
Regardless. GF's were left out this mod. We even had our advocate leave because of it. If you want to have the most fun, a conq is the way to go. Stack power, use the corrupt set so you can slot a little more crit and you'll get by in damage, but your team will never be as good as it could have been since you doing a little more damage will never be as good as them doing 120% more damage lol.
- I do not let the game play me, but to be the best you have to beat the best. Show me a conq run a 5v5 Bis premade and do well, and I'll say I apologize. But as far as I know Godmode is the best conq out there, and he even admits his character does no good in premades. Think your conq is better, 1v1 him lol, you will lose.
- Oh well, onto mod 6-7-8 for more buff-nerfs